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The Avengers Blu-Ray Bass and General Discussion - Page 3

post #61 of 278
9/27/12 at 6:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

You can do waterfalls either way. Bosso discloses his measurement method so that you do not get confused on what he is doing.

Would it not be much more accurate to take the waterfalls straight off the disc? Then you get the raw data independent of the sub(s) capabilities and the room effects.

Bosso's system is incredible, but few others would have anything similar.
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post #62 of 278
9/27/12 at 6:52am
Bosso has shown that his system measured at the mic is very close to the data on the disc. If I remember correctly he has a slight increase in the midbass and slightly reduced single digits compared to disc. He also has a mic that does not need files for speclab so his low end would be much more accurate as well.
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post #63 of 278
9/27/12 at 7:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

Would it not be much more accurate to take the waterfalls straight off the disc? Then you get the raw data independent of the sub(s) capabilities and the room effects.
Bosso's system is incredible, but few others would have anything similar.

Exactly, if the Thread is about what is on the disks soundtrack, why introduce any unnecessary variable no matter how small.

Unless of course you are trying to sell subwoofers and want to demonstrate their prodigious ULF capability.smile.gif
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post #64 of 278
9/27/12 at 7:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

I was the first person in the US to obtain a legal copy of the 3D version...
First... Period.

my god. Lamest post of the month.

Congratulations.

James
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post #65 of 278
9/27/12 at 7:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Like I have said, it would help if we all knew what response and levels we were running. Most movies have lots of bass running 10 dBs hot. I am running subs 3 dBs hot flat to 4hz with no compression at reference with 6 dBs of headroom if needed(not needed). This movie was good for bass but not great. Just throw in TIH after and talk to me. Tron, Battle La and Immortals all have much lower stronger LFE. Heck, Batman Begins and The Dark Night has more as well. I am comparing the same levels of course.

I don't understand the "most movies have lots of bass running 10dbs hot" comment.

If it's on the disk/inherent to the original source, how can it be "hot"? That's simply the way it was intended.

Don't most view "hot" as a bump up at the playback level...or at the very least, "hot" perhaps on a new/remastered version of an original?

EDIT: after reading on a bit, perhaps you're alluding to some blu rays apparently being 10dbs hotter in the bass dept over their DVD counterparts?

If so, my apologies, I had no clue it went that far, and as a matter of fact, I had heard about the exact opposite, where the BD's were filtered/neutered over their DVD counterparts...Master and Commander comes to mind.

I'm sure that's what you were talking about.

James
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post #66 of 278
9/27/12 at 7:45am
I am sorry, I meant that if someone runs their subs hot 10 dBs(I used to all the time) then every movie with ok bass would seem like it has tons of bass. One member mentioned he watched the Avengers with his subs 10 dBs hot and turned the gain up so in reality it could have been 15 dBs hot so not really fair to state it had awesome bass. The 5 star bass movies do physical things to your body and room and the Avengers did not. I kept waiting for it but it never reached loud enough. I think the lowest it ever went was when they showed Colson outside the building evacuating people and they dropped cases on the stairs. This was before the building collapse. I still enjoyed the movie and I might turn up the bass this time. I used to get out the spl meter to compare these movies and when it hit over 120 dBs it was an automatic 4.5 stars. When it hit 125 dBs it was a 5 star. Of course this also depends on extension and quantity. I never even watched FOTP but just say that scene is 5 stars. These numbers were from running hot so I have to go back and run them again with my new system settings.
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post #67 of 278
9/27/12 at 7:50am
One more thing, if a movie has full bandwidth content and not filtered anyone can make it 5 stars by turning it up! I do this all the time. Captain America had full bandwidth bass but the levels were too low to be any better than 4 stars however if you turn that LFE up it becomes a 5 star bass movie. The Avengers can be turned up as well but it will never be a 5 star movie with a steep rolloff of the low content. Your ported subs tuned to 20hz goes deeper than the Avengers! Imagine if it at least went to high levels of 20hz your Cap would be much happier. wink.gif
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post #68 of 278
9/27/12 at 7:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

Avatar has much better low end.
Not sure what you mean by "speakers sound awesome"? Do you mean that you think the surround mix is exceptional? I have to disagree. There are far better surround mix soundtracks.The vocals (center channel) and surround mix are nowhere near the quality of, say, the LOTR trilogy.
Also, some soundtracks like the original Transformers and Avatar can stand having the subs bumped and it adds to the enjoyment, but if you bump the subs for A it sounds like the subs are bumped.
I give it 3 stars. Big disappointment for a mega-buck budget action flick of this calibre.
Lots of comments on my opinion for this soundtrack like "nonsense", "silly", "ridiculous", but none of them accompanied by any data or direct comparisons to warrant such behavior.

Wow. Just...wow.

The idea that you actually believe that someone else's opinion re your opinion on the matter of how something sounds requires "data" is really what's completely baseless and unwarranted, sir.

Yes, a movie without- wait for it- sub 25hz bass can absolutely be an A level affair. Yes, it can.

As "professional" (you know, clogs like this: http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Avengers-Blu-ray/30654/ and this: http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/09/26/marvels-the-avengers-blu-ray-review) and "amateur" (lmao) reviews alike have already nearly unanimously indicated, this is one of them. Great scene-appropriate bass content? Check. Great bass dynamics? Check. Great bass realism? Check. Oh, and a fantastic 7 channel mix, to boot? Check.

The absolute, inarguable STANDARD of cinematic audio? Ummm, prolly not. But, imperatively, not a soul has said or even inferred such, of course. Even more imperatively: the aforementioned has nothing to do with THIS movie offering an A level bass/sound experience.

Coming in and littering otherwise productive, entertaining threads with this drum-beating sub 20hz rhetoric is beyond old and tiring at this point. We get it, you feel insulted and cheated over such things.

Can we move on now? I know I cannot be the only one nauseous over it by now. You have your 10hz disciples...how many more do you need to "convert" until the rest of us are spared?

Thanks in advance.

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 9/27/12 at 8:06am
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post #69 of 278
9/27/12 at 8:10am
"This rental disc was lent to me by my neighbor"
There are PLENTY of people here who know more than me. But hasn't there been discussions on whether rental disks really contain the full audio? I mean on the first page of this forum there is a topic "Controversy: Why are BR rentals lacking HD-audio. Now I don't know if they really do this because I always buy my movies. I am just putting this out there. Could their be two versions of the disks? One that goes to the rental places and one that goes to the retail stores. Just asking smile.gif.
Personally, I can't wait to get it and watch it again in my system.
Edited by MIkeDuke - 9/27/12 at 8:29am
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post #70 of 278
9/27/12 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

Because the sound team is the same as those who did Thor, as suspected, The Avengers soundtrack is the same, only actually weaker.
This one's filtered at 30 Hz with a 3rd or 4th order filter. That means that by 20 Hz the intensity of anything done in sound design is down -16dB and by 15 Hz is off the radar.
These SL caps were done with a mic at the LP, subs calibrated flat and FR of (+/-) 3dB, 4-120 Hz. The DVD was used (DD 5.1). When comparing Thor on DVD vs BR, the BR was goosed +10dB in level. I have no idea if this is the case with A, but I don't intend to find out because I'm not buying any more of these ridiculously filtered discs. This rental disc was lent to me by my neighbor so that I could cap a few graphs for those interested and before the comments about the content of low end in this movie cross over into the land of absurdity.
I liked the movie in the theater, except of course for the lack of low end. It's a great script, finally in keeping with the original Stan Lee comics, full of quips and clips that are hilariously funny. Acted by a superb cast with great visual effects, etc. Just crapola sound.
Here's the building collapse scene (because several have asked for it):
Abuildingcollapse.png
Here's where the battle begins:
Abattlebegins.png
Here's the scroll speed slowed so that a large portion of the end battle can be seen at a glance:
Abattlescene.png
It doesn't matter what scene anyone thinks has awesome bass, so please don't ask for more graphs. Every scene is exactly as the graphs posted above. There is nothing of any consequence below 25 Hz.
Well with this, on to prometheus!! 13 days biggrin.gif
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post #71 of 278
9/27/12 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Wow. Just...wow.
The idea that you actually believe that someone else's opinion re your opinion on the matter of how something sounds requires "data" is really what's completely baseless and unwarranted, sir.
Yes, a movie without- wait for it- sub 25hz bass can absolutely be an A level affair. Yes, it can.
As "professional" (you know, clogs like this: http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Avengers-Blu-ray/30654/ and this: http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/09/26/marvels-the-avengers-blu-ray-review) and "amateur" (lmao) reviews alike have already nearly unanimously indicated, this is one of them. Great scene-appropriate bass content? Check. Great bass dynamics? Check. Great bass realism? Check. Oh, and a fantastic 7 channel mix, to boot? Check.
The absolute, inarguable STANDARD of cinematic audio? Ummm, prolly not. But, imperatively, not a soul has said or even inferred such, of course. Even more imperatively: the aforementioned has nothing to do with THIS movie offering an A level bass/sound experience.
Coming in and littering otherwise productive, entertaining threads with this drum-beating sub 20hz rhetoric is beyond old and tiring at this point. We get it, you feel insulted and cheated over such things.
Can we move on now? I know I cannot be the only one nauseous over it by now. You have your 10hz disciples...how many more do you need to "convert" until the rest of us are spared?
Thanks in advance.
James

Well put, James. smile.gif

As is the norm on this forum, almost every little bit of audio minutia tends to get over-analyzed to death. When it comes to a terrific, world-class action movie like Avengers, I'd suggest to anybody that they simply pop the disc in and either enjoy it or not. Stop worrying whether it extends to 10hz, 15hz, or OMG no, only 20hz!eek.gif It is a top-notch film both sonically and visually even if it isn't the ultimate in bass extension. For those of you who need to live on bass extension alone, why not just get rid of your main speakers entirely and run low frequency tone sweeps for enjoyment.
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post #72 of 278
9/27/12 at 8:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

Well put, James. smile.gif
As is the norm on this forum, almost every little bit of audio minutia tends to get over-analyzed to death. When it comes to a terrific, world-class action movie like Avengers, I'd suggest to anybody that they simply pop the disc in and either enjoy it or not. Stop worrying whether it extends to 10hz, 15hz, or OMG no, only 20hz!eek.gif It is a top-notch film both sonically and visually even if it isn't the ultimate in bass extension. For those of you who need to live on bass extension alone, why not just get rid of your main speakers entirely and run low frequency tone sweeps for enjoyment.

Well, you are going from one extreme to another. I made sure my system has a full range balance from top to bottom. Avengers is a great flick to watch because the movie is awesome with great video and overall audio(of course not the best of the best). You know we are just disappointed that it was not a 5 star bass movie like Tron, WOTW, TIH(hulk is in this movie too!). There were high hopes, that is all. All I can say is I watched this 5 times at the theater and now I have seen it twice at home. The home mix sounds better but it is not the recording but my speakers and subs. It seems this is the theatrical mix on bluray because the bass is almost the same as it was in the theater but in my room I move much more air. This movie could never meet THX specs, which means 6 dBs down at 20hz where this is more like 20 dBs down at 20hz. Was it enjoyable, of course, this movie is enjoyable on a lap top. As I said before, the vocals and score were all crystal clear at reference which helps a bunch. I think there was one quick sound that could have clipped(That I noticed). This movie was much better than Immortals but watch the beginning of Immortals and the big difference is the dynamic track Immortals has, you can feel the tension before something is going to happen(not just from the subs). Of course they clipped a couple scenes in that one as well. I don't expect movies to be perfect.
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post #73 of 278
9/27/12 at 8:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

Thanks a lot bosso. I hope the best of you and your subwoofer endeavors (still going to have an 18" for DIY?). You really stand your ground and I always get something out of your posts. I hope you can stick around.
That's a real bummer guys. It looks like you got most of this at the theater, and could get the jist of it with and emotiva ref12.



Who in here buys movie just for a few scene with infrasonic rumbles? I thought folks purchase movies because they enjoyed it at the theater or that think it was a good movie.
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post #74 of 278
9/27/12 at 9:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Wow. Just...wow.
The idea that you actually believe that someone else's opinion re your opinion on the matter of how something sounds requires "data" is really what's completely baseless and unwarranted, sir.
Yes, a movie without- wait for it- sub 25hz bass can absolutely be an A level affair. Yes, it can.
As "professional" (you know, clogs like this: http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Avengers-Blu-ray/30654/ and this: http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/09/26/marvels-the-avengers-blu-ray-review) and "amateur" (lmao) reviews alike have already nearly unanimously indicated, this is one of them. Great scene-appropriate bass content? Check. Great bass dynamics? Check. Great bass realism? Check. Oh, and a fantastic 7 channel mix, to boot? Check.
The absolute, inarguable STANDARD of cinematic audio? Ummm, prolly not. But, imperatively, not a soul has said or even inferred such, of course. Even more imperatively: the aforementioned has nothing to do with THIS movie offering an A level bass/sound experience.
Coming in and littering otherwise productive, entertaining threads with this drum-beating sub 20hz rhetoric is beyond old and tiring at this point. We get it, you feel insulted and cheated over such things.
Can we move on now? I know I cannot be the only one nauseous over it by now. You have your 10hz disciples...how many more do you need to "convert" until the rest of us are spared?
Thanks in advance.
James

^^^ Another great contribution. rolleyes.gif

So, I take it your vote is thumbs up? Really, I couldn't tell from your rant. It appears that you defer your opinion to written reviews. Well and good, but please try to restrain yourself to offering your opinion about the sound and include a bit less "Here's what I hate about other's opinions..." nonsense.

You don't have ULF capability, so it's irrelevant to you. We get it. Can you move on now, maybe to start your own thread, like Master List Of Movies Without Bass, Or Charts, Or Peak Hold Graphs That James Decrees To Be "A Level"?
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post #75 of 278
9/27/12 at 9:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Wow. Just...wow.
The idea that you actually believe that someone else's opinion re your opinion on the matter of how something sounds requires "data" is really what's completely baseless and unwarranted, sir.
Yes, a movie without- wait for it- sub 25hz bass can absolutely be an A level affair. Yes, it can.
As "professional" (you know, clogs like this: http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Avengers-Blu-ray/30654/ and this: http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/09/26/marvels-the-avengers-blu-ray-review) and "amateur" (lmao) reviews alike have already nearly unanimously indicated, this is one of them. Great scene-appropriate bass content? Check. Great bass dynamics? Check. Great bass realism? Check. Oh, and a fantastic 7 channel mix, to boot? Check.
The absolute, inarguable STANDARD of cinematic audio? Ummm, prolly not. But, imperatively, not a soul has said or even inferred such, of course. Even more imperatively: the aforementioned has nothing to do with THIS movie offering an A level bass/sound experience.
Coming in and littering otherwise productive, entertaining threads with this drum-beating sub 20hz rhetoric is beyond old and tiring at this point. We get it, you feel insulted and cheated over such things.
Can we move on now? I know I cannot be the only one nauseous over it by now. You have your 10hz disciples...how many more do you need to "convert" until the rest of us are spared?
Thanks in advance.
James

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

Well put, James. smile.gif
As is the norm on this forum, almost every little bit of audio minutia tends to get over-analyzed to death. When it comes to a terrific, world-class action movie like Avengers, I'd suggest to anybody that they simply pop the disc in and either enjoy it or not. Stop worrying whether it extends to 10hz, 15hz, or OMG no, only 20hz!eek.gif It is a top-notch film both sonically and visually even if it isn't the ultimate in bass extension. For those of you who need to live on bass extension alone, why not just get rid of your main speakers entirely and run low frequency tone sweeps for enjoyment.

Guys.....*ahem* this IS the bass thread afterall. It is a simple fact that this movie does NOT meet the standards of a full quality, modern bass track. I'm happy that you like it and find it "realistic" but in reality we don't hear with a 30hz high pass filter. Infrasonics are in our lives all the time whether you notice or not. That being said, films that contain full bandwidth bass sound much better and much more realistic than Avengers. Hey, you really like the movie and it's got enough bass for you. I'm glad you like it but the purpose of this thread is to find the best of the best and the Avengers is average at best. Get over it and enjoy and let the rest of us that desire a full quality soundtrack continue that pursuit.

Whether or not someone wants to own or watch the movie for any reason.....what's that to you? Either way the context of this thread and the waterfall thread IS BASS. Plain and simple. Again, the Avengers is nothing special at all in regards to the context of this thread.....which is it's bass.
Edited by Scott Simonian - 9/27/12 at 10:06am
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post #76 of 278
9/27/12 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Who in here buys movie just for a few scene with infrasonic rumbles?

I do. Is that suddenly a crime?
Quote:
I thought folks purchase movies because they enjoyed it at the theater or that think it was a good movie.

Folks in this, the largest subwoofer sub-forum in the world, buy their systems based nearly 100% on the recommendations of others. Many of them refer to the efforts of folks like Ed Mullen, Ilkka Rissanen, Charlie Whiteside and Josh Ricci, who have kindly put themselves out in mammoth efforts to provide objective test data to help in the difficult decision of how to spend one's hard earned cash to reproduce the low end content in modern digital source amid a sea of choices and opinions.

Kudos to them, without whose actual data the process would be to ask someone like you what he thinks.

Posting data on the actual content vs almost always errant opinions on the content is just as useful, and I'm glad for those who have taken the time to do so over the years.

Why people buy whatever movies to fill their libraries is irrelevant.
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post #77 of 278
9/27/12 at 9:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Guys.....*ahem* this IS the bass thread afterall. It is a simple fact that this movie does meet the standards of a full quality, modern bass track. I'm happy that you like it and find it "realistic" but in reality we don't hear with a 30hz high pass filter. Infrasonics are in our lives all the time whether you notice or not. That being said, films that contain full bandwidth bass sound much better and much more realistic than Avengers. Hey, you really like the movie and it's got enough bass for you. I'm glad you like it but the purpose of this thread is to find the best of the best and the Avengers is average at best. Get over it and enjoy and let the rest of us that desire a full quality soundtrack continue that pursuit.
Whether or not someone wants to own or watch the movie for any reason.....what's that to you? Either way the context of this thread and the waterfall thread IS BASS. Plain and simple. Again, the Avengers is nothing special at all in regards to the context of this thread.....which is it's bass.
\

"Ahem" confused.gif You may want to check where you are. You have strayed from your comfortable little ULF 5 star nonsense (there's that ugly word again rolleyes.gif) thread.
This is the:
The Avengers Blu-Ray Bass and General Discussion Thread ...
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post #78 of 278
9/27/12 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

\
"Ahem" confused.gif You may want to check where you are. You have strayed from your comfortable little ULF 5 star nonsense (there's that ugly word again rolleyes.gif) thread.
This is the:
The Avengers Blu-Ray Bass and General Discussion Thread ...
Nice!
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post #79 of 278
9/27/12 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Well, you are going from one extreme to another. I made sure my system has a full range balance from top to bottom. Avengers is a great flick to watch because the movie is awesome with great video and overall audio(of course not the best of the best). You know we are just disappointed that it was not a 5 star bass movie like Tron, WOTW, TIH(hulk is in this movie too!). There were high hopes, that is all. All I can say is I watched this 5 times at the theater and now I have seen it twice at home. The home mix sounds better but it is not the recording but my speakers and subs. It seems this is the theatrical mix on bluray because the bass is almost the same as it was in the theater but in my room I move much more air. This movie could never meet THX specs, which means 6 dBs down at 20hz where this is more like 20 dBs down at 20hz. Was it enjoyable, of course, this movie is enjoyable on a lap top. As I said before, the vocals and score were all crystal clear at reference which helps a bunch. I think there was one quick sound that could have clipped(That I noticed). This movie was much better than Immortals but watch the beginning of Immortals and the big difference is the dynamic track Immortals has, you can feel the tension before something is going to happen(not just from the subs). Of course they clipped a couple scenes in that one as well. I don't expect movies to be perfect.

You do seem to have a system that is capable of of "full bandwidth" reproduction. I have seen others systems where the subs are laughably huge as compared to the rest of their loudspeakers. For a great sounding HT, it is all about balance and sound quality at your desired SPL level. Systems can be imbalanced in either direction.IMHO smile.gif
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post #80 of 278
9/27/12 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

\
"Ahem" confused.gif You may want to check where you are. You have strayed from your comfortable little ULF 5 star nonsense (there's that ugly word again rolleyes.gif) thread.
This is the:
The Avengers Blu-Ray Bass and General Discussion Thread ...

I know where I am. This is the Avengers Bass and General Discussion. The lack of Avengers bass is quite the subject in here. rolleyes.gif

Also, if the waterfall thread is just a "little ULF 5 star nonsense" thread.... does that mean you won't be in there filling it with your nonsense?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

You do seem to have a system that is capable of of "full bandwidth" reproduction. I have seen others systems where the subs are laughably huge as compared to the rest of their loudspeakers. For a great sounding HT, it is all about balance and sound quality at your desired SPL level. Systems can be imbalanced in either direction.IMHO smile.gif

The physical size one system has no bearing on it's 'imbalance'. It's funny you mention that because most people around here with small, incapable subs have their levels inbalanced in the wrong direction. wink.gif
Edited by Scott Simonian - 9/27/12 at 10:01am
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post #81 of 278
9/27/12 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Guys.....*ahem* this IS the bass thread afterall. It is a simple fact that this movie does meet the standards of a full quality, modern bass track. I'm happy that you like it and find it "realistic" but in reality we don't hear with a 30hz high pass filter. Infrasonics are in our lives all the time whether you notice or not. That being said, films that contain full bandwidth bass sound much better and much more realistic than Avengers. Hey, you really like the movie and it's got enough bass for you. I'm glad you like it but the purpose of this thread is to find the best of the best and the Avengers is average at best. Get over it and enjoy and let the rest of us that desire a full quality soundtrack continue that pursuit.
Whether or not someone wants to own or watch the movie for any reason.....what's that to you? Either way the context of this thread and the waterfall thread IS BASS. Plain and simple. Again, the Avengers is nothing special at all in regards to the context of this thread.....which is it's bass.

Scott, I assume what you mean to say is: "It is a simple fact that this movie does not meet the standards of a full quality, modern bass track."? That is a matter of opinion. If the bass which is present is good enough to convey the overall flow of action taking place on the screen, IMO it does what's asked of it. As far as what's realistic, how many "Tesseract machines" have you heard in person lately?

Personally, in my room I can achieve reference level dynamics down to mid-teens without strain. What I have learned from this Avengers debacle is the the persuit of single digit playback, while certainly not a bad thing, is of relatively miniscule importance when compared with having reference-capable dynamics throughout the more audible range. I already kind of knew that, but the fact that the Avengers sounded as good as it did with only having strong content down to 25hz or so simply served to reinforce it for me.
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post #82 of 278
9/27/12 at 10:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

Scott, I assume what you mean to say is: "It is a simple fact that this movie does not meet the standards of a full quality, modern bass track."?

Lol, yeah. The computer I type on frequently misses keystrokes and lags when I type too fast. tongue.gif Thanks. biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

As far as what's realistic, how many "Tesseract machines" have you heard in person lately?

Many. And I'll tell you.... they are annoying as hell to keep in one place. tongue.gif
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post #83 of 278
9/27/12 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

^^^ Another great contribution. rolleyes.gif
So, I take it your vote is thumbs up? Really, I couldn't tell from your rant. It appears that you defer your opinion to written reviews. Well and good, but please try to restrain yourself to offering your opinion about the sound and include a bit less "Here's what I hate about other's opinions..." nonsense.
You don't have ULF capability, so it's irrelevant to you. We get it. Can you move on now, maybe to start your own thread, like Master List Of Movies Without Bass, Or Charts, Or Peak Hold Graphs That James Decrees To Be "A Level"?

Thanks for the compliment, it just seems you accidentally placed a sarcastic smiley beside it. No biggie.

Not surprisingly others agree with me. Go figure.

A bit of reading comprehension would serve you well after having digested the above. Good grief.

No "ULF capability"? Lmao...yeah, with just 100+db 15hz output in my room, sounds about right, considering the source. Absolutely no meaningful bass to be found in my room.

If you need assistance comprehending my posts, may I suggest an English tutor? Either way, please don't force the balance of us to wade through your textual bile only to discover you've flew over the point like an F-17 over an ant hill.

Again, thanks in advance.

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 9/27/12 at 10:29am
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post #84 of 278
9/27/12 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

\
"Ahem" confused.gif You may want to check where you are. You have strayed from your comfortable little ULF 5 star nonsense (there's that ugly word again rolleyes.gif) thread.
This is the:
The Avengers Blu-Ray Bass and General Discussion Thread ...

+ about 5,395,921

Remember it's not a top-tier sports car if it can't eclipse 200mph.

dreadful.

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 9/27/12 at 10:28am
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post #85 of 278
9/27/12 at 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

You do seem to have a system that is capable of of "full bandwidth" reproduction. I have seen others systems where the subs are laughably huge as compared to the rest of their loudspeakers. For a great sounding HT, it is all about balance and sound quality at your desired SPL level. Systems can be imbalanced in either direction.IMHO smile.gif

I agree, I have seen those to and many recommend subs over speakers first when asking about putting together a system. It starts with goals and the speakers and subs should be looked at as one speaker playing whatever frequencies they desire. I had dynamic capability with my speakers first so I tried to match with the subs and went crazy and so I had to go crazy with both. I am a crazy, but I am a balanced crazy!
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post #86 of 278
9/27/12 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

Well put, James. smile.gif
As is the norm on this forum, almost every little bit of audio minutia tends to get over-analyzed to death. When it comes to a terrific, world-class action movie like Avengers, I'd suggest to anybody that they simply pop the disc in and either enjoy it or not. Stop worrying whether it extends to 10hz, 15hz, or OMG no, only 20hz!eek.gif It is a top-notch film both sonically and visually even if it isn't the ultimate in bass extension. For those of you who need to live on bass extension alone, why not just get rid of your main speakers entirely and run low frequency tone sweeps for enjoyment.

Nice one. Honestly, it's pointless with the usual suspects and I will readily take blame for even engaging in a "debate" revolving around such cretinous logic. The 800lb gorilla in the room is of course: positively fantastic movie soundtracks/bass can (and do) exist WITH and WITHOUT sub 20hz content. Now, getting people to understand that fact is another matter altogether.

James
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post #87 of 278
9/27/12 at 10:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

Scott, I assume what you mean to say is: "It is a simple fact that this movie does not meet the standards of a full quality, modern bass track."? That is a matter of opinion. If the bass which is present is good enough to convey the overall flow of action taking place on the screen, IMO it does what's asked of it. As far as what's realistic, how many "Tesseract machines" have you heard in person lately?
Personally, in my room I can achieve reference level dynamics down to mid-teens without strain. What I have learned from this Avengers debacle is the the persuit of single digit playback, while certainly not a bad thing, is of relatively miniscule importance when compared with having reference-capable dynamics throughout the more audible range. I already kind of knew that, but the fact that the Avengers sounded as good as it did with only having strong content down to 25hz or so simply served to reinforce it for me.

I disagree that is it realistic, I have felt deeper bass in my garage slamming the door of my car. Trucks going by all day have ULF's vibrating my counters and seats at my office. This never happened during the Avengers and I am pretty sure there were things going on with much more impact. Real life means ULF's are involved. Actually, nevermind ULF's, how about at least to 20hz for IMAX or THX theaters. I think having those real effects are the coolest thing along with the 20-100hz stuff.
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post #88 of 278
9/27/12 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I agree, I have seen those to and many recommend subs over speakers first when asking about putting together a system. It starts with goals and the speakers and subs should be looked at as one speaker playing whatever frequencies they desire. I had dynamic capability with my speakers first so I tried to match with the subs and went crazy and so I had to go crazy with both. I am a crazy, but I am a balanced crazy!

You realize that balanced crazy is an oxymoron ... tongue.gifwink.gif
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post #89 of 278
9/27/12 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post


No "ULF capability"? Lmao...yeah, with just 100+db 15hz output in my room, sounds about right,

You still have about 10-15dB or more to make up for with that "100+dB 15hz output". The reference spec for digital multichannel surround is 115dB 3-120hz at the seat. Keep working on that. wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

+ about 5,395,921
Remember it's not a top-tier sports car if it can't eclipse 200mph.
dreadful.
James

Why is this thread in the subwoofer section if we can't talk about it's average bass? Lol! There is a discussion of the movie in the movie section. More than one thread, actually. Obviously this was the thread made to talk about it's awesome bass. rolleyes.gif
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post #90 of 278
9/27/12 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

You realize that balanced crazy is an oxymoron ... tongue.gifwink.gif

Yeah, it was supposed to be funny.
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