The Avengers 3D (Blu-ray) Official AVSForum Review - Page 3

Originally Posted by TMcG 

You could have the best system in the world, but if you don't set up the room properly and have the equipment calibrated for optimal performance, you are doomed with poor quality sound right from the start because of the room - and no amount of room correction software can fix the problem.

Originally Posted by adpayne 

This is very harsh, and seems elite'ish, as well.
How can you say that all of us with good equipment are getting "poor sound" due to room limitations? Personally, I use Audyssey for correction, and it sounds fantastic! Could it be a bit better? Maybe, but it certainly is not poor sounding. I read a lot of reviews, and Ralph has some of the best equipment that I've seen. The fact he uses front projection is very useful to me as my dedicated room has FP as well.
Maybe you should focus your criticism on reviewers with 32" 720p LCDs, and sound bars?

Originally Posted by Ralph Potts 

Greetings,
I could spend the next twenty minutes of my time explaining the acoustics in my room and why it is setup the way it is based upon measurements and placement options but I will forego that because it seems rather obvious that you have made up your mind.I think that in your own words "you don't know what you don't know" applies to you as well. Closet Geek very eloquently explained my purpose here. It is the same for many writers. You have no intimate knowledge of the systems/setups of most reviewers so I would assume that your questions would apply to most. In general readers gauge my evaluations based upon their own experience with the same titles. When they tend to find similar experiences a bond of reliance/trust forms and they return when I comment on a title they are interested in.
No one is making any claims other than to offer an opinion. Anyone that isn't interested in that is free to look elsewhere. You're are more than welcome to do that if you feel that there is no serious information here worth gleening.
Regards,

Originally Posted by Ralph Potts 


The Review at a Glance: (max score: 5 )

Originally Posted by wse 

Thank you for the review but why did they release this in 16:9 instead of 2:35!!!

Originally Posted by Toe 


Agreed. Even without seeing the nasty 30hz filter in the charts, I could tell the extension was not there on this track in relation to other tracks I have heard in my room like Battle LA, Tron, WotW, Cloverfield, TIH, Hannah, etc.......A lot of the LFE was very similar as well and this might also be the by-product of the 30hz filter. My subs and Buttkickers were just not pushed with the Avengers like they are with the better and best LFE tracks out there like the ones mentioned above. I watched Cabin in the Woods right after Avengers yesterday and that LFE track had noticeably better extension, output and variety. TIH is a natural comparison as well considering the Hulk is in this movie and there is no contest there.....TIH kills this track in every aspect as far as LFE is concerned (and otherwise). Having said that, I still enjoyed this track a lot from a LFE perspective and otherwise. This movie is loaded with bass and it hits pretty hard as well. Would love to hear it without the filter!

The rest of the track was very good as well, but not quite reference IMO. Reference surround work are tracks like Avatar, TIH, Hellboy 2, Transformers Dark of the Moon, etc......Avengers was a notch below these type tracks, but again still very good if not quite reference IMO.

I thought the 2d video was reference however and I was very impressed from that perspective! This was the first movie I watched with a Darbee in the chain though, so that might have something to do with it.

Next watch I will check out the 3d. Hope my RS45 does not ghost to badly with it.

Originally Posted by wingnutks 

I absolutely loved this movie in the theaters and was pumped when it came out on blu ray. However, I bought the 2D blu ray version... it played fine until it froze at scene 13. No scratches on the disc, but I brought it back to exchange for a new one anyway. The new one froze at the exact same spot in the movie. Anyone heard if there are any bad batches of the 2D blu ray version released?

Originally Posted by Franin 

what player were you using ?

Originally Posted by gbaby 

It really depends upon the frequency response of your sub. I was at a friend's home last night and he pop in the movie, but due to his weak sub, I felt I was missing more than 50% of the low frequency material.

Originally Posted by Taranteacher 

Quite frankly I agree with ClosetGeek, we are indeed "irregular" Joe's who go into these threads willing to have a good fun time watching -- and, of course, listening to -- a movie at home (and, why not? reading reviews), oftentimes without insanely expensive equipment and/or room acoustic treatments.
Ralph, pay little attention to TMcG (or others of the like), as all of us who indeed look forward to your "opinion" remain grateful, if not faithful, to your time and dedication. It's been very little time I've actively participated in these forums, but you can count me in as another reader interested in your say.
TMcG, regardless of how much expertise you may have -- "we don't know what we don't know" -- how would YOU claim the audio in Avengers Blu-ray is when compared against, say, Transformers 3? Scratch that, why don't you go ahead and give a more "professional" choice of audio track against which to make a comparison -- regardless of the environs in which you enjoy (or rather, test) your movies? Please, we are owed at least that much, wouldn't you agree?
On a side note, one could argue that, in those famous three rooms you, TMcG, mentioned where they gradually showed you the difference upon upgrading acoustic treatments, the electronics were also tweaked (and made to look like all things were considered equal -- one simply does not know what one does not know!) to give a more perceptible result by "regular" people (not saying that YOU are regular, as you have made it quite clear you are not, just saying) in an attempt to sell a product, God forbid anyone would ever do something like that in the home theater market! Thanks for the food for thought you started, though!
Cheers!

Originally Posted by TMcG 

Look, would a video projector be reviewed in a room filled with sunlight? No. So too would audio not be reviewed in a completely untreated room. The video is relatively easy to review - just have a completely darkened room with a fully-calibrated projector and look for artifacts in the transfer, color accuracy, etc. The audio is much more difficult, compounded by a room not calibrated for the audio. Room correction software may have been run and tweaked manually to the listener's taste, but that only gets a person so far until the room itself is treated as an equal instrument that can (does) affect the sound tremendously.
This is a hobby of enjoyment by all of us, regardless of system cost. I am a regular Joe just like most of the folks here on this forum. I have been in this hobby for close to 27 years since the first CD players came out and got me hooked as a young teenager. As my income grew through the years I went through a constant state of upgraditis as most of us do. I don't turn over equipment quite as often anymore, but still look to get every last bit of performance I paid for. Considering that the room is a HUGE factor in the final sound, I actually delved into an active DSP from QSC and hired an outside professional calibrator to work their magic. I thought my system sounded very good before - but I didn't know what I didn't know until I had the room acoustically analyzed and treated, topped off with professional calibration. What an incredible difference it made for about a $2750 total outlay ($1250 for calibration and about $1500 for all the acoustic treatments, fyi). It was well worth the money if you have the system to support it, which clearly Ralph does. However, my only comment was that no investment had been made in acoustic treatments for the room which is surprising considering the investment in the equipment.
Thanks to Ralph for his time writing the reviews in his spare time.

Originally Posted by Taranteacher 

Thanks for sharing, TMcG. I have to admit I hadn't considered acoustic treatments until I took a peek into forums such as this. I used to think it all ended up being about how good your gear was --silly me! On the other hand, I am happy, for now, with a budget 7.1 system and a relatively small Passive-3D TV, so it's fair to say I am in no position to even consider upgrading to (like I said before) insanely expensive equipment and/or room acoustics. 2750 dollars minus electronics etc?! Congrats for being able to spend as much, really! I am now your fan! I suspect watching a movie with your setup is at least just like being at an IMAX theater (of which, I am a fan as well)!
Still, you haven't answered the question I asked regarding comparing the sound on this movie against any other. Sarcastic as I may have sounded, I was honestly curious about your opinion (which obviously was, and is, better than mine). Maybe it's because you haven't had time to check it out four yourself, but once you do, I'd like to hear it from you. Thanks again! And, yes, thanks Ralph!

Originally Posted by mtbdudex 

My 10 yr old daughter loved this movie so much, she had to then see Thor, Iron Man, and Captain America and watch them for background, as she never saw them.
She's never been into Superhero movies.....now she is because of Avengers.

Originally Posted by Ralph Potts 

Greetings,
I could spend the next twenty minutes of my time explaining the acoustics in my room and why it is setup the way it is based upon measurements and placement options but I will forego that because it seems rather obvious that you have made up your mind.I think that in your own words "you don't know what you don't know" applies to you as well. Closet Geek very eloquently explained my purpose here. It is the same for many writers. You have no intimate knowledge of the systems/setups of most reviewers so I would assume that your questions would apply to most. In general readers gauge my evaluations based upon their own experience with the same titles. When they tend to find similar experiences a bond of reliance/trust forms and they return when I comment on a title they are interested in.
No one is making any claims other than to offer an opinion. Anyone that isn't interested in that is free to look elsewhere. You're are more than welcome to do that if you feel that there is no serious information here worth gleening.
Regards,

Originally Posted by TMcG 

The system I spoke of was at my last house, just prior to taking a position with a European company. Until recently, I have not had the opportunity to rebuild the system that I sold. I have a dedicated space now in my basement for which I am planning on building a full-on dedicated front projection theater system. The thread is not active at the moment (as you can see in my signature), but will be soon. From the beginning I have budgeted for professional design assistance with the acoustic treatments in a room I designed with an Art Deco old-time movie palace style. I had sketched the whole theater in scale but it is now being converted to AutoCAD and professionally analyzed for the internal acoustic environment before framing even starts.
Most of my new system is still in the factory packaging at the moment and the rest is yet to purchase, so I cannot give a review of how this movie's picture or soundtrack compares to anything else at the moment. However, I will share with you this one little tidbit - I always try to get natural sounds right and let the rest of the sounds follow suit. What do I mean by this? If I can get the human voice, instruments and other sounds to sound great, then the spaceships, dying aliens, exploding planets, Hulk grunts and time machine sounds will sound like the acoustic designer intended since they master the soundtrack with highly-accurate and highly-calibrated studio monitor systems in acoustically treated sound studios. You can never calibrate to an Alien biting some guys head off and eating it because it doesn't exist. But if you can calibrate so music and voices right, everything else falls right into place. Just my two cents.
And by the way, $2750 may sound like a lot, but after over 25 years of building up my system, it is less than most people spend a year on smoking, eating out, clothing, vacations, etc. - none of which are present or high on my personal purchase list. And having not spent ANYTHING in nearly 6 years during my time in Europe, I am itching to get the theater set up right since we plan to be in our current home for some time. I don't know where you are at, but I could probably arrange a demo after it is done if you find yourself in the Charlotte, NC area - maybe even to watch the Avengers!!