NetFlix BD's Without DTS-HD Master Audio / DD 5.1 Instead - Page 14

If I start getting a lot of DD 5.1 Blu-rays from Netflix I'll just cancel and watch when they come out on cable - pretty simple for me.

I don't have time to read all these pages but if you check the news there's groups of movies with HD Audio in tact.

I'm not surprised, because others have done the same thing. TV shows advertise DD5.1 but put hardly anything worthwhile in all the channels. Some did it at first, but must have realized they weren't making the extra money to pay for the extra cost.

Yes, this is infuriating.
I rent things I don't want to buy.
I don't want to buy them because I only plan on watching them once.
First all the rental stores go out of business.
Next Netflix seems more interested in streaming than disc renting (and charges more for blurays).
And now, when I rent a disc it shows up stripped of extras AND with DVD quality sound!? The former is acceptable, the latter is not.
This just happened to me when I rented the Hunger Games from blockbuster through the mail.

My thoughts on this are:
1) Most people (outside of this forum) do not care about HD sound, so why would they use this as a way to try to get people to buy.

2) Most people (again outside of this forum) don't even care for BluRays over DVDs/streaming/TV, so putting inferior sound on a rented BluRay only devalues BluRay.

3) The reason I rent a movie is because I don't want to buy it, not because I don't care about the sound quality.

I've actually begun to consider dealing with this issue by buying a bluray, waching it once, and then selling it immediately... and counting the money I lose on that as the "rental fee". That would end up hurting the movie company because someone would buy my used bluray instead of a new copy, defeating what they are trying to do (i.e. sell more blurays). The only reason I do not do this method is there is no way of knowing if the rental will be stripped down or not until you get it.

Personally, I think this whole thing is silly for them to do. Not only do they have to go to all the trouble of creating two versions of the same bluray, but also it probably isn't very good at accomplishing what they are attempting to do (get people to buy blurays).

Even if I were a relatively uninformed consumer, getting a stripped down bluray wouldn't make me want to buy it more. I would just figure that blurays sucked and weren't as great as they were made out to be (in other words, if i heard DD 5.1 sound on a bluray not even knowing anything about it, I would just think "wow, this doesn't sound any better, i'll just stick with buying DVDs then").

YES! Totally. I agree with this post. If we are going to accept "good enough" then watching on TV (especially satellite) fits the bill compared to the hassle of receiving a BluRay rental only to disappointingly discover it has DD 5.1

Heck, even many Netflix streaming movies have Dolby Digital Plus, which is allegedly better than DD 5.1 so this BluRay rental issue is definitely a step backwards. Tsk tsk.

I go to the theatre for movies about once a month. I like the experience and have since I was a child. I also buy (and upgrade to) Blu-Ray for the titles that I will watch multiple times. I rented Hunger Games BD from Red Box and it didn't have the HD audio. I could tell within the first few minutes of the film that it was missing. I was really disappointed because I bet that movie has a great HD audio track. I haven't rented a BD from Red Box since, and I don't know if I have a desire to, because the sound is half the fun!

Will it make me buy the BD because I won't rent it from Netflix or RB? Nope. The only blind BD purchases I make are those movies which I WANTED to see in the theatre but they didn't make it to my town because their release was so limited. I wouldn't have purchased Hunger Games if I had known the audio was lossy, nor will I purchase other films I haven't seen before on a whim.

I understand why the studios do this, but I will speak with my money by not purchasing BDs that I am unsure I would want to watch multiple times. I am sure me not purchasing Hunger Games on BD won't kill the bigger studio, but if I don't purchase Mozart's Sister on BD, it might hurt the smaller studio.

I'm glad I found this thread, I rarely buy disks with some exceptions - concert Blu-rays I enjoy collecting and watch multiple times, and some 'epic' BRDs like the LOTR trilogy. In general I go to the theatre for some blockbusters, and rent the rest - I guess I own several given as gifts too.

I started noticing a while back the rentals didn't sound as good, but rarely bothered to get up and see what the prepro reported - and I never bothered to research what format the studio released the disk in. It's good now to be aware that my suspicions are confirmed, though I now feel helpless to do anything about it except buy and sell disks when I want quality sound (I have no interest in collecting most movies).

So yes, I feel ripped off, I pay extra for a Blu-ray rental and that should include the original (best quality) video AND audio.

1080i low bitrate video, lower bitrate DD 5.1 often downmixed to 2.0, non-OAR...this totally makes sense to me.

No, they realized that people who watch TV in full 5.1 setups are exception to the rule and concentrated on making sure they sounded ok coming out of just 2 TV speakers.

My 2 cents - I haven't noticed the lack of HD Audio on rented blu-rays because I can't even remember the last time I rented a movie. I am a collector of Blu-rays so, it's a waste of money for me to rent. I may watch something on Netflix from time to time but it's usually a tv show. But my opinion is that I think they are doing that with rentals to discourage pirating but let's face it, some folks out there are just fine with DD 5.1 & they will rip the movie anyway. As far as the movie studios only putting lossy audio on their rentals, that's smart. They are trying to convert sales from the rentals. If you really like the movie & you want to see it more than once & you want to hear the great HD audio in your own home theater, you'll buy it. Makes sense to me.

Wow, this is disturbing... HIGHLY disturbing. HD audio is the major plus I always tell people with regard to Blu-rays versus downloads, etc. We should start a list of Movies that have been altered to remove HD audio, Like they do for the movie tiers. Something like: Movie - Rental Location (Netflix, Blockbuster, Redbox). That would be VERY helpful!

So if you were stealing BD's you'd expect HD audio but if your renting them you dont care if its dvd standard lossy audio?

Most of the BD movies I get from Netflix have either DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD (5.1 or 7.1 with either lossless format). Only a handful of movies are DD 5.1. Is there a list of BD movies that only have DD 5.1 and are most of them recent or older?

I'm sitting here looking at the specs for The Avengers that I just picked up from Redbox. I see 3 main soundtracks on it - DTS 5.1, DTSHD-MA 5.1, AC3 5.1.

I thought DTSHD-MA is loss-less. Am I wrong? Or is the complaint that it is 5.1 instead of 7.1?

I can say that I rarely see 7.1 on rental discs. But since I don't have a 7.1 setup, that doesn't affect me. I can recall only a couple of BR rentals that didn't at least have DTSHD-MA 5.1 (The Grey was one that comes to mind).

So I agree in the respect that I expect DTSHD-MA or TrueHD on my BR, but I don't care 7.1 vs. 5.1 - or am I missing something in the definition of loss-less audio?

Without the highest end audio, I'll just wait for the movie to show up on whatever movie channel gets it, where it will also be (only) in DD5.1.

It's a minor annoyance. As a renter, you have two options:
1. If the lack of HD audio outweighs your enjoyment of the movie, you stop renting.
2. If you can deal with the lack of HD audio, you keep renting.

And as I watch movies mainly for the plot, I'm definitely in the latter category.

HD audio has always been a selling point for blu-ray for sure, but the main upgrade to me is, and always was, 1080p video. Those of you who have said you'd stop renting and watch it on cable seem to me like you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I don't understand why anyone thinks they deserve HD audio when they've just spent $1.50 on a Redbox rental, of which most of that fee will probably go towards Redbox maintenance of the kiosk and damaged discs. I think people are deluded by words -- the juxtaposition of "lossy" and "lossless" almost like chiaroscuro in their minds, past and future, when in actuality the difference isn't that huge. If there's 100 points in enjoyment of a movie, a lossy soundtracks takes 5 off that at most.

With regards to 7.1 audio, most are up-mixed from 5.1 by the studio to begin with, so put your receiver on ProLogic II and you have practically the same effect.

How about deleting scenes for renters? Is that smart? If you want to know how it ends, buy it. Does that make sense?

My point is some people think stripping the HD audio is already going too far.

Nothing wrong with renting, nothing wrong with buying.

But the idea, to take the extra time, effort and expense to strip out an HD audio track in order to diminish the rental experience, is twisted. Conceived by a sick, bloated industry. It shows they have utter contempt for the consumer. (aka, you.) They dont deserve your praise for employing that type of business model.

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion. Obviously, I strongly disagree.

+1.

I rent from Netflix and pay the BD rental premium though I get only a few Blu Ray movies. I havent noticed any differences yet but I have only gotten a few over the past 5months, or longer. I only get the BD option for the better audio. I do appreciate the higher definition, for sure, but i have gone to great lengths to construct the 7.2 audio speaker arrangement and all that. I dont miss the extras in the "rental' versions of any movie. I began to notice this distinguishing addition to the title when auto play or some other thing put it up since i use my computer to stream the movies. I rarely use my Blu ray player though i got a fairly good one.
While audio isnt the only reason, it is significant enough for me to opt out of the Netflix premium since all of the movies i have gotten so far have the option to get it in blu ray or dvd. It seems that is just another thing the rental businesses will have to deal with in their battle for market shares with the studios. I will not go to the movies anymore because they are too expensive and far too many distractions from movie goers who have no sense of decorum anymore-though it has deteriorated over many years. I like renting because of the whole watch it once theory. I dont want to pay so much for a movie i will watch once, and may not make it through that sitting and do not want to get involved with re sales, trade ins, etc. I presumed when i saw the special addition to the movie title identifying it as a rental, there were to be some reductions in quality, i just didnt notice the audio being cut back and it angers me.

Absolutely! My sound system costs much more than my 50" Pan. plasma & BluRay player.

I know I may be crazy, at least my wife thinks so, but one of the main reasons I enjoy collecting and watching movies on laserdisc is because they are mainly recorded in loss less true audio. Most of my LDs are in THX and DD 5.1 You can hear every single small detail of sound and it really makes the movie so much more fun to watch and listen to.

Cheers,
Paul

I forgot yes I do have a blu-ray player and a HD DVD player but I still prefer my Laserdisc player.

I have rented a few Blu Ray movies from Red Box, and they DID have DTS-HD Master Audio on them. Only reason I rent a Blu Ray is for the superior sound.

Yeah, I wrote to one of the studios(can't remember which one) back when this 28 day embargo began, to let them know that it would make no difference as to how many Blu-ray titles I would purchase, and it hasn't. I can wait 4 weeks. But, I haven't really noticed any Netflix titles so far that were missing DTS-MA or Dolby TrueHD.

And even if they strip the HD audio out of Netflix rentals, it will similarly not cause me to purchase any more titles. DD @ 640 will have to do then.

Now, I will say that I have purchased some of the combo packages, rather then the Blu-ray only disc, because my daughter can watch them in the car.

You can rent the retail version of any movie at Moving Trading Company.
Everything in the store is for sale or rent. And they have a good BluRay Criterion Collection also. All for rent

I still have not heard any blu-ray that rivals the kind of uncompressed, immensely powerful sound of my Jurassic Park laserdisc, and I do have the new JP blu-rays.

I am a sampler and I think this market is being grossly overlooked. What does that mean? I rent Bluray's first from Redbox because they are only $1.50. This allows me to do two things. Find out if I like the movie and determine if I would ever watch it again. Second, find out if the video and audio is worth shelling out the dough for a retail Bluray disk. If the answer to either or both of those is no I do not go out and buy the disk.

I also have the option of renting the same movie for $1.00 on DVD. If the rental experience on bluray is diminished I will just stop renting blurays and watch it on DVD. How does this help the studio's? You got me. It is also rediculous to think the only people that are disappointed in this decision are those that rent and rip because those are the same people that would never part with their cash for the retail disk anyway. They will just find another way to get it. This is just short sighted and simple minded decision making on the part of the studio's - nothing more, nothing less.

If the studio's have any common sense they will monitor rental activity to see if this action makes any difference whatsoever. My guess? This will not even show up as a pimple on an elephant's a$$. People will continue to rent just like they have, or in my case just switch completely over to DVD because most renters could care less about HD audio - most don't even know what it is in the first place. These are the same people that could not set the clock on their VCR's but somehow have managed to become savvy enough to work a redbox kiosk (or at least have their kids operate it for them:) The other segment that rents looks to bluray as a source for better picture and sound. If that is gone then the market for the disks both in rental sales and in retail sales will suffer plain and simple.

This is what I would call a lose lose for the studio's.

The fact that you think that 640Kbps DD is "dvd standard lossy audio" tells me all I need to know about your level of knowledge when it comes to these things.


Some of you guys are really funny...
Edited by Steeb - 10/5/12 at 4:30pm

I ran into this issue for the first time when renting The Hunger Games when it was released. Redbox made a big deal with decals on the boxes and emails to my inbox announcing that they would have it on release day. I expect I'll buy the Blu Ray some day, most likely when the trilogy is complete.

I had read good reviews about the lossless soundtrack and was looking forward to it. When we watched the disc, I could tell the sound lacked the fullness I've come to expect. Looking at my Denon, I could see it was showing DD. I played around with menus for ten minutes trying to figure out how to get the lossless audio turned on. I finally gave up and later learned that the studio had stuck the rental Blu-Ray with DVD sound.

Needless to say, I was not amused. I'll certainly be checking ahead of time before renting an audio critical title.

I consider what Redbox and the studio did a pure bait and switch. I paid the 50% premium for the Blu-Ray rental and didn't get what I paid for.

For all you guys who "only buy" because you're "collectors" giving us who do more rentals a bunch of attitude because we want our Blu-Rays to have more than black and white picture and mono sound - stick it. I do buy a fair number, but I have to decide if it's something I think I'll really watch over and over before I'll add it to my permanent library.