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Paradigm Monitor Series 7 - Very disappointed - serious quality control issues and manufacturing...

post #1 of 38
9/28/12 at 10:55am
Thread Starter 
For those of you that have not read the first thread, please see below:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1426852/questions-regarding-quality-of-brand-new-out-of-the-box-paradigm-speakers

When I purchased these Paradigm speakers, I was under the impression that they were one of the best, if not the best speaker manufacturer’s in the world, so maybe I had somewhat high expectations for the general look, quality, and feel of their speakers. They no longer produce/assemble the Monitor line of speakers in Canada, and have since switched production facilities since the new Series 7 was released from Canada to China. This is not to say that the Chinese cannot supply a good quality product, because many products are manufactured in China nowadays, but this is not the case with these Series 7 Monitor's from Paradigm.

The first set of speakers arrived with the surrounds in the drivers faded and dried out. They felt as if they were about to crack. There were also issues with the magnets Velcro coming apart in the speaker. These can be seen by the pictures from the first thread.
I attempted to deal directly with Paradigm regarding the issues and my concerns. They are not willing to deal directly with consumers, and want you to go through your purchasing dealer. The dealer has not been responsive and has been slow to resolve concerns.

Fast forward a few weeks until I received the replacement speakers. I was at a loss of words for what I received. One box was perforated by a sharp object, which I understand occurred during transportation, but what boggled my mind, is that all of the replacement issues had manufacturing flaws/quality control issues. I mean honestly, they looked like they were “B” stock merchandise or something that you would purchase as a “scratch and dent”. I know that these issues are not normal nor should be expected, especially at the price point of these speakers. I will attach some pictures below. The vinyl used is quite cheap, the panels do not align properly, the materials feel cheap, there are chips and discoloration, etc…

Please see some pictures below:

paradigm center channel flaw.jpg 247k .jpg file
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post #2 of 38
9/28/12 at 10:59am
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paradigm damage 3.jpg 253k .jpg file
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post #3 of 38
9/28/12 at 11:00am
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Paradigm surround 2.jpg 465k .jpg file
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post #4 of 38
9/28/12 at 11:00am
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Paradigm surround.jpg 277k .jpg file
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post #5 of 38
9/28/12 at 11:11am
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Paradigm tower flaw.jpg 276k .jpg file
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post #6 of 38
9/28/12 at 12:19pm
Appears to be quality control issues in china. Make them take them
Back and think about upgrading to the Studio or SE series. Still made in
Canada and you will be much happier in the long run. I have Monitor
5 and 6 series and they look better after 4 years than those.
Edited by grasshoppers - 9/28/12 at 12:30pm
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post #7 of 38
9/28/12 at 12:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

Appears to be quality control issues in china. Make them take them
Back and think about upgrading to the Studio or SE series. Still made in
Canada and you will be much happier in the long run. I have Monitor
5 and 6 series and they look better after 4 years than those.

I agree 100%. the issue is that Paradigm forces the customer to go through the purchasing dealer, and they are not willing to rectify issues at the corporate level. This pymamid that they have with the chain of command is ridiculous. My dealer is unresponsive, and when responding, very slow to do anything. he does not have inventory or a store front, and operates out of his house:) And this is a "dealer" that Paradigm has chosen to represent them.

The SE series do not interest me, because I have the Montor 11's, Center 3, and Surround 3's. The SE tower is based on the Monitor 9, the center on the Center 1, and no bipole surrounds in that series. I would love to have the Stidio 60 or 100 with the Studio 590, but the price jump is huge, and they are discontinuing the Studio Version 5's shortly, so it would not be a smart move at this time. Now if Paradigm were to work with me directly and cut me a deal for all of the trouble, that would be a different story, but that would be wishfull thinking, by their response and dealings so far.
Edited by addictaudio - 9/28/12 at 12:51pm
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post #8 of 38
9/28/12 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addictaudio View Post

the issue is that Paradigm forces the customer to go through the purchasing dealer, and they are not willing to rectify issues at the corporate level. This pymamid that they have with the chain of command is ridiculous.
That's why they have dealers. It's the whole point. To deal with customers. That's how it's supposed to work. You're being kind of unreasonable about that.
Quote:
My dealer is unresponsive, and when responding, very slow to do anything. he does not have inventory or a store front, and operates out of his house:) And this is a "dealer" that Paradigm has chosen to represent them. .... Now if Paradigm were to work with me directly and cut me a deal for all of the trouble, that would be a different story, but that would be wishfull thinking, by their response and dealings so far.
Your main problem is really that you're working with a lousy dealer. Just have him take them all back and start over if you're not happy.

And while it's good when companies try to make up for problems they've caused, there's not always a good way to do that. Your wishful thinking that Paradigm corporate is going to cut you a deal is unreasonable too.
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post #9 of 38
9/28/12 at 1:40pm
My Millenia One 5. speaker system and my Studio 10v5's fit and finish were drop dead perfect. Maybe the cheaper line of speakers are not made the same way.
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post #10 of 38
9/28/12 at 2:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHASLS2 View Post

My Millenia One 5. speaker system and my Studio 10v5's fit and finish were drop dead perfect. Maybe the cheaper line of speakers are not made the same way.

Yes, by what I have seen and heard, the new Monitor Series took a drastic cut in quality/fit/finish donwhill. Even my 10-year old Polk RTI line of speakers that were made in Mexico look a lot better.
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post #11 of 38
9/28/12 at 2:15pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzy_ View Post

That's why they have dealers. It's the whole point. To deal with customers. That's how it's supposed to work. You're being kind of unreasonable about that.
Your main problem is really that you're working with a lousy dealer. Just have him take them all back and start over if you're not happy.
And while it's good when companies try to make up for problems they've caused, there's not always a good way to do that. Your wishful thinking that Paradigm corporate is going to cut you a deal is unreasonable too.

While I agree that every manufacturer may have dealers for sale and support, they should be able to rectify issues and listen to customers, versus FORCING them back to the purchasing dealer. I had read on several instances where the purchasing dealer goes out of business, and the customer is SOL, as Paradigm was not willing to assist in those circumstances. Kind of like when you purchase a car and have issues, you can alwasy take it to the dealership, but when the issues are many and repeated, the manufacturere must step in to rectify and make the situation right.
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post #12 of 38
9/28/12 at 3:49pm
Its a real bummer to have biought something new that was less than perfect. I am sorry to hear about your situation.

But after reading and re-reading this thread, I must ask the million dollar question. Was the dealer who operates out of his house an "authorized" Paradigm dealer?

For your sake, I hope they are indeed an authorized dealer and if so, they should be taking an active stance in making you happy. Tell them you have not called them out yet on the internet by revealing their name but are about too if you do not receive satisfaction. If it was me, I would not even want replacements. I would ask for my money back and go elsewhere because of the negative experience. Most reputable dealers who are authorized by the manufacturer, would gladly do this.

If they are not authorized, then that explains a lot about the dealers lack a cooperation. But it's the chance we take when we try to save a buck and purchase "grey" market goods

Good luck to you - I hope it works out..
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post #13 of 38
9/28/12 at 4:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post

Its a real bummer to have biought something new that was less than perfect. I am sorry to hear about your situation.
But after reading and re-reading this thread, I must ask the million dollar question. Was the dealer who operates out of his house an "authorized" Paradigm dealer?
For your sake, I hope they are indeed an authorized dealer and if so, they should be taking an active stance in making you happy. Tell them you have not called them out yet on the internet by revealing their name but are about too if you do not receive satisfaction. If it was me, I would not even want replacements. I would ask for my money back and go elsewhere because of the negative experience. Most reputable dealers who are authorized by the manufacturer, would gladly do this.
If they are not authorized, then that explains a lot about the dealers lack a cooperation. But it's the chance we take when we try to save a buck and purchase "grey" market goods
Good luck to you - I hope it works out..

Thank you sir for the understanding. They are authorized, as I made sure of that before I purchased. I am trying to be VERY understanding, because they also installed a complete HT system for me (besides just the speakers that I purchased from them), but did not do a good job, and operated unethically when quoting me for installation. They provided a per hour charge for installation, but when billing came around, they wanted to charge me for double the actual hours spent, because two technicians worked on the installation. Of course I did not agree to pay such fee, because when I was quoted, I was quoted a flat hourly fee, and there was no mention that it was an hourly rate per technician that they sent out. They will need to come back out to iron out a few issues and reinstall the new system.

I sent an e-mail out to Paradigm with all of the pictures that I have and explanation regarding quality control. Up to this point, no one at Paradigm has given me the contact information for someone in management, so I e-mailed the ones that I had on my list. Let us see what will be their response, if any, or if they will insist that I must work their quality control issues out with the purchasing dealer.
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post #14 of 38
9/28/12 at 4:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addictaudio View Post

I I would love to have the Stidio 60 or 100 with the Studio 590, but the price jump is huge, and they are discontinuing the Studio Version 5's shortly, so it would not be a smart move at this time. Now if Paradigm were to work with me directly and cut me a deal for all of the trouble, that would be a different story, but that would be wishfull thinking, by their response and dealings so far.

This is I guess where our thought process differs. The Studio version 5 are great
Speakers,a huge step up from the monitor series. When they go to the new version
Of the studios the v5''s will be heavily discounted. This will be a great time to get the
Studios. The new v6 will cost more with possibly only marginal differences in sound.
This was my thought process when I snagged my v2 Signatures at about a 50%
Discount under original pricing. I consider that I made a "smart move" for what
I received.

Oh and find a NEW dealer that operates a traditional brick and mortar store front
Operation with some inventory. Good Luck.
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post #15 of 38
9/28/12 at 4:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

This is I guess where our thought process differs. The Studio version 5 are great
Speakers,a huge step up from the monitor series. When they go to the new version
Of the studios the v5''s will be heavily discounted. This will be a great time to get the
Studios. The new v6 will cost more with possibly only marginal differences in sound.
This was my thought process when I snagged my v2 Signatures at about a 50%
Discount under original pricing. I consider that I made a "smart move" for what
I received.
Oh and find a NEW dealer that operates a traditional brick and mortar store front
Operation with some inventory. Good Luck.

Thanks. It is too late now though to do this, as I had already made the purchase, and do not have the time to wait until the Studio V5's are actually discontinued.
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post #16 of 38
9/28/12 at 4:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addictaudio View Post

Thanks. It is too late now though to do this, as I had already made the purchase, and do not have the time to wait until the Studio V5's are actually discontinued.

Yeah,sorry, thought about that after I posted. Can You get your dealer to refund the price of the bad speakers? If you paid
for installation then all wiring and connections to AVR and related equipoment are already done. It would be easy
to hook up 2 wires to each speaker.
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post #17 of 38
9/28/12 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzy_ View Post

That's why they have dealers. It's the whole point. To deal with customers. That's how it's supposed to work. You're being kind of unreasonable about that.
Your main problem is really that you're working with a lousy dealer. Just have him take them all back and start over if you're not happy.
And while it's good when companies try to make up for problems they've caused, there's not always a good way to do that. Your wishful thinking that Paradigm corporate is going to cut you a deal is unreasonable too.

Bingo. Many companies operate this way.
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post #18 of 38
9/28/12 at 5:23pm
When I got my first pair of Dynaudio x12's in cherry one of the speakers had a faint miscolor on the back, I found it after I had the speakers about a month when I was moving them. I called my dealer, not only did they send me out a completely new set of speakers but they paid all expenses and picked up the defective speakers.... I just bought my second pair of higher end Dynaudios for my new reading room... perfect. Same dealer? you bet! And do I love the sound of these speakers!

Rob
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post #19 of 38
9/28/12 at 7:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzy_ View Post

And while it's good when companies try to make up for problems they've caused, there's not always a good way to do that. Your wishful thinking that Paradigm corporate is going to cut you a deal is unreasonable too.

I completely disagree. This person entered an agreement with a dealer to exchange currency for product. He also entered an implied agreement with the product manufacture that his specific example would be up to the level of quality that their brand is known for. Its like when you buy a Silex coffee machine at a grocery store. You fully expect to replace it soon. But if you bought a Kitchen Aid or a Keurig or something you would expect it to have high quality and durability because that is what experience has taught us.

Paradigm has shipped two sets of bad inventory out its door to ONE person its almost funny when you think about it. If you are not in the manufacturing industry you might think that a few bad units leaving the factory isn't a big deal but believe me someone is getting chewed out for this somewhere. Unless your (pardon me but SUPER SKETCHY) dealer hasn't reported it properly.

Here is why Paradigm should go out of its way to fix this over 200 people have viewed this story, not just 200 people but 200 people who are likely to make a speaker purchase in the next 12 months. I for one can say from this sorry display that it wont be a Paradigm! unless its used ofc.

An example of proper customer service http://popgoestheweek.com/2012/09/amazon-gives-fans-free-copy-of-avengers-to-replace-10-disc-set-preorder/
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post #20 of 38
9/28/12 at 7:36pm
Now that we know that this installer is an authorized dealer, this changes everything.

Paradigm is right to tell the consumer to take the matter up with their dealer. Usually a dealer will act to make their customer totally happy and protect the integrity of the product that they are authorized to sell.
But if the dealer is not being cooperative, then this should be reported to Paradigm who should now take an active interest in the behavior of one of their dealers. Paradigm must realize that the dealer represents Paradigm and often in the eyes of the consumer, is Paradigm. Per eption is everything when buying and selling.

The dealer in this case is not only running the risk of an unhappy customer who is broadcasting his problem on the internet, but is doing a disservice and ruining the integrity of a brand that he is authorized to sell and represent. I would think Paradigm would step in and correct the situation by ordering their delaler to provide a new pair to the customers complete satisfaction. Certainly Paradigms reputation is worth more than one replacement pair of Monitor 7's.
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post #21 of 38
9/28/12 at 8:06pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick_si View Post

I completely disagree. This person entered an agreement with a dealer to exchange currency for product. He also entered an implied agreement with the product manufacture that his specific example would be up to the level of quality that their brand is known for. Its like when you buy a Silex coffee machine at a grocery store. You fully expect to replace it soon. But if you bought a Kitchen Aid or a Keurig or something you would expect it to have high quality and durability because that is what experience has taught us.
Paradigm has shipped two sets of bad inventory out its door to ONE person its almost funny when you think about it. If you are not in the manufacturing industry you might think that a few bad units leaving the factory isn't a big deal but believe me someone is getting chewed out for this somewhere. Unless your (pardon me but SUPER SKETCHY) dealer hasn't reported it properly.
Here is why Paradigm should go out of its way to fix this over 200 people have viewed this story, not just 200 people but 200 people who are likely to make a speaker purchase in the next 12 months. I for one can say from this sorry display that it wont be a Paradigm! unless its used ofc.
An example of proper customer service http://popgoestheweek.com/2012/09/amazon-gives-fans-free-copy-of-avengers-to-replace-10-disc-set-preorder/

BINGO! We are in 100% agreement. I have notified Paradigm directly regarding these issue on both occasions. I have sent them over 20 pictures. I pleaded with them to resolve these issues directly with them, but they keep sending me back to the same purchasing dealer. Not one appologgy up until now, or nothing to sweaten the deal for my trouble and time involved. No calls or contact from management, despite my numerous requests. I have been dealing with "technical support" this entire time. It takes a lot of energy and time to pack and repack these speakers, load and unload them from the car, take them to the dealer, go back to the dealer, etc...
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post #22 of 38
9/28/12 at 8:12pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post

Now that we know that this installer is an authorized dealer, this changes everything.
Paradigm is right to tell the consumer to take the matter up with their dealer. Usually a dealer will act to make their customer totally happy and protect the integrity of the product that they are authorized to sell.
But if the dealer is not being cooperative, then this should be reported to Paradigm who should now take an active interest in the behavior of one of their dealers. Paradigm must realize that the dealer represents Paradigm and often in the eyes of the consumer, is Paradigm. Per eption is everything when buying and selling.
The dealer in this case is not only running the risk of an unhappy customer who is broadcasting his problem on the internet, but is doing a disservice and ruining the integrity of a brand that he is authorized to sell and represent. I would think Paradigm would step in and correct the situation by ordering their delaler to provide a new pair to the customers complete satisfaction. Certainly Paradigms reputation is worth more than one replacement pair of Monitor 7's.

I notified them on numerous occasions and expressed my concerns and experiences to no avail. This is an order for a complete set of speakers (1 pair of Monitor 11's, 1 Center 3, and a pair of Surround 3 speakers). Something is going on in their manufacturing process that is causing these issues, and it is widespread in the whole line. Per the pictures, there are issues with the drivers, grills, panels not aligning properly, chips in the vinyl, etc... I am telling you, for the price point of these speakers, they look/feel very cheap. A HUGE step down in my opinion from their previous Version 6 Monitors that used to be built in Canada with real wood veneers, much nicer looking speaker baffles and mounts, etc...
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post #23 of 38
9/28/12 at 8:14pm
Crazy, I've heard the v.7 setup and it sounds great for its price, for movies it's super solid. There's a lot of great speakers in this price point and the paradigm are one of them.
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post #24 of 38
9/28/12 at 8:15pm
Too bad about your problem
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post #25 of 38
9/29/12 at 7:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick_si View Post

I completely disagree. This person entered an agreement with a dealer to exchange currency for product. He also entered an implied agreement with the product manufacture that his specific example would be up to the level of quality that their brand is known for. Its like when you buy a Silex coffee machine at a grocery store. You fully expect to replace it soon. But if you bought a Kitchen Aid or a Keurig or something you would expect it to have high quality and durability because that is what experience has taught us.
Paradigm has shipped two sets of bad inventory out its door to ONE person its almost funny when you think about it. If you are not in the manufacturing industry you might think that a few bad units leaving the factory isn't a big deal but believe me someone is getting chewed out for this somewhere. Unless your (pardon me but SUPER SKETCHY) dealer hasn't reported it properly.
Here is why Paradigm should go out of its way to fix this over 200 people have viewed this story, not just 200 people but 200 people who are likely to make a speaker purchase in the next 12 months. I for one can say from this sorry display that it wont be a Paradigm! unless its used ofc.
An example of proper customer service http://popgoestheweek.com/2012/09/amazon-gives-fans-free-copy-of-avengers-to-replace-10-disc-set-preorder/

+1

Based on the OP's experience with Paradigm, I would be very reluctant to purchase their product. If their dealer is unresponsive Paradigm certainly should step in.
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post #26 of 38
9/29/12 at 7:39am
I wonder how much of the dealer's unresponsiveness is due to the OP disputing the installation bill. Usually a quote will involve an hourly rate and an estimate of the number of hours needed. If the installer estimated 10 hours but used two guys to get it done in 5 hours, it is a different scenario than if he estimated 10 hours at $X per hour and then used two guys to get it done in 10 hours at double the hourly rate.
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post #27 of 38
9/29/12 at 8:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by addictaudio View Post

I agree 100%. the issue is that Paradigm forces the customer to go through the purchasing dealer, and they are not willing to rectify issues at the corporate level. This pymamid that they have with the chain of command is ridiculous. My dealer is unresponsive, and when responding, very slow to do anything. he does not have inventory or a store front, and operates out of his house:) And this is a "dealer" that Paradigm has chosen to represent them.

The SE series do not interest me, because I have the Montor 11's, Center 3, and Surround 3's. The SE tower is based on the Monitor 9, the center on the Center 1, and no bipole surrounds in that series. I would love to have the Stidio 60 or 100 with the Studio 590, but the price jump is huge, and they are discontinuing the Studio Version 5's shortly, so it would not be a smart move at this time. Now if Paradigm were to work with me directly and cut me a deal for all of the trouble, that would be a different story, but that would be wishfull thinking, by their response and dealings so far.
When you buy a Toyota, and have a problem, you try to fix it with the dealer. You don't go to Toyota and expect them to cut you a massive deal on a Lexus "for your trouble".

All you can expect is to get what you paid for. Sure, it's good when companies do more to make up for your trouble. But you can't assume you deserve it, especially what you're asking for. All you can do is return the items, or buy elsewhere the next time.

This situation isn't fair to the original poster, but his expectations and poor handling of the situation are part of the problem.
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post #28 of 38
9/29/12 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzy_ View Post

When you buy a Toyota, and have a problem, you try to fix it with the dealer. You don't go to Toyota and expect them to cut you a massive deal on a Lexus "for your trouble".

Ahem... http://slickdeals.net/f/3749216-Toyota-is-STILL-buying-back-Tacomas-with-rusty-frames-for-150-of-RETAIL-KBB-value-very-YMMV-you-must-own-a-Toyota-Tacoma

It's a choice that companies make to either have great customer service or just acceptable. Are they obliged to do anything Legally? no. But it is probably in their interest to do so. Especially in this niche community that has a lot of communication through these forums.
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post #29 of 38
9/29/12 at 12:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

I wonder how much of the dealer's unresponsiveness is due to the OP disputing the installation bill. Usually a quote will involve an hourly rate and an estimate of the number of hours needed. If the installer estimated 10 hours but used two guys to get it done in 5 hours, it is a different scenario than if he estimated 10 hours at $X per hour and then used two guys to get it done in 10 hours at double the hourly rate.

This was not the case whatsoever, but that is a different subject, and I do not want to polute the thread with a different subject.
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post #30 of 38
9/29/12 at 1:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzy_ View Post

When you buy a Toyota, and have a problem, you try to fix it with the dealer. You don't go to Toyota and expect them to cut you a massive deal on a Lexus "for your trouble".
All you can expect is to get what you paid for. Sure, it's good when companies do more to make up for your trouble. But you can't assume you deserve it, especially what you're asking for. All you can do is return the items, or buy elsewhere the next time.
This situation isn't fair to the original poster, but his expectations and poor handling of the situation are part of the problem.

Buzzy, I appreciate your example, but in this case, the products are arriving blemished and defective from the factory from the get go, so there is no opportunity for service, or no issues have developed after using the speakers for a while. If so, there it would fall within the manufacturer's warranty from Paradigm, which is five years. Would you buy a car with scratches, dents, or dings BRAND new? I assume not, at least most of us would not. You would reasonably ask for another car without those conditions. If not a very unique or exotic car, most dealers would have another one in stock that you could take immediate delivery of. The dealer that I am dealing with has no stock or inventory, so each time that the speakers arrive blemished/flawed, a new set has to be ordered. The issue is that Paradigm has shipped two sets of flawed/blemished/damaged speakers. On the second time around, the dealer should have refused delivery due to the obvious damage that one of the towers suffered, which is evident in one of the pictures.

Even in warranty cases, when the dealer is not able to resolve the issue(s), the consumer is more than welcome and encouraged to contact the manufacturer to express concerns. In many cases, even after years of use, if a vehicle is plagued by isues, the manufacturer will buy back the vehicle under the Lemon Law, and refund all down payment, registration, monthly payments with interest, even installed aftermarket accesories.

The bottom line, is that I do not think that the flaws/blemishes in the two sets of speakers that I have received are isolated issues, and must be widespread, as the flaws/blemishes are not specific to only one compoinet of the speakers. Per the pictures, there were issues with dried/faded driver surrounds, grills, vinyl peeling and not aligning with the other panels, speaker mounts, etc...
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