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HELP: Need To Find 32" HDTV With Least Amount Of Input Lag As Possible - Page 2

post #31 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by nintygaming View Post

I know I'm about to sound crazy, but there's just no way I would accept more than 1 frame of delay. 2011-earlier Panny's are my ticket. Besides, there was an individual who tested the Samsung UN32EH5000 to have 2-3 frames on average (not sure which mode, but its posted on here if you search).
When you have to watch and wait for Mr. Dream (NES Punch-Out) to flash so that you can time your dodge to avoid getting knocked out by his nasty uppercuts, I can guarantee you that 2 frames of lag will put Little Mac on his butt. Paying for a TV that cannot keep up with speed runs of old-school games (and modern motion games like Skyward Sword) is not merely a waste of money, but a technological failure all together.......that is unless you only watch movies and play casually.

good luck then, a LG or Panasonic with an IPS panel is probably what your looking for (I think my LG LK450 with the S-IPS panel has 1-2 frames of input lag)
post #32 of 39
@Nintygaming.

The golden age of gaming pretty much ending with the SNES...Actually, for me it ended in early 94' BUT, the Wii has brang some of that magic back with it's new exciting motion controls,
the retro rivival(Mega man 9 and Castlevania ReBirth ect) and the the glorious Wii Virtual console. And man, Wario Land Shake it! imo is one of the most amazing and revolutionary side scrollers in platformer history. Those tilt controls were absolutely amazing for the time.(When motion controls
were completely new to the industry, where as now it's all taken for granted) The first time i faced off against the 2nd Boss(Hotrod fredrick? Can't remember his name) where you're controlling Wario's Wheelie cart with the boxing glove put an enormous smile on my face. Never had i had so much fun in ages playing a game. And thanks to those tilt controls it made the experience far more intuitive and fun. The UFO jet rocket was another fantastic demonstration of tilt controls, as was the submarine stages ect. And shaking the wii remote to get coins out of the money bags felt far more fun and 'made sense' in comparison to tapping a button like you would normally.

Personally, i feel that WLSI completely anihilates NSMB Wii in everyway imaginable. NSMB Wii with it's playing it safe' with it's extremely minimal plastic looking graphics and samo locations kind of put me off.
At the core, the game played fantastic and the stage design from a gameplay standpoint were fantastic, but the visual asthetics and weak sauce challenge(the amount of 1-ups and even power ups that you'd get was absurd, which defeated the purpose of collecting coins
and going to the mushroom houses) kind of derailed me from the experience. It was a dissapointment after coming from Wario Land Shake it!, the unforgettable-surreal 'Klonoa' and the funkyAwesome-bizzare
Super Paper Mario.

Anyways, Wii rambling aside. Well that sucks, i was actually set on getting a 32" E5 Panasonic LED earlier next year once it dropped in price. but what's the point if it's pushing 2-3 frames....
If i had to, i'd just get a 32" LK450, or possibly this years LG 60hz 1080p LCD to get that 1 frame through component.

NOW, if i HAD to go for a smaller sized screen, it being a 27-32" i honestly don't know if i could even go LCD/LED if I had an HD CRT as option, but the extra bulk may be a bit of a problem. I think LCD/LED's are absolutely phenomenal for certain types of games, games that run slower like Super Mario galaxy, Klonoa, Kirby's Epic Yarn ect....The insane brightness levels that the LK450 can reach make these games pop and looking flat out magical. But because of the motion resolution smearing games like Metroid Prime 3, RE4: Wii Edition, anything in the 3rd or first person perspective were a nightmare(maybe i'm exagerating a little...nah. XP) to play. I then went back to my CRT and MetroidPrime looked and performed like a DREAM. The Black levels gave the image more depth and most importantly the motion handeling was 'perfect' We shouldn't have to deal with any
sort of motion blur issues, it's unrealistic and can be extremely distracting depending on the genre. Anyways, I have zero experience with these so called ALPHA IPS panels and if they can deliver less blur over a VA Panel.
Now if you don't mind motion blur and just 'ok' black levels, than you'll absolutely love the LK450. tongue.gif
Seems like one of the few lingering around that has that precious 1 frame that you're seeking.

Here's an idea, why not score a 32" LK450 AND a 27-34" HD CRT? I'm sure they're both cheap anyways, especially the CRT.
Use the CRT for movies(because trust me you wont want to watch movies on the LK450) Wii/Wii U first and 3rd person based titles,
retro/VC gaming and use the Wii U for everything else. :P
Edited by WaveBoy - 10/9/12 at 9:06pm
post #33 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by nintygaming View Post

HERE'S SOMETHING you may find interesting WaveBoy
The 2012 model LCD Panasonics apparently no longer have "Alpha" IPS panels. Instead, they have cheaper plain old "IPS" panels, but not "Alpha".

Your right in the description for the 2012 L32x5 it just says "IPS LED Panel" same for the Costco version model TC-32LC54.


Whats the old saying, day late and a dollar
short . If only the 2011 model was still around.

edit: just read about the 2011 Panasonic alpha panel model TV-L32C3.

http://www.televisioninfo.com/content/Panasonic-TC-L32C3-LED-LCD-HDTV-Review/Motion.htm

Under the Resolution Scaling section of the review

" 720p Normally we wouldn’t bother talking about a television’s native resolution, but 720p was not easy for this TV. Almost every one
of the high frequency patterns we put up
were banded together instead of intricately
differentiated. To demonstrate, a tightly
striped shirt will appear as a hazy mass of
thick lines on this screen, especially at
720p. "

Sounds like a mess, if a 720p tv can't even do 720p. Alpha panel or not maybe Panasonic should just stick to plasma.

edit2: The 2011 3d ready Panasonic lcd model TX-L37DT30B

From http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-tx-l37dt30b-l37dt30-201107201304.htm
p
" Console gaming was a tiny bit sluggish on
the TX-L37DT30B, but we still found it to be
quite usable for gaming. For example, in
Halo: Reach, the slightly delayed reaction
(which we clocked at around 31ms) made it
feel a little more like we were “steering” our
character than directly controlling them."

31ms are you freakin kidding me!

What 2011 Panasonic "alpha panel" lcd should I be looking at for low lag gaming?

from a chart these are the models that were in 32" size with a alpha panel last year.

DT30, U3 are 1080p and C3, X30 are 720p
Edited by uuddlrlrbass - 10/10/12 at 1:26am
post #34 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uuddlrlrbass View Post

Your right in the description for the 2012 L32x5 it just says "IPS LED Panel" same for the Costco version model TC-32LC54.
Whats the old saying, day late and a dollar
short . If only the 2011 model was still around.
edit: just read about the 2011 Panasonic alpha panel model TV-L32C3.
http://www.televisioninfo.com/content/Panasonic-TC-L32C3-LED-LCD-HDTV-Review/Motion.htm
Under the Resolution Scaling section of the review
" 720p Normally we wouldn’t bother talking about a television’s native resolution, but 720p was not easy for this TV. Almost every one
of the high frequency patterns we put up
were banded together instead of intricately
differentiated. To demonstrate, a tightly
striped shirt will appear as a hazy mass of
thick lines on this screen, especially at
720p. "
Sounds like a mess, if a 720p tv can't even do 720p. Alpha panel or not maybe Panasonic should just stick to plasma.
edit2: The 2011 3d ready Panasonic lcd model TX-L37DT30B
From http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-tx-l37dt30b-l37dt30-201107201304.htm
p
" Console gaming was a tiny bit sluggish on
the TX-L37DT30B, but we still found it to be
quite usable for gaming. For example, in
Halo: Reach, the slightly delayed reaction
(which we clocked at around 31ms) made it
feel a little more like we were “steering” our
character than directly controlling them."
31ms are you freakin kidding me!
What 2011 Panasonic "alpha panel" lcd should I be looking at for low lag gaming?
from a chart these are the models that were in 32" size with a alpha panel last year.

DT30, U3 are 1080p and C3, X30 are 720p

Your right. I dug a little deeper, and discovered that many of the "so-called" Alpha versions of 2011 apparently had a panel lottery, and many were, apparently not actually "Alpha". For example, the review below stated that the TX-L32E3B (same as US TC-L32E3) has 10ms of input lag.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/panasonic-viera-tx-l32e3b_TV_review_more-mostly-good-picture-news_Page-3

Maybe Panasonic will bring back their Alpha versions in 2013? Have to wait and see. If you want the TC-L32E3, its on eBay brand new for $859.95.....wow!
post #35 of 39
Lol at nintygaming for the mr dream/tyson punchout remark. I remember when I was a kid it took me some time to beat the bastard, but prevailed at the end. Now after 20 years I tried to beat the game again on the wii's virtual console, and got destroyed by mr sandman, even though I saw his movement hints. I thought I got rusty in games in general, but then I learned about input lag ... and was relieved AND dissapointed.
I came to this site close to 3 years ago and decided to buy a panasonic 32" l32x1 ips alpha tv. I found 2 or 3 on ebay used, got lucky and got one for $320. Input lag is THE BEST, but when playing other games that arent competitive its not as good. Also for movies I wouldnt recommend it because of its poor brightness.
Today I was thinking in getting a 40" tv or bigger for the upcoming black friday sale, and thats why I decided to check avs forums again, to see what recommendations they have for this 2012. After seeing all the feedback I think Im gonna keep my l32x1 STRICTLY for competitive gaming like when you play Call of Duty games, fighting games like street fighter or tekken, Fifa ones, etc ...
PC monitors are the way to go, along with smaller inch hdtvs (~32") when talking about input lag.
post #36 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by k4ever View Post

Lol at nintygaming for the mr dream/tyson punchout remark. I remember when I was a kid it took me some time to beat the bastard, but prevailed at the end. Now after 20 years I tried to beat the game again on the wii's virtual console, and got destroyed by mr sandman, even though I saw his movement hints. I thought I got rusty in games in general, but then I learned about input lag ... and was relieved AND dissapointed.
I came to this site close to 3 years ago and decided to buy a panasonic 32" l32x1 ips alpha tv. I found 2 or 3 on ebay used, got lucky and got one for $320. Input lag is THE BEST, but when playing other games that arent competitive its not as good. Also for movies I wouldnt recommend it because of its poor brightness.
Today I was thinking in getting a 40" tv or bigger for the upcoming black friday sale, and thats why I decided to check avs forums again, to see what recommendations they have for this 2012. After seeing all the feedback I think Im gonna keep my l32x1 STRICTLY for competitive gaming like when you play Call of Duty games, fighting games like street fighter or tekken, Fifa ones, etc ...
PC monitors are the way to go, along with smaller inch hdtvs (~32") when talking about input lag.

A week or so ago I found (and purchased) a new TC-L32X1 on eBay. And like you said, it is THE BEST with input lag. Even in 480i there is virtually no lag to speak of (played some Gamecube games via component on 480i without progressive scan, and lag was impossible to notice). This HDTV has been found to perform roughly 1.8 ms of lag at best, and 9ms of lag at worst, both tested with HDMI on this site and shoryuken.com. Component is even lower. I've tested numerous old-school games and the lag is next to none. I cannot detect any. My ears are really sensitive, so the method I use is the following: I close my eyes, and hold my ear to the controller, and listen to the sound of the button being pressed along with the sound of Mario jumping or shooting a fireball, and they are "virtually" in perfect sync. This same method was used on my dad's Plasma and the sync was off quite a bit, but not on this 32" LCD.

Keep in mind though that while this TV advertised a "Game Mode", its not truly what you think. Its just another picture mode. So you will get less than 9ms of lag in ANY picture mode, and even less if you turn off all picture processing. This TV "should" hypothetically last me until OLED becomes extremely affordable and enough people have tested input lag on various models. The great thing about OLED is that motion blur will be virtually non-existent, and as a result, TV manufacturers wont have to tack on needless things like RTC and other post-processing, which is what is most TV's are doing nowadays and thus creating insane amounts of lag. Hypothetically, OLED should not need any of those things, and thus have just as little input lag as the L32X1.
Edited by nintygaming - 1/23/13 at 2:44pm
post #37 of 39
Im glad for you that you found one of those pannies. I went to shoryuken.com as well and everyone pointed out to the l32x1 and to an asus monitor. There also where some LG models with an IPS-alpha panels that had minimum input lag.
Regarding the brightness I use directv, ps3, and netflix to watch movies, and when there is a scene thats really dark certain blacks mix with each other. I tried to tweak some settings here and there, but this issue has always been there.
If this is your first lcd tv after using the good old crts, then your eyes will require some time to adapt. Im talking about the motion blur. In some games you wont notice it that much, but in others like final fantasy XIII you are going to get a hell of a headache everytime you turn your point of view. This happens because lcds are mostly 60hz, so anything above 100hz will perform better in this department. I sold my wii a long time ago (about the time I bought the lcd panasonic tv), and now I only game on my ps3 or on my pc.
post #38 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by k4ever View Post

Im glad for you that you found one of those pannies. I went to shoryuken.com as well and everyone pointed out to the l32x1 and to an asus monitor. There also where some LG models with an IPS-alpha panels that had minimum input lag.
Regarding the brightness I use directv, ps3, and netflix to watch movies, and when there is a scene thats really dark certain blacks mix with each other. I tried to tweak some settings here and there, but this issue has always been there.
If this is your first lcd tv after using the good old crts, then your eyes will require some time to adapt. Im talking about the motion blur. In some games you wont notice it that much, but in others like final fantasy XIII you are going to get a hell of a headache everytime you turn your point of view. This happens because lcds are mostly 60hz, so anything above 100hz will perform better in this department. I sold my wii a long time ago (about the time I bought the lcd panasonic tv), and now I only game on my ps3 or on my pc.

Any set with a low contrast ratio/weak black levels will do this (this includes all IPS panels, which have native contrast ratios under 1,000:1) and dark scenes will always look more natural/realistic on a display with high contrast/deep black levels. You can use a lower/brighter gamma to improve shadow detail but it still won't look that great and at some point it will only end up washing out near blacks. IPS panels shine with brighter content and in bright rooms, especially with color. However, they're not ideal for viewing in a dark room or for dark games/movies/TV shows.
post #39 of 39
How is the Panasonic VIERA TC-L32DT30 32" TV for lag and black levels? Will the blacks be worse than my 6 year old Sony Bravia 32" 720P TV?
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