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Getting warm in my theater room, options to pull out hot air?

post #1 of 17
9/24/12 at 1:56pm
Thread Starter 
I've got 2 supplies coming into the theater room in the basement that even in summer couldn't keep up with a room full of people (8 seats). When it is 3-4 people it starts to get a bit warm for my tastes after about 2 hours, but isn't unbearable. As a note, my equipment is all in the room, and the walls/ceiling are decoupled and then DD+GG.

So anyway, the basement is fully finished and there were no air returns anywhere, and obviously not in the theater then.

Now that winter is coming, and even though I can close the vents to virtually eliminate heat coming in, I think that I need to do something to get warm air out of the room.

Getting an air return back to the HVAC room at this point would be a timely, messy, costly operation since everything is drywalled and there are no good paths to do it.

Would a dead vent work to help pull air out of the room, or would there be an even easier way to just exhaust it without having to even do that far? Of course I would like to keep the integrity of the sound "proofing" that I've done.

I liked how quiet things stayed using flex-duct for the incoming air, so I would thing that something would have to encorporate that too, but getting enough in the wall to allow bends will mean taking out a decent amount of drywall.

Ideas/options?


Thanks a TON!
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post #2 of 17
9/24/12 at 2:12pm
Identical problem, brother.

Only I have merely one drop for an 11x 21 room. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb. The drop was so close to the blower (first branch on the duct) I was sure I was going to be fine with one.

My main problem is all the effin' quartz halogen I've got going for my lighting. Some of those fixtures throw off enough heat to flash fry an Easter ham. And the kids... Jeez. The wife/kids are as diligent at turning off the lights in the theater as they are at turning off the lights in the rest of the house. Not!

"It's like that woman jus' don't understand that the light switch moves in two directions." - Rick, Walking Dead.

I'm debating adding one of these to the drop:

http://www.thelashop.com/inline-duct-booster-vent-fan-blower-6-inch-150-cfm.html?utm_source=googlepla&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=CMLI8fWPz7ICFXCmPAodeyUAeg#.UGDMIbLN9hk

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post #3 of 17
9/24/12 at 2:23pm
Thread Starter 
I am not sure a booster would help. What seems obvious now is what would have saved me from this to begin with. Air coming in needs to also be able to get out. Sort of like trying to blow more air into an inflated beach ball. Unless some of the existing air is released, no more can be put in. I was thinking that a strategically placed exhaust vent of some sort right above my equipment rack would help pull air from one of the hottest spots of the room. In summer it would pull cooler air towards the seats. In winter I would just have to leave the door open a bit and it could equalize with the rest of the basement. Maybe utilize the 12v trigger on my receiver to turn the fan on/off would work, but I am at a loss on the design that will not only do the job, but also be quiet and without tearing up too much drywall...
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post #4 of 17
9/24/12 at 4:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

Would a dead vent work to help pull air out of the room, or would there be an even easier way to just exhaust it without having to even do that far? Of course I would like to keep the integrity of the sound "proofing" that I've done.
I would think a dead vent or some subtle variation is the only real option. I would personally hope to draw air from the heat sources (rack? or projector?) and dump it somewhere convenient. I think you'd do best with a powered inline fan, but it may not be strictly necessary, depending on design. Assuming venting the hot air is possible, your only other decision to make, I think, is where to put the air. I think another portion of the basement - somewhere nearer the return - would be the logical choice, but there may be an advantage or reason to vent outside(?) - like a bathroom vent - but I would imagine this is less desirable for both sound and airflow balance.

Do you have a couple pictures or diagrams that illustrate where the heat sources are relative to other players in this scenario (HVAC return, outside walls, unused spaces)?
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post #5 of 17
9/24/12 at 4:51pm
Thread Starter 
I will put up some diagrams tonight when I am on my computer and not my phone, but one thing that I read on a HVAC forum when I was google searching this was that putting in a bathroom type fan and exhausting it outside sounded good in theory, but in practice, it can create negative atmosphere inside the house and then start replenishing that vented air with exhaust air from other sources like your furnace or gas powered water heater. This can also produce enough negative atmosphere that it can prevent fireplace exhaust from being able to escape up a chimney. Now, I wasn't convinced on the logic thinking that it isn't venting that much air at something like 100 com or something, but I must have read it on 3 different sites. Plus bathroom fans aren't quiet.

Again, I will post some pictures and diagrams...
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post #6 of 17
9/24/12 at 6:25pm
Thread Starter 
Ok. Some starter photos. The front wall and then the back... We are not here to critique my photography skills and the colors are off, but... Anyway, the equipment is in the left of the picture (rear right if sitting in the seats)...




Another shot of the back wall.


Even closer:


The whole room is about 14 feet wide, 24 feet deep, and just under 8 feet tall.

So behind the front wall (which is behind the false wall) is a concrete wall. The far (right when sitting down) wall is also concrete behind the drywall/studs. The left wall near the front is shared with a wet bar on the other side. The rest of the left wall is a hallway. The other side of the rear wall is the family room.

The equipment rack area shown on the back wall (with the bundles of wires) extends out into the family room about 20" and is just short of 2 feet wide.

Just on the other side of the equipment rack, where it extends into the family room, is a 6 foot sliding door that goes outside.

The two "feed" HVAC in the room are pretty much in the middle on each side and in the soffits. (Just a few feet in front of the wall sconces.)

I will keep looking for a diagram, but this is what I could dig up quickly.

Also of note, there are no, zero, zip, nada air returns in the basement. My research has also shown that putting them in basements seems to be a mixed bag depending on which HVAC company you talk to. Some say that they help, others say that they don't and can actually decrease performance or efficiency (which are two different things). I had more people say to leave them out because our furnace is NOT high efficiency meaning that it needs to suck air in from outside to work and if there are returns in the system that it can start putting exhaust gases into the house. What do I know, they are supposed to be the experts, and I couldn't get any HVAC person locally to recommend it either...


EDIT: I couldn't find a diagram of the layout, so I (poorly) sketched one up. I know, I have the hand writing of a doctor. I work in I.T. I type everything...)


Edited by nickbuol - 9/24/12 at 6:35pm
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post #7 of 17
9/25/12 at 5:12am
Forced air systems are push/pull if you add a dead vent you need to take that air to an area of the house where there is a return. If you have NO returns in the basement that means taking it upstairs.Or leaving the door open at the the top of the stairs. Actually taking it up stairs without leaving the door open would cause negative pressure in the basement and would be a safety issue, bottom line is add a return in the basement and add the dead vent in the theater.
Edited by BIGmouthinDC - 9/25/12 at 5:18am
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post #8 of 17
9/25/12 at 8:22am
BIG has forgotten more about theater construction than I will ever know.

If he says it, it's true.
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post #9 of 17
9/25/12 at 9:47am
Simple. Mini Split system.

They are inexpensive and can be installed just about anywhere. They are extremely quiet. I use one in my equipment room (1 ton) that is attached to my theater and it easily cools that room as it will get to 90 degrees within 10-20 minutes of a movie starting (7 amplifiers, projector and all other accompanying electronics).
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post #10 of 17
9/25/12 at 4:00pm
I strongly second the recommendation of a mini-split system. Have just started using them this summer in a big addition (which includes a dedicated 10' tall basement home theater space). These systems are efficient, quiet, relatively inexpensive, very easy to install and can also serve as heat pumps in cold weather. I did the installation myself except for the final line vacuuming and charging. I think I took pictures of each step of the process which I'd be glad to share. You have (depending on the height of the concrete) what looks to be short and easy access to the exterior.

Strongly recommend.
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post #11 of 17
9/25/12 at 7:17pm
Your situation sounds similar to what I ran into. Sealed room, even with HVAC going, if the door is closed it does not circulate well.

Mini-split sounds like a nice/best solution. I was not as limited in my situation with 1 drop. I have 2 drops, but even so prior to my current re-build, it got warm or even hot much like you described.

I found that if I can just move the air out of the room, THROUGH the equipment closet and into an adjoining room (which happened to be a laundry room) it would keep the fresh air moving and avoid the stale "Frito" smell.

I went with a 160CFM fireplace fan from eBay (about ($50). The thing will move some air and is very, VERY quiet.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1413615/knoxvegas-bang-for-the-buck-theater

The receiver is on, the fan is on. it should have enough draw to pull air through the ducts even without the main HVAC system blowing.

Not sure if it is a solution for you, just perhaps a consideration..

John
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post #12 of 17
9/26/12 at 7:34am
Thread Starter 
The mini split systems probably offer the best flexability to temp control, however they there is the placement issue. Can't go along the side walls because there is just enough space to walk as is, plus I would have to tear into a bunch of my finished construction with DD+GG to get it installed. If I went on the back wall, there is a little more space, but I would still be tearing into a bunch of drywall to get it in place. At least there I could work from the family room side and only be tearing up 1 layer of regular 5/8" drywall, but still... Hmmmm....

Or there is the installation of a return somewhere in the basement, which I've wondered about in the past anyway. There are no doors at the top or the bottom of the stairway, so it is all open, but I think that if I could get a return put somewhere in the basement, then the whole basement would be more comfortible (not that it is bad now). Then something to vent the warm air out of the theater would be an option again...

Mini-splits seem to run at least $500-$800.
I could try some sort of fanned vent above the equipment rack for maybe $80 or so and then look at putting a return in the basement hallway maybe since that is about the only place near the center of the basement that I could install one without ripping into a finished bathroom or other finished area. I could put it in under the stairs since the return ducting is right on the other side of the stairs opposite the hallway. That would probably run another $75.

Hmmmm... (yeah, I know, I said that already. Just lots to think about.)

I wonder how close the "exhaust" from the theater would need to be to the return in the basement to work. I know the closer the better, but I would think that it would still work with the vent at the equipment rack and a new return under the stairs....
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post #13 of 17
9/26/12 at 7:59am

I am currently addressing this same issue in my Working Man's Theater.  I've asked all the same questions your asking.  My solution may be a bit different as my room is upstairs and I do currently have a return but alas its still not enough.  I have two 8" supplies and one 14x20 Return.  Our rooms are nearly identical my dims are 14x23x8.  With everything running(equipment) its still hot up there.  With the help of some forum members we calculated my projector and rack contributed about as much heat as 10people in the room!

 

  • Adding a return will help IMO, but IDK if it will be enough.
  • How are the temps during the winter?
  • Pulling air from rack and projector and dumping remotely will help.
  • Minisplit is prob a good solution and you could keep current setup.
  • Negative pressure in theater means whatever the HVAC is doing will be exacerbated(more heat during winter).

 

 

My solution ended up being(currently) an inline panasonic fan and a pid controller.  I'm doing a hush box and venting the rack remotely.  IDK if this will solve my prob yet, I'll still prob end up with a minisplit or a zoned system.

 

Good Luck, heat is a big prob for many theaters.

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post #14 of 17
9/29/12 at 11:29am
Interesting challenge you are dealing with but I am assuming not that uncommon. My house is currently under construction and BIG and I have examined my theater room and determined I would have the same issue if we did not add a return.

On BIG's suggestion I spoke with the builder and hopefully we will get this addressed during construction.

B2
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post #15 of 17
10/3/12 at 4:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

The mini split systems probably offer the best flexability to temp control, however they there is the placement issue. Can't go along the side walls because there is just enough space to walk as is, plus I would have to tear into a bunch of my finished construction with DD+GG to get it installed. If I went on the back wall, there is a little more space, but I would still be tearing into a bunch of drywall to get it in place. At least there I could work from the family room side and only be tearing up 1 layer of regular 5/8" drywall, but still... Hmmmm....
Or there is the installation of a return somewhere in the basement, which I've wondered about in the past anyway. There are no doors at the top or the bottom of the stairway, so it is all open, but I think that if I could get a return put somewhere in the basement, then the whole basement would be more comfortible (not that it is bad now). Then something to vent the warm air out of the theater would be an option again...
Mini-splits seem to run at least $500-$800.
I could try some sort of fanned vent above the equipment rack for maybe $80 or so and then look at putting a return in the basement hallway maybe since that is about the only place near the center of the basement that I could install one without ripping into a finished bathroom or other finished area. I could put it in under the stairs since the return ducting is right on the other side of the stairs opposite the hallway. That would probably run another $75.
Hmmmm... (yeah, I know, I said that already. Just lots to think about.)
I wonder how close the "exhaust" from the theater would need to be to the return in the basement to work. I know the closer the better, but I would think that it would still work with the vent at the equipment rack and a new return under the stairs....

Before I added my mini split. I had a large exhaust fan.... and it worked at lowering the temperature but not enough to keep things comfortable. Also, it wasn't too loud but distracting in quiet scenes (even though I bought a quiet model and added 8 mini rack fans to draw additional hot air out). SO that solution was a loser. I wouldn't even spend the $80 or $100 in fans. It will not do it for your situation. Tear up a little drywall, add the mini split and repaint and you'll never look back.
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post #16 of 17
10/3/12 at 5:57am
Thread Starter 
What is the ballpark price for a minisplit that would work for something like my 14' x 24' x 8' space?
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post #17 of 17
10/3/12 at 7:05am
Nick,

I bought mine for around $750. I bought a 1 ton unit. It is plenty for my room (and our rooms are almost identical in size - yours is 2 feet longer). You can spend more for a brand name unit, but I personally couldn't justify the additional cost for something that was going to see seldom use.

Remember you will need someone to pull a vacuum on your line set before you release the refrigerant charge.
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