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SVS PB13 Ultra upgrade question!

post #1 of 27
9/30/12 at 3:55am
Thread Starter 
Hey guys,


I've got the Polk Audio TL2600 speaker package, and I was wanting to make some configurations to my sound system. (The speaker pack includes 4 TL250 satellites, and one TL250 center, and a TL250 subwoofer- 8 inch about 80 watts continous.)

Ive got the money and I wanted to expand this system. My primary concern is the sub, it just doesn't deliver and I really don't think it does justice to how good the satellites really are, because they go HARD.

The sub doesnt go low and I hear it distort frequently on LFE heavy content movies, such as District 9. It can't handle some of my music either. When I put the volume high, bass is absent because it can't handle the load, as its bottoming out! Also, the room is too big for it.


So yeah as I said I have the money for a much better sub and I am REALLY keen on the SVS PB13 Ultra. (Yes I know this is ridiculously over the top.) wink.gif But it has the capability to go low where I want it and fill up the room well. Im really crazy about bass in movie soundtracks and this would deliver.

In order for it to blend in with the speakers I've already got, I'm considering adding a pair of Polk RTI A7's to the front. So I won't have to chuck the crossover too high on the PB13 letting it focus more on what it does best in the lower ranges, DEEP BASS. And I will move the TL250's to the back. Two for the rears and two working as surrounds.


My question is.... Will this work?? I sure hope so because I would love to have this sub after reading all the positive feedback on it!!!! smile.gif

BTW my amp will be able to handle the watt requirments for the 7 speakers as ive already checked it out. The amp is a Yamaha HTR- 6063. So that isn't a problem thankfully!



Thanks for reading my long rant, I look forward to hearing! And I hope this idea doesn't sound too Retarded! biggrin.gif
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post #2 of 27
9/30/12 at 4:46am
How big is your room, LxWxH? It's possible that you would do just as well with a PB12-Plus as with a PB13-Ultra. There are other options also that extend just as low and are just as loud. If you're going for SVS product because you like their design and customer service features, irrespective of competing options, then I totally understand--I'm the same way--but it's hard to recommend a $2000 PB13-Ultra when, for instance, a $1200 sub like the PC12-Plus would serve you equally well. This is especially true when you consider that getting the requisite second sub would run up a $2400 bill if you got PC12-Pluses and a $4000 bill if you tried to run double PB13-Ultras.

Also avoid using "retarded" where you mean "stupid." It's unkind.
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post #3 of 27
9/30/12 at 2:03pm
Thread Starter 
Hey there Saviour,


Thanks for the quick reply, and don't take offense from the word I used. If anything I was being unkind to myself!


I'm glad that you see where I'm coming from. I'm aware there are a lot of other subs out there that can do the job. But I live in New Zealand and the audio market here isn't as sophisticated, let alone the price. We have to pretty much pay double what peopl in the USA pay. I can get a SVS. Products like the Mark Seatons immersive are things I can't get.

I'm really keen for the SVS because of the reasons you identified. SVS customer service is very very exceptional. I've looked at the pb12 + before. It's about $500 less for me and I don't mind dishing out the extra money for the best of the best.

I won't be getting two subwoofers. I may down the track but that will be a long way away.


So getting a pb 13 won't overthrow the rest of the speakers I have identified?
If not then that's my question answered!

Thanks Savior!
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post #4 of 27
9/30/12 at 3:34pm
Roger that. Well, I know no reason why you wouldn't want to use a PB13-Ultra with Polk RTi A7 mains. When you say "overthrow," do you mean that you're concerned that the sub's output will dominate the sound field? Level matching your sub to your mains will take care of this.
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post #5 of 27
10/1/12 at 4:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

Roger that. Well, I know no reason why you wouldn't want to use a PB13-Ultra with Polk RTi A7 mains. When you say "overthrow," do you mean that you're concerned that the sub's output will dominate the sound field? Level matching your sub to your mains will take care of this.


Alright that sounds great! I look forward to getting them soon!

Yeah that was what i meant by overthrowing. i was pretty sure i would just level match the sub with the rest of the speakers, and that would solve the problem. Now i can be certain that it will work. smile.gif
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post #6 of 27
10/1/12 at 5:33pm
Have you looked into the subsonic xs1?
For a sub $1500 subwoofer it beats all subwoofers here in australia in the price range for performance power and build quality.
I myself own the older mki version and even that drops into the low 20's (and im only 16)
You can get it shipped from audio trends
http://www.audiotrends.com.au/Subsonic_XS_1_Mk2_Black.html?action=viewProduct&itemId=571
Certainly a great subwoofer and price isnt an issue.
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post #7 of 27
10/1/12 at 10:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngaudiolover View Post

Have you looked into the subsonic xs1?
For a sub $1500 subwoofer it beats all subwoofers here in australia in the price range for performance power and build quality.
I myself own the older mki version and even that drops into the low 20's (and im only 16)
You can get it shipped from audio trends
http://www.audiotrends.com.au/Subsonic_XS_1_Mk2_Black.html?action=viewProduct&itemId=571
Certainly a great subwoofer and price isnt an issue.

Hey there Youngaudiolover,


Thanks for the reply! Ive never heard of the brand subsonic actually so I wouldn't know how their subs perform. Also, I can't get that sub down here in New Zealand, and that shop doesn't ship large goods to NZ. So yeah im probably sticking to the SVS on this one. smile.gif

By the way, Its nice to hear of sound enthusiasts around our age. Im 18 smile.gif
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post #8 of 27
10/2/12 at 3:20am
Since i have the xs1 mk1 and mk2 i know how they perform.
Theyre a truelly a great subwoofer.
theyre almost tie with the pb13 ultra
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post #9 of 27
10/2/12 at 2:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngaudiolover View Post

Since i have the xs1 mk1 and mk2 i know how they perform.
Theyre a truelly a great subwoofer.
theyre almost tie with the pb13 ultra

Oh right! I wouldn't doubt your judgment then haha
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post #10 of 27
10/4/12 at 6:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngaudiolover View Post

Since i have the xs1 mk1 and mk2 i know how they perform.
Theyre a truelly a great subwoofer.
theyre almost tie with the pb13 ultra

I doubt that very much. All I read was their own hype with no measurements. Based on their own ad it wouldn't match the SVS.
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post #11 of 27
10/4/12 at 8:07am
I'm glad that the users participating in this thread can identify nonsense when they read it smile.gif
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post #12 of 27
10/4/12 at 1:18pm
Savior is totally right on all parts. That said, I have always been a fan of "get the biggest sub you can buy". Therefore, IF you are able to swing the 2K price of a PB13, (which might be as beautiful of a speaker/sub I have ever seen), I would also consider a SubM (maybe slightly used), Dual Epik Empires, FV15HP. Dual VTF15's (just outside your 2K).
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post #13 of 27
10/4/12 at 1:40pm
Really? because ive found alot of great reviews of the sub and alot of happy customers at audio trends.
The only things that match up with the xs1 at audio trends is the paradigm studio sub 12, cabasse santorin 30 (and thats almost 6 grand) sunfire hrs 12
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post #14 of 27
10/4/12 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngaudiolover View Post

Really? because ive found alot of great reviews of the sub and alot of happy customers at audio trends.
The only things that match up with the xs1 at audio trends is the paradigm studio sub 12, cabasse santorin 30 (and thats almost 6 grand) sunfire hrs 12

Do you have any graphs to show the subs performance? What made you say it was close to the SVS sub? On paper it isn't better so maybe you have links showing that it's similar. Have you heard both of them or measured yours?
Don't buy into the fancy word ads, there is a wealth of information here to help people buying subs.
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post #15 of 27
10/4/12 at 5:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

Do you have any graphs to show the subs performance? What made you say it was close to the SVS sub? On paper it isn't better so maybe you have links showing that it's similar. Have you heard both of them or measured yours?
Don't buy into the fancy word ads, there is a wealth of information here to help people buying subs.

I myself work at an audio store "audio trends". And as ive heard the subsonic xs1 against sunfire hrs 12 and all the expensive paradigm subs. And the only subs that can destory the xs1 are more expensive. Ive never heard a sub thats as good, if not, better than the xs1 in the under $1300 price range.
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post #16 of 27
10/4/12 at 8:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngaudiolover View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

Do you have any graphs to show the subs performance? What made you say it was close to the SVS sub? On paper it isn't better so maybe you have links showing that it's similar. Have you heard both of them or measured yours?
Don't buy into the fancy word ads, there is a wealth of information here to help people buying subs.

I myself work at an audio store "audio trends". And as ive heard the subsonic xs1 against sunfire hrs 12 and all the expensive paradigm subs. And the only subs that can destory the xs1 are more expensive. Ive never heard a sub thats as good, if not, better than the xs1 in the under $1300 price range.

Ahh, you work there. wink.gif
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post #17 of 27
10/4/12 at 9:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngaudiolover View Post

I myself work at an audio store "audio trends".

Since you work at Audio Trends, which is a retailer of the XS1, many will say your opinion might be biased. smile.gif
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post #18 of 27
10/5/12 at 12:38am
Thread Starter 
Its alright guys. I'm pretty sure he wasn't trying to mislead anyone intentionally! smile.gif
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post #19 of 27
10/5/12 at 12:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratm View Post

Savior is totally right on all parts. That said, I have always been a fan of "get the biggest sub you can buy". Therefore, IF you are able to swing the 2K price of a PB13, (which might be as beautiful of a speaker/sub I have ever seen), I would also consider a SubM (maybe slightly used), Dual Epik Empires, FV15HP. Dual VTF15's (just outside your 2K).

Oh yes haha thats me. But I'm more inclined to getting it because of how brilliantly it can perform. But yes, the size is very intimidating.

About the other subs, most of those I can't get here. You said the SubM, which I would understand as the submmersive? I cant get that here.

The HSU's I cant either frown.gif

All that being said, you can mostly likely tell that the audio market here isn't very sophisticated. mad.gif
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post #20 of 27
10/5/12 at 12:21pm
Which ones can you get there?
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post #21 of 27
10/5/12 at 4:50pm
Submersive can be imported directly from Mark Seaton. I have a submersive in Australia - although the international version is the original 1000W version not the HP - still very very impressive.
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post #22 of 27
10/5/12 at 8:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

Since you work at Audio Trends, which is a retailer of the XS1, many will say your opinion might be biased. smile.gif

It may be biased, but what i know is it kicks all subs asses in the same price range! And im sure it would keep up with the svs sub
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post #23 of 27
10/5/12 at 9:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngaudiolover View Post

It may be biased, but what i know is it kicks all subs asses in the same price range! And im sure it would keep up with the svs sub

No offense, I'm sure the XS1 is a pretty good sub, but I don't think you know what you are talking about here. Physics are, well, physics, and the small, ported, 12" with 250 watts, and a -3db @ 22Hz isn't going to hold a candle against a PB13-Ultra ( just looking at a couple of the cuff specs: the Ultra's driver alone is ~55 lb's, versus the whole XS1 coming in at ~75 lb's, the Ultra has 4x's the amp, which is good for 6db in added headroom, the Ultra has a dramatically larger enclosure volume, allowing it to be much more efficient). The Submersive is considered to be an even more capable product than the Ultra.

And this isn't merely conjecture, look at Ricci's measurements of the Ultra at data-bass. In it's highest tuning, to make for a more apples to apples comparison, the Ultra is putting out 110.6 db @ 2 meters ground plain at 20Hz with a hair over 5%THD.

Again, I'm glad the XS1 is working well for you, and I'm not bashing it, it is just not in the same league as some of the ID heavy hitters that have been mentioned.
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post #24 of 27
10/5/12 at 11:40pm
I suppose you have a point. Performance wise it will keep up. but will roll off any lower than 22 hz
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post #25 of 27
10/6/12 at 1:17am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by InterestedUser View Post

Submersive can be imported directly from Mark Seaton. I have a submersive in Australia - although the international version is the original 1000W version not the HP - still very very impressive.

Yeah it is one hell of a sub. I think ive seen reviews concluding it is slightly better then pb 13 ultra in some areas. I maybe wrong, but im pretty sure.
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post #26 of 27
10/6/12 at 1:18am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

No offense, I'm sure the XS1 is a pretty good sub, but I don't think you know what you are talking about here. Physics are, well, physics, and the small, ported, 12" with 250 watts, and a -3db @ 22Hz isn't going to hold a candle against a PB13-Ultra ( just looking at a couple of the cuff specs: the Ultra's driver alone is ~55 lb's, versus the whole XS1 coming in at ~75 lb's, the Ultra has 4x's the amp, which is good for 6db in added headroom, the Ultra has a dramatically larger enclosure volume, allowing it to be much more efficient). The Submersive is considered to be an even more capable product than the Ultra.
And this isn't merely conjecture, look at Ricci's measurements of the Ultra at data-bass. In it's highest tuning, to make for a more apples to apples comparison, the Ultra is putting out 110.6 db @ 2 meters ground plain at 20Hz with a hair over 5%THD.
Again, I'm glad the XS1 is working well for you, and I'm not bashing it, it is just not in the same league as some of the ID heavy hitters that have been mentioned.


You make a very fair point, as you back up your claims with evidence. smile.gif
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post #27 of 27
10/6/12 at 6:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngaudiolover View Post

I suppose you have a point. Performance wise it will keep up. but will roll off any lower than 22 hz

Highly doubtful - you need to produce some measurements for that claim.
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