or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Software › NetFlix RedBox BD's Without DTS-HD Master Audio / DD 5.1 Instead
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

NetFlix RedBox BD's Without DTS-HD Master Audio / DD 5.1 Instead - Page 8

post #211 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

I don't disagree with what you are saying. I just think it's a slap in the face to the Videophile segment of the market . . . you know . . . the ones that got BD started on it's road to mass market status. Without them, there would be no HD Physical Media Market (READ: Higher margin product).

They did *not* get it started with rentals.

Purchases make the money, and there's no issue with HD Audio on retail versions now, is there?
post #212 of 933
But your choosing to not own and only keep it for a viewing or 2. This thread makes me laugh quite a bit and nobody here has brought up the real issue why this is going on and think its being done to slight them which is laughable. The studios have had their movie sales decline due to redbox and are doing what they can to give them an inferior product(yet still a nearly comparable product that 95-99% of the viewers will never notice). If the people in this thread so crave the features not on the disks nothing is holding them back from purchasing them or going to a b&m rental location that will have normal copies. If a few dollars is to much to ask then enjoy nearly identical redbox copy even though some claim its very important to them the quality of the audio.. If it was the copy so no money is lost by the studios. so important pony up the extra cash do something about it. . If that money is to much to ask for those features you were never going to purchase and just choose to want to cry that even though they are getting a fantastic deal on the movie for a rental its not perfect so boo hoo. . And now some here are saying those greedy studios.. Like those movies make themselves.. It is a business that is designed to make money and many times their product does not turn a profit. I wonder if some here can only think of themselves like where they work and produce something trying to get a profit on what their company sells.. Ever think that who is buying that product thinks they are being gouged even though it pays the employees who works there's bills and not a whole lot more?

Again nobody is forcing you to rent from redbox and take a chance at getting a slightly leser quality audio.. That is your choice and you are saving money by renting there. By the way do some due diligence between the studios and redbox and you will see how well they get along.
Edited by padnfain - 9/29/12 at 8:24pm
post #213 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

They did *not* get it started with rentals.
Purchases make the money, and there's no issue with HD Audio on retail versions now, is there?

Nope the retail versions are fine.. I remember when I got my first dvd player and you had to purchase any disk to watch it.. bluray was the same way.. The formats did not take off form rentals only till it hit mass market did rentals take foot. So that argument makes no sense to me either.
post #214 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

They did *not* get it started with rentals.
Purchases make the money, and there's no issue with HD Audio on retail versions now, is there?

We are not discussing purchases. We are discussing rentals. That's what the topic is of this thread. This action by Lionsgate is just the lastest one in the war between the studios and consumers in the studios effort to try to force consumers into buying instead of renting.

First it was 28 day embargos. Then it was no special features. Then a 56 day embargo. Now it's no HD audio on BD rentals. But here's the point I am making. The first 3 affect the entire market. The last one only affects Videophiles because it is only Videophiles who have HD audio setups.

So why are studios escalating this war? Because OD sales keep dropping in double digits each year.

The studios have offerred a lot of incentives to consumers to get them to buy BDs. They offer Combo packs. They offer 3D. They offer UltraViolet. But it isn't working. They are not getting the results they want.

And once again, I pose the question . . . what's next? Because IMO, there is going to be a "next." It's just a question of which will it affect . . . a micro market or the entire market?.
post #215 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

With many large home video companies offloading their catalog product to 3rd parties how could you think that they're swimming in money?

Offloading catalog titles to 3rd party distributors is just another symptom of the failure of BD to take hold with mass market consumers, especially when it comes to them rebuyinig their existing libraries in the BD format.
post #216 of 933
Take your head out of if.. Its not vs the consumer its vs the kiosk rental model is what they are going after which is cutting into their margins and devaluing their products. If you require the better sound then spend a dollar more and goto blockbuster and rent it there or other b&m locations. Otherwise its wanting everything at the lowest price which isnt realistic there are tiers with many things and its now finding its way to this. This will effect nothing other than the fringe of the already small group that has good audio systems making unfounded comments. Everyone I know who has a good av system buys discs. The people who rent tend to be those that use the tv speakers or soundbar which is 95% of the market so pony up a few extra dollars for a better product or enjoy the savings.
post #217 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Offloading catalog titles to 3rd party distributors is just another symptom of the failure of BD to take hold with mass market consumers, especially when it comes to them rebuyinig their existing libraries in the BD format.

The offloading of titles happened with dvd's as well.. You don't understand your own argument. Still many titles that have yet to even show up on dvd.
post #218 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by padnfain View Post

Take your head out of if.. Its not vs the consumer its vs the kiosk rental model is what they are going after which is cutting into their margins and devaluing their products. If you require the better sound then spend a dollar more and goto blockbuster and rent it there or other b&m locations.

Been living in a cave have you? Many don't have a BBi or B&M video store near them any more. That market is literally dying. That segment of the home video revenue market took the biggest hit in 2011, down 28.82%. And guess which sgemnt had the greatest growth? That's right - Kiosk, up 31.06%
Quote:
Otherwise its wanting everything at the lowest price which isnt realistic there are tiers with many things and its now finding its way to this. This will effect nothing other than the fringe of the already small group that has good audio systems making unfounded comments. Everyone I know who has a good av system buys discs. The people who rent tend to be those that use the tv speakers or soundbar which is 95% of the market so pony up a few extra dollars for a better product or enjoy the savings.

I don't know where you are getting your information from as to the demographics of buyers and renters and what kind of equipment they have. Have a link or are you just trying to offer your own opinion as some kind of reference?

A few extra dollars? Is that what you call the difference between $2 and $20? rolleyes.gif
Edited by Lee Stewart - 9/29/12 at 9:12pm
post #219 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by padnfain View Post

The offloading of titles happened with dvd's as well.. You don't understand your own argument. Still many titles that have yet to even show up on dvd.

That was for a different reason. I understand my argument very well. You have yet to offer any kind of a rebuttal that makes any sense. And studios are now escalating their MOD DVD programs. Those titles that haven't showed up yet on DVD are usually stuck in all kinds of rights issues.
post #220 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by padnfain View Post

Nope the retail versions are fine.. I remember when I got my first dvd player and you had to purchase any disk to watch it.. bluray was the same way.. The formats did not take off form rentals only till it hit mass market did rentals take foot. So that argument makes no sense to me either.

Netflix will support both HD-DVD and Blu-ray formats
Quote:
Tuesday, January 24, 2006

As predicted, Netflix will support both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. They never really had to choose which format to support, did they? They will rent whatever the studios and filmmakers make available and whatever subscribers want.

http://netflixfan.blogspot.com/2006/01/netflix-will-support-both-hd-dvd-and.html

Another article - same topic:

http://www.techspot.com/news/20232-netflix-to-support-hd-dvd-and-bluray-concurrently.html
post #221 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

Not only all that Lee... But seriously... How many more millions upon millions of dollars of profit do the studios really need to make? It's like the big banks all over again but in the blu ray market. biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

With many large home video companies offloading their catalog product to 3rd parties how could you think that they're swimming in money?

How could I NOT think they're swimming in money?!? redface.gif I'm talking about the studios here as I mentioned earlier.

The 2 biggest offenders so far of leaving off HD audio on their rental blu rays both did pretty well in the box office. Or at least I had thought.....?

The Cabin In The Woods...

Budget
$30,000,000 (estimated)

Gross:
$65,902,967 (Worldwide) (16 August 2012)




That movie alone did more than double it's revenue just in theaters!

And the other major offender, Hunger Games, last I checked, didn't that movie have a pretty good box office run too?!!?

The Hunger Games...

Budget:
$78,000,000 (estimated)

Gross:
$672,826,249 (Worldwide) (30 June 2012)


You really think that Lionsgate didn't make enough money on those 2 movies just in ticket sales alone? Like I said how many more millions upon millions do they really need to make?
post #222 of 933
People are missing the forest for the trees on this move by the studios. The number of renters really upset they are losing lossless audio on rentals are mostly confined to this thread, which isn't setting the world on fire. This move was targeted at making the used rental BDs much less attractive options on the secondary market. The sale values for many new releases were getting decimated by the availability of cheap, used rental BDs flooding the market a couple of months after release. I know I have no interest in buying used rental discs without lossless audio.
post #223 of 933
And you think all that money went solely to the studio as pure profit? Even though a movie made money it still needs to support the studio which isnt built into the cost of making the film. More films lose money than make money. Look at some of the studios financial statements and you will understand they are not so flush with cash as you think they are.
post #224 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

How could I NOT think they're swimming in money?!? redface.gif I'm talking about the studios here as I mentioned earlier.
The 2 biggest offenders so far of leaving off HD audio on their rental blu rays both did pretty well in the box office. Or at least I had thought.....?
The Cabin In The Woods...
Budget
$30,000,000 (estimated)
Gross:
$65,902,967 (Worldwide) (16 August 2012)

That movie alone did more than double it's revenue just in theaters!
And the other major offender, Hunger Games, last I checked, didn't that movie have a pretty good box office run too?!!?
The Hunger Games...
Budget:
$78,000,000 (estimated)
Gross:
$672,826,249 (Worldwide) (30 June 2012)

You really think that Lionsgate didn't make enough money on those 2 movies just in ticket sales alone? Like I said how many more millions upon millions do they really need to make?

Don't forget to add the OD sales (as of week ending 9/16/12) for The Hunger Games:

DVD = $96,963,197

http://www.the-numbers.com/dvd/charts/weekly/thisweek.php

BD = $79,625,193

http://www.the-numbers.com/weekly-bluray-sales-chart
post #225 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

People are missing the forest for the trees on this move by the studios. The number of renters really upset they are losing lossless audio on rentals are mostly confined to this thread, which isn't setting the world on fire. This move was targeted at making the used rental BDs much less attractive options on the secondary market. The sale values for many new releases were getting decimated by the availability of cheap, used rental BDs flooding the market a couple of months after release. I know I have no interest in buying used rental discs without lossless audio.

Both Rebox and Netflix have a "will destroy rental discs after use" clause in their contracts with the studios/wholesalers. So who is feeding this "used rental BD market" you speak of? Blockbuster? Aren't they supposedly getting retail versions and not special rental with no HD audio BDs?
post #226 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Been living in a cave have you? Many don't have a BBi or B&M video store near them any more. That market is literally dying. That segment of the home video revenue market took the biggest hit in 2011, down 28.82%. And guess which sgemnt had the greatest growth? That's right - Kiosk, up 31.06%
I don't know where you are getting your information from as to the demographics of buyers and renters and what kind of equipment they have. Have a link or are you just trying to offer your own opinion as some kind of reference?
A few extra dollars? Is that what you call the difference between $2 and $20? rolleyes.gif

That point about the kiosk growth just goes to my point and shows you didnt understand my point about the studios going after the kiosk format or choose to ignore it. The kisok format is materially harming the sales of movies and the studios know it and are trying to do something about it. And yes there are still b&m rental places out there but you are fixed on the kiosk and dont see them around anymore. It just not in the same quantity of locations which was bound to happen. Either way renting from a b&m is a few bucks.. Nowhere did I say buy them. Either way you can buy used movies or months after release for far less than the 20 you jumped to.
post #227 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by padnfain View Post

And you think all that money went solely to the studio as pure profit? Even though a movie made money it still needs to support the studio which isnt built into the cost of making the film. More films lose money than make money. Look at some of the studios financial statements and you will understand they are not so flush with cash as you think they are.

Entertainment Stocks Outperform Broader Markets Through Three Quarters

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/entertainment-stocks-outperform-broader-markets-375093

Disney, News Corp. Stocks Hit 52-Week Highs

http://edit.hollywoodreporter.com/news/disney-news-corp-stocks-hit-368650
post #228 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Don't forget to add the OD sales (as of week ending 9/16/12) for The Hunger Games:
DVD = $96,963,197
http://www.the-numbers.com/dvd/charts/weekly/thisweek.php
BD = $79,625,193
http://www.the-numbers.com/weekly-bluray-sales-chart

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/30/news/la-lions-gate-earnings-20120530

http://financials.morningstar.com/income-statement/is.html?t=LGF&region=USA&culture=en-us


really disney? that was on the back of their cable channels(espn) and theme parks and catalog sales that they protect from all comers.. Educate yourself where disneys growing revenue streams are outside of movies it wasn't because of john carter lol.. show one that is a little less diversified.. Since someone here thinks that a pure studio is flush with money look at the earnings from lionsgate and you will understand that its not flush with all this cash you think they have.
Edited by padnfain - 9/29/12 at 10:12pm
post #229 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Both Rebox and Netflix have a "will destroy rental discs after use" clause in their contracts with the studios/wholesalers. So who is feeding this "used rental BD market" you speak of? Blockbuster? Aren't they supposedly getting retail versions and not special rental with no HD audio BDs?
Redbox must not have that deal with all of the studios, because there are used BDs for sale in boxes all over Vegas. I recently purchased 21 Jump Street, Underworld Awakening and The Raid for $5 each. So they're apparently able to sell Sony titles.
Edited by Steeb - 9/29/12 at 10:06pm
post #230 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by padnfain View Post

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/30/news/la-lions-gate-earnings-20120530
http://financials.morningstar.com/income-statement/is.html?t=LGF&region=USA&culture=en-us
really disney? that was on the back of their cable channels(espn) and theme parks and catalog sales that they protect from all comers.. it wasnt becase of cars 2 lol.. show one that is a little less diversified..

That link for Lionsgate that you posted has nothing to do with their box office sales. It's invalid in your argument. You should actually read what you post before you post it. Please post links that actually pertain to the topic at hand.
post #231 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by padnfain View Post

That point about the kiosk growth just goes to my point and shows you didnt understand my point about the studios going after the kiosk format or choose to ignore it. The kisok format is materially harming the sales of movies and the studios know it and are trying to do something about it.

No - they are going after consumers. Redbox is protected by the First Sale Doctrine. There is nothing the studios can do about that. Just ask WB. They wanted a 56 day embargo in their new contract with Rebox - Redbox refused. So now Redbox is buying WB titles at retail and has no contract with WB as the old contract expired. Now you can ent a WB title from Redbox - you can get it on street date. Try to rent the same title from Netflix - you have to wait 56 days because Netflix agreed to WBs terms.
Quote:
And yes there are still b&m rental places out there but you are fixed on the kiosk and dont see them around anymore. It just not in the same quantity of locations which was bound to happen. Either way renting from a b&m is a few bucks.. Nowhere did I say buy them. Either way you can buy used movies or months after release for far less than the 20 you jumped to.

Again, that's if you have a video store near you. And why would I buy a movie that I only want to watch once? I used that $20 because on release day, that's usually what new BDs cost, just like they usually cost $2 (day) from Redbox. Buying movies has already been proven as an impulse buy. Almost 80% of a titles's entire revenue is generated in the first 30 days of release.
post #232 of 933
It has everything to do with the lionsgates profitability meaning one movie doesn't make them a successful company. Lionsgate is a production company and there are expenses that are not tied into the movie that the studio expends. Read the financial statment.. again if you dont understand lgf is a production company and how that shows a few successes doesn't make them gouging.. learn to read some financial statements.
post #233 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by padnfain View Post

It has everything to do with the lionsgates profitability meaning one movie doesn't make them a successful company. Lionsgate is a production company and there are expenses that are not tied into the movie that the studio expends. Read the financial statment.. again if you dont understand lgf is a production company and how that shows a few successes doesn't make them gouging.. learn to read some financial statements.

Like he said - you should have read the entire article:

The Santa Monica studio on Wednesday disappointed Wall Street as it reported a net loss of $22.7 million on revenue of $645.2 million in revenue during the quarter ended March 31.

The reason: $51 million in expenses related to its purchase of "Twilight" studio Summit Entertainment, as well as $53 million in costs to launch the blockbuster hit "The Hunger Games"at the end of the quarter.

Lions Gate shares fell 7% in after-hours trading Wednesday, as the results were far below analysts' estimates. They had expected on average net income of 25 cents per share. Instead, the company lost 17 cents.

Lions Gate has yet to report most of the revenue and profits it will receive from "Hunger Games," which was released March 23 and went on to make $396 million in domestic ticket sales. However, it had to immediately account for the cost of advertisements and thousands of film prints.


http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-lions-gate-earnings-20120530,0,6996281.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+entertainment%2Fbusiness+%28Company+Town%29
post #234 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

I don't disagree with what you are saying. I just think it's a slap in the face to the Videophile segment of the market . . . you know . . . the ones that got BD started on it's road to mass market status. Without them, there would be no HD Physical Media Market (READ: Higher margin product).

I think you vastly overestimate the number of people buying Blu-Ray discs that have true 7.1 sound systems capable of taking advantage superior sound that rent at Redbox.
post #235 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeb View Post

Redbox must not have that deal with all of the studios, because there are used BDs for sale in boxes all over Vegas. I recently purchased 21 Jump Street, Underworld Awakening and The Raid for $5 each. So they're apparently able to sell Sony titles.

And Redbox no longer has a deal with Warner either. So they would be free and clear to sell used Warmer movies.
post #236 of 933
sorry im done replying to a wall that wants everything for the base price thinking somehow they deserve/entitled to it because they want it that way. this thread just makes me feel bad for some people who cant comprehend how business operate in a capitalistic society. This whole thread is full of whiners.. Again if the audio was so important to you the expenditure of a few extra dollars to get it would make sense, but wanting everything at the cheapest price and not getting it so crying about it is fairly sad. Again enjoy the saving and deal with the slightly less audio on only a few movies while the majority offer it. The whole thread is just coming off as one of the most self entitled spoiled threads ive ever read.

look at the morningstar financials..
post #237 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I think you vastly overestimate the number of people buying Blu-Ray discs that have true 7.1 sound systems capable of taking advantage superior sound that rent at Redbox.

So all owners of HD audio systems have a 7.1 setup?. None have a 5.1 setup?

You are missing the point Ack. It doesn't make a difference in the number of people. It is the actions of Lionsgate trying to penalize renters of their two lastest movies on BD.
post #238 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by padnfain View Post

sorry im done replying to a wall that wants everything for the base price thinking somehow they deserve/entitled to it because they want it that way. this thread just makes me feel bad for some people who cant comprehend how business operate in a capitalistic society. This whole thread is full of whiners.. Again if the audio was so important to you the expenditure of a few extra dollars to get it would make sense, but wanting everything at the cheapest price and not getting it so crying about it is fairly sad. Again enjoy the saving and deal with the slightly less audio on only a few movies while the majority offer it. The whole thread is just coming off as one of the most self entitled spoiled threads ive ever read.

This diatribe from you is a product of you not seeing the big picture. That is evidently clear.
Edited by Lee Stewart - 9/29/12 at 10:54pm
post #239 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by padnfain View Post

look at the morningstar financials..

Why do movies cost so much to make?
Quote:
Before we break down movie budgets, we should emphasize that Hollywood accounting is fishy at best. Studio heads always low-ball the cost of their movies to make them appear more profitable while inside sources cite exorbitant unreported costs. The safe bet? Assume everyone is lying [source: Goldstein]

http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/movie-cost1.htm
post #240 of 933
no, its frustration for your lack of understanding and willingness to see reality.. I was in audio sales for a good period of time and the majority of people out there are using tv speakers even compared to htib's. those are not just my observations regardless of what you may think.. the amount of people with receiver speaker setups is such a small amount in 5.1/7.1 configurations.. Those that have them typically buy movies not rent. You are in the minority of an already small minority of having a dedicated home theater and with those with a dedicated theater who rent while never buying anything. The other poster had it correct you overestimate severely the amount of people who build a dedicated system then rent movies. And again the studios know the kiosk format is hurting their product so the will do what they can to hurt the kiosk format. Its just the way it will be now they are starting to make tiers for renting/buying.

so now your saying they are fudging their financials which are accountable to shareholders.. wink wink.. yeah wake up man
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Blu-ray Software
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Software › NetFlix RedBox BD's Without DTS-HD Master Audio / DD 5.1 Instead