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7.1 bitstream through hdmi

post #1 of 16
9/27/12 at 8:23am
Thread Starter 
I searched everywhere in this thread and could only really find articles related to 7.1 hdmi passthrough. I just picked up an onkyo tsxr804 for a great deal and went and hooked it up. I put in the avengers which has 7.1 dts hd. Now on my receiver I see no listening mode for dts hd or dolby true hd. The receiver auto detected it as "neo:6" and when i cycle through the settings i just get the standard dolby plIIx and thx modes. The sony is set to hdmi auto, hdmi priority, bd mixing off. what sound mode must be set on my receiver to receiver the 7.1 dts hd?
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post #2 of 16
9/27/12 at 9:26am
Nice choice on receiver. I have the same one. ;-)

Just to be clear, you're referring to two difference things in your post.

DTS MA and True HD are encoded audio formats. Meaning, the signal is encoded when it leaves the back of your Blu-Ray player.

You need a receiver or processor that can decode this signal.

The Onkyo 804 cannot decode DTS MA or Dolby True HD streams.

However, it's internal DA converters *CAN* convert PCM to 96khz high resolution audio, for up to 7.1 channels.

You need to set the output on your device to "PCM" and your receiver to "Multichannel PCM"
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post #3 of 16
9/27/12 at 9:29am
Thread Starter 
thank you for the quick reply!

So will there be any loss in sound quality/surround sound with the multichannel PCM instead of DTS MA or Dolby True HD?

Thanks again for the help, I had it running optical on my old receiver and wanted to get true 7.1 from my blurays, I saw the onkyo for 150 bucks used and assumed it could do the lossless 7.1 through the hdmi.
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post #4 of 16
9/27/12 at 9:32am
No loss in sound quality, you're just decoding it in the player instead of the receiver. Still getting lossless sound.
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post #5 of 16
9/27/12 at 9:42am
Thread Starter 
I did as you recommended and set it to pcm and my receiver does read it as pcm multichannel.

However, when i hit display it shows the movie as 48khz 3/2.1 and I get nothing out of my rear speakers?

I also do not have a center channel, I just assume this shouldn't affect the rear speakers but I might as well add the info here in case its important.

EDIT: reading the manual it states that over hdmi the supported multichannel linear pcm is (5.1 ch, 32-96khz, 16/20/24 bit) so now i'm wondering if this receiver can even handle 7.1 lossless.
Edited by sweetcriminal - 9/27/12 at 9:48am
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post #6 of 16
9/27/12 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcriminal View Post

I did as you recommended and set it to pcm and my receiver does read it as pcm multichannel.
However, when i hit display it shows the movie as 48khz 3/2.1 and I get nothing out of my rear speakers?
I also do not have a center channel, I just assume this shouldn't affect the rear speakers but I might as well add the info here in case its important.
EDIT: reading the manual it states that over hdmi the supported multichannel linear pcm is (5.1 ch, 32-96khz, 16/20/24 bit) so now i'm wondering if this receiver can even handle 7.1 lossless.

I think you're getting tripped up on what Lossless audio is.

See this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lossless_compression#Audio

As I said above, this receiver cannot decode DTS MA or Dolby Digital True HD.

It can however, process PCM data up to 96khz/24bits.
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post #7 of 16
9/27/12 at 10:04am
Thread Starter 
hmmm that's a lot of info about lossless, well let me ask you this then. It does process the pcm data coming from the bluray which should be the 7.1 pcm correct? The receiver itself is only allowing it to do 5.1. I get nothing from the rear channels with it frown.gif only time i can get sound is with dolby pliix or one of the other sound processing algorithms

So it that how its suppose to be with pcm?
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post #8 of 16
9/27/12 at 10:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hernanu View Post

No loss in sound quality, you're just decoding it in the player instead of the receiver. Still getting lossless sound.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to muddy the water.

PCM is how the data is sent to the receiver.

Lossless audio is a generic term that refers to a dozen or so audio formats. ALAC, FLAC, TrueHD, etc.
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post #9 of 16
9/27/12 at 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcriminal View Post

hmmm that's a lot of info about lossless, well let me ask you this then. It does process the pcm data coming from the bluray which should be the 7.1 pcm correct? The receiver itself is only allowing it to do 5.1. I get nothing from the rear channels with it frown.gif only time i can get sound is with dolby pliix or one of the other sound processing algorithms
So it that how its suppose to be with pcm?

Be sure you have your receiver setup properly. Make sure it knows you have 4channels, and which ones are large/small.
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post #10 of 16
9/27/12 at 10:26am
Thread Starter 
I had it auto setup with the mic and then I went in and modified the frequency on them all to 80hz. Fronts are klipsch kg 5.4 surrounds are klipsch kg 3.2, and rears are kg 2.5. Center is turned off. Zone 2 is set to nonact.levels and distance are all set. Not sure what else to check here. Thank you for you support in this BTW this forum and yourself seem very knowledgeable.
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post #11 of 16
9/27/12 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalJason View Post

I'm sorry, I don't mean to muddy the water.
PCM is how the data is sent to the receiver.
Lossless audio is a generic term that refers to a dozen or so audio formats. ALAC, FLAC, TrueHD, etc.

True, but in this case, the OP's question was "So will there be any loss in sound quality/surround sound with the multichannel PCM instead of DTS MA or Dolby True HD?"

Since his AVR is not capable of decoding these lossless formats, the answer to his question was that the translation of the lossless formats he specified by the player into PCM and then transmitted to his AVR would not cause a loss in sound quality when it comes out of his speakers.

If he had specified the other formats, the answer may or may not have been different.
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post #12 of 16
9/27/12 at 10:56am
I know, this is turning into your own personal support thread.

:-)

When you play a test tone through your receiver, can you get all channels?

What is your "sony" device?

What media type of the Avengers are you playing? DVD, Blu-ray, etc...
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post #13 of 16
9/27/12 at 11:03am
Thread Starter 
Nsz-gt1 I do believe. Its the first Google TV Sony bluray player.

The avengers is bluray as well. And test tone registers all speakers.

Thank you smile.gif
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post #14 of 16
9/27/12 at 11:30am
Thread Starter 
I was reading up on a higher end onkyo that has 1.3hdmi and this is what I came across.
"But in the meantime, the Onkyo will accept multichannel PCM via HDMI. The Dolby TrueHD soundtracks I auditioned for this review were decoded and converted to multichannel PCM by the players. Uncompressed multichannel PCM tracks came over HDMI to the receiver in full resolution. And DTS-HD Master Audio could be auditioned only from the basic DTS core track that's part of every DTS-HD Master Audio soundtrack. There are no players at present that can decode DTS-HD MA. "

The avengers 7.1 is DTS-HD so I'm assuming that my blueray can't decode the format and thus is only sending the 5.1 through pcm.

When I get home I'll throw in 3:10 to yuma which is strictly just 7.1 lcpm, see if it makes a difference.
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post #15 of 16
9/27/12 at 11:58am
The Reference Guide for the Sony Internet TV claims it can provide "DTS HD Master Audio bit stream" and "Linear PCM (8ch: Up to 96kHz)" on its HDMI output, but I can't find any statement specifying what formats it can decode. It has the DTS logo for "Advanced Digital Out" (the best of their lossy formats) but not one for lossless Master Audio. This might imply that it can't decode the MA format.
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post #16 of 16
10/1/12 at 5:21pm
You are really missing out not having a dedicated center channel speaker...
Another option is to pick up a new or used blu-ray disc player with analog 7.1 outputs, and use the multi-channel inputs on your 804. I did this with my lg bd390 and my paansonic sahe200 before I had an hdmi receiver. You would be hard pressed to tell the difference between analog and digital DTS-MA HD.

https://www.google.com/search?q=blu-ray+player+with+analog+outputs&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=CpW&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&sclient=psy-ab&q=blu+ray+player+with+analog+7.1+outputs&oq=blu-ray+player+with+analog+7.1outputs&gs_l=serp.1.0.0i7i30j0i8i7i30.41929.43595.0.46986.3.3.0.0.0.0.137.354.0j3.3.0.les%3Beesh..0.0...1.1.GXGeOmJmJb0&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=5659cd20974b9196&biw=1440&bih=748

from page 57 of the 804 manual:

The multichannel DVD input is for connecting a component
with a 5.1/7.1-channel analog audio output, such as
a DVD player, DVD-Audio/SACD-capable player, or an
MPEG decoder. See page 28 for hookup information.

from page 28:
Hooking Up the Multichannel DVD Input
If your DVD player supports multichannel audio formats such as DVD-Audio or SACD, and it has a multichannel
analog audio output, you can connect it to the AV receiver’s multichannel DVD input.
Use a multichannel analog audio cable, or several normal audio cables, to connect the AV receiver’s DVD IN FRONT
L/R, CENTER, SURROUND L/R, SURR BACK L/R, and SUBWOOFER jacks to the 7.1-channel analog audio output
on your DVD player. If your DVD player has a 5.1-channel analog audio output, don’t connect anything to the AV
receiver’s SURR BACK L/R jacks. See “Using the Multichannel DVD Input” on page 57 for setup and operation.
Edited by myoda - 10/1/12 at 5:49pm
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