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The Avengers Blu-Ray Bass and General Discussion - Page 2

post #31 of 278
I'd say there was a great deal more bass than Avatar, but since my Outlaw LFM-ex is set to 25hz, I can't speak much for how deep it goes (judging from responses, not too much further). But, to me, there seemed to be plenty of effects that went into the 20hz range. An overall fantastically dynamic mix.
post #32 of 278
Avatar had lots of air moving during any action scene and lots of air movement with wings flapping.
post #33 of 278
Talk about results that are all over the map!

"Bass was kind of lacking IMO"

"I can't say I wanted for anything in the bass department. If fact, I ended up turning some levels down."

"Bass has been great with 2 SB12-nsd's."

"If you guys are lacking bass, something is wrong. Had to turn my levels down aswell, was shaking everything apart! Great movie, huge bass."

"What did you think of the building collapse at the early stage of the movie? I'm in Australia and thought that the bass was very weak during that part"

"On my US Blu Ray copy, the building collapse you reference was (IMO) the best bass in the whole movie,"

"Lots of feel just not the best of the best, still a great experience but nothing like the 5 stars for bass."

"this is a great action entertaining movie with plenty of incedible LFE (about 4 or 4.5)."

"I was impressed with the start when the tesseract was playing up and the whole building shook when it was pulsating but that's really the only memorable (huge bass) moment of the whole movie imo."

"Pretty much the whole movie was full of bass, opening scene, any fight scene, Iron man flying, planes/helicopters taking off, porthole opening."

"Sounded like good movie theater bass, which is to say hard hitting and punchy, just not digging super deep. Of course, there was moments where the room was clearly pressurized more than others so it may go pretty low. Also, some scenes seemed almost too boomy, like they were focused in the 60-80hz region to much."

"there seemed to be plenty of effects that went into the 20hz range. An overall fantastically dynamic mix."

Ok, I'm glad we cleared that up!biggrin.gif
post #34 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

Talk about results that are all over the map!
"Bass was kind of lacking IMO"
"I can't say I wanted for anything in the bass department. If fact, I ended up turning some levels down."
"Bass has been great with 2 SB12-nsd's."
"If you guys are lacking bass, something is wrong. Had to turn my levels down aswell, was shaking everything apart! Great movie, huge bass."
"What did you think of the building collapse at the early stage of the movie? I'm in Australia and thought that the bass was very weak during that part"
"On my US Blu Ray copy, the building collapse you reference was (IMO) the best bass in the whole movie,"
"Lots of feel just not the best of the best, still a great experience but nothing like the 5 stars for bass."
"this is a great action entertaining movie with plenty of incedible LFE (about 4 or 4.5)."
"I was impressed with the start when the tesseract was playing up and the whole building shook when it was pulsating but that's really the only memorable (huge bass) moment of the whole movie imo."
"Pretty much the whole movie was full of bass, opening scene, any fight scene, Iron man flying, planes/helicopters taking off, porthole opening."
"Sounded like good movie theater bass, which is to say hard hitting and punchy, just not digging super deep. Of course, there was moments where the room was clearly pressurized more than others so it may go pretty low. Also, some scenes seemed almost too boomy, like they were focused in the 60-80hz region to much."
"there seemed to be plenty of effects that went into the 20hz range. An overall fantastically dynamic mix."
Ok, I'm glad we cleared that up!biggrin.gif

Like I have said, it would help if we all knew what response and levels we were running. Most movies have lots of bass running 10 dBs hot. I am running subs 3 dBs hot flat to 4hz with no compression at reference with 6 dBs of headroom if needed(not needed). This movie was good for bass but not great. Just throw in TIH after and talk to me. Tron, Battle La and Immortals all have much lower stronger LFE. Heck, Batman Begins and The Dark Night has more as well. I am comparing the same levels of course.
post #35 of 278
Like any other discussion about the infamous sub channel, if someone has a 10db bump in their room at 40hz and a 5db dip at 50hz, then it's obviously going to sound much different than someone running a flat response.
post #36 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Like I have said, it would help if we all knew what response and levels we were running. Most movies have lots of bass running 10 dBs hot. I am running subs 3 dBs hot flat to 4hz with no compression at reference with 6 dBs of headroom if needed(not needed). This movie was good for bass but not great. Just throw in TIH after and talk to me. Tron, Battle La and Immortals all have much lower stronger LFE. Heck, Batman Begins and The Dark Night has more as well. I am comparing the same levels of course.

Knew this coming home from seeing this in the theater twice. This one is average at best wrt bass content.

"But it's just...so ...awesome, man! THE AVENGERS!!!"
post #37 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Knew this coming home from seeing this in the theater twice. This one is average at best wrt bass content.
"But it's just...so ...awesome, man! THE AVENGERS!!!"

I agree, still an ejoyable experience as the overall sound is great because it sounds nice at reference. I still like Immortals(minus the few clipping parts) overall sound better.
post #38 of 278
I'm still interested in hearing the 7.1 mix. Hope it's good.
post #39 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

I'm still interested in hearing the 7.1 mix. Hope it's good.
The track as a whole is great, I thought. Very well done, in my opinion. Other than some moments when I was expecting deeper LFE, I have no complaints at all.
post #40 of 278
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

Talk about results that are all over the map!
"Bass was kind of lacking IMO"
"I can't say I wanted for anything in the bass department. If fact, I ended up turning some levels down."
"Bass has been great with 2 SB12-nsd's."
"If you guys are lacking bass, something is wrong. Had to turn my levels down aswell, was shaking everything apart! Great movie, huge bass."
"What did you think of the building collapse at the early stage of the movie? I'm in Australia and thought that the bass was very weak during that part"
"On my US Blu Ray copy, the building collapse you reference was (IMO) the best bass in the whole movie,"
"Lots of feel just not the best of the best, still a great experience but nothing like the 5 stars for bass."
"this is a great action entertaining movie with plenty of incedible LFE (about 4 or 4.5)."
"I was impressed with the start when the tesseract was playing up and the whole building shook when it was pulsating but that's really the only memorable (huge bass) moment of the whole movie imo."
"Pretty much the whole movie was full of bass, opening scene, any fight scene, Iron man flying, planes/helicopters taking off, porthole opening."
"Sounded like good movie theater bass, which is to say hard hitting and punchy, just not digging super deep. Of course, there was moments where the room was clearly pressurized more than others so it may go pretty low. Also, some scenes seemed almost too boomy, like they were focused in the 60-80hz region to much."
"there seemed to be plenty of effects that went into the 20hz range. An overall fantastically dynamic mix."
Ok, I'm glad we cleared that up!biggrin.gif

And this is why those kick ass guys that run spec lab graphs are so important IMO, just sayin. I know my system and sometimes I run RTA during scenes with omnimic to compare content. Add the fact that many run their subs hot and some into compression or distortion... Anyways I hope to see some blu/dvd graphs at some point, just got my copy in hand, will be giving it a spin tonight.biggrin.gif
Edited by Luke Kamp - 9/26/12 at 10:31am
post #41 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

The track as a whole is great, I thought. Very well done, in my opinion. Other than some moments when I was expecting deeper LFE, I have no complaints at all.
This is pretty much exactly how I feel about the soundtrack.
post #42 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

Talk about results that are all over the map!
"Bass was kind of lacking IMO"
"I can't say I wanted for anything in the bass department. If fact, I ended up turning some levels down."
"Bass has been great with 2 SB12-nsd's."
"If you guys are lacking bass, something is wrong. Had to turn my levels down aswell, was shaking everything apart! Great movie, huge bass."
"What did you think of the building collapse at the early stage of the movie? I'm in Australia and thought that the bass was very weak during that part"
"On my US Blu Ray copy, the building collapse you reference was (IMO) the best bass in the whole movie,"
"Lots of feel just not the best of the best, still a great experience but nothing like the 5 stars for bass."
"this is a great action entertaining movie with plenty of incedible LFE (about 4 or 4.5)."
"I was impressed with the start when the tesseract was playing up and the whole building shook when it was pulsating but that's really the only memorable (huge bass) moment of the whole movie imo."
"Pretty much the whole movie was full of bass, opening scene, any fight scene, Iron man flying, planes/helicopters taking off, porthole opening."
"Sounded like good movie theater bass, which is to say hard hitting and punchy, just not digging super deep. Of course, there was moments where the room was clearly pressurized more than others so it may go pretty low. Also, some scenes seemed almost too boomy, like they were focused in the 60-80hz region to much."
"there seemed to be plenty of effects that went into the 20hz range. An overall fantastically dynamic mix."
Ok, I'm glad we cleared that up!biggrin.gif
^biggrin.gif

Watched it last night with the neighborhood (SRO). Sounded great and was the best of the marvelous Marvel movies ... If you have an HT this BR is a must own IMHO wink.gif
post #43 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

^biggrin.gif
Watched it last night with the neighborhood (SRO). Sounded great and was the best of the marvelous Marvel movies ... If you have an HT this BR is a must own IMHO wink.gif

I agree, after the Batman trilogy this is my favorite super hero movie. Some of the X-men were great as well. The soundtrack sounds awesome at reference but I was always waiting for that 5 star bass moment which never happened. I still say a must buy, great flick, great picture and sound.
post #44 of 278
Because the sound team is the same as those who did Thor, as suspected, The Avengers soundtrack is the same, only actually weaker.

This one's filtered at 30 Hz with a 3rd or 4th order filter. That means that by 20 Hz the intensity of anything done in sound design is down -16dB and by 15 Hz is off the radar.

These SL caps were done with a mic at the LP, subs calibrated flat and FR of (+/-) 3dB, 4-120 Hz. The DVD was used (DD 5.1). When comparing Thor on DVD vs BR, the BR was goosed +10dB in level. I have no idea if this is the case with A, but I don't intend to find out because I'm not buying any more of these ridiculously filtered discs. This rental disc was lent to me by my neighbor so that I could cap a few graphs for those interested and before the comments about the content of low end in this movie cross over into the land of absurdity.

I liked the movie in the theater, except of course for the lack of low end. It's a great script, finally in keeping with the original Stan Lee comics, full of quips and clips that are hilariously funny. Acted by a superb cast with great visual effects, etc. Just crapola sound.

Here's the building collapse scene (because several have asked for it):

Abuildingcollapse.png

Here's where the battle begins:

Abattlebegins.png

Here's the scroll speed slowed so that a large portion of the end battle can be seen at a glance:

Abattlescene.png

It doesn't matter what scene anyone thinks has awesome bass, so please don't ask for more graphs. Every scene is exactly as the graphs posted above. There is nothing of any consequence below 25 Hz.
Edited by bossobass - 9/26/12 at 12:45pm
post #45 of 278
Thread Starter 
Thanks a lot bosso. I hope the best of you and your subwoofer endeavors (still going to have an 18" for DIY?). You really stand your ground and I always get something out of your posts. I hope you can stick around.

That's a real bummer guys. It looks like you got most of this at the theater, and could get the jist of it with and emotiva ref12.
post #46 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

Thanks a lot bosso. I hope the best of you and your subwoofer endeavors (still going to have an 18" for DIY?). You really stand your ground and I always get something out of your posts. I hope you can stick around.
That's a real bummer guys. It looks like you got most of this at the theater, and could get the jist of it with and emotiva ref12.

Nonsense, the subs are only a part of the equation "crapola" speakers = crapola sound. This a great sounding fun movie. smile.gif
post #47 of 278
I agree the bass was lacking(compared to the best) but the speakers sound awesome. Again, I judge on how clear, dynamic, a movie sounds at reference. I had a feeling this movie had similar subwoofer performance as the theater except my sound deeper due to the nature of my drivers compared to theater 18's. At least it was much better than say a 2012 or Battleship. I need to put Avatar in because although it looked and sound awesome I thought the bass was good, not great, like this movie.
post #48 of 278
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Nonsense, the subs are only a part of the equation "crapola" speakers = crapola sound. This a great sounding fun movie. smile.gif

I am not saying I won't enjoy the sound or movie. But 30hz that is an ESPN "come on man." Especially when there have been better extension in others of this Marvel series. I agree and I have crapola speakers so I am screwed.tongue.gif
post #49 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I agree the bass was lacking(compared to the best) but the speakers sound awesome. Again, I judge on how clear, dynamic, a movie sounds at reference. I had a feeling this movie had similar subwoofer performance as the theater except my sound deeper due to the nature of my drivers compared to theater 18's. At least it was much better than say a 2012 or Battleship. I need to put Avatar in because although it looked and sound awesome I thought the bass was good, not great, like this movie.

Avatar has much better low end.

Not sure what you mean by "speakers sound awesome"? Do you mean that you think the surround mix is exceptional? I have to disagree. There are far better surround mix soundtracks.The vocals (center channel) and surround mix are nowhere near the quality of, say, the LOTR trilogy.

Also, some soundtracks like the original Transformers and Avatar can stand having the subs bumped and it adds to the enjoyment, but if you bump the subs for A it sounds like the subs are bumped.

I give it 3 stars. Big disappointment for a mega-buck budget action flick of this calibre.

Lots of comments on my opinion for this soundtrack like "nonsense", "silly", "ridiculous", but none of them accompanied by any data or direct comparisons to warrant such behavior.
post #50 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

Avatar has much better low end.
Not sure what you mean by "speakers sound awesome"? Do you mean that you think the surround mix is exceptional? I have to disagree. There are far better surround mix soundtracks.The vocals (center channel) and surround mix are nowhere near the quality of, say, the LOTR trilogy.
Also, some soundtracks like the original Transformers and Avatar can stand having the subs bumped and it adds to the enjoyment, but if you bump the subs for A it sounds like the subs are bumped.
I give it 3 stars. Big disappointment for a mega-buck budget action flick of this calibre.
Lots of comments on my opinion for this soundtrack like "nonsense", "silly", "ridiculous", but none of them accompanied by any data or direct comparisons to warrant such behavior.

I don't disagree, but I have heard many movies sound awful at reference and this one sound very good at reference(vocals and front stage). I did not pay much attention to the surrounds. Bosso, LOTR are my reference standards!
post #51 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

Thanks a lot bosso. I hope the best of you and your subwoofer endeavors (still going to have an 18" for DIY?). You really stand your ground and I always get something out of your posts. I hope you can stick around.
That's a real bummer guys. It looks like you got most of this at the theater, and could get the jist of it with and emotiva ref12.

I appreciate the kind words and back atcha, and I'm glad to be able to post the data.
post #52 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I don't disagree, but I have heard many movies sound awful at reference and this one sound very good at reference(vocals and front stage). I did not pay much attention to the surrounds. Bosso, LOTR are my reference standards!

I agree with the idea that there are a lot of soundtracks that may be considered worse than A, but you did say "awesome". If awesome doesn't mean reference, then what does it mean? smile.gif

Crapola is a term I nicked from Jack Black (forget which movie) and it has to be pronounced correctly to get the meaning right. The accent is on po and the 'o' is a long o. biggrin.gif In the context of soundtracks, it simply means "not reference quality" in regard to a soundtrack from a movie with an estimated budget of a quarter billion dollars.
post #53 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

I am not saying I won't enjoy the sound or movie. But 30hz that is an ESPN "come on man." Especially when there have been better extension in others of this Marvel series. I agree and I have crapola speakers so I am screwed.tongue.gif

I'm just sayin, I thought the Avengers bass was Ok (could have been better) but overall the movie is a great HT sound experience IMHO

I think you are being a little harsh regarding your ED's ... which are by most reports excellent HT speakers. Warranty might be an issue though ... smile.gif There are a few people (not you) with big and low bass capability but with their other loudspeakers being of the crapola variety. How they can ever play these soundtracks at reference levels without having their little tweeters land in their laps is a mystery.
Edited by RMK! - 9/26/12 at 1:57pm
post #54 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post


When comparing Thor on DVD vs BR, the BR was goosed +10dB in level. I have no idea if this is the case with A, but I don't intend to find out because I'm not buying any more of these ridiculously filtered discs.


When you compare the WOTW DVD DD 5.1 soundtrack to the WOTW DVD DTS soundtrack, the DTS soundtrack plays back 8 dB louder than the DD soundtrack. Same identical soundmix, just a difference in settings in the encoder.

It is kind of pointless to make anything out of the differences in sound level between two different encodes.
post #55 of 278
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I'm just sayin, I thought the Avengers bass was Ok (could have been better) but overall the movie is a great HT sound experience IMHO
I think you are being a little harsh regarding your ED's ... which are by most reports excellent HT speakers. Warranty might be an issue though ... smile.gif

Man I haven't even seen it yet, just trailers and comments and data presented here. The reason I am posting so much today probably has to do with my excitement of a first viewing tonight after the young one is off to bed.smile.gif

I think you got me backwards with Carp. I blew a lot of budget on my screen and projector and then had a catastrophic sewage backup flood and had to have a backhoe come in and replace my sewage line (insurance stops at the house). I got my speakers off Craigslist from a youth group on the cheap. Klipsch rf 35 and rc 7 up front at 11ft seating distance. Probably not the best power response. I do have 4 inch acoustic treatment with 4 inch gap at all 1st reflections besides screen wall and 2/3 corners with large bass traps and completely bass trapped ceiling.

I am probably going to wait awhile and do a revamp of the room in a year or two where most will go. 6 month old and other hobbies going on right now and I am happy with what I have.smile.gif Your system is inspiring!

PS Wife thinks I am nuts.
post #56 of 278
Wait a minute......you changed your mind and decided to actually listen to the track in your own HT before writing it off Bosso?!? eek.gif Nice work! wink.gif
post #57 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

Man I haven't even seen it yet, just trailers and comments and data presented here. The reason I am posting so much today probably has to do with my excitement of a first viewing tonight after the young one is off to bed.smile.gif
I think you got me backwards with Carp. I blew a lot of budget on my screen and projector and then had a catastrophic sewage backup flood and had to have a backhoe come in and replace my sewage line (insurance stops at the house). I got my speakers off Craigslist from a youth group on the cheap. Klipsch rf 35 and rc 7 up front at 11ft seating distance. Probably not the best power response. I do have 4 inch acoustic treatment with 4 inch gap at all 1st reflections besides screen wall and 2/3 corners with large bass traps and completely bass trapped ceiling.
I am probably going to wait awhile and do a revamp of the room in a year or two where most will go. 6 month old and other hobbies going on right now and I am happy with what I have.smile.gif Your system is inspiring!
PS Wife thinks I am nuts.

I'm sorry for thinking you were Carp Luke but all you Kansan's look alike to me. Your wife is wrong and has a lot of nerve saying that ... but don't tell her I said so redface.gif
post #58 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

Avatar has much better low end.
Not sure what you mean by "speakers sound awesome"? Do you mean that you think the surround mix is exceptional? I have to disagree. There are far better surround mix soundtracks.The vocals (center channel) and surround mix are nowhere near the quality of, say, the LOTR trilogy.
Also, some soundtracks like the original Transformers and Avatar can stand having the subs bumped and it adds to the enjoyment, but if you bump the subs for A it sounds like the subs are bumped.
I give it 3 stars. Big disappointment for a mega-buck budget action flick of this calibre.
Lots of comments on my opinion for this soundtrack like "nonsense", "silly", "ridiculous", but none of them accompanied by any data or direct comparisons to warrant such behavior.

Thanks for posting those graphs and explains allot. I 100% agree with your comments above. For the record I'm running a full JTR speaker setup (Triple 8's and slanted 8's for surround 5.1 setup) with exception to the bass department where I have 2 Seaton Submersives paired with a Krell 5 channel amp and an Anthem D2v processor with subs set to flat in the calibration software called ARC on the Anthem. TIH simply is one of the best movies to show off bass as is Thor and Underworld-Awakening. The Avengers simply isn't in the same league as these 3 IMO for bass or surround use.

Just to be sure but I was told by a friend that the guy that did the audio for Ironman 1-2 did The Avengers and not the guy that did Thor and Underworld-Awakening?
post #59 of 278
Can someone please explain these "graphs". Are they are taken with a microphone at the primary listening position?

I was thinking they were coming right off the disk as in, a PC/Laptop with a bluray drive and the software was reading the frequencies right off of the disk via the sound card.confused.gif
post #60 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Can someone please explain these "graphs". Are they are taken with a microphone at the primary listening position?

I was thinking they were coming right off the disk as in, a PC/Laptop with a bluray drive and the software was reading the frequencies right off of the disk via the sound card.confused.gif



You can do waterfalls either way. Bosso discloses his measurement method so that you do not get confused on what he is doing.
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