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Budget Speaker Advice - Pioneer Andrew Jones Speakers

post #1 of 20
9/21/12 at 5:58pm
Thread Starter 
I'm upgrading from ridiculously cheap HTIB speakers to a budget speaker system. I'm in a town home, so I can't blast the sound too loud, but I want a good budget 5.1 system that'll fill my average sized living room (18x12). I stumbled across these speakers and sight unseen fell in love. I'm not an audiophile - I don't need perfection, but I want good sound at a great deal.

My receiver is a Denon AVR590. My center channel the past year (old one gave out) has been MartinLogan TF Encore, but I don't have the budget for four more MartinLogan's, and I know enough to not try and match speakers to it. So I'm doing 5.1 speakers from scratch.

I originally planned on buying the C21/BS21/SW8 system and then saw the new system come out. I'm debating several options and am looking for advice on what would be the best. Each of these options would use the sub built for the system unless there is another recommendation. This is primarily for movies/tv.

Option 1: this years speakers
Center: C22
Front L/R: FS52's
Rear L/R: BS22's
Option 2: this years speakers, but 41s for the rears
Center: C22
Front L/R: FS52's
Rear L/R: BS41's (how will they pair with this years model?)
Option 3: wait for new 41s for the rears
Same as option 2, but wait until a replacement for the 41's comes out and use those for the rears
Option 4: last years speakers
Center: C21
Front L/R: FS51's
Rear L/r: BS21's (or 41's)?

I'm digging my way through the 100 page thread on these speakers, but that's a lot of reading and I'm hoping somebody who knows more than me can share their expertise.
Edited by cubateve - 9/21/12 at 6:14pm
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post #2 of 20
9/21/12 at 9:06pm
Personally, I would go with this year's models. The improvements are significant. However, If budget is an issue it would make sense to go with option 4.
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post #3 of 20
9/22/12 at 8:08am
Thread Starter 
I'm on a budget, but not so much that it eliminates this years models. I'm strongly leaning towards getting this years - my hang up is this: I saw repeatedly last year how superior the BS41 was to the 21. I'm undecided now on whether to do the 41 as my rear surrounds, or to match everything for this year and get the new 22's. Also, since this is primarily movie watching, I've seen some mixed reviews on the sub - is there a cheap alternative for under $250 anyone could recommend, or is the SW8 the best I'll get for this system at my price point?
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post #4 of 20
9/22/12 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubateve View Post

I'm on a budget, but not so much that it eliminates this years models. I'm strongly leaning towards getting this years - my hang up is this: I saw repeatedly last year how superior the BS41 was to the 21. I'm undecided now on whether to do the 41 as my rear surrounds, or to match everything for this year and get the new 22's. Also, since this is primarily movie watching, I've seen some mixed reviews on the sub - is there a cheap alternative for under $250 anyone could recommend, or is the SW8 the best I'll get for this system at my price point?

The Energy sub is a good one
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882269026

The BS22 is a good choice for surrounds.
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post #5 of 20
9/22/12 at 8:22am
Quote:
I've seen some mixed reviews on the sub - is there a cheap alternative for under $250 anyone could recommend, or is the SW8 the best I'll get for this system at my price point?

The Pioneer SW8 definitely is not the best you can do for $250. Its not the best you can do for $110.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-629
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-628

Best subs under $250
http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-F12-475-Watt-Subwoofer/dp/B0015A8Y5M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1348327237&sr=8-1&keywords=bic+f12
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-12-Inch-Powered-Subwoofer/dp/B000092TT0/ref=pd_cp_e_0
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882269026
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post #6 of 20
9/22/12 at 9:32am
If I were thinking about this purchase, I'd rule out Option 4 and consider 1, 2, and 3 only. While I've only heard the original models and not the new, there's enough positive testimonial from people who have heard both to go with a front sound stage that uses the new models. And then I'd ask people in the owners thread for these speakers to advise me on 1, 2, and 3 since that's where the majority of the people that have experience with both hang out smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Best subs under $250
http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-F12-475-Watt-Subwoofer/dp/B0015A8Y5M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1348327237&sr=8-1&keywords=bic+f12
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-12-Inch-Powered-Subwoofer/dp/B000092TT0/ref=pd_cp_e_0
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882269026

These would be my choices, too, for $250 and under. Forget the SW-8. It's not the price/performance value that the other Pioneers are, and these three subs above are a big step up for an HT setup.
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post #7 of 20
9/22/12 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubateve View Post

I'm upgrading from ridiculously cheap HTIB speakers to a budget speaker system. I'm in a town home, so I can't blast the sound too loud, but I want a good budget 5.1 system that'll fill my average sized living room (18x12). I stumbled across these speakers and sight unseen fell in love. I'm not an audiophile - I don't need perfection, but I want good sound at a great deal.
My receiver is a Denon AVR590. My center channel the past year (old one gave out) has been MartinLogan TF Encore, but I don't have the budget for four more MartinLogan's, and I know enough to not try and match speakers to it. So I'm doing 5.1 speakers from scratch.
I originally planned on buying the C21/BS21/SW8 system and then saw the new system come out. I'm debating several options and am looking for advice on what would be the best. Each of these options would use the sub built for the system unless there is another recommendation. This is primarily for movies/tv.
Option 1: this years speakers
Center: C22
Front L/R: FS52's
Rear L/R: BS22's
Option 2: this years speakers, but 41s for the rears
Center: C22
Front L/R: FS52's
Rear L/R: BS41's (how will they pair with this years model?)
Option 3: wait for new 41s for the rears
Same as option 2, but wait until a replacement for the 41's comes out and use those for the rears
Option 4: last years speakers
Center: C21
Front L/R: FS51's
Rear L/r: BS21's (or 41's)?
I'm digging my way through the 100 page thread on these speakers, but that's a lot of reading and I'm hoping somebody who knows more than me can share their expertise.

according to me...3 options ..3 are very good
1. energy take classic 5.1 400$
2. polk audio blackstone tl 1600 400$

and last but not the least ... UR ORIGINAL IDEA...excellent speaker system SP PK 21BS 5.1 speaker package ...for just 320$ from newegg...but u should buy seperately...
its even better to avoid pioneer sub and go for PSW 10 for 100$ ....
that is the best budjet setup u get ..or consider PSW 125
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post #8 of 20
9/22/12 at 1:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubateve View Post

I'm upgrading from ridiculously cheap HTIB speakers to a budget speaker system. I'm in a town home, so I can't blast the sound too loud, but I want a good budget 5.1 system that'll fill my average sized living room (18x12). I stumbled across these speakers and sight unseen fell in love. I'm not an audiophile - I don't need perfection, but I want good sound at a great deal.
My receiver is a Denon AVR590. My center channel the past year (old one gave out) has been MartinLogan TF Encore, but I don't have the budget for four more MartinLogan's, and I know enough to not try and match speakers to it. So I'm doing 5.1 speakers from scratch.
I originally planned on buying the C21/BS21/SW8 system and then saw the new system come out. I'm debating several options and am looking for advice on what would be the best. Each of these options would use the sub built for the system unless there is another recommendation. This is primarily for movies/tv.
Option 1: this years speakers
Center: C22
Front L/R: FS52's
Rear L/R: BS22's
Option 2: this years speakers, but 41s for the rears
Center: C22
Front L/R: FS52's
Rear L/R: BS41's (how will they pair with this years model?)
Option 3: wait for new 41s for the rears
Same as option 2, but wait until a replacement for the 41's comes out and use those for the rears
Option 4: last years speakers
Center: C21
Front L/R: FS51's
Rear L/r: BS21's (or 41's)?
I'm digging my way through the 100 page thread on these speakers, but that's a lot of reading and I'm hoping somebody who knows more than me can share their expertise.

according to me...3 options ..3 are very good
1. energy take classic 5.1 400$
2. polk audio blackstone tl 1600 400$

and last but not the least ... UR ORIGINAL IDEA...excellent speaker system SP PK 21BS 5.1 speaker package ...for just 320$ from newegg...but u should buy seperately...
its even better to avoid pioneer sub and go for PSW 10 for 100$ ....
that is the best budjet setup u get ..or consider PSW 125
Reply
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post #9 of 20
9/22/12 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubateve View Post

I'm upgrading from ridiculously cheap HTIB speakers to a budget speaker system. I'm in a town home, so I can't blast the sound too loud, but I want a good budget 5.1 system that'll fill my average sized living room (18x12). I stumbled across these speakers and sight unseen fell in love. I'm not an audiophile - I don't need perfection, but I want good sound at a great deal.
My receiver is a Denon AVR590. My center channel the past year (old one gave out) has been MartinLogan TF Encore, but I don't have the budget for four more MartinLogan's, and I know enough to not try and match speakers to it. So I'm doing 5.1 speakers from scratch.
I originally planned on buying the C21/BS21/SW8 system and then saw the new system come out. I'm debating several options and am looking for advice on what would be the best. Each of these options would use the sub built for the system unless there is another recommendation. This is primarily for movies/tv.
Option 1: this years speakers
Center: C22
Front L/R: FS52's
Rear L/R: BS22's
Option 2: this years speakers, but 41s for the rears
Center: C22
Front L/R: FS52's
Rear L/R: BS41's (how will they pair with this years model?)
Option 3: wait for new 41s for the rears
Same as option 2, but wait until a replacement for the 41's comes out and use those for the rears
Option 4: last years speakers
Center: C21
Front L/R: FS51's
Rear L/r: BS21's (or 41's)?
I'm digging my way through the 100 page thread on these speakers, but that's a lot of reading and I'm hoping somebody who knows more than me can share their expertise.

according to me...3 options ..3 are very good
1. energy take classic 5.1 400$
2. polk audio blackstone tl 1600 400$

and last but not the least ... UR ORIGINAL IDEA...excellent speaker system SP PK 21BS 5.1 speaker package ...for just 320$ from newegg...but u should buy seperately...
its even better to avoid pioneer sub and go for PSW 10 for 100$ ....
that is the best budjet setup u get ..or consider PSW 125
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post #10 of 20
10/6/12 at 11:23am
Thread Starter 
After finally reading through the 104 pages (and counting) in the owners forum for these speakers, and knowing that I'll likely regret it later if I skimp $150 on a purchase like this, I've decided I'll be buying this years models - I'll end up with:
Center: C22
L/R: FS52's
Surrounds:BS22's

I'm still undecided on the sub. My next project is to read through about 4 different budget sub threads, but it seems I already have some excellent recommendations. The point of my continued research there will be two-fold:
1 - If I extend my sub budget to $300, would that offer me a better option (subs I'll be looking into primarily include Klipsch RW-12D, PA-150, BIC PL-200)
2 - Which sub is best (likely among BIC F12, Energy S-10.3, Polk PSW505 unless I find a better option by slightly extending my budget)

I'll do the research, but I'd appreciate feedback/advice concerning what will pair best with my system and be best primarily for movies/TV/music (in that order). If it matters, my room is just under 2000 CF. I'm in a town home with neighbors, but I'd rather just buy one sub to turn down now and crank up later when I'm in a house (besides - my neighbors are college kids who pump their own music and are rarely home)
Edited by cubateve - 10/6/12 at 12:14pm
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post #11 of 20
10/7/12 at 8:42am
The Energy S10.3 is listed as out of stock and discontinued on Newegg's website, so no more good deals on that for right now.

The Klipsch RW-12d is on sale for $279 at Newegg this weekend. That's the best all around sub for under $300. It has some DSP controls that allow you to configure a night mode setting for when you want to quickly crank it down for late night viewing with neighbors. Although you are right. Your college student neighbors probably won't care smile.gif
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post #12 of 20
10/7/12 at 8:48am
Thread Starter 
The Energy can be had new on Amazon from about $270 right now. You still feel the Klipsch is a bit better? Anything specific with the sound that makes it better than the energy?
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post #13 of 20
10/7/12 at 8:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubateve View Post

The Energy can be had new on Amazon from about $270 right now. You still feel the Klipsch is a bit better? Anything specific with the sound that makes it better than the energy?

If you search the AVS subwoofer forum, you'll see lots of discussion about why this sub is generally considered the best value at $300. Here's a shootout at Sound and Vision magazine where it was compared with more expensive subs and held up very well (use the paging mechanism at the bottom of the page).
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post #14 of 20
10/7/12 at 9:57am
If you can afford it, the Energy RC-10's were recently 199/pair and the center is also the same price. These are real wood veneer and have reviewed well. Spend $600 total on these (2 pairs and a center), and get a decent sub from craigslist (I recently bought an SVS sub for $100). Or get a $100 Dayton sub from parts express. Spend the money where you'll mostly hear it.

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/542469405?SSAID=3634

http://www.meijer.com/s/energy-speaker-systems-rc-lcr-center-speaker/_/R-224354
Edited by jcm2128 - 10/7/12 at 10:02am
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post #15 of 20
10/7/12 at 2:40pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the advice cel4145 - I've spent the past 3-4 days reading subwoofer forums, and the 2+ weeks prior to that reading speaker forums. I am still looking now for a bit more info on the PA 120 and PA 150, but from everything I've seen your advice is pretty spot on - nothing for $300 or less will beat that Klipsch!
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post #16 of 20
10/7/12 at 5:44pm
For $279, it's tough to beat the Klipsch RW-12D, especially in terms of output (it can be boomy at times). There are better music-oriented subs at this price (including the Energy S-10.3). I like smaller 8 - 10 inch woofers and sealed for music. The two bass-reflux designs below have been $199 in the past (The energy is now $299).. This would be my choice over the RW-12D. Your room is on the smaller side, you don't need mega output unless you're trying to upset the neighbors! In my similar sized room, I like my Klipsch XW-300d better than my 80 pound SVS PB-NSD. SVS can play much louder, but it gets boomy. I don't need 115 SPL. 105 is fine.

http://www.amazon.com/Energy-ESW-M8-NA-1200-Watt-Subwoofer/dp/B004TA8YNW/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1349656916&sr=1-6&keywords=mirage+subwoofer

http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-SW-308-Reference-Subwoofer-System/dp/B0046L4MP8/ref=sr_1_8?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1349656642&sr=1-8&keywords=klipsch+subwoofer
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post #17 of 20
10/7/12 at 6:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubateve View Post

Thanks for the advice cel4145 - I've spent the past 3-4 days reading subwoofer forums, and the 2+ weeks prior to that reading speaker forums. I am still looking now for a bit more info on the PA 120 and PA 150, but from everything I've seen your advice is pretty spot on - nothing for $300 or less will beat that Klipsch!

The PA-120 and PA-150 are nice alternatives to the BIC F12 and PL-200. However, they don't have nearly as much useable output below 30hz as the Klipsch. Their tuning points are set really high, but with a gradual roll off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcm2128 View Post

For $279, it's tough to beat the Klipsch RW-12D, especially in terms of output (it can be boomy at times). There are better music-oriented subs at this price (including the Energy S-10.3). I like smaller 8 - 10 inch woofers and sealed for music. The two bass-reflux designs below have been $199 in the past (The energy is now $299).. This would be my choice over the RW-12D. Your room is on the smaller side, you don't need mega output unless you're trying to upset the neighbors! In my similar sized room, I like my Klipsch XW-300d better than my 80 pound SVS PB-NSD. SVS can play much louder, but it gets boomy. I don't need 115 SPL. 105 is fine.
http://www.amazon.com/Energy-ESW-M8-NA-1200-Watt-Subwoofer/dp/B004TA8YNW/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1349656916&sr=1-6&keywords=mirage+subwoofer
http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-SW-308-Reference-Subwoofer-System/dp/B0046L4MP8/ref=sr_1_8?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1349656642&sr=1-8&keywords=klipsch+subwoofer

Neither of those are sealed subs, though. The passive radiators act just like a port but without port noise. For a music only system in a small room, yes. They could be a good choice. However, their response drops like a rock below the tuning point. Not going to get much <30hz content out of either of these for HT usage.
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post #18 of 20
10/7/12 at 6:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcm2128 View Post

For $279, it's tough to beat the Klipsch RW-12D, especially in terms of output (it can be boomy at times). There are better music-oriented subs at this price (including the Energy S-10.3)

If one was going to listen to music as much as home theater - then I agree, the Energy S10.3
would also be my preference - if one is willing to pay for it >> Not everybody is looking for the
lowest octave, or some boom for music.
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post #19 of 20
10/7/12 at 6:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

The PA-120 and PA-150 are nice alternatives to the BIC F12 and PL-200. However, they don't have nearly as much useable output below 30hz as the Klipsch. Their tuning points are set really high, but with a gradual roll off.
Neither of those are sealed subs, though. The passive radiators act just like a port but without port noise. For a music only system in a small room, yes. They could be a good choice. However, their response drops like a rock below the tuning point. Not going to get much <30hz content out of either of these for HT usage.

Agreed. Klipsch should have kept the sealed design of the XW series... The XW-300D extension is good too. It is only down 6 db at 19hz as measured by hometheather.com (pretty impressive for an 8 inch sub in a small cabinet).
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post #20 of 20
10/7/12 at 8:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcm2128 View Post

Agreed. Klipsch should have kept the sealed design of the XW series... The XW-300D extension is good too. It is only down 6 db at 19hz as measured by hometheather.com (pretty impressive for an 8 inch sub in a small cabinet).

Making me jealous of something I can't get ahold of there! haha

This system is primarily for movies, then TV. It will be used a little for music, but only at lower levels in the background as we go about our business smile.gif My room currently isn't that big, and I have neighbors, but it opens on one end to an entryway and stairs, and the middle of another wall to a short, wide hallway that opens to a large kitchen. Long and short of it, I'm not sure how contained the bass will be to my actual viewing room. I'd rather get a sub I can turn a little down now as my housing arrangement is likely to change sooner than later and I'd rather not buy another sub later. Considering all this, would that change any of your recommendations?
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