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Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 347

post #10381 of 11283
Has anybody had success bitstreaaming DSD, or more accurately DoP files to the 8801?

Every time I attempt bitstreaaming a DSF file to the 8801, it plays nothing because the 8801 thinks it is a PCM file.

Anybody had success here?
post #10382 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

A great suggestion that I learned from a member here from secrets of hifi:

Zero gain the main speakers and adjust the rest of the speakers accordingly relatively speaking to get the best 2 channel dynamic range possible output possible. Do this after audyssey has done its thing and set the relative volumes for you.

After adjustments the overall quality is improved subjectively with my high sensitivity speakers.

Gonna do another frequency sweep today to be sure mains response is still accurately linear at my usual listening position

So, if I understand you correctly, if Audyssey is done and your L/R are -3.0 dB say, you advocate manually adjusting them to zero, and then adjusting the rest of your speakers by +3db? Just checking before I try it.
post #10383 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by admranger View Post

So, if I understand you correctly, if Audyssey is done and your L/R are -3.0 dB say, you advocate manually adjusting them to zero, and then adjusting the rest of your speakers by +3db? Just checking before I try it.

Thats what I did reduce a step in attenuation for the mains. The downside to this is that your 0db level will no longer be "reference"... but who really cares.

I think if i interpreted the architecture of the marantz correctly, this should be a slightly better setup for the mains signal.

Without a comment from an engineer to confirm, I am not 100% sure about this being the best way to go.
post #10384 of 11283
I have the Integra 80.3 and I bring everything up evenly until a speaker hits zero, my mains are still a few dB negative. I find this greatly improves non Audyssey sound which I do not use for music. Someone told me to avoid positives but I don't know why
post #10385 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwv1080 View Post

Thanks--that worked!
Another satisfied customer! :-)
post #10386 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

I have the Integra 80.3 and I bring everything up evenly until a speaker hits zero, my mains are still a few dB negative. I find this greatly improves non Audyssey sound which I do not use for music. Someone told me to avoid positives but I don't know why

What i was suggesting was to zero the mains and run the other speakers relative to that if possible.
post #10387 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

What i was suggesting was to zero the mains and run the other speakers relative to that if possible.

Why not just adjust the signal using the digital or analog source level? If not mistaken its global, it can be found in the menu and can be raised or lowered for each .
post #10388 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

A great suggestion that I learned from a member here from secrets of hifi:

Zero gain the main speakers and adjust the rest of the speakers accordingly relatively speaking to get the best 2 channel dynamic range possible output possible. Do this after audyssey has done its thing and set the relative volumes for you.

After adjustments the overall quality is improved subjectively with my high sensitivity speakers.

Gonna do another frequency sweep today to be sure mains response is still accurately linear at my usual listening position

Would love to hear more of your results. Keep us posted!! Gain structuring is very important with efficient speakers, especially ones over 100dB. You shouldn't however see much difference in the response at your MLP, but just have more optimized gain structure in general to use all the dynamic capability you paid good money for biggrin.gif Does your amp have external gain controls that you are using to gain match to reference audyssey's reference? I no longer have this on my mains and at least at this point, I have just made the 8801's "-10dB" reading be my reference and all the speakers test toned to 85dB.
post #10389 of 11283
Well my mains have an efficiency around 107db which necessitated -20db pads between the marantz (causing hiss) and my amplifier (which is dead quiet with no preamp). Btw without at least a -10db pad my speakers cant even be corrected by audyssey without hitting the -12db limit.

Audyssey/marantz should mention this last point in the manual.

The center was adjusted by audyssey to -3db which worked just fine.

Thw surrounds are ribbon line sources which are around 95db sensitivity and on those I use crown XLS amplifiers which have notched attenuator knobs ln them. Without attenuation, my entire room sounds like a huge hissing noise. I attenuated with the crown amplifiers for all the surrounds and then ran audyssey. Then after adjusting my mains to zero gain on the marantz i then adjusted all the other amp's gain settings.

Another reasonable option would be to but -10db XLR pads for all the surround speaker's amplifiers.

I have news for folks here: our marantz 8801 is not that great in terms of quality circuitry outside the dac / audyssey part. Marantz owners can claim whatever they want, but honestly it is a mediocre product for high sensitivity speakers.

Plugging an oppo blu ray player straight up to my main amplifier has NONE of the hiss that the marantz makes at idle. Bottom line: Marantz cheaped out on its electronics and therefore I have to resort to all this chicanery to fix my issues.

If oppo ever makes a pre-pro that integrates well, uses multiple sAbre ess dacs and has a decent room correction suite.... The other brands are screwed in the American market. Basically something like a Datasat rs20i for under $5000 would be a winner for me.
post #10390 of 11283
Seems like it's not a good match to your speakers, it certainly has a lot of features I am after for the price, but in your situation I'd be looking at either a cinemike style upgrade that would improve said circuitry or move up the prepro food chain to Bryston, Theta, McT, Classe. DataSat etc to find a good match, only other option us to see if you can get a loaner of another 8801 just to make sure u don't have a lemon
post #10391 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

A great suggestion that I learned from a member here from secrets of hifi:

Zero gain the main speakers and adjust the rest of the speakers accordingly relatively speaking to get the best 2 channel dynamic range possible output possible. Do this after audyssey has done its thing and set the relative volumes for you.

After adjustments the overall quality is improved subjectively with my high sensitivity speakers.

Gonna do another frequency sweep today to be sure mains response is still accurately linear at my usual listening position

Regarding reference volume, trims and audyssey...

 

For sure I am not getting the same volume as others. I watched an entire blu ray at 0 dB (reference) and that should have been too loud but it was not.

I ran audyssey again and it set ALL my trims in the negative. I feel it is setting them too low...I should be getting 75 dB from all speakers including sub on test tone after running Audyssey, correct?

(don't have a meter to test ATM)

 

I turned off Audyssey and played CDs via HDMI from Oppo to both av8801 and NAD M51 DAC (each going direct to amps via an XLR switch for A/B comparison)

To match volumes between the 2 (and get good volume level for listening) I needed;

-5 dB on av8801

-15 dB on NAD

That's without the ~ 8 dB Audyssey would have trimmed from the volume of my FL & FR speakers.

 

So the main volume control on the 8801 is analog, correct?

...and the trim levels are also done in the analog stage?

Are there any other volume controls (by source?, I guess DD does some). Are they all analog too?

 

OK, so IF they are all analog vol. controls ...and some say that adjusting all trims up is identical to adjusting the main volume up by same dB, then I guess that the supposed advantage referred to by blazar would be based on the premise that the analog signal has to pass through an extra level of "processing" to apply any level of trim other than 0 dB.

 

Does that make sense? or any comments?

 

Cheers

post #10392 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

Well my mains have an efficiency around 107db which necessitated -20db pads between the marantz (causing hiss) and my amplifier (which is dead quiet with no preamp). Btw without at least a -10db pad my speakers cant even be corrected by audyssey without hitting the -12db limit.
Audyssey/marantz should mention this last point in the manual.

I have news for folks here: our marantz 8801 is not that great in terms of quality circuitry outside the dac / audyssey part. Marantz owners can claim whatever they want, but honestly it is a mediocre product for high sensitivity speakers.

 

No, Marantz should not cover every conceivable setup in their user manual, that would require an encyclopedia and not be realistic. Your setup is far from being a "normal" setup and thus you should expect to solve the problems by yourself, if you are not capable of solving the issues yourself, I suggest hiring an installer and paying a lot more for a processor with the qualities you are after.

 

Your power amplifier retails for a LOT more than the AV8801, if I remember correctly, but you expect them to be of the same quality.. It does not make sense to me.

 

The AV8801 is a consumer grade product and not a high end product made of unobtainium, so of course it does not have the "perfect performance" you are looking for. Live with it or spend the extra money needed to buy something else that satisfies your requirements.

post #10393 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjazdk View Post

No, Marantz should not cover every conceivable setup in their user manual, that would require an encyclopedia and not be realistic. Your setup is far from being a "normal" setup and thus you should expect to solve the problems by yourself, if you are not capable of solving the issues yourself, I suggest hiring an installer and paying a lot more for a processor with the qualities you are after.

Your power amplifier retails for a LOT more than the AV8801, if I remember correctly, but you expect them to be of the same quality.. It does not make sense to me.

The AV8801 is a consumer grade product and not a high end product made of unobtainium, so of course it does not have the "perfect performance" you are looking for. Live with it or spend the extra money needed to buy something else that satisfies your requirements.

I traded in an integra 80.3 that did not have this problem... And my in wall speakers are mot uncommon in their sensitivity. Marantz went cheap where it counts, the output circuit... Defend them all you want but they are overpriced compared to the integra 80.3 for a reason. They intended to be a flagship. Having no way to "preview" it, I was buying based on reputation and got what I deserved.
post #10394 of 11283
I ended up getting the AV8801, definitely a sonic improvement over the Denon AVR-A100 it replaced which brings a smile to my face.

Initial thoughts compared to the Denon; I feel the remote is lacking some nice features that the A100 had, the Denon also had a few more DSP settings which I liked, but the biggest change and maybe even concern is how HOT this thing runs! I read that it would run hot but I guess I did not realize it would be this hot after a couple of hours of use. I am actually kind of surprised considering it is a pre unit...when I read this fan post I somewhat ignored it but now I know what you guys were talking about, I think I am going to have to get these fans.


Quote:
Originally Posted by admranger View Post

Very nice setup Ray. I have those fans on my 8801, but not the thermostat like you have. I have a "smart" power strip that determines when the 8801 is on and turns the fans on at the same time. Since I'm in Vegas, I just figure things are going to be hot most of the time and have the fans set to a speed that keeps things around 85 - 87 deg F (and the fan is slow enough that I don't hear it). My little 135w/ch amp is at 95 deg F though, so I might switch to your dual thermostat system or just add another two fans like I have on the 8801 and go that way...hmmm.
post #10395 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazzz View Post

I ended up getting the AV8801, definitely a sonic improvement over the Denon AVR-A100 it replaced which brings a smile to my face.

Initial thoughts compared to the Denon; I feel the remote is lacking some nice features that the A100 had, the Denon also had a few more DSP settings which I liked, but the biggest change and maybe even concern is how HOT this thing runs! I read that it would run hot but I guess I did not realize it would be this hot after a couple of hours of use. I am actually kind of surprised considering it is a pre unit...when I read this fan post I somewhat ignored it but now I know what you guys were talking about, I think I am going to have to get these fans.

 

Fans is a good idea, unless you have lots of airspace around the AV8801. It doesn't require much forced ventilation, moving just a little air is very effective.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

I traded in an integra 80.3 that did not have this problem... And my in wall speakers are mot uncommon in their sensitivity. Marantz went cheap where it counts, the output circuit... Defend them all you want but they are overpriced compared to the integra 80.3 for a reason. They intended to be a flagship. Having no way to "preview" it, I was buying based on reputation and got what I deserved.

 

Yes, 95dB sensitivity is also an uncommon sensitivity and definitely above what the average user has. My own speakers are at 90-92dB sensitivity and I have no problems with hiss at all. I am not defending Marantz, but I am trying to explain to you why your expectations are unrealistic for this product.

If the Integra 80.3 was a better product for you, then why did you swap it for the AV8801?

post #10396 of 11283
Another thing to remember is that noise levels vary from unit to unit. It could simply be that blazar has one that should be considered defective.
post #10397 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazzz View Post

I ended up getting the AV8801, definitely a sonic improvement over the Denon AVR-A100 it replaced which brings a smile to my face.

Initial thoughts compared to the Denon; I feel the remote is lacking some nice features that the A100 had, the Denon also had a few more DSP settings which I liked, but the biggest change and maybe even concern is how HOT this thing runs! I read that it would run hot but I guess I did not realize it would be this hot after a couple of hours of use. I am actually kind of surprised considering it is a pre unit...when I read this fan post I somewhat ignored it but now I know what you guys were talking about, I think I am going to have to get these fans.

I owned an 4311 before. And i also miss the denon remote. But the DSP functions are hided under music etc. Press the button for a few seconds and you will see them.

The av8801 is an improvement but not a huge step i think. I noticed the midrange and bass are better. Also the direct function improves a lot compred to the direct function of the 4311. The audyssey mode is on the 4311 was always on. On my av8801 i use direct for my audio because it keeps the dynamics and placement, with audyssey on, the sound is getting boring and flat.

1 month to go and my units will be tuned by cinemike. I cant wait to bust the bryston sp3 with my av8801
Edited by Masterkale - 2/4/14 at 7:01am
post #10398 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Another thing to remember is that noise levels vary from unit to unit. It could simply be that blazar has one that should be considered defective.

This is certainly possible.

The main reason i dropped the integra 80.3 and go with the marantz was to get full 11.2 while also having L/R main audyssey bypass option. Audyssey room correction doesnt seem to do as well with big horns, possibly due to the way they project sound and maybe the way they interact with the audyssey microphone. Big horns speakers subjectively sound different than the usual 1" dome tweeters so its possible that audyssey and its mic was simply not designed for this type of speaker in mind.

I also got the marantz for built-in airplay as a side feature that benefits me but that has not worked no matter what I have tried with my apple router. It shows as an airplay device but i simply get error messages on my airplay device when i try to airplay to the marantz. Some sort of networking issue that Im not going to spend more effort to solve at this point... Wasted half a day searching for techniques to fix that to no avail.

On the bright side, marantz has Neo X and the integra does not. It is now the only surround mode that I bother with since it works so well for everything Movie i feed it.

Marantz looks MUCH nicer than the integra in industrial design and works just as well with Control4. The marantz also has 2 subwoofer outputs which is a nice touch. Unfortunately audyssey doesnt equalize both subs independently as far as I know.

To be fair, ONLY a Datasat RS20i has literally EVERYTHING i ever wanted in a receiver... But the pricing is .... Crazy expensive. Great stereo sound, great movie DTS neo X, equilize 4 subwoofers, Dirac live (highly rated), they eliminated all the inputs and outputs that I will Never use. No video processor to add noise to the system. Truly seems like a audiophile's wet dream. The funny thing is you can get better stereo performance out of an Oppo 105 minus the bass management and Dirac live. The datasat has literally everything I ever wanted in a processor... Amazing on so many levels that a company has every exact thing on my pre-pro wish lists... If their price comes down, this would be a great product to jump in on!
Edited by blazar - 2/4/14 at 9:22am
post #10399 of 11283
I agree with Selden, if Airplay won't work and the hiss, why not try and push for a replacement your unit maybe a lemon, at least you'll then know if it is a marantz issue and you can start saving for a Datasat
post #10400 of 11283
I agree with Selden and instead of posting it in the forums, I would have been on the phone with Marantz CS. I don't care if your speakers are 120db sensitive there should not be any hiss. I can turn my volume all the way to the right put my ear to my Revel fronts and hear zero hiss. If there was hiss in my setup I'd hear it.

Other people have sensitive speakers and have had no complaints. So call Matantz, it's a no brainer.
post #10401 of 11283
I mixed up the audyssey mic from my integra 60.5 and the av8801. They look identical and have the same markings... Are they interchangeable?
post #10402 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

Well my mains have an efficiency around 107db which necessitated -20db pads between the marantz (causing hiss) and my amplifier (which is dead quiet with no preamp). Btw without at least a -10db pad my speakers cant even be corrected by audyssey without hitting the -12db limit.

Audyssey/marantz should mention this last point in the manual.

The center was adjusted by audyssey to -3db which worked just fine.

Thw surrounds are ribbon line sources which are around 95db sensitivity and on those I use crown XLS amplifiers which have notched attenuator knobs ln them. Without attenuation, my entire room sounds like a huge hissing noise. I attenuated with the crown amplifiers for all the surrounds and then ran audyssey. Then after adjusting my mains to zero gain on the marantz i then adjusted all the other amp's gain settings.

Another reasonable option would be to but -10db XLR pads for all the surround speaker's amplifiers.

I have news for folks here: our marantz 8801 is not that great in terms of quality circuitry outside the dac / audyssey part. Marantz owners can claim whatever they want, but honestly it is a mediocre product for high sensitivity speakers.

Plugging an oppo blu ray player straight up to my main amplifier has NONE of the hiss that the marantz makes at idle. Bottom line: Marantz cheaped out on its electronics and therefore I have to resort to all this chicanery to fix my issues.

If oppo ever makes a pre-pro that integrates well, uses multiple sAbre ess dacs and has a decent room correction suite.... The other brands are screwed in the American market. Basically something like a Datasat rs20i for under $5000 would be a winner for me.

I have close to 100dB efficient speakers all around with my 8801. I haven't run Audyssey since i upgraded some of them, but I am level matched to 85dB's across the board and don't have this bad hiss you speak of. There is a little that I can hear when walking under the side surrounds on the way to the front, or directly underneath the rear surrounds but once there is ANY content, it is nonexistant. I also have experience with the crowns as I have owned several drivecore series as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post



I also got the marantz for built-in airplay as a side feature that benefits me but that has not worked no matter what I have tried with my apple router. It shows as an airplay device but i simply get error messages on my airplay device when i try to airplay to the marantz. Some sort of networking issue that Im not going to spend more effort to solve at this point... Wasted half a day searching for techniques to fix that to no avail.!

I use airplay every single day. It works flawless for me whether using my Iphone, or itunes on the laptop. I have never had a single issue other than the volume limiting I get when using airplay but that is another story.
post #10403 of 11283
Thanks for the advice, its very possible i have a lemon... Hard to be sure.

I also have an extreme quiet, treated room, and 107+db sensitivity is crazy high if you think about how db are measured. Its hard to say if its the fault of the device or it is simply working as designed.

Either way, i called a datasat dealer 300 miles away to look into one as an option... If only the stock market makes a nice rally again ... Lol
post #10404 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner969 View Post

I mixed up the audyssey mic from my integra 60.5 and the av8801. They look identical and have the same markings... Are they interchangeable?

Yes.
post #10405 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

Thanks for the advice, its very possible i have a lemon... Hard to be sure.

I also have an extreme quiet, treated room, and 107+db sensitivity is crazy high if you think about how db are measured. Its hard to say if its the fault of the device or it is simply working as designed.

Either way, i called a datasat dealer 300 miles away to look into one as an option... If only the stock market makes a nice rally again ... Lol

Try a test isolating the Marantz as far as possible from all other equipment; zero HDMIs, max one source, connect to separate electric circuit from other equipment if possible or at least disconnect the other stuff from the power.

 

If that reduces the hum to acceptable levels, then you can search for the culprit and find a way to fix it.

 

I got a nasty hum (strangely dominant in one active speaker) that disappeared when HDMI from TV was disconnected or when I plugged that amp/speaker into a separate power circuit.  Still investigating this; a separate XLR switch also seems to be involved. I'd imagine various similar problems can occur in a particular set-up and Marantz could have lessened the impact by using balanced analog circuitry but that's what we got and locating/fixing the source of a hum/noise is still an option for at least some issues.

post #10406 of 11283
I went from a dying 80.3 to the 8801 and it was a big improvement in my setup. Warmer and less fatiguing. More enjoyable to listen to over a longer period of time. I had a huge noise floor with unused channels but with the marantz all is silent. 80.3 has more bells and whistles but to me the 8801 fits better in my system.
post #10407 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yes.

Thanks.

As for a hiss, I hear a hiss when I power up the amps in all channels, but powering the AV8801 doesn't add any hiss at all.
post #10408 of 11283

Has anyone tried running HDMI from av8801--Oppo--TV?

Reason: I have Oppo 103D and want it to add Darbee to all video signals.  

 

Problem is that for blu ray, I obviously need a 2nd HDMI for audio from Oppo HDMI-2-out to av8801. This set-up never works for me. I note that the Oppo HDMI-out-2 always carries video (regardless of split A/V setting) and suspect this is creating some type of HDCP issue; e.g. unwanted video from Oppo to av8801 is never reaching a monitor so no HDMI handshake.

post #10409 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDOz View Post

Try a test isolating the Marantz as far as possible from all other equipment; zero HDMIs, max one source, connect to separate electric circuit from other equipment if possible or at least disconnect the other stuff from the power.

If that reduces the hum to acceptable levels, then you can search for the culprit and find a way to fix it.

I got a nasty hum (strangely dominant in one active speaker) that disappeared when HDMI from TV was disconnected or when I plugged that amp/speaker into a separate power circuit.  Still investigating this; a separate XLR switch also seems to be involved. I'd imagine various similar problems can occur in a particular set-up and Marantz could have lessened the impact by using balanced analog circuitry but that's what we got and locating/fixing the source of a hum/noise is still an option for at least some issues.

Yep tried everything, i dont think hiss can be corrected, only hum. The XLR pads helped solve a majority of the problem so I going to live with that for now.
post #10410 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

Thanks for the advice, its very possible i have a lemon... Hard to be sure.

I also have an extreme quiet, treated room, and 107+db sensitivity is crazy high if you think about how db are measured. Its hard to say if its the fault of the device or it is simply working as designed.

Either way, i called a datasat dealer 300 miles away to look into one as an option... If only the stock market makes a nice rally again ... Lol

Do you use, XLR or RCA connections?
Because with XLR, you should have no hiss problems (even with your very high eficiencly speaker).
RCA might introduce some.
If you use, XLR I would say that you have a lemon and that would suck.

Ray
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