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Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 356

post #10651 of 11283
Hello I have a Cary amp and noticed the volume level dropped once I went to XLR's , it wasn't a huge drop but it was noticeable. I checked the secs and sure enough the xlr's were suppose to put out about 25% less voltage.
post #10652 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by vince325 View Post

Hello I have a Cary amp and noticed the volume level dropped once I went to XLR's , it wasn't a huge drop but it was noticeable. I checked the secs and sure enough the xlr's were suppose to put out about 25% less voltage.
Which specs, the amp or the 8801?

The problem is that different amps, even with the same input sensitivity for the phono inputs, can have different sensitivuty for the XLRs. I ran into this when I switched to XLR, with L/R feeding a 2-ch Classe amp and the C feeding a different model 6-ch Classe amp. The gain was 6 dB higher in the C than the L/R.

Anyway, just re-adjust the channel trims with the test tones.
post #10653 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterkale View Post

In a short while i will have my av8801 tuned by cinemike. After that it will be better than the bryston sp3 biggrin.gif
i have been told that the 8801 will be about 90% of the tuned AVP so around the 74 points


Did you receive your unit? Any impressions?
post #10654 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

Is the Audyssey calibration (pro or normal) retained after the new update?

I'm sure an owner will chime in to confirm, however, it should be, yes as firmware updates generally don't do anything to the Audyssey calibration.
post #10655 of 11283
I think this is the 5th update I've done, and I haven't lost a single setting, including Audyssey.
post #10656 of 11283
my update went through no issues: Audyssey settings are saved

I just installed a Parasound Halo A51 amplifier: audio nirvana!
post #10657 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

my update went through no issues: Audyssey settings are saved

I just installed a Parasound Halo A51 amplifier: audio nirvana!



Hi Mark,

Congrats on the Halo, I bet it sounds great.
post #10658 of 11283
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

my update went through no issues: Audyssey settings are saved

I just installed a Parasound Halo A51 amplifier: audio nirvana!

I have the same combination... Am using the MM8077 for read/heights/wides... Love it!
post #10659 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

Is the Audyssey calibration (pro or normal) retained after the new update?

Greetings,

I updated my 8801 yesterday afternoon and there was no problem with retention of my settings. As a precaution I always back up my configuration (which includes Audyssey) via the PC control function prior to performing an update.


Regards,
post #10660 of 11283
A while back there was a short discussion on desired added features for a Marantz AV8801 successor. Following is some of the content. RichB also commented.

I have an added thought that I've tacked on at the end the entry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

Things I would change on the Av8801:

- fix the airplay to work with ipv6 routers correctly for everyone.

- when Pure direct mode is used, LFE + Main allows you to use the subwoofers but does NOT pay attention the "small" setting on your main speakers. On the other hand the "stereo" mode implements Audyssey EQ into the main speakers which I am not liking. I middle ground between these two situations would be nice I suppose. Direct mode with bass management is what I am asking for...

-ONLY XLR outputs out of this thing... most good amps that folks are liable to use have XLR inputs. Balanced circuitry from the dac/processor all the way to the outputs to kill some of the hiss/hum noise that is clearly noticeable from the 8801 in a quiet room with sensitive speakers.

-More DC triggers would be nice.

-7.1 channel inputs are practically not needed for a receiver of this type... am I the only one that thinks this?

-antenna and AM/FM tuner are useless and I am not sure they don't introduce noise into the system. folks can get a separate tuner if they really want one.

-component video in/out? are these really needed? I suppose the home automation / video distribution crowd use these. At least they don't still have s-video.

- do we need so many analog and composite video inputs? WHAT are people connecting to all these? Seems like a VAST excess of analog audio and video inputs for the type of folks using an 8801 in this day and age.

-improve the hum/hiss while this thing is idle... the 8801's performance in this regard is pretty weak compared to even the integra 80.3. Not sure if this is a result of a poor transformer, bad op-amps, bad shielding, or what... but it is not sane for this to be a problem in a $3000+ retail unit in the 21st century.

-more comprehensive on-screen instructions for some of the various settings would be nice... its just an alphabet soup of nonsense to most people. After putting in so much circuitry for an on-screen interface, why don't they just shove a lot of the information from the manual into it.

-does anyone use the crazy half baked attempts at networked music and other crap in these receivers? Leave that crap in the lower end models and clean up the excess mess in the flagship models.

The crowd that wants a "pure direct" mode is really gonna use an IPOD via USB and navigate it using the clunky onscreen menu system while turning on a TV and projector? Offer a system remote that can graphically navigate music like Sonos and I might bite.


Marantz needs to differentiate themselves better from sister Denon products IMO. I like the cutting edge 11.2 channel approach and partial audiophile consideration but would like a final product perhaps closer to what Parasound might offer if they had such a product anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post

I like your list, that said here a some added thoughts:

I doubt that the AV8801 handles the signals from its DAC's as balanced from the DAC to the analog outputs. Doing so adds a lot of op-amps and other circuitry. It would lower noise and reduce distortion if this were done. It would add cost. Removing legacy video inputs would free up some space for the added components.

The ESS ES9018 seems to be the current premium DAC chip. OPPO makes good use of it (two of them) in the BDP-105. The Yamaha CX-A5000 uses the ES9016 (two of them) but only uses single-ended signals until the output buffers. Using the ES9018 in a fully balanced manner would be great, but likely expensive.

Reduced gain, or adjustable gain (gain, not volume), would allow reduced noise from the unit, which is important for those using high efficiency speakers.

Lower output impedances, say 50 to 100 ohms per leg would make for cleaner interfaces to the outside world.

I use balanced outputs, but leaving out single-ended outputs would cut off some number of users and remove flexibility. I would retain them.

Cutting the legacy video inputs and outputs seems like a great idea as you note. It would free up space, perhaps cut out some cost, and likely reduce noise. Even if the boards come at low cost by reuse from AV receivers, having these signals around causes problems, and the boards, and inputs and outputs, take up space. The excess inputs and outputs make the back of the AV8801 more confusing as well.

It is hard to see a good use for the single-ended audio inputs. Making them here high-quality would be expensive. It does seem that they could go.

A clean design, without tacked on circuit boards and associated wires would be good. Wires in the open only pickup and cause noise. The output stage of the AV8801 with the HDAM's has countless wires back to other circuitry for example.

I'd use TI's best op-amps as OPPO does in the BDP-105 instead of the HDAM's, but I suppose that is getting too far into Marantz's business.

A pure or pure direct mode or whatever, that takes stereo in and gives stereo out with only adjustment for volume is a requirement. I just want a clean pass through. The unit has this now and it is a continuing requirement.

OPPO provides I would say at least 1/2 of the above for $1,200 in the BDP-105. It would seem that Marantz could provide balanced outputs, and more overall inputs and outputs than the BDP-105, along with the AV8801's current audio and video processing, for a lot less than $3,500 list. I wonder if ultimately OPPO will provide such a unit itself and certainly for less than $3,500.


I've been considering a subwoofer upgrade. While I may not get four subwoofers to start that seems like a good direction. I would like the see four subwoofer outputs, both RCA and XLR on a new piece. The current capability to balance subs should be included for each sub. Any added capabilities which Audyssy has available for subwoofer correction, if there are such things, but Marantz doesn't use, should also be included. Graphs of the frequency, and any other adjustments that Audyssy makes for the subwoofers, should be available for each subwoofer.
post #10661 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by vince325 View Post

Hello I have a Cary amp and noticed the volume level dropped once I went to XLR's , it wasn't a huge drop but it was noticeable. I checked the secs and sure enough the xlr's were suppose to put out about 25% less voltage.
The XLRs (balanced) preouts on the AV8801 are rated at an output of 2.4v.
The RCA preouts (unbalanced) are rated to output 1.2v.
So it's odd that you'd notice a volume drop going from the RCAs to XLRs, as the result should have been the opposite.

The Cary amplifier probably has a gain of 29db (or less), and that would account for a slight volume drop if your were using a higher gain amp previously, and switched amps when you switched connections(?).
post #10662 of 11283
Is there a standard for what a preamp's xlr or rca output voltage/current/etc "should be"? Just curious if there is a standards organization that figures out this stuff. Is the marantz 8801 a standard voltage or would it be considered "hot"? It seems hotter than the integra 80.3 i used to own.
post #10663 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Which specs, the amp or the 8801?

The problem is that different amps, even with the same input sensitivity for the phono inputs, can have different sensitivuty for the XLRs. I ran into this when I switched to XLR, with L/R feeding a 2-ch Classe amp and the C feeding a different model 6-ch Classe amp. The gain was 6 dB higher in the C than the L/R.

Anyway, just re-adjust the channel trims with the test tones.

The spec I mentioned was from my Cary amp
post #10664 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

Is there a standard for what a preamp's xlr or rca output voltage/current/etc "should be"? Just curious if there is a standards organization that figures out this stuff. Is the marantz 8801 a standard voltage or would it be considered "hot"? It seems hotter than the integra 80.3 i used to own.
There are all sorts of standards for outputs, but with one exception, none that I have seen define the gain structure ahead of them, particularly for variable outputs. The exception is THX, but plenty of gear out there is not THX certified.
post #10665 of 11283
Thanks to all who responded to my query. I will do the update ASAP
post #10666 of 11283
Did the update while at lunch and not sure if I'm imagining it but my front and rear effects channels seem much more alive. I guess it could be all of them but I was watching the olympics speed skating and I was hearing the blades hit the ice all around me so cool. Any one else notice anything like this? Im running 9.2 CH just missing the front wides in my current setup.
post #10667 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

In general, especially for movies, Audyssey XT32, as provided in the 8801, can make significant improvements in the quality of the sound you hear. In order to use Audyssey, the 8801 has to be fed either a digital signal via HDMI or S/PDIF, or a stereo analog signal. No digital processing, including Audyssey, can be applied to the pre/pro's 7.1 multichannel analog inputs, so if you use the multichannel inputs, you'll have to use the same speaker settings in your Oppo as you used for the Lexicon. However, blindly applying Audyssey as described in the 8801's manual usually won't produce optimal results. The instructions there are woefully inadequate. For details, please refer to the Audyssey 101/FAQ at http://www.parts-express.com/in-line-xlr-attenuator-pad-10db--240-412

The 8801 does include both "Direct" and "Pure Direct" options to disable processing of its digital and stereo inputs. You shouldn't hesitate to try the various options to find out which works best for your listening environment.

Thanks Selden.

I have listened to music both with and without Audyssey engaged. I MUCH prefer the sound with Audyssey.
post #10668 of 11283
You're very welcome.
post #10669 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The Feb 20 firmware update to resolve the Netflix DD+ issue was released today and also includes a bunch of other fixes as well to include the Dialogue Enhancer not "sticking" in the menu discussed in this thread in the recent past. Check post #1 in the next day or so for the changelog information.

I have wireless to my down stairs computers and a PS3. Would you recommend on getting a 75ft cable and running it to the 8801 from the router. If not what is another good way to get upgrades to the 8801? Do not have a desktop just laptops. I'm a child of the 60's and when I went to school they just got the first electric typewriter so am just barley computer literate:rolleyes:.
post #10670 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by labman1 View Post

I have wireless to my down stairs computers and a PS3. Would you recommend on getting a 75ft cable and running it to the 8801 from the router. If not what is another good way to get upgrades to the 8801? Do not have a desktop just laptops. I'm a child of the 60's and when I went to school they just got the first electric typewriter so am just barley computer literate:rolleyes:.
i use a power line adapter, along the same line as this
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B009WG6JF8?cache=95e4e9bfc7441ce61b411b12b7c6af6f&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70#ref=mp_s_a_1_12&qid=1393033775&sr=8-12

Very simple plug and play, get flashing lights you have a connection. You can plug this into the 8801 then you have 3 more connections on the 8801 for bluray cable, appletv etc to also get network connection
post #10671 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by labman1 View Post

I have wireless to my down stairs computers and a PS3. Would you recommend on getting a 75ft cable and running it to the 8801 from the router. If not what is another good way to get upgrades to the 8801? Do not have a desktop just laptops. I'm a child of the 60's and when I went to school they just got the first electric typewriter so am just barley computer literate:rolleyes:.

A wired connection is much more reliable and a 75' cat 5e cable costs < $10 at forum sponsor Monoprice. smile.gif

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?seq=1&format=2&p_id=5007&CAWELAID=1329450631&catargetid=320013720000010784&cadevice=c&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CN-vrofS3rwCFW9p7AodkRUABg
post #10672 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by admranger View Post

What you are describing sounds like sibilance to me. A definition of sibilance

This is usually caused by a poor microphone selection by the recording engineer (reference: any Al Stewart album). Audyssey might be causing you to hear more treble b/c your room has been dampening out those high frequencies. Don't be afraid to try different microphone positions to get the sound just right in the primary listening position. It doesn't take that long to do the setup after you shoo everyone out of the house and shut off the HVAC system, close the curtains, set the recliner up like you usually sit in it, etc. rolleyes.gif

I'm not sure if you can trim those frequencies down a bit and still have Audyssey running, but I know there are those here in the forum who DO KNOW what's possible to do and hope they can chime in.

Which recording are you hearing this on? Curious to see if anyone here has it and hears the same thing.

One of my pet peeves w/Audyssey's implementation in the 8801 is that we can't "see" what it's doing. I had an Alpine DSP unit in one of my vehicles with Audyssey in it. I could save multiple setups in my computer and see the time domain as well as frequency responses pre and post processing by Audyssey. It was very, very instructional on what was really going on in the vehicle, sound wise. I wish Marantz had implemented a way for us to "see" the before/after info somehow.


The CD is "Uncle Jam Wants You" by Funkadelic.
Cd player Quad CDP2 with Kimber Hero interconnects.

I can play same CD on Oppo which is connected with HDMI to 8801 with similar sibilance issue.

I will run room correction again and see how it works.

Thanks
post #10673 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post


In general, especially for movies, Audyssey XT32, as provided in the 8801, can make significant improvements in the quality of the sound you hear. In order to use Audyssey, the 8801 has to be fed either a digital signal via HDMI or S/PDIF, or a stereo analog signal. No digital processing, including Audyssey, can be applied to the pre/pro's 7.1 multichannel analog inputs, so if you use the multichannel inputs, you'll have to use the same speaker settings in your Oppo as you used for the Lexicon. However, blindly applying Audyssey as described in the 8801's manual usually won't produce optimal results. The instructions there are woefully inadequate. For details, please refer to the Audyssey 101/FAQ at http://www.parts-express.com/in-line-xlr-attenuator-pad-10db--240-412

The 8801 does include both "Direct" and "Pure Direct" options to disable processing of its digital and stereo inputs. You shouldn't hesitate to try the various options to find out which works best for your listening environment.

Sorry but I'm still a bit confused about what happens between the stereo analog inputs and the speakers...with Audyseey, direct and pure direct.

 

 Is it really true that with Audyssey on, your stereo analog input will be converted to digital for processing then back to analog?

and/or is any analog processing applied?

post #10674 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

A wired connection is much more reliable and a 75' cat 5e cable costs < $10 at forum sponsor Monoprice. smile.gif

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?seq=1&format=2&p_id=5007&CAWELAID=1329450631&catargetid=320013720000010784&cadevice=c&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CN-vrofS3rwCFW9p7AodkRUABg

JD thanks a lot for your help! I just ordered the cable.
post #10675 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post

Need help here!

I want to try the flat Audyssey set-up since my room is fairly small (12x18) and lots of accoutic threatment.

Did lots of search under "Home theater EQ/Dynamic EQ".
But keek coming with nothing to know what they do, The instruction manual on the CD does not give any results since I am a computer Idiot!!! rolleyes.gif

I am pretty sure they both should be set to Off, but it would be nice to know what they do.

Any help would be greatly appreciate or throw me in the right direction.

Ray

Think of Home Theater EQ as a way of taming overly bright sounding movies or multi/ch music by decreasing the high frequencies by a few db, this feature was similar to those in THX certified gear.

As for Dynamic EQ its best to think of it as a bass and surround channel boost when not listening at reference level, this may be liked as well because of the boost to the bass alone but then again it may not, there are also different settings called Reference Level Offset or RLO for DEQ 0,5,19 and 15 each Lessing the effect from the reference playback level of 0 on the volume. I recommend you check the Audyssey FAQ for more info smile.gif

Thanks audiofan1

You have save me hours of search time!

I can read a manual on paper (fold a page and come back to it) too bad Marantz did not include one, those cd that jump from one page to another just confuse me).
So the way I read;
Home Theater EQ set to Off as it would defeit the purpuse of Flat too increase your High as the FAQ due to my small room and acoutictly treated room ([12x18] I do read them, but could not find the answer smile.gif ).

Quote
The Audyssey Flat/Music target curve has no roll-off. This curve should be used for movies if you are seated in the near field, if your room has a lot of high frequency absorption due to acoustic treatments, if your room is very small or highly treated or if you are using THX Re-EQ (which introduces its own roll-off).
End-quote

But I will try Dynamic EQ, On and Off to see what is my preference (I do like Bass to some extend, Right now, 1 db above reference).

Thanks again, you have no idea, how much I appreciated this!

Ray

Somehow, I thought the Home Theater EQ was only for Marantz AV8801 but finaly figure out my question and found some other stuff in the FAQ.
Here's my last setting before the movie for Sundays (can only watch a 2-3 hours movies, once a week due to work and family).

Anyone see something wrong with this or are OK with it?
Remember, small room with lots acoutics threatment and want to increase the high without killing the bass.
(click on my Avatar for some pictures at the bottom)

XT32 > Flat
MultEq >On
Home Theater EQ > Off
Dynamic EQ > On
Reference Level > 0 db
Dynamic Volume > Off
All speakers set to small > 80Hz

All comments are more than Welcome.

Ray
Edited by darthray - 2/22/14 at 12:09pm
post #10676 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccfunk View Post

The CD is "Uncle Jam Wants You" by Funkadelic.
Cd player Quad CDP2 with Kimber Hero interconnects.

I can play same CD on Oppo which is connected with HDMI to 8801 with similar sibilance issue.

I will run room correction again and see how it works.

Thanks

Yeah, I don't have that CD... wink.gif

Any other CDs sound different? Not surprising that your digital signal from two different CD players has the same issue, but it did eliminate the CD player as the problem (and the cables aren't it either). It should be across the board for all digital inputs if it is Audyssey on/off that makes the change.

I assume if you run analog into the 8801 from your Oppo (BTW: I highly recommend using the XLR outs if you have the 95 or 105, and then running the 8801 in pure direct -- really sounds great on my system!) and you don't have the issue, right? If you haven't tried it with the Funkadelic CD, please do and report back.
post #10677 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post

A while back there was a short discussion on desired added features for a Marantz AV8801 successor. Following is some of the content. RichB also commented.

I have an added thought that I've tacked on at the end the entry.

I've been considering a subwoofer upgrade. While I may not get four subwoofers to start that seems like a good direction. I would like the see four subwoofer outputs, both RCA and XLR on a new piece. The current capability to balance subs should be included for each sub. Any added capabilities which Audyssy has available for subwoofer correction, if there are such things, but Marantz doesn't use, should also be included. Graphs of the frequency, and any other adjustments that Audyssy makes for the subwoofers, should be available for each subwoofer.

Agreed, along with a way to assign speaker outputs so you can bi-amp some speakers if you don't use all of the 11.2 capabilities (says the 5.2 luddite...). No Marantz, I really don't want to use a "Y" connector (and I shouldn't have to!). wink.gif
post #10678 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by admranger View Post

Yeah, I don't have that CD... wink.gif

Any other CDs sound different? Not surprising that your digital signal from two different CD players has the same issue, but it did eliminate the CD player as the problem (and the cables aren't it either). It should be across the board for all digital inputs if it is Audyssey on/off that makes the change.

I assume if you run analog into the 8801 from your Oppo (BTW: I highly recommend using the XLR outs if you have the 95 or 105, and then running the 8801 in pure direct -- really sounds great on my system!) and you don't have the issue, right? If you haven't tried it with the Funkadelic CD, please do and report back.

I have the Oppo 103, no XLR outs. Listening to Santana "Santana"" CD and it sounds beautiful. I guess particular CD's are higher in treble and brighter in sound. That is the case with the Funkadelic CD recorded in 1979.
Still going to run room correction again and see if it mellows the treble a little.

Thanks for input
post #10679 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post

Somehow, I thought the Home Theater EQ was only for Marantz AV8801 but finaly figure out my question and found some other stuff in the FAQ.
Here's my last setting before the movie for Sundays (can only watch a 2-3 hours movies, once a week due to work and family).

Anyone see something wrong with this or are OK with it?
Remember, small room with lots acoutics threatment and want to increase the high without killing the bass.
(click on my Avatar for some pictures at the bottom)

XT32 > Flat
MultEq >On
Home Theater EQ > Off
Dynamic EQ > On
Reference Level > 0 db
Dynamic Volume > Off
All speakers set to small > 80Hz

All comments are more than Welcome.

Ray





cout


Sounds good to try! you can also while Dynamic EQ is off use the tone controls to boost the highs but at the cost of the boost to the subs and surrounds but you can still add a bass bump in the sub volume to +3 or + 6 db from the calibrated level wink.gif

Enjoy the movies and your family smile.gif
post #10680 of 11283

Since the firmware upgrade, the 'Airplay' has become unpredictable...sometimes showing, sometimes not or disappearing after a while (even when in play).

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