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Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 66

post #1951 of 11327
I'm not having any problems.
post #1952 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Do you find and appreciable differences in the sound of the AV8801 versus the AV7701?

- Rich

Yes! In my opinion the detail and soundstage is wider, more detailed, etc. I changed absolutely nothing except the pre/pro. I did no measurable tests. I could definitely tell a difference.
post #1953 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stapleton View Post

Yes! In my opinion the detail and soundstage is wider, more detailed, etc. I changed absolutely nothing except the pre/pro. I did no measurable tests. I could definitely tell a difference.

Great. I am looking forward to trying mine.

- Rich
post #1954 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

My dealer sent a spreadsheet with remote codes. It includes code to change the audio inputs:
Marantz_AV_SR_NR_IR_CODE_V05.xls 1897k .xls file
thanks for posting this
post #1955 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Interesting stuff JAM88.
It there are downsides, then 3 is likely.
Unless they want to preserve brand differentiation, I think if t were on, they would be talking about it.

Agreed, it probably does not matter much so long as it sounds good smile.gif

- Rich

Thats why the discussion started and i was not clear enough we feel that upsampling to one speed (192khz/32b) is how denon got their queue so stable so we have strong doubts they would stop doing but again its about time some one got the answer instead of us guessing. Personally i agree i am 80% sure its either 1 of 2 and not 3 smile.gif

Daniel.
post #1956 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam88 View Post

Can the observations above lead us to conclude that the AV8801 is also equipped with the AL32 upsampling technology?

One sure way to find out would be to connect a digital scope to the PCM audio data entry pins on the DACs and observe what sampling rates and word length data enters the DAC. That's not an easy tasks to accomplish on a small surface mounted DAC with its pins spaced at less than 1 mm apart, unless one has specialized clip probes for surface mounted ICs.

I believe with a degree of certainty of 80% that the Marantz AV8801 does indeed include AL32 processing and that D+M does not advertize it to preserve brand differentiation for Denon.
thanks for your input here. I would'nt hesitate to think the same thing as well, being that the "new" D+M (http://www.dmglobal.com) appears to be much more united in regards to technology production sharing.
post #1957 of 11327
Can someone please show me how to get a particular hdmi port to do just video only? Thanks
post #1958 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

jam88

Nice writeup.

I wonder if there is a less painful way to test output?

Thanks Jim. I earlier suggested looking at the analog waveform out of an RCA analog output to observe the aliasing behavior but as Roger Dressler remarked, if the DACs oversample, that may be difficult to tell. I looked inside the data sheet of the TI Burr Brown PCM1795 DACs inside the 8801 and they do oversample at 8x. In retrospect, I believe the 8x oversampling would render the aliasing steps not apparent. Perhaps by looking at the dynamic range of the analog output for of a 1 kHz PCM impulse since at 24-bit it will be higher than at 16-bit. Or maybe as Roger suggested by observing the ringing behavior of a PCM impulse as shown on Denon's page for AL32. Maybe an EE can chime in and give some further insights.
post #1959 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Interesting stuff JAM88.
It there are downsides, then 3 is likely.
Unless they want to preserve brand differentiation, I think if t were on, they would be talking about it.

Agreed, it probably does not matter much so long as it sounds good smile.gif

- Rich

Indeed Rich, we're probably making too much of a big deal out of this and it does sound phenomenal as far as I'm concerned. smile.gif
post #1960 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

jam88, thanks for the excellent research & details. I like reading about the technology behind various gear. I'm leaning toward your conclusion, maybe not as strong as 80-20 wink.gif looks like the hardware & chip is there but as you say that doesn't mean it's enabled in FW.

does anyone have a close enough personal relationship with their dealer that could persuade him/her to ask their Marantz rep? if he gets an answer, he could just say PM.

You're welcome Steve. As I suggested in an earlier post, perhaps John Sciacca that writes for various magazines, including Sound & Vision, can ask his VP contact at Marantz America since he sent John's AV8801 to him for review. Any possibility of you inquiring about that John, if you're still around, please? smile.gif
Edited by jam88 - 1/18/13 at 12:46pm
post #1961 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioburst View Post

Can someone please show me how to get a particular hdmi port to do just video only? Thanks
change the input mode to anything, but auto or hdmi.
post #1962 of 11327
I don't care if it is in there or not because it does sound better! smile.gif
post #1963 of 11327
The technical discussions on AL 32 appeal to the techie in us, but like those discussions on specs of DACs, we all know that a 'lower' specced CD player can should better than one with a 'better' chip.

At the end of the day, since the logistics of getting these two units, the Denon 4520, and AV 8801 side by side to compare, plus the fact that one needs amps for the 8801, will mean that we will find it hard to do a meaningful comparison. I think D & M know this, and have priced the Marantz at around twice the price of the Denon (especially so if you add the price of the amps). That way, each does not eat into the others' market.

I was very keen to see if it was worth it to spend the extra $$ on the 8801, but I decided that I will spend it on a good amp for stereo listening using my B&W 804D instead.. YMMV..
post #1964 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I don't care if it is in there or not because it does sound better! smile.gif

Sounds better than what?

Has anyone compared the 8801 sound quality 9.1 to 9.1 or .2 with the AVP-A1HDCI?
Edited by dahlgren - 1/18/13 at 7:43pm
post #1965 of 11327
Not yet AFAIK but joerod compared the Denon AVR-4520 to the Marantz 8801, I believe that is what he is referring to...
post #1966 of 11327
Just sorted the 88' out as I was having trouble getting the ARC working. Needed Line Level Input increased to +12db as I'm running XLR out to Mackie HR824's/626 & HRS150's. Loving the focused sound. Very well done, Marantz!
post #1967 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbarrickman View Post

Not yet AFAIK but joerod compared the Denon AVR-4520 to the Marantz 8801, I believe that is what he is referring to...

I've been following the AL32 discussion. As I understand the 4520 & 8801 share the same main board with DSP's, DAC's etc... Is it the HDAM's with and/or without the AL32 processing that makes the 8801 sound better, producing that all apparent soft, smooth Marantz sound.

Maybe I should stay out of this one.
Edited by dahlgren - 1/18/13 at 10:10pm
post #1968 of 11327
^^^

No reason to stay out of it. You're curious about theses questions, which is perfectly understandable and natural, specially if you're considering purchasing one of these two units. To be honest, while we would all feel more comfortable and confident knowing that the 8801 also offers AL32 upsampling, there's much debate in the audio engineering community as too how much of a difference it really makes in terms of SQ. From what I've read over the years on PCM audio upsampling, including reviews of products that used such technologies to great apparent benefit and received much universal acclaim as well as awards, the first example that comes to mind is the Cambridge Audio Azur 840C CD player that used a novel upsampling technology from Anagram Technologies as I mentioned on my AL32 post, this in no way eschews the importance of the other elements in the audio processing chain. Since most of the digital front-end is pretty much the same on both units, it's the differences in the power supplies (specially for the analog sections) and the analog output stages like the Marantz HDAM vs. the Denon OP amps design that will impart to a great degree the distinctive sound qualities to each unit. This reminds me of a conversation I had at an audio show with the main designer of the Simaudio Moon CD player that uses the ESS Sabre32 Reference DACs. He mentioned that you can choose the best DAC on the market for your design but you can still mess up the overall implementation by poorly designing the analog output stages.
post #1969 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

I've been following the AL32 discussion. As I understand the 4520 & 8801 share the same main board with DSP's, DAC's etc... Is it the HDAM's with and/or without the AL32 processing that makes the 8801 sound better, producing that all apparent soft, smooth Marantz sound.

Maybe I should stay out of this one.

I wouldn't call the sound soft or smooth, in fact the opposite in a very good way neutral detailed and grain free with excellent resolution.
post #1970 of 11327
I've noticed that dialog is a bit more intelligible. I'm not having to go back and replay stuff as often to hear what was said. Then sometimes, the actors really do just mumble their lines. lol
post #1971 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

I've noticed that dialog is a bit more intelligible. I'm not having to go back and replay stuff as often to hear what was said. Then sometimes, the actors really do just mumble their lines. lol

Same thing over here. My Wife use to ask what did he say and that does not happen nearly as much as it used to. Dialog Enhancer at Low is amazing!!!

eek.gif
post #1972 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

The technical discussions on AL 32 appeal to the techie in us, but like those discussions on specs of DACs, we all know that a 'lower' specced CD player can should better than one with a 'better' chip.

At the end of the day, since the logistics of getting these two units, the Denon 4520, and AV 8801 side by side to compare, plus the fact that one needs amps for the 8801, will mean that we will find it hard to do a meaningful comparison. I think D & M know this, and have priced the Marantz at around twice the price of the Denon (especially so if you add the price of the amps). That way, each does not eat into the others' market.

I was very keen to see if it was worth it to spend the extra $$ on the 8801, but I decided that I will spend it on a good amp for stereo listening using my B&W 804D instead.. YMMV..

A sound plan! smile.gif
post #1973 of 11327
I have been following and learning from this thread, but I am still a little confused about the best configuration. I have a few questions for ya. Keep in mind that I will be using a URC MX-980 remote so macro commands will not be a problem.

What is the most ideal way to hook up my system via HDMI for video and music? I use dvds, Netflix, VUDU, stream music and videos from Synology NAS. I would like to be able listen to music and watch tv at the same time if I desire.

Should I have a HTPC? I have never owned one and I am not sure if I need one with the equipment that I have.

I am very cautious about leaving static images on my plasma, so should I buy a seperate small LCD for when streaming music so as to avoid the burn in from the music UI? I would like to see the music UI without the burn in.

Which player are people using to stream music...the Marantz AV8801 or Oppo 103? I have a lot of FLAC that I listen to from my server.

Eqpt:

Marantz AV8801
Oppo BDP-103 with Picture Adjustment > HDMI 1 > Sharpness +1
Panasonic 60ST50 plasma
Dish Network Hopper
URC MX-980
Edited by planetbrian777 - 1/19/13 at 3:14pm
post #1974 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

I've noticed that dialog is a bit more intelligible. I'm not having to go back and replay stuff as often to hear what was said. Then sometimes, the actors really do just mumble their lines. lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Same thing over here. My Wife use to ask what did he say and that does not happen nearly as much as it used to. Dialog Enhancer at Low is amazing!!!

eek.gif

Guys, I've made the same observations, vocals are now clearer and more focused on music and movies. The other day I was listening to a folk music piece on SACD that's been recorded in a church and has a little bit of echo. I usually listened to this piece in stereo and I sometimes had trouble understanding the words but this last time I heard it in multichannel and the vocalist's voice was much more focused than usual and I could very clearly understand the words he sang. On top of that, this is with my surround amp connected on the front channels, a class D amp that's not as transparent as my main amp (on loan to a friend) that runs in class A at the lower power levels I use. This was without Audyssey that I have yet to use.

I was also listening to the introduction of LOTR The Fellowship of the Ring, a segment I often listen to for testing so I know it well, and while the dialog was clear, the usual base seemed to be missing. I then noticed that the volume was turned way down a like over 10 dB, I then raised it back to my normal listening volume (75 db), restarted the listening test from the start and the usual bass and LFE were present. The dialog was so clear even at the lower volume that I didn't at first realize that my volume was turned down. This was with the dialog enhancer turned off and no Audyssey, which I hope to have the time to get into tomorrow.
Edited by jam88 - 1/19/13 at 11:37am
post #1975 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

I've noticed that dialog is a bit more intelligible. I'm not having to go back and replay stuff as often to hear what was said. Then sometimes, the actors really do just mumble their lines. lol

What are your settings for Dialogue Enhancer, Dynamic Vol, and Dynamic EQ?
post #1976 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by planetbrian777 View Post

What are your settings for Dialogue Enhancer, Dynamic Vol, and Dynamic EQ?

Are owners using these 3 features? I didn't use dynamic volume or EQ on my last audyssey processor....curious why people would use them, other than if you have to turn the volume down cuz your family is asleep or something....I listen to all my stuff LOUD.
post #1977 of 11327
Those features may be useful if you have to worry about others in your house hearing your movie and you want to keep the volume low while preserving low frequencies. Perhaps dialogue enhancer can help overcome the shortcomings of a too live room with uncontrolled bass modes that muddy the dialogue. Never needed it so not sure how well it works.
post #1978 of 11327
Wondering if I'm overlooking something fundamental - just experimenting with different BluRays - HDMI is the only connection. Input is set for HDMI only and format is set to AUTO. I'm getting confusing results playing Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD, DTS-MA 5.1 and DTS-MA 7.1 BluRays. This is with an Oppo-93 set to bitstream. I was expecting the 8801 to determine the sound format it was receiving and decode appropriately. It seems to work sporadically on DD but on DTS it may show Dolby with just L & R channels lit (the BD player is showing mulit-ch DTS output. If I manually set it to DTS it works but then doesn't work with a DD disc. What am I missing here??
post #1979 of 11327
Noticed one problem, when running Audssey setup the subs keep turning off so they don't register. Keeps coming up db too low or no sub connected.
post #1980 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libran Rabbit View Post

Noticed one problem, when running Audssey setup the subs keep turning off so they don't register. Keeps coming up db too low or no sub connected.

Turn your subs to "always on" while running Audyssey.
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