or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Software › NetFlix RedBox BD's Without DTS-HD Master Audio / DD 5.1 Instead
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

NetFlix RedBox BD's Without DTS-HD Master Audio / DD 5.1 Instead - Page 6

post #151 of 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRGINC View Post

I was under the impression, perhaps incorrectly, that the standard audio for BD was DTS with DD being optional or the alternate versus DD being audio standard and DTS being optional for DVD movies. I would like to hear from one of the rental companies for an explanation. In 2007 I replaced a very good Sony BD player for a Denon just to get HD audio.

BD doesn't really have any required audio track. It can be any of the following or any combination of them:

1. LPCM uncompressed tracks.
2. Dolby TureHD and/or Dolby Digital. If a disc contains TrueHD, a DD companion track is required for compatibility.
3. DTS or DTS-HD. If a disc contains DTS-HD, a DTS core is already part of it. So, no separate DTS track required.

#1 happens mainly on early releases during format wars. #3 currently is the most popular choice.
post #152 of 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

The studios are not happy with BD sales. They have not performed up to their expectations. So first they tried "the carrot" - BD Combos. That isn't working. Some have used "the stick" - 28 and 56 day rental embargos. That isn't working either. This lastest move is just another version of "the stick" but is aimed squarely at Videophiles because as has been noted, Joe Public couldn't care less about Lossless Audio, assuming he even knows what it is.

See that first part of what they tried was really a pretty stupid idea. I think most people buy BR's for the BR itself, not the DVD and digital copy and whatever else they decide to stick in there that they think might entice more people to buy the BR. I'm sure most people just buy the BR, so that they can have the BR. If the studios realize this idea wasn't working, they decide to keep sticking all that crap in there, and then punish those who rent as well by leaving out HD audio on their rentals. Eventually they'll just realize, just like they did with all their other bad ideas, that this new brilliant idea won't work as well. I mean if having all that extra crap didn't boost sales like they'd hope, why keep having it all in there. Get rid of all that extra crap, so that way they can lower the price, and then pass on the savings to the consumer. I'll more likely buy the BR that way than if it was still more money with all that extra stuff in there that I don't want.

If anything this latest fiasco I think might hurt the rental companies more so than boost the studios BR sales. In all reality it definitely won't accomplish anything positive for the studios or for the rental companies. I think more harm than good may come out of all this. tongue.gif

People are just too cheap in this day and age to buy a movie just so that they can get the HD version if they can't get it on a rental anymore. Who knows, maybe since it appears as though primarily only Cabin and also Hunger Games are the only ones without HD audio on their rental counterpart, maybe this was just a test to see how things pan out. Or so I hope.
post #153 of 915
Studios don't like rental companies like Netflix and Redbox to begin with. So, if it could hurt those two, they acomplished something.
post #154 of 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

I think it would be great to start a separate thread called, for example: "The Official List of Blu-ray Rental Discs With Lossy Audio (FACTS ONLY, PLEASE)".
In this thread, we could post our experience with rental BD titles with lossy versus lossless Audio. We could incorporate key facts like:
Source: Netflix, Redbox, Blockbuster Online, Blockbuster Store
Disc Type Printed on Disc: Rental or Retail
Geographical location: State? City and State? Over time, it may prove interesting to observe trends?
Audio Logo printed on the disc: DD TrueHD, DTS HD-MA, DD, DTS, Etc.
Actual Audio Track on Disc: DD or DTS (5.1 / 7.1)
Bit Rate: 640 or 448 Kbps
However, it would require some work to be productive, and there should be no discussion / debate about the issue. One thing I noticed about the Hunger Games, if I recall correctly, is that someone mentioned they rented it from their local Blockbuster, and it had lossless audio. The poster mentioned his local store bought retail versus rental copies. So, there will be some instances like that, but it would be awesome to incorporate all that data in the first post of the thread, or in a spreadsheet. For me, that would be useful, and then I can plan accordingly (rent, buy, or not watch) without spilling my feelings about the situation.
That is my $.02
Mark

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1431403/the-official-list-of-blu-ray-rental-discs-with-lossy-audio-facts-only-please

Had the idea as well thanks for the title. I created a Google Doc so hopefully everyone can help make it pretty.
post #155 of 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

See that first part of what they tried was really a pretty stupid idea. I think most people buy BR's for the BR itself, not the DVD and digital copy and whatever else they decide to stick in there that they think might entice more people to buy the BR. I'm sure most people just buy the BR, so that they can have the BR. If the studios realize this idea wasn't working, they decide to keep sticking all that crap in there, and then punish those who rent as well by leaving out HD audio on their rentals. Eventually they'll just realize, just like they did with all their other bad ideas, that this new brilliant idea won't work as well. I mean if having all that extra crap didn't boost sales like they'd hope, why keep having it all in there. Get rid of all that extra crap, so that way they can lower the price, and then pass on the savings to the consumer. I'll more likely buy the BR that way than if it was still more money with all that extra stuff in there that I don't want.
If anything this latest fiasco I think might hurt the rental companies more so than boost the studios BR sales. In all reality it definitely won't accomplish anything positive for the studios or for the rental companies. I think more harm than good may come out of all this. tongue.gif
People are just too cheap in this day and age to buy a movie just so that they can get the HD version if they can't get it on a rental anymore. Who knows, maybe since it appears as though primarily only Cabin and also Hunger Games are the only ones without HD audio on their rental counterpart, maybe this was just a test to see how things pan out. Or so I hope.

The studios do not control the final price a consumer pays. That is controlled by the retailers. They have a specified margin they want to make when they sell their product to wholesalers and retailers. They are not going to lower that price. That is not part of the mentality of Hollywood Studios.

When it comes to "the carrot" the studios seem to have a united front. Pretty much all are using BD Combos and all but Disney are using UltraViolet in an effort to boost BD sales.

But when it comes to "the stick" there is no united front at all. Some use rental embargos, some don't. Some use no extra features on the disc. Others don't. Now Lionsgate is trying to increase BD sales by having no HD Audio on rental copies.

It is very important to understand the mentality of Hollywood Studios. They don't give consumers what they want. They give consumers what they feel consumers should have.

My personal opinion on this matter of no HD Audio on two Lionsagte BD titles - a tempest in a teacup. Those that say they won't rent them will cave in. Whether they want to admit it publically is another matter.
post #156 of 915
Can anyone verify that Twilight also did not have HD Audio on rental copies? Or is that just a rumor?
post #157 of 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

The studios do not control the final price a consumer pays. That is controlled by the retailers. They have a specified margin they want to make when they sell their product to wholesalers and retailers. They are not going to lower that price. That is not part of the mentality of Hollywood Studios.
When it comes to "the carrot" the studios seem to have a united front. Pretty much all are using BD Combos and all but Disney are using UltraViolet in an effort to boost BD sales.
But when it comes to "the stick" there is no united front at all. Some use rental embargos, some don't. Some use no extra features on the disc. Others don't. Now Lionsgate is trying to increase BD sales by having no HD Audio on rental copies.
It is very important to understand the mentality of Hollywood Studios. They don't give consumers what they want. They give consumers what they feel consumers should have.
My personal opinion on this matter of no HD Audio on two Lionsagte BD titles - a tempest in a teacup. Those that say they won't rent them will cave in. Whether they want to admit it publically is another matter.

The pricing is controlled by the retailers, but as I suggested if the studios stopped adding in all that extra crap, then the retailers will be able to sell them at a lower price. I still don't understand why you have to have all that extra stuff when all I want in a BR purchase is a stupid BR. eek.gif Next thing you know, they'll start sticking Blu Ray's in the DVD version so that way they think they'll get more people to buy BR players, so that in turn will boost BR sales down the road. biggrin.gif

But yea I do agree with all your points. It's all just kind of silly is all.

Thanks setabs138 for starting up that thread. And also thanks to giomania for suggesting it as well. smile.gif
Edited by yadfgp - 9/27/12 at 6:14pm
post #158 of 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

still don't understand why you have to have all that extra stuff when all I want in a BR purchase is a stupid BR. eek.gif

I personally know friends that will only buy discs that come with extras. So, part of that is market driven.
post #159 of 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

The pricing is controlled by the retailers, but as I suggested if the studios stopped adding in all that extra crap, then the retailers will be able to sell them at a lower price. I still don't understand why you have to have all that extra stuff when all I want in a BR purchase is a stupid BR. eek.gif Next thing you know, they'll start sticking Blu Ray's in the DVD version LOL. biggrin.gif
But yea I do agree with all your points. It's all just kind of silly is all.

Hollywood decided that adding extra value . . . an enclosed DVD, Digital Copy and now UltraViolet, gives them the chance not only to maintain their pricing levels, but also to increase it.

BTW - they already did what you suggested - with the latest Pirates Of the Carribean movie. They had two Combo versions. One was clearly labeld BD Combo and was blue, the other was clearly labeled DVD Combo and included a BD and was Red:

http://www.amazon.com/Pirates-Caribbean-Stranger-Two-Disc-Packaging/dp/B004A8ZWUQ/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1348795179&sr=8-8&keywords=pirates+of+the+caribbean

http://www.amazon.com/Pirates-Caribbean-Stranger-Two-Disc-Packaging/dp/B0054K8O36/ref=sr_1_27?ie=UTF8&qid=1348795125&sr=8-27&keywords=pirates+of+the+caribbean
post #160 of 915
So basically, that's the Costco business model: you thought you saved a lot of money but in reality you spent more and get bouch of junks you normally won't buy or can't conume in timely fashion smile.gif
post #161 of 915
You know, if it weren't for rentals there are a lot of movies I would probably have never seen. I happily pay the $2.99 + tax at Blockbuster for 1 or 2 new releases each weekend. Thanks to rentals I've probably bought more BR titles than I ever would have too. If we're not going to get the full benefit of the HD experience from rentals anymore I won't stop renting them, I'll just wait a month or two until the rental price drops before even renting those new releases.
post #162 of 915
After thinking about this latest effort by Lionsgate to penalize BD renters by not offerring HD Audio, it got me to thinking. . . If this doesn't work . . . what will they try next?

1. Downgrade the resolution. Use 1280x720x24P - yes, that format is in the BD specs.

2. No more OAR for widescreen movies. All you get is zoomed 1.78 AR

3. A combination of both of the above.
post #163 of 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

After thinking about this latest effort by Lionsgate to penalize BD renters by not offerring HD Audio, it got me to thinking. . . If this doesn't work . . . what will they try next?

1. Downgrade the resolution. Use 1280x720x24P - yes, that format is in the BD specs.

2. No more OAR for widescreen movies. All you get is zoomed 1.78 AR

3. A combination of both of the above.

Yep, pretty soon it'll all be dumbed down for the idiots who watch movies on their damn phones listening on some tinny speakers or earbuds. Bleah.
post #164 of 915
Ok I read through this thread, but I'm still not sure what I'm missing.

I have The Avengers from Netflix right now, and it brings up DTS-MA on my receiver.

Is it just certain studios?

Or is it something that is just starting, and I'll see less and less netflix rentals with the HD tracks?

I looked at the bluray details for my next two movies and they say;

Battleship: Language and sound
English: Dolby Digital 5.1 French: Dolby Digital 5.1Spanish (Neutral): Dolby Digital 5.1English DVS: Dolby Digital 5.1

Snow White: Language and sound
English: Dolby Digital 7.1 Spanish (Neutral): Dolby Digital 5.1French: Dolby Digital 5.1English DVS: Dolby Digital 5.1


So it looks like these aren't the DTS-MA or Dolby TruHD, or am I reading that wrong?

Justin
post #165 of 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinHEMI05 View Post

Ok I read through this thread, but I'm still not sure what I'm missing.
I have The Avengers from Netflix right now, and it brings up DTS-MA on my receiver.
Is it just certain studios?
Or is it something that is just starting, and I'll see less and less netflix rentals with the HD tracks?
I looked at the bluray details for my next two movies and they say;
Battleship: Language and sound
English: Dolby Digital 5.1 French: Dolby Digital 5.1Spanish (Neutral): Dolby Digital 5.1English DVS: Dolby Digital 5.1
Snow White: Language and sound
English: Dolby Digital 7.1 Spanish (Neutral): Dolby Digital 5.1French: Dolby Digital 5.1English DVS: Dolby Digital 5.1
So it looks like these aren't the DTS-MA or Dolby TruHD, or am I reading that wrong?
Justin

Obviously you didn't read through the thread at all. All your questions have been answered many times throughout the thread.

1. Currently there are only two confirmed titles (both from Lionsgate) have this problem.
2. Netflix's information on website may not be accurate. Some already reported that Battleship comes with HD audio.
post #166 of 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinHEMI05 View Post

Ok I read through this thread, but I'm still not sure what I'm missing.
I have The Avengers from Netflix right now, and it brings up DTS-MA on my receiver.
Is it just certain studios?

At this time, it is just Lionsgate.
Quote:
Or is it something that is just starting, and I'll see less and less netflix rentals with the HD tracks?

Unknown if other studios will follow Lionsgate.
Quote:
I looked at the bluray details for my next two movies and they say;
Battleship: Language and sound
English: Dolby Digital 5.1 French: Dolby Digital 5.1Spanish (Neutral): Dolby Digital 5.1English DVS: Dolby Digital 5.1
Snow White: Language and sound
English: Dolby Digital 7.1 Spanish (Neutral): Dolby Digital 5.1French: Dolby Digital 5.1English DVS: Dolby Digital 5.1
So it looks like these aren't the DTS-MA or Dolby TruHD, or am I reading that wrong?
Justin

Battleship and Snow White . . are Universal. Both are now available for rent on BD and there have been no reports of no HD Audio on the BD rentals AFAIK.
post #167 of 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

1. Currently there are only two confirmed titles (both from Lionsgate) have this problem.

What about Twilight Breaking Dawn Part 1? I have been reading some other forums that claim the rental BDs have no HD Audio.

TBDP1 is a Summit title. Lionsgate bought Summit. If the above is true, then it was Summit who started the practice and Lionsgate is continuing it.
post #168 of 915
We need someone to confirm this. I also got The Grey early this year with DD 5.1 audio only. But I forgot to double check if it is a DVD by mistake. So, the Hunger Game and Cabin in the woods are the only two confirmed so far.
post #169 of 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

We need someone to confirm this. I also got The Grey early this year with DD 5.1 audio only. But I forgot to double check if it is a DVD by mistake. So, the Hunger Game and Cabin in the woods are the only two confirmed so far.

It looks like not only was it confirmed but also Reds had no HD audio on the rental BDs (Post #2981):

http://www.avsforum.com/t/977031/blockbuster-bd-rental-discussion-thread/2970

The Grey is a Universal BD release.
Edited by Lee Stewart - 9/28/12 at 6:38am
post #170 of 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Obviously you didn't read through the thread at all. All your questions have been answered many times throughout the thread.
1. Currently there are only two confirmed titles (both from Lionsgate) have this problem.
2. Netflix's information on website may not be accurate. Some already reported that Battleship comes with HD audio.

I did read the thread, but the information is disjointed and I simply wanted clarification of the major points of the thread, hence my question.

Thanks for your reply.

Justin
Edited by JustinHEMI05 - 9/28/12 at 8:02am
post #171 of 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

The pricing is controlled by the retailers, but as I suggested if the studios stopped adding in all that extra crap, then the retailers will be able to sell them at a lower price. I still don't understand why you have to have all that extra stuff when all I want in a BR purchase is a stupid BR. eek.gif Next thing you know, they'll start sticking Blu Ray's in the DVD version so that way they think they'll get more people to buy BR players, so that in turn will boost BR sales down the road. biggrin.gif
But yea I do agree with all your points. It's all just kind of silly is all.
Thanks setabs138 for starting up that thread. And also thanks to giomania for suggesting it as well. smile.gif
I think forfamily movies, the DVD copy is welcome because it allows parents to play the movie in places where they might not have a BD player, such as the minivan or grandma's house or even the kids play room where the player is a dirt cheap DVD model that won't break the bank if the kid puts a peanut butter sandwich in it.

For the latest action flicks, it's not so much a necessesary thing. People buy those for the big effects and explosions, so watching them on the main system is more likely.

I know I like having the option to get the DVD for certain movies because it's likely family members who don't have a BD player (and have no plans to get one) might wish to have me bring it over to watch. Plus, I can make my own "digital copies" for my portable devices from the DVD since there isn't yet an "all in one" solution for BDs like there is for DVD ripping.
post #172 of 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Plus, I can make my own "digital copies" for my portable devices from the DVD since there isn't yet an "all in one" solution for BDs like there is for DVD ripping.

Making your own digital copy from BD is now very easy as well. For exmaple, MakeMKV does a one stop conversion to full bit-rate MKV. From there, you can use other tools like HandBrake to make appropriate copies for your portable devices.

The only thing that is useless on the combo pack is digital copy because typically they only work for either PC or Apple devices. Nothing for Android devices other than UltraViolet copies.
post #173 of 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Making your own digital copy from BD is now very easy as well. For exmaple, MakeMKV does a one stop conversion to full bit-rate MKV. From there, you can use other tools like HandBrake to make appropriate copies for your portable devices.
The only thing that is useless on the combo pack is digital copy because typically they only work for either PC or Apple devices. Nothing for Android devices other than UltraViolet copies.

Just keep in mind, most Americans are not going to illegally rip movies to make a backup copy. That is why the DVD/DC comes in handy. We went on a vacation recently, and I grabbed a bunch of movies for my kids for the portable DVD player. I also used the DC's to put a half dozen movies on my iPad. Lack of Android support is ridiculous, but UV does fix that.
post #174 of 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Making your own digital copy from BD is now very easy as well. For exmaple, MakeMKV does a one stop conversion to full bit-rate MKV. From there, you can use other tools like HandBrake to make appropriate copies for your portable devices.
The only thing that is useless on the combo pack is digital copy because typically they only work for either PC or Apple devices. Nothing for Android devices other than UltraViolet copies.
I did specifically say "all in one solution". Further, I'm on a PC so Handbrake is out and I hear that's one of the more painless ones. The PC solutions often lack a lot of...shall we say...finess...

I personally hate the digital copies because of the time limit on aquiring them and it being on me to safely store my copy with a backup so a hard drive crash doesn't screw me. Also, making my own means I can choose the exact quality I want for the device I plan to view it on. Plus, like you alluded to, I can make them OS independent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Just keep in mind, most Americans are not going to illegally rip movies to make a backup copy. That is why the DVD/DC comes in handy. We went on a vacation recently, and I grabbed a bunch of movies for my kids for the portable DVD player. I also used the DC's to put a half dozen movies on my iPad. Lack of Android support is ridiculous, but UV does fix that.
Copying a movie you legally purchased is for your own personal use not illegal. The "illegal" part stems from using software that uses a decryption key that was not properly obtained, such as "borrowing" one from the DVD playback software on your computer. That stems from the DMCA rules. In short, it's the method of decryption that makes it "illegal", but is something that would not likely have the FBI knocking on your door. The software act essentially trumps that with the right to backup software for personal use. DVDs and BDs are considered software.

Now, if you distribute that copy to a bunch of people - or sell it to anyone at all, that would be illegal. Further, copying a movie you don't own a legal copy of would also be illegal.

Further, breaking encryption to view or obtain content you haven't obtained the proper rights to view, would also be illegal. So, hacking Netflix's streaming service to download their movies to a local system would be considered a crime.
Edited by NetworkTV - 9/28/12 at 8:53am
post #175 of 915
Thread Starter 
I ran into a friend yesterday that is a honcho at one of the remaining B&M chains and quized him on his thoughts ..

1) Studios have flirted with adding actual commercials to rental copies ..
2) He stressed that many consumers don't realize that the dumping of disk copies on the open market after the rental has run it's course waters down the ability of studios to sell retail copies and felt that had something to do with Lionsgate trying this in an attempt to maintain the value of full retail versions
3) He felt like there is a license cost for the use of DTS but did not know the details (I don't know about that myself)
4) Saw it as a non-issue due to DVD still being the top rental format by far


any that would like to take a look at BD stats .. link


http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/Stats.php
post #176 of 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

I ran into a friend yesterday that is a honcho at one of the remaining B&M chains and quized him on his thoughts ..
1) Studios have flirted with adding actual commercials to rental copies ..
2) He stressed that many consumers don't realize that the dumping of disk copies on the open market after the rental has run it's course waters down the ability of studios to sell retail copies and felt that had something to do with Lionsgate trying this in an attempt to maintain the value of full retail versions
3) He felt like there is a license cost for the use of DTS but did not know the details (I don't know about that myself)
4) Saw it as a non-issue due to DVD still being the top rental format by far
any that would like to take a look at BD stats .. link
http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/Stats.php

As far as number 1, I considered "trailers" for video games to be an adertisment as is the "Blu-ray is awesome" ad they put on discs. Thos are not promoting movies and instead are enticing you to buy a seperate product (i.e., a Blu-ray player or a game). So, they're already almost there. If actual ads appear for, say, Coca-Cola, the best solution is to complain to the company doing the advertsing and let them know you will not buy their product if they advertise on movie discs.

Regarding number 2, that's another reason the "rental copy" was created: to prevent resale by rental outfits. Netflix, as part of their contract, is prohibited from reselling discs - which is something they used to do. Blockbuster is due for a new contracts with several studios, so it's likely they'll get the same treatment if they wish to buy from the studios as opposed to going out and getting retail versions. In addition to reducing the number of used copies on the market, it makes used copies less appealing by being more restricted or stripped down.

Number 3: I'm not sure, either. If there is an extra cost, it would also be a matter of how much extra.

Number 4: It's a non-issue for most, but one could make the case it could hurt credibility with the high end user who spends more money than average on media. It may prompt them to not buy just to spite the studios.
post #177 of 915
Yes, ripping a BD or DVD you own is not illegal as posted above. I have nothing but bad luck to get a digital copy to work on my PC. I don't own any iDevices and hate iTune software on PCs. So there is zero chance for me to use any of those included digital copy. Studios should just stop waste their effort and money on that, IMO. I agree DVDs does still have its place especially on automobiles where DVD is still the only option.

Handbrake on PC is ok. Not very intuitive to use (none of them are anyway). But once you get it done once and saved your profile, it is kind of no-brainer later on. I have an Android tablet and Andriod phone, so that' my only way to watch DC.
post #178 of 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Number 3: I'm not sure, either. If there is an extra cost, it would also be a matter of how much extra.

I think both Dolby Labs and DTS charge a license fee for creating the encoded tracks. So in current case, Studios actually have to pay one license fee for creating DTS-HD MA track on retail track and pay another one for DD track (or simply use the one from DVD, you never know where they cut the corner).
post #179 of 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

I think both Dolby Labs and DTS charge a license fee for creating the encoded tracks. So in current case, Studios actually have to pay one license fee for creating DTS-HD MA track on retail track and pay another one for DD track (or simply use the one from DVD, you never know where they cut the corner).

Both Dolby and DTS charge the CEMs (the makers of the equipment - players, AVRs, etc) the license fees for their codecs. It is a per unit fee. There are no royalties/fees paid on the BD or DVD discs themselves. Nor do they charge license fees for authoring which is what you are saying, which is incorrect.
post #180 of 915
hello guys, i always rent at redbox kiosk movies. is it true the HD movies in redbox doesnt give good quality sound? compare to HD movies in stores like bestbuy.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Blu-ray Software
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Software › NetFlix RedBox BD's Without DTS-HD Master Audio / DD 5.1 Instead