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NetFlix RedBox BD's Without DTS-HD Master Audio / DD 5.1 Instead - Page 3

post #61 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

HBO doesn't have HD audio either...plus you're still paying a monthly fee for the channel...

Yes but that fee is a bulk fee for a cluster of channels. And there is the expectation of what quality I will get. With the rentals, I go to get a BD I expect a BD and all that a BD has to offer both in video and audio. That's the distinct difference. Yes, I have HBO HD but when I want full HD audio and video I go to BD. And that's what I expect, again, if I'm paying that premium for it (over SD).
post #62 of 921
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

I have been a Netflix member with BluRay disc service for quite a while, and I can't recall a single disc that was mastered in hi-rez sound and arrived without it--they have all come with either DTS Master HD or Dolby TrueHD. In this thread, I see people mentioning two titles I haven't seen (Hunger Games and Cabin in the Woods).
So which BD's came from Netflix without hi-rez sound?

This is really a developing issue .. mainly within the Lionsgate material so far ..
post #63 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

I buy a lot less than I used to. No doubt, Netflix has contributed to that. For the cost of one disc, I can watch dozens of movies every month. I don't see myself going back to the days of collecting a lot of discs like I did with DVD, especially for blind buys. There are several reasons:

3) A lot of movies simply aren't worth owning. I've bought a lot of movies that I really didn't need to buy years ago. Some of those sit on the shelf never to be watched again. When I switched to BD, I decided I would only buy movies I knew I would watch now and then. Repeat viewing movies only for me.

The studios simply haven't made it worth it for me to go all in on BD.

This.

Personally majority of movies I DO have time & money to see in theaters are great and will wind up in my personal collection, but more often than not movies today just aren't that damn good.

The question at hand I think is catered to a niche group. Most of us here, I assume, have quality home theaters, with quality displays and quality audio systems, so something like having stripped down audio is just unacceptable. Whereas the majority of consumers are still using tv speakers, so they wouldn't know the difference any who.

I think this movie by the studios won't affect anything in either direction, since we here are probably a small minority and even if we boycott their products, they still have the lemmings who will buy just because. Perhaps all we can do is just....listen in 2.0 stereo rolleyes.gif
post #64 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

Another example, I am a guy that has held off on buying certain BD's because of inferior quality. Even if it meant upgrading from my DVD's. I never saw Hunger Games at the theater and I'm awfully curious about viewing it. But once I learned that the BD rental was with inferior sound I opted not to rent it. So I'll just wait for HBO. Further, I'm the type of person that if I like a movie well enough after renting I will go buy it because I enjoy having a collection. But if I had rented Hunger Games without realizing the inferior sound I likely would not have purchased it even if I liked the movie. Or put it this way, I would not have purchased the BD at normal BD prices but I might consider the purchase in a clearance bin.

Off-topic, but if you read & liked the book, the movie is worth seeing/owning. Very good job was done with the script.
post #65 of 921
I just rented "Cabin In The Woods' for the not so cheap $3/day fee from Blockbuster. My friends and I watched it and were a bit surprised that there was no HD track. I didn't spend much time looking into anything, but based on the total amount of data, these are likely very full single layer releases with no further room for HD audio. I'm not sure how much that would save the studios per disc, but it made a little more sense to me than them simply gimping the release just to do so or for some almost pointless effort against piracy.
post #66 of 921
I got a disc from Redbox that had a 5.1 DD mix instead of the 7.1 mix that it should have had. So I called them to complain. The nice girl that answered the phone gave me two discount codes for future rentals. She also flagged that particular disc to be pulled out of circulation and checked by a technician.

Will the technician find anything wrong? Probably not. He probably knows exactly what's going on, while the girl answering the phone did not. But the time of the girl answering the phone, the discount codes, the lost rentals while the disc's out of service, and the technician's time all cost Redbox money. Money is what will get their attention. If enough of us do the same, we might just cost them enough money to start pressuring the studios into giving them the real discs.

Does the situation make me want to go buy the disc instead? Hell no. The last thing it makes me want to do is reward that studio with more of my money. What will I do if the first viewing was good enough to make me want to own the disc? This has happened many times, and I have a pretty big collection. But if it happens on one of these titles that the studio has stripped down for rental, I'll find a way to procure it without them getting profit. I'm sure there are ways.
post #67 of 921
IIRC, THE HUNGER GAME rental disc is around 30GB.so single layer excuse does not apply.
post #68 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

Unless they want to go out and buy the retail versions .. which could result in the ability of members to upgrade to a "Super Premium" plan for additional monthly cost .. this plan would allow you to get the full meal deal as well as the extras disk if there was one .. that may sound silly, but it might work ..

Again, Netflix is contractually required to take what they are getting from the studios, they cannot do anything else. It's all part of the same agreements they have with studios for streaming, release windows, etc.
post #69 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

I have been a Netflix member with BluRay disc service for quite a while, and I can't recall a single disc that was mastered in hi-rez sound and arrived without it--they have all come with either DTS Master HD or Dolby TrueHD. In this thread, I see people mentioning two titles I haven't seen (Hunger Games and Cabin in the Woods).
So which BD's came from Netflix without hi-rez sound?

Well, Hunger Games was one. I just got that last week, and I always check what sound stream it's using since sometimes the PS3 defaults to the wrong one, and I'm sitting there scratching my head wondering why the movie sounds like shite when it had such good reviews for sound, then I remember to check and switch, and it's like BAM, I can actually hear everything. Sort of like the phrase, it's like a veil has been lifted, but in this case it must be a thick veil of burlap or something. So anyway, yes Hunger Games is one that only had DD and the soundtrack was noticeably lackluster. There was another one a few weeks back, and I was sort of pissed off about it, ah. No Country for Old Men.

The problem as I see it though is you have no way of knowing before you rent the disc if you're getting shafted or not. It's not like I'm going to go buy the disc after the fact. I'm sure it's a piracy thing, so people can't just rent the discs and rip the HD soundtrack, which let's face it, many do. The thing is, it's ******** like this that makes me want to start just buying BD's on release, ripping them, and then selling them on ebay or Amazon marketplace the next day. I'm paying to rent, I should get the full product. If there's no legal way for me to rent the full product (Blu-ray quality video AND audio) then I'll just have to find my own way around it. Actually, I don't know if I'd bother to rip them, or just buy and immediately resell. I can probably effectively rent them on release day for only a $3-$4 loss as long as I turn them around right away. What a hassle though, maybe I'll just quit watching movies, I have more fun out on my mountain bike anyway.

Note: Apparently you can look before at which audio streams are on the disc. The netflix page lists it for the DVD and for the blu-ray. I guess in the future I'll have to look at that and those movies without it I just might not end up watching. The main reason I rent discs instead of streaming is for the better sound.
post #70 of 921
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Again, Netflix is contractually required to take what they are getting from the studios, they cannot do anything else. It's all part of the same agreements they have with studios for streaming, release windows, etc.

Again .. Unless they want to go out and buy the retail versions .. which could result in the ability of members to upgrade to a "Super Premium" plan for additional monthly cost .. this plan would allow you to get the full meal deal as well as the extras disk if there was one .. that may sound silly, but it might work ..

There is nothing to prevent NF from buying retail disks that I know of .. .. if you know of something that does, please elaborate
post #71 of 921
That's one reason why i quit netflix,lack of dts hd audio.
so i went with block buster haven't notice any lacking on the dts hd.
post #72 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epyon415 View Post

Off-topic, but if you read & liked the book, the movie is worth seeing/owning. Very good job was done with the script.

Didn't read the book but I've heard that.
post #73 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDigitalGuy05 View Post

That's one reason why i quit netflix,lack of dts hd audio.
so i went with block buster haven't notice any lacking on the dts hd.
So did you verify it by renting the hunger game or cabin in the woods?
post #74 of 921
I recently rented The Hunger Games from Blockbuster and it didn't have the 7.1 sound on it like it SHOULD have. While I still enjoyed the movie and the sound was still very good in 5.1 I was very disappointed that it didn't come with the 7.1 / DTS-HD Master Audio. I even asked an employee I'm friendly with about it and she had no idea why it wasn't included on the disc. Well, now I know.

Like some others here I don't buy very many BD's but like to watch a lot of movies. After VHS tapes went south I have restricted purchasing hard copies of anything to only the most favorite of movies. I usually rent 4-8 a month and prefer BD discs to DVD's for both picture AND sound quality so it kind of sucks for me that the studios are doing this. However it will not drive me to buy more hard copies of movies just to get the audio.

One reason I rent in the first place is to audition movies for my collection. If it's REALLY good it's worth the extra rental fee + cost of the disc.

In the end though, I would still prefer every movie have the HD audio.
Edited by Ishniknork - 9/26/12 at 6:23pm
post #75 of 921
I saw Cabin in the theaters, and loved it. I plan on buying it eventually, but I have a free trial of blockbuster right now so I thought I'd add it to my list and watch with some friends.

I was quite disappointed when I couldn't get it to play HD audio, because there was a prominent "DTS-HD" logo right on the disc! So I did what any good samaritan would, and crossed out the logo with a sharpie so the next poor soul would know why the logo was there but the audio was not.
post #76 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mounta1n View Post

The thing is, it's ******** like this that makes me want to start just buying BD's on release, ripping them, and then selling them on ebay or Amazon marketplace the next day. I'm paying to rent, I should get the full product. If there's no legal way for me to rent the full product (Blu-ray quality video AND audio) then I'll just have to find my own way around it. Actually, I don't know if I'd bother to rip them, or just buy and immediately resell. I can probably effectively rent them on release day for only a $3-$4 loss as long as I turn them around right away. What a hassle though, maybe I'll just quit watching movies, I have more fun out on my mountain bike anyway.

This. Technically, it's not completely illegal since you did own it. Then again, if the studios are going to screw us over, I see nothing morally wrong with returning the favor. Movie studios already make a bajillion dollars on movies, the least they could do is provide the end user with a quality rental. Or, if they're so worried about illegal rips, they need to rewrite their copyright protection. Either way, I'd venture a guess as to say that Blu-Ray sales are a small fraction of their actual business compared to Netflix and BB contracts, similar to how rental car companies are the largest customers to the auto industry.

Either way, it's safe to say I'll be buying used from here on out. Avatar, for example, sells for about $10 on ebay. The Avengers is going for about $15.
post #77 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosteh View Post

This. Technically, it's not completely illegal since you did own it. Then again, if the studios are going to screw us over, I see nothing morally wrong with returning the favor. Movie studios already make a bajillion dollars on movies, the least they could do is provide the end user with a quality rental. Or, if they're so worried about illegal rips, they need to rewrite their copyright protection. Either way, I'd venture a guess as to say that Blu-Ray sales are a small fraction of their actual business compared to Netflix and BB contracts, similar to how rental car companies are the largest customers to the auto industry.
Either way, it's safe to say I'll be buying used from here on out. Avatar, for example, sells for about $10 on ebay. The Avengers is going for about $15.

If you sell the physical copy, you no longer legally own it and cannot own a backup copy.

Very few titles are affected by this.. Most Redbox and Netflx titles are still lossless.
post #78 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

Again .. Unless they want to go out and buy the retail versions .. which could result in the ability of members to upgrade to a "Super Premium" plan for additional monthly cost .. this plan would allow you to get the full meal deal as well as the extras disk if there was one .. that may sound silly, but it might work ..
There is nothing to prevent NF from buying retail disks that I know of .. .. if you know of something that does, please elaborate

Netflix most likely has agreements in place with many of the studios. But your right, First Sale Doctrine would allow them to buy full featured versions from retailers. I suspect though, that Netflix would not want to break whatever agreements they have in place. For example their deal with Warner where they agreed to rental delays in exchange for cheaper than wholesale costs for Warner movies.
post #79 of 921
I had thought by now that Netflix simply got the master from the content owner and made their own discs...no? Seems cheaper for both the owner and Netflix...the way the old record and cd clubs used to do it.
post #80 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogurt80 View Post

I saw Cabin in the theaters, and loved it. I plan on buying it eventually, but I have a free trial of blockbuster right now so I thought I'd add it to my list and watch with some friends.
I was quite disappointed when I couldn't get it to play HD audio, because there was a prominent "DTS-HD" logo right on the disc! So I did what any good samaritan would, and crossed out the logo with a sharpie so the next poor soul would know why the logo was there but the audio was not.
LOL! I'm not lawyer but isn't that false advertising, mis-representation or something? Class-action suit anyone?

Might that cause them to go to the extra expense of having to make separate lables for the rental discs?
post #81 of 921
Boy was i mad when this happened to me with the rental of Hunter Games from redbox. I almost returned it and was just gonna wait till BB had it for rent. Then i just went ahead and watched it. So should have been DTS MA. Audio to me is HUGE and if its not HD, im pissed!
post #82 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

Again .. Unless they want to go out and buy the retail versions .. which could result in the ability of members to upgrade to a "Super Premium" plan for additional monthly cost .. this plan would allow you to get the full meal deal as well as the extras disk if there was one .. that may sound silly, but it might work ..
There is nothing to prevent NF from buying retail disks that I know of .. .. if you know of something that does, please elaborate

I guess it needs to be spelled out. Netflix CANNOT go buy retail discs, they are required to buy direct from the studios. This has always been part of their contracts, as well as the release windows and streaming content. It's all part of the same contract. In exchange for this they get lower pricing on the discs.
post #83 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosteh View Post

This. Technically, it's not completely illegal since you did own it. Then again, if the studios are going to screw us over, I see nothing morally wrong with returning the favor. Movie studios already make a bajillion dollars on movies, the least they could do is provide the end user with a quality rental. Or, if they're so worried about illegal rips, they need to rewrite their copyright protection. Either way, I'd venture a guess as to say that Blu-Ray sales are a small fraction of their actual business compared to Netflix and BB contracts, similar to how rental car companies are the largest customers to the auto industry.
Either way, it's safe to say I'll be buying used from here on out. Avatar, for example, sells for about $10 on ebay. The Avengers is going for about $15.

Funny you mention that, as I have a friend who downloaded a full BD rip of Hunger Games. When he played it, 7 minutes into the movie the video was replaced with a Lionsgate piracy warning (while the audio kept playing) and the movie then skipped to another section deep in the movie. There was no way to watch the film in its entirety and that guy was bummed spending the time to download the nearly 50GB rip (I don't remember how big exactly, but I think he said 47-48GB). Somehow they are working on copy protection...
Edited by pappy97 - 9/26/12 at 8:44pm
post #84 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by pappy97 View Post

Funny you mention that, as I have a friend who downloaded a full BD rip of Hunger Games. When he played it, 7 minutes into the movie the video was replaced with a Lionsgate piracy warning (while the audio kept playing) and the movie then skipped to another section deep in the movie. There was no way to watch the film in its entirety and that guy was bummed spending the time to download the nearly 50GB rip (I don't remember how big exactly, but I think he said 47-48GB). Somehow they are working on copy protection...
I doubt that was the case.

Studios often seed torrents with bad content for that very reason. They can't shut it down, so they try to corrupt it hoping people will eventually give up.
post #85 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

There is nothing to prevent NF from buying retail disks that I know of .. .. if you know of something that does, please elaborate
The problem is, Netflix wants to be a streaming company.

If they got around the disc agreements they have by buying retail discs, they would run the risk of the studios pulling their streaming content.

Legally, Netflix has the right to buy the discs. Contractually, they would burn themselves big time with the studios if they did.
post #86 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

If you sell the physical copy, you no longer legally own it and cannot own a backup copy.
Very few titles are affected by this.. Most Redbox and Netflx titles are still lossless.

This is true. I just looked at Blu-Ray Stats and there's not that many titles by Lionsgate that I am interested in, so I guess I need not worry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pappy97 View Post

Funny you mention that, as I have a friend who downloaded a full BD rip of Hunger Games. When he played it, 7 minutes into the movie the video was replaced with a Lionsgate piracy warning (while the audio kept playing) and the movie then skipped to another section deep in the movie. There was no way to watch the film in its entirety and that guy was bummed spending the time to download the nearly 50GB rip (I don't remember how big exactly, but I think he said 47-48GB). Somehow they are working on copy protection...

Ripping blu rays is very easy and I guarantee that there's no way they somehow encode a warning into the movie when I rip it. A) that would take massive system resources and, b) I've ripped other Lionsgate films and never had some silly warning. For what it's worth, I do own those titles (3:10 to Yuma and The Forbidden Kingdom).
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

I doubt that was the case.
Studios often seed torrents with bad content for that very reason. They can't shut it down, so they try to corrupt it hoping people will eventually give up.

This is also true. It's quite annoying, but that's why you always use torrents with good ratings or just don't use them. They're usually crap quality anyway. Half of blu ray is getting lossless audio and the enhanced bit-depth. I sure don't want to lose both of those for a semi-decent HD rip.
post #87 of 921
this was an interesting (and entertaining) thread to read. I don't really buy into the "if you rent, that's all you should expect" idea in some of the previous posts. If I rent a house, I don't think I should have half of the walls, and if I lease a car, I don't think I should have only 2 tires and half the brakes. So, If I pay $5.99 for a DVD, that's what I get, but I pay $6.99 for the BR, I think I should expect to get what I pay for. Like many posters, I believe that it's an attempt to dissuade ppl to stop renting and buy/stream.


Having said that, I have to buy has there is no place to rent physical copy in the city. It can be expensive, new BD release are no cheaper than $24.99 to $29.99 depending on titles. Blockbuster Canada is no more and Rogers Video don't do rentals anymore, of course, they have other interest, like streaming, has they are one of the 2 major internet provider in Canada. Netflix, if I'm not mistaking, don't offer physical rental service here. I was a heavy renter, and would buy if I enjoyed what i've rented. I guess I can still do that with streaming, but one is limited depending on the internet package one has.
post #88 of 921
If this trend continues I will stop renting. I've already cut my purchases down to near zero. Mainly because, IMO and strictly for me, it was a waste of money.

I have a decent 7.1 setup and not having HD audio on rental disks is an insult to me as a consumer and a customer. I can tell the difference, and I refuse to "settle" as some of the elitist attitudes here suggest I do.
post #89 of 921
I absolutely hate when rentals remove the HD audio and put lossy DD in its place. I only watch most movies once, so renting is the best way for me to go. Now that one watch feels gimped due to not getting the full audio with the discs that do this. I certainly wont be buying more because of this for the reason I already mentioned, so I guess I just deal with not getting the full experience. mad.gif
post #90 of 921
I think us enthusiasts have to do a better job getting the word out that there that this task is happening. Maybe a running list of titles NetFlix and RedBox offer that have lossless audio removed.

Honestly, this is the first I've heard of it, and I basically only rent Blu-Rays. Wife buys hers, but I rarely watch a movie more than once. We rent mostly from Netflix, but also occassionally from Redbox. This news is very frustrating to me, as I have a 3-disc blu-ray rental plan....
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