or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › 2.35:1 Constant Image Height Chat › New Panamorph Lens Coming Soon
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

New Panamorph Lens Coming Soon - Page 5

post #121 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post

Hopefully my answers and pictures above help you understand the compromises and how they actually affect the image.

One thing I am always pointing out on the Forum is that the Panamorph lens systems are prism / cylindrical hybrids, not strictly "prism-based."

Thanks for the great response! You helped me to get the things sorted, especially the "workaround" with the ECC correction with Sony.

One more thing: You always mention that the lens is not chromatic corrected. Would this increase the cost? I also read on a other threat that a curved screen could also help to correct the chromatic errors. Is this really true?

Thanks
Cheers
S.
post #122 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by avsform1 View Post

Ok... I jumped in on the A-Lens setup and the lens is on its way. Any suggestions for framing it up with an RS4810 and 103 curve screen? Any particular patterns to use? I see that the manual advices to use the A setting from the anamorphic setting. Should I put the lens in place, set the lens mode at A, bring up the lens control pattern?

ThANKS

The 4810 should have the standard JVC test pattern built in, which is just fine for dialing in the CineVista. So yes, put the lens in place and pull up the test pattern. No need to put the projector in mode A for the test pattern since it does not affect it, Mode A is just for actual video content.

The only other advice would be to try and keep your throw ratio at around 3X screen height smile.gif

BTW, CineVista setup is essentially the same as the UH480 setup, so you can watch the install video on the Panamorph support page. You can ignore all the mounting information, but the tips on how to align the image at the end will be helpful:

http://www.panamorph.com/8-support/videos

In fact, that is a JVC test pattern in the video wink.gif

Enjoy!
post #123 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepardos View Post

Thanks for the great response! You helped me to get the things sorted, especially the "workaround" with the ECC correction with Sony.

One more thing: You always mention that the lens is not chromatic corrected. Would this increase the cost? I also read on a other threat that a curved screen could also help to correct the chromatic errors. Is this really true?

Thanks
Cheers
S.

Yes, adding chromatic correction definitely increases cost. Our UH480 lens is the next step up the Panamorph line and does include chromatic correction, but is more than double the price.

A curved screen will help dial out pincushion but does nothing to remedy chromatic errors.

Enjoy your new lens smile.gif
post #124 of 163
Speaking of ECC and the Sony, Chris Heinonen's review of the CineVista is up on Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity. Chris paired the CineVista with a Sony HW50 projector and an SI screen. Enjoy!:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/video-accessories-misc/video-accessories-misc/affordable-anamorphic-system.html
post #125 of 163
John Schuermann

Can I get away with using a 166" 1.3 gain (Cinema vision Da-Lite) screen, with a Sony VPL-HW50ES and the cinevista lens? I may have to run the Sony at high power but heard it's quite silent anyways.

With the anarmorphic lens I am not wasting any brightness above and below the screen like I would using lens zoom (am I correct?). I am hoping the cinevista lens will be the final solution in my quest for a 166" screen.

The room is a basement room, and the screen will be 40 feet away from the closets window. But at day time it could get some light, but not much. I prefer to watch at nights anyways. So, light should not be an issue.

I am not a fan of higher gain screens due to the highly restrictive view angles.

Your recommendation/opinion is highly appreciated. Thanks!

P.S: if not, how about a 146" scope screen?
Edited by pcarfan - 4/1/13 at 9:04am
post #126 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcarfan View Post

John Schuermann

Can I get away with using a 166" 1.3 gain (Cinema vision Da-Lite) screen, with a Sony VPL-HW50ES and the cinevista lens? I may have to run the Sony at high power but heard it's quite silent anyways.

With the anarmorphic lens I am not wasting any brightness above and below the screen like I would using lens zoom (am I correct?). I am hoping the cinevista lens will be the final solution in my quest for a 166" screen.

The room is a basement room, and the screen will be 40 feet away from the closets window. But at day time it could get some light, but not much. I prefer to watch at nights anyways. So, light should not be an issue.

I am not a fan of higher gain screens due to the highly restrictive view angles.

Your recommendation/opinion is highly appreciated. Thanks!

P.S: if not, how about a 146" scope screen?

I've been following your comments on the "Can I get away with a 2.35:1 screen for my home theater with a JVC RS46?" thread so I have your room specs from there.

Yes, an anamorphic lens like the CineVista means that no light is lost to the black bars. The increase in brightness over zooming can be as much as 30%, with typical results being around 20% brighter than the zoom method. It works like this: by using all of the pixels you increase light output from the projector by about 33% (since you are using 33% more pixels to draw the image). However, about 3 - 5% of the added brightness is lost by passing it through the extra glass of the anamorphic lens. That leaves around a 30% net gain. As some have pointed out, though, opening up the projector lens for the zoom method also increases light output of the projector. That is why its safer to expect about a 20% increase in brightness using an anamorphic lens in typical setups compared to zoom, all things being equal.

As much as I'd love to be able to recommend the CineVista, and as much as it would help resolve your brightness issue, the truth is that your proposed projector location is well outside the recommended focus range of the lens itself. Sixteen foot back is about the maximum I would recommend for projector placement when paired with the CineVista. Further than that then focus will suffer. If I understand you correctly, that is simply not possible. That means you will need to look at the Panamorph UH480, which can be adapted to work at that throw. However, your price more than doubles. On the positive side, the 480 has no chromatic aberration so is a superior lens (plus can be upgraded to add a manual or motorized transport at a later date).

With an anamorphic lens you *may* be able to get away with the 166" 1.3 gain screen and the Sony. I personally run a JVC HD750 with a 144" Stewart StudioTek 130 and it is just bright enough using our DC1 lens. As you noted, the Sony is brighter, so you might be ok. The main thing to keep in mind - as others have pointed out - is that projector bulbs dim over time, so I always recommend buying a couple of spares and swapping out when the bulb starts to dim noticeably. Some people don't notice the dimming at all (since it happens gradually over a fairly lengthy period of time) while others notice it pretty quickly.

Right now, the safest and least expensive setup would be the JVC using auto-zoom on the smaller screen. The best way to get what you really want is the Sony with a lens, but unfortunately not the CineVista (unless you can move the projector about 5 or 6 ft closer to the screen).

Lastly, don't forget that light control also means a dark colored ceiling and walls when you are talking about a white screen. Otherwise you will get some pretty severe washout from the room itself.

Good luck!
post #127 of 163
Thank you John.
post #128 of 163
so I got the call from the store that I bought my screen from and they are going to ship it out to my place hopefully by the end of today . So I was wondering when i go to set up the cinevista lens , do i set up the projector with the screen without the lens attached or do I attach the lens and set up the projector ? Really looking forward to seeing this bad boy in action ..
post #129 of 163
Set the projector level with whatever vertical shift that is needed and make sure that the horizontal shift is centered or neutral, no side shift or you will get pincushion larger on one side. Take notice of how much vertical shift you use because the lens will have to point in that direction your screen is down for up from the projector(If your projector is parallel center of your screen you will have no need to tilt the lens), this is to even out pincushion from corner to corner. You will probably need 1/2" to 1" inch blackout border to straighten out edges (138" screen from 17' throw) because all lens produce pincushion (debatable). And last make sure your 6x9 image is centered and touching up and down borders.
Set your lens (HS) hardware parallel to projector lens and set your lens, as close as you can to projector lens and last tilt your lens to whatever horizontal shift you have. The more you configure before lens install will minimumsize pincushion. Don't try to reduce pincushion to nothing it will not happen unless you have a 12 thousand dollar lens with a long throw on a small screen. Remember big screen short throw 12' or less = more pincushion. Even a cinavista, I know I have one.
post #130 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpl0220 View Post

Set the projector level with whatever vertical shift that is needed and make sure that the horizontal shift is centered or neutral, no side shift or you will get pincushion larger on one side. Take notice of how much vertical shift you use because the lens will have to point in that direction your screen is down for up from the projector(If your projector is parallel center of your screen you will have no need to tilt the lens), this is to even out pincushion from corner to corner. You will probably need 1/2" to 1" inch blackout border to straighten out edges (138" screen from 17' throw) because all lens produce pincushion (debatable). And last make sure your 6x9 image is centered and touching up and down borders.
Set your lens (HS) hardware parallel to projector lens and set your lens, as close as you can to projector lens and last tilt your lens to whatever horizontal shift you have. The more you configure before lens install will minimumsize pincushion. Don't try to reduce pincushion to nothing it will not happen unless you have a 12 thousand dollar lens with a long throw on a small screen. Remember big screen short throw 12' or less = more pincushion. Even a cinavista, I know I have one.

What he said wink.gif

You can also watch the UH480 install video on the Panamorph site. Much of the info in this video also directly applies to the CineVista:

http://www.panamorph.com/8-support/videos
post #131 of 163
Thanks guys ! I'll let you know how it turns out when I get it up and running smile.gif
post #132 of 163
Joe,

I finally got my PJ and my Cineview set up properly with the help an engineer at JVC. However I see 5 colored bars at the very cotton of the screen. Its like a 400Hz humbar that is black, green and red. Any idea why im getting this?
post #133 of 163
Subtitles and bluray menu with 2.35:1 are they not suppose to display in the screen with an anamorphic lens.
post #134 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by avsform1 View Post

Subtitles and bluray menu with 2.35:1 are they not suppose to display in the screen with an anamorphic lens.

Depends on whether that text was printed in the working part of the image or spilled over into the "black bars" on the top and bottom. Anamorphic vertical stretch crops out those bars and any text that was printed there. Some projectors can now move the text up into the image, however.
post #135 of 163
I'm able to move subtitles ups with the shift on my bluray player, but menus are cropped off.
post #136 of 163
Menus are cropped as they are 16:9 not 2:35:1 aspect ratio.


Quote:
Originally Posted by avsform1 View Post

I'm able to move subtitles ups with the shift on my bluray player, but menus are cropped off.
post #137 of 163
I'm starting my new build and the CineVista has gotten me interested in going to 2.35 CIH. I have a very shallow room however - throw distance is 115" (9'7"), seating about 9' even.

Before looking at scope, I has settled on a 92" 16:9 (80x45) which is the largest practical image I can get from my Epson 8350 (yes, external scaler) zoomed wide about 90%. Feels pretty good to me for this AR. But I have the wall space to blow the 45" height out to 2.35 (105x45)

The posted specs state that the minimum TR based on height for the CV is 2.5. My ratio for the 45" height / 9'7" throw is right at 2.55 or 1.44 based on the 16:9 width. I understand this is fairly low and wanted to make sure that it's not going to vignette or cause major problems.

I also understand that pincushion will be an issue at this distance - used Aussie Bob's calculator and came up with 2%. I haven't purchased a screen yet and have considered the Elite Lunette which has a 40' curve - not enough to eliminate, but surely it would help a little?

So those in the know - for this scenario, 2:35 yay or nay? Thanks!
post #138 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowkarver View Post

I'm starting my new build and the CineVista has gotten me interested in going to 2.35 CIH. I have a very shallow room however - throw distance is 115" (9'7"), seating about 9' even.

Before looking at scope, I has settled on a 92" 16:9 (80x45) which is the largest practical image I can get from my Epson 8350 (yes, external scaler) zoomed wide about 90%. Feels pretty good to me for this AR. But I have the wall space to blow the 45" height out to 2.35 (105x45)

The posted specs state that the minimum TR based on height for the CV is 2.5. My ratio for the 45" height / 9'7" throw is right at 2.55 or 1.44 based on the 16:9 width. I understand this is fairly low and wanted to make sure that it's not going to vignette or cause major problems.

I also understand that pincushion will be an issue at this distance - used Aussie Bob's calculator and came up with 2%. I haven't purchased a screen yet and have considered the Elite Lunette which has a 40' curve - not enough to eliminate, but surely it would help a little?

So those in the know - for this scenario, 2:35 yay or nay? Thanks!

My biased opinion is go 2.35 at all cost. 1.44 TR may be pushing it. For instance, even though my lens will allow me to go to 1.3x, i will vignette with my current projector at 1.4x because of its recessed lens. My advice is to save the screen purchase for last just to make sure. Then if you had to go with a 41" high screen(Elite 103" 2.35 screen) you still have a decent 16x9 image size. My personal preference is that anything below 1.8x starts needed the correction of a curved screen due to the PC distortion it causes. Using AussieBob's calc you probably need a radius closer to 20-25ft though. May want to think about custom radius screen or make your own. Closeness of projector lens to A-lens and tilt of A-lens needed all effect your final minimum TR.
post #139 of 163
Good idea on screen last. I'd really like to avoid dropping the image height all the way down to 40" though. Gaming and 16:9 broadcasts fall below the immersion threshold for me in this room.

I'm going to give Panamorph a call and see what their advice is. Fortunately my pj lens sticks way out of the case, and I should have little lens tilt as the mount is pretty much within the screen height.
post #140 of 163
I believe the FVX200, though twice the price of the Cinevista, was a better lens:


http://hometheaterreview.com/panamorph-fvx200j-anamorphic-lens-system-reviewed/
post #141 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowkarver View Post

I'm starting my new build and the CineVista has gotten me interested in going to 2.35 CIH. I have a very shallow room however - throw distance is 115" (9'7"), seating about 9' even.

Before looking at scope, I has settled on a 92" 16:9 (80x45) which is the largest practical image I can get from my Epson 8350 (yes, external scaler) zoomed wide about 90%. Feels pretty good to me for this AR. But I have the wall space to blow the 45" height out to 2.35 (105x45)

The posted specs state that the minimum TR based on height for the CV is 2.5. My ratio for the 45" height / 9'7" throw is right at 2.55 or 1.44 based on the 16:9 width. I understand this is fairly low and wanted to make sure that it's not going to vignette or cause major problems.

I also understand that pincushion will be an issue at this distance - used Aussie Bob's calculator and came up with 2%. I haven't purchased a screen yet and have considered the Elite Lunette which has a 40' curve - not enough to eliminate, but surely it would help a little?

So those in the know - for this scenario, 2:35 yay or nay? Thanks!

You have this pretty much figured out smile.gif Yes, you will have pincushion and yes you will be better off with a curved screen.

There is very little chance if the CineVista vignetting in this situation.
post #142 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardia View Post

I believe the FVX200, though twice the price of the Cinevista, was a better lens:


http://hometheaterreview.com/panamorph-fvx200j-anamorphic-lens-system-reviewed/

Better in some ways, not in others.

Positives of the FVX200:


Extreme picture sharpness and highest overall brightness

Chromatic aberration is in the vertical only, and in slightly less than one pixel at the top and bottom extremes (in other words, extremely difficult to see)

Negatives of the FVX200:


Has to be used in a fixed configuration with a 2.35:1 / 2.40:1 screen (you cannot remove the lens for higher resolution 16:9 viewing)

Requires a long throw (4.3X picture height)

Shorter throws result in barrel distortion (not correctable with a curved screen)

Positives of CineVista:

Can be used at shorter throw distances and ratios

Can be removed for higher resolution 16:9 viewing

Shorter throws result in pincushion distortion, but correctable with a curved screen

Negatives of CineVista:

Chromatic aberration more noticeable (though can be corrected with most current LCD and LCOS projectors)

Hope this helps!
post #143 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post

Better in some ways, not in others.

Positives of the FVX200:


Extreme picture sharpness and highest overall brightness

Chromatic aberration is in the vertical only, and in slightly less than one pixel at the top and bottom extremes (in other words, extremely difficult to see)

Negatives of the FVX200:


Has to be used in a fixed configuration with a 2.35:1 / 2.40:1 screen (you cannot remove the lens for higher resolution 16:9 viewing)

Requires a long throw (4.3X picture height)

Shorter throws result in barrel distortion (not correctable with a curved screen)

Positives of CineVista:

Can be used at shorter throw distances and ratios

Can be removed for higher resolution 16:9 viewing

Shorter throws result in pincushion distortion, but correctable with a curved screen

Negatives of CineVista:

Chromatic aberration more noticeable (though can be corrected with most current LCD and LCOS projectors)

Hope this helps!

Yes, thank you. After 1 month of looking into this, I'm gonna go with a BD motorized 100" 16:9 screen and the RS4810. This is my first projector so i will live with it for couple of years and after I remodel the house, I will go with a 140" or larger 2:35:1. This is a good start for my current set up. I have a 50" Kuro now so it will be 100% bigger image!!!
post #144 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardia View Post

Yes, thank you. After 1 month of looking into this, I'm gonna go with a BD motorized 100" 16:9 screen and the RS4810. This is my first projector so i will live with it for couple of years and after I remodel the house, I will go with a 140" or larger 2:35:1. This is a good start for my current set up. I have a 50" Kuro now so it will be 100% bigger image!!!

You mean 400%? biggrin.gif
post #145 of 163
No, I mean the 100" screen will be 100% bigger...tongue.gif
post #146 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post

You have this pretty much figured out smile.gif Yes, you will have pincushion and yes you will be better off with a curved screen.

There is very little chance if the CineVista vignetting in this situation.

Thanks John. Picked up my CineVista this weekend. Can't wait to try it out on the wall. Unfortunately, the curved screen will have to wait a couple of months until my build is further along smile.gif
post #147 of 163
The Cinevista looks to be the bang for buck in the current line of low cost lenses. I will be getting one to replace my current CAVX MKII dual prism. My thought is to get a Sony HW50 for a PJ on a 100" Seymour XD......Dreaming is the best....
post #148 of 163
Before you throw your CAVX MkII lens away, make sure this Panamorph lens is an upgrade. I've a feeling they both perform very similarly (coated optics but still have CA).

http://cavx.blogspot.co.uk/2007/04/4-prism-lens.html

Gary
post #149 of 163
I think that would depend on whether or not the CAVX lens is astigmatism corrected. I'm not familiar with the CAVX so can't comment directly on that topic.

For the record, the CineVista is astigmatism corrected.
post #150 of 163
I believe that was an upgrade option that is no longer available, wonder if its still worth the upgrade to the CineVista from the MKII rolleyes.gif
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › 2.35:1 Constant Image Height Chat › New Panamorph Lens Coming Soon