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NetFlix RedBox BD's Without DTS-HD Master Audio / DD 5.1 Instead - Page 2

post #31 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

A year ago, concerns about my rental BD discs will come with worthless DD 5.1 audio does not exist.
The fact that you claim 640Kbps DD is worthless says all I need to know about your level of knowledge when it comes to these things. What a joke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 
You would told me the same thing if I posted then. The fact is you have no idea how the minds of the movie studios work and continue to post your worthless personal attacks. Movie studio and game studio have a lot in common, they'd like you to pay them each time you play their movie or games. In case of EA games, you can pay additional $10 for another key after you bought the used game disc. Movie studio can do the same if it is technically possibile. They can use BDLive features to ask you register with them in order to view certain extras on the disc.
But you see, it's not possible because there's no way to force people to use (or even turn on) BD-Live on their players. And of course, there are still plenty of players out there that couldn't connect to the internet even if the owners wanted them to.

But none of this will stop you from spreading mindless FUD, will it? Of course not, which is why I'm bowing out of this pointless back and forth. Feel free to wallow in your ignorance and over-inflated sense of entitlement.
post #32 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

The problem is, the main appeal of phyiscal media is owning it - knowing it can't be taken away and will be there whenever you want to watch it.
If all you ever do is rent, you're essentially setting yourself up of a similar situation as streaming, where that disc may go out of print, then be unavailable when it gets damaged later.

If a movie worth to watch more than once, I may buy it. But it is extremely rare. On the other hand, I have rent same disc multiple times in the past. Not owning it is not a problem.
I used to buy 20+ movies a year. Now about 1 or 2 movies a year.
Quote:
Further, to say "anything less isn't worth my money is bunk". You aren't giving the studios any money. You've maybe paid a buck or two to view the movie like some library book. You're not laying out any real
cost. You want a full sundae for the cost of the taste test scoop in a cup. You're paying for the ability to rent movies, not for the copies of the movies themselves. "Your money's worth" comes down to how many rentals you get for your monthly fee, not in what features a disc contains.
A rental disc can be rented many many times, over the time could well over what studio get from a retail disc which they only get money once. Rental discs are not necessary cost the same as retail discs because of the different licensing agreement. Besides, I rent movies otherwise I won't ever watch or buy. So it is really extra money for studios.
The whole idea of stripping down the rental disc is to force those of us minorities who still prefer rent to buy. Studios spent extra cost to prepare a different rental disc and wish to recover it from increased sales on retail discs. If I and a few others (remember these are minorities as OP hinted) stick to their rental plan and refuse to buy. Sooner or later Studios will find it is really not cost effective to continue doing so. One can certainly dream, right smile.gif
post #33 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeb View Post

The fact that you claim 640Kbps DD is worthless says all I need to know about your level of knowledge when it comes to these things. What a joke.

Sure, no one can tell a difference between DTS-HD MA 7.1 track on the retail disc and DD 5.1 track on The Hunger Game rental disc.
post #34 of 933
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Sure, no one can tell a difference between DTS-HD MA 7.1 track on the retail disc and DD 5.1 track on The Hunger Game rental disc.

Truth is, the HD soundtrack was pretty lackluster on that one ..
post #35 of 933
Thread Starter 
I don't think a rental disc costs more for a studio .. there is no fancy package, they ship in bulk, the soundmix is a non-issue as films are generally mixed down in multi formats anyway ..

I see it as the rental only copy being the Generic where the full version is the name brand ..

What's the take on Battleship .. ?? Watched BD last night from NF .. clearly a rental disc and even had the disclaimer at the opening ..
post #36 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

Truth is, the HD soundtrack was pretty lackluster on that one ..

That's not the point of this debate. I could take from DTS-HD MA 5.1 to DTS 5.1. But from DTS-HD MA 7.1 to DD 5.1 is a big change and studio isn't going to make sure the DD 5.1 mix sounds as good as the HD audio track. That would defeat the purpose of it.
post #37 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

I don't think a rental disc costs more for a studio .. there is no fancy package, they ship in bulk, the soundmix is a non-issue as films are generally mixed down in multi formats anyway ..
I see it as the rental only copy being the Generic where the full version is the name brand ..
What's the take on Battleship .. ?? Watched BD last night from NF .. clearly a rental disc and even had the disclaimer at the opening ..

Yes, they save on packaging. But those cost next to nothing thanks to cheap Chinese labor. They have to pay someone in studio to make a different mix ($$$) and open a different production run at factory just for rental discs.

Unfortunately, I messed up my disc return schedule (a day too early) so now Battleship is in long waiting frown.gif
post #38 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Yes, they save on packaging. But those cost next to nothing thanks to cheap Chinese labor. They have to pay someone in studio to make a different mix ($$$) and open a different production run at factory just for rental discs.
Unfortunately, I messed up my disc return schedule (a day too early) so now Battleship is in long waiting frown.gif

In the case of films that have TrueHD audio on their retail releases, they could always use just the 640kbps Dolby Digital "core" on the rental versions without needing any additional work.
post #39 of 933
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

That's not the point of this debate. I could take from DTS-HD MA 5.1 to DTS 5.1. But from DTS-HD MA 7.1 to DD 5.1 is a big change and studio isn't going to make sure the DD 5.1 mix sounds as good as the HD audio track. That would defeat the purpose of it.

you said "Sure, no one can tell a difference between DTS-HD MA 7.1 track on the retail disc and DD 5.1 track on The Hunger Game rental disc."

I assume you meant that to be sarcastic ..
post #40 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenge View Post

In the case of films that have TrueHD audio on their retail releases, they could always use just the 640kbps Dolby Digital "core" on the rental versions without needing any additional work.

Sure. But discs with TrueHD is very rare. And recent discs that come with TrueHD all seems to have TrueHD 7.1. So you still get downmixed rears.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

you said "Sure, no one can tell a difference between DTS-HD MA 7.1 track on the retail disc and DD 5.1 track on The Hunger Game rental disc."
I assume you meant that to be sarcastic ..

Of course.
post #41 of 933
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Yes, they save on packaging. But those cost next to nothing thanks to cheap Chinese labor. They have to pay someone in studio to make a different mix ($$$) and open a different production run at factory just for rental discs.
Unfortunately, I messed up my disc return schedule (a day too early) so now Battleship is in long waiting frown.gif

There are multiple mixes done on most films .. so there really is no additional cost ..

Making a run of disks is no big deal as well .. it's all pretty much automated ..

My point is, studios are not going out of their way to create additional work and spend more money just so we can have a DD instead of an HD soundtrack .. they are using the HD soundtrack on retail versions as a concept known as "added value" .. hoping it will help sell more discs .. it's really simple as that ..

As consumers, we all have the freedom to choose ..
post #42 of 933
They have to author a different disc using the different sound mix. Yes, factory runs is automated but doesn't mean it doesn't cost extra. We all know what their purpose is and just saying that I'm not going to buy. And I won't blame Netflix either (although it would be nice they drop that $3 bogus surcharge). Netflix would like to drop whole disc rental business for a while now. If Netflix drops rental, I'm not sure where I'm going to get my movies next.
post #43 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

There are multiple mixes done on most films .. so there really is no additional cost ..
Making a run of disks is no big deal as well .. it's all pretty much automated ..
My point is, studios are not going out of their way to create additional work and spend more money just so we can have a DD instead of an HD soundtrack .. they are using the HD soundtrack on retail versions as a concept known as "added value" .. hoping it will help sell more discs .. it's really simple as that ..
As consumers, we all have the freedom to choose ..

Freedom to choose is right. I'm personally not a Netflix user but rather Redbox but still a rental format. And I choose to no longer rent BD's at a premium price if I'm not getting "premium value". The BD's are supposed to have superior picture and sound. If they don't then they shouldn't charge the premium price. It's not the fact that it's "so much more expensive" it's the principle. It's not right, dare I say, even wrong because they don't even tell you this is the case. it takes one of us to rent it, pop it in and go through the process of trying to figure out why our DTS (or whichever) lights are on our receivers only to find out that the encoding is different.

I for one am tired of companies taking advantage of consumers. They give you an inferior product for a premium price. And when banks tried to impose debit transaction fees they passed it on to the consumer but when the government said banks couldn't do it they never adjusted their fees back down. If they said these movies have standard DVD sound and charged a standard DVD rental price then I'm good with it. I'll choose to rent, buy or pass.
post #44 of 933
Bottom line for me, as long at Netflix charges me extra for BluRay, which is an outdated silly premise since there is not the same price premium there used to be with BD over DVD, they better give me all the features. They want to take that silly fee away, they can get by with neutered versions.

At the very least its a truth in labeling problem and they will eventually attract unwanted scrutiny.
post #45 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Huh? If I know that theater has a crappy setup, I simply not going there. Period.
I get charged extra for BD rental and get delivered half of the goods. I don't care about any of the extras but expect the disc come with both HD video and audio. I guess your logic demands us renters only get 720p video as well ?

+1
post #46 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post

Bottom line for me, as long at Netflix charges me extra for BluRay, which is an outdated silly premise since there is not the same price premium there used to be with BD over DVD, they better give me all the features. They want to take that silly fee away, they can get by with neutered versions.
At the very least its a truth in labeling problem and they will eventually attract unwanted scrutiny.

Keep in mind that Netflix has to buy both DVD AND BD for each title, so there is certainly a cost issue with BD. I'd wager that most of their renters do not use BD. Not defending Netflix, I'm jes sayin. When more renters are asking for BD than DVD, then we can gripe about the fee.

But yet again it needs to be pointed out that Netflix does not decide what's on the disc, the studio does. Netflix is contractually required to take what they are given by the studio.
post #47 of 933
I only use Blockbuster but I've never not had HD audio with any rental...is this something new?
post #48 of 933
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Keep in mind that Netflix has to buy both DVD AND BD for each title, so there is certainly a cost issue with BD. I'd wager that most of their renters do not use BD. Not defending Netflix, I'm jes sayin. When more renters are asking for BD than DVD, then we can gripe about the fee.
But yet again it needs to be pointed out that Netflix does not decide what's on the disc, the studio does. Netflix is contractually required to take what they are given by the studio.

Unless they want to go out and buy the retail versions .. which could result in the ability of members to upgrade to a "Super Premium" plan for additional monthly cost .. this plan would allow you to get the full meal deal as well as the extras disk if there was one .. that may sound silly, but it might work ..

And yes, to those that say NF wants to eliminate the disk completely .. which was Reed Hastings idea from the get go .. streaming rose 50% in revenue in 2011 .. DVD dropped by 20% .. some predictions have disk sales dropping 75% in the next 2 years .. as well, the streaming prediction for 2012 is more films will be streamed than sales and rentals of all BD/DVD ...

And yes, DVD still makes up the bulk of NF as well as RB & B&M .. proving that most folks are more than happy with DVD ..

I still have a B&M in my area .. DVD stock on a big new release outnumbers BD by 15 to one ...
post #49 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoChe View Post

If it's that important to you, you'd buy it. When you go to the movie theater, do you demand a lower ticket price because you're only going to watch it once? I buy all my BD movies for quite a few reasons, and believe we should have perks over someone that just rents. I don't go to movie theaters so I look at the price of a BD as 2 tickets to a movie theater. Seems fair to me.

Wrong. Buying movies is a big waste of money and you shouldn't have any perks over someone who is smart enough to rent.
post #50 of 933
The studios are getting greedy and annoying. They are encouraging people to pirate movies because I can't even rent what I want any more! First they whacked the special features, like that is going to get me to pay $20 to watch a movie one time and now the audio. First I fault NetFlix for caving on this, buy the retail discs and add on say another $1-$2 a month to BD rentals. Clearly my selection of BD means I want the better audio/visual experience or I would opt for DVD or steaming. This would also solve the 28 day delay for rentals.
post #51 of 933
I didnt care for the lack of 'extra content' on the rentals from RedBox.

But now this? ! Unbelievable. I'm fed up. Then they complain because people download and rip... it's crazy.
post #52 of 933
I have been a Netflix member with BluRay disc service for quite a while, and I can't recall a single disc that was mastered in hi-rez sound and arrived without it--they have all come with either DTS Master HD or Dolby TrueHD. In this thread, I see people mentioning two titles I haven't seen (Hunger Games and Cabin in the Woods).

So which BD's came from Netflix without hi-rez sound?
post #53 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

Unless they want to go out and buy the retail versions .. which could result in the ability of members to upgrade to a "Super Premium" plan for additional monthly cost .. this plan would allow you to get the full meal deal as well as the extras disk if there was one .. that may sound silly, but it might work ..
And yes, to those that say NF wants to eliminate the disk completely .. which was Reed Hastings idea from the get go .. streaming rose 50% in revenue in 2011 .. DVD dropped by 20% .. some predictions have disk sales dropping 75% in the next 2 years .. as well, the streaming prediction for 2012 is more films will be streamed than sales and rentals of all BD/DVD ...
And yes, DVD still makes up the bulk of NF as well as RB & B&M .. proving that most folks are more than happy with DVD ..
I still have a B&M in my area .. DVD stock on a big new release outnumbers BD by 15 to one ...

A few points here, if I recall this year DVD rentals are up, I assume all those that left upset last year, some returned this ear realizing that physical media is still the only option for some content. With all the Internet caps and limited bandwidth I think streaming will hit some hurdles for some. And I am all for a "Premium" plan that gets you retail copies with the bonus features and no forced trailers and other rental limitations. NF needs to grow a pair of balls and stand up to the studios. What do the Studios think people are going to do if they can;t rent a movie, buy it? WRONG, many they will pirate it. NF can take its case to social media and get users on their side. As cheap as people are they are willing to pay for what they feel is a good value. Sure there will always be people that won't but I have always felt with the number of movies I rent a month I would easily pay 25 more for retail rentals.
post #54 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by stepyourgameup View Post

Wrong. Buying movies is a big waste of money and you shouldn't have any perks over someone who is smart enough to rent.

Wrong. The perk of buying a movie is unlimited viewings in the comfort of your own home. Renting limits the viewings (under normal parameters). The product you get should be the same, and frankly, you'd think the studios and filmakers would prefer this because this is their product image.
post #55 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoChe View Post

If it's that important to you, you'd buy it. When you go to the movie theater, do you demand a lower ticket price because you're only going to watch it once? I buy all my BD movies for quite a few reasons, and believe we should have perks over someone that just rents. I don't go to movie theaters so I look at the price of a BD as 2 tickets to a movie theater. Seems fair to me.

You're kidding right? If I go to a move (which I have not in years) and the movie is screwed up because of audio or projection problems I demand a refund. If it was common with a theater I don't go back. This was one of the main reasons I built my home theater, tired of movie theaters with projection and audio quality issues and charging $5-$8 for a matinee. I'll take that weekly movie money and pay off my theater and it looks better and sounds better, and as a side benefit I can pause when I need to and no annoying people talking . And since it has been 5 years since I was last in a theater I can only assume the advent of smart phones has made the movie experience very annoying. Your perk for buying is unlimited viewing and mobility, if I want to enjoy the audio and special features fine, charge me more for my rental, but give the consumer the option!
post #56 of 933
Another example, I am a guy that has held off on buying certain BD's because of inferior quality. Even if it meant upgrading from my DVD's. I never saw Hunger Games at the theater and I'm awfully curious about viewing it. But once I learned that the BD rental was with inferior sound I opted not to rent it. So I'll just wait for HBO. Further, I'm the type of person that if I like a movie well enough after renting I will go buy it because I enjoy having a collection. But if I had rented Hunger Games without realizing the inferior sound I likely would not have purchased it even if I liked the movie. Or put it this way, I would not have purchased the BD at normal BD prices but I might consider the purchase in a clearance bin.
post #57 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post

My opinion: For a one-time rental viewing, Dolby 5.1 is just fine. Any movie that has an awesome enough soundtrack that I really feel the need for lossless audio is most likely a movie I'll buy anyway.
Mark

I don't; agree with that, as many movies today have great audio, but I will never watch them a second time. There is way too much content out there to think I will be watching too many movies more than once or twice. My Netflix works out to about $3 per rental based on how many I rent a month and that does not factor in streaming so I would have to watch a BD 6-7 times to make it worth buying. I have on rare occasion rented a BD a second time from NF to watch it again, so I am well ahead of the game. Even if they created a BD-Premium plan that gave you the retail disc as a rental I would still be far ahead. If I am watching 5-7 movies a month it would be nuts to spend $150+ to buy them all just to gather dust.
post #58 of 933
I have not put it in the player yet, but just got The Avengers from Netflix and the Disk only has the Dolby Digital mark on it, Battleship has the DTS-HD mark on it.
post #59 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

Another example, I am a guy that has held off on buying certain BD's because of inferior quality. Even if it meant upgrading from my DVD's. I never saw Hunger Games at the theater and I'm awfully curious about viewing it. But once I learned that the BD rental was with inferior sound I opted not to rent it. So I'll just wait for HBO

HBO doesn't have HD audio either...plus you're still paying a monthly fee for the channel...
post #60 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

I have been a Netflix member with BluRay disc service for quite a while, and I can't recall a single disc that was mastered in hi-rez sound and arrived without it--they have all come with either DTS Master HD or Dolby TrueHD. In this thread, I see people mentioning two titles I haven't seen (Hunger Games and Cabin in the Woods).
So which BD's came from Netflix without hi-rez sound?

Apparently, no one can answer that:rolleyes:
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