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Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 67

post #1981 of 5778
1/19/13 at 8:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam88 View Post

Thanks Jim. I earlier suggested looking at the analog waveform out of an RCA analog output to observe the aliasing behavior but as Roger Dressler remarked, if the DACs oversample, that may be difficult to tell. I looked inside the data sheet of the TI Burr Brown PCM1795 DACs inside the 8801 and they do oversample at 8x. In retrospect, I believe the 8x oversampling would render the aliasing steps not apparent. Perhaps by looking at the dynamic range of the analog output for of a 1 kHz PCM impulse since at 24-bit it will be higher than at 16-bit. Or maybe as Roger suggested by observing the ringing behavior of a PCM impulse as shown on Denon's page for AL32. Maybe an EE can chime in and give some further insights.

On the 8801 spec sheet it lists:
Hybrid PLL jitter reducer for accurate audio clock
M-DAX (Marantz Dynamic Audio eXpander)

Is this the Marantz equivalent to Denon Link and AL32?
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #1982 of 5778
1/19/13 at 9:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by planetbrian777 View Post

What are your settings for Dialogue Enhancer, Dynamic Vol, and Dynamic EQ?

Audyssey and Dynamic EQ are on.

Dialogue Enhancer and Dynamic Vol are "off"

Early on, I played with "Dialogue Enhancer" and at that time felt that it thinned out the sound. I'll go back and revisit it.
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post #1983 of 5778
1/19/13 at 11:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyliec2 View Post

Wondering if I'm overlooking something fundamental - just experimenting with different BluRays - HDMI is the only connection. Input is set for HDMI only and format is set to AUTO. I'm getting confusing results playing Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD, DTS-MA 5.1 and DTS-MA 7.1 BluRays. This is with an Oppo-93 set to bitstream. I was expecting the 8801 to determine the sound format it was receiving and decode appropriately. It seems to work sporadically on DD but on DTS it may show Dolby with just L & R channels lit (the BD player is showing mulit-ch DTS output. If I manually set it to DTS it works but then doesn't work with a DD disc. What am I missing here??

Is the "Secondary Audio" setting in the player set to "OFF"? When it is set to "ON" sometimes the formats don't come out as you'd expect/want them to.
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post #1984 of 5778
1/20/13 at 12:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

On the 8801 spec sheet it lists:
Hybrid PLL jitter reducer for accurate audio clock
M-DAX (Marantz Dynamic Audio eXpander)

Is this the Marantz equivalent to Denon Link and AL32?

No. A PLL (Phase-Look Loop) is an electronic circuit that can have various applications in electronics. It's often used for signal synchronization and clocking purposes. While this Hybrid PPL circuit it is located inside the Altera MAX V CPLD chip for both the Denon 4520 and the Marantz 8801 and inside the Altera FPGA for the Denon AVP-A1HDCI processor (See the AVP-A1HDCI audio block diagram on figure 2 of my AL32 post), in this case it's used to reduce jitter, which is a time deviation error in the transmission of bits and can have various negative effects on sound when fairly high, one of the most notable being a reduced sense of localization of discrete sounds. As JimP, joerod and I were reporting yesterday and other have remarked before, we've observed a more accurate localization and focus of instruments and sounds over the soundstage as well as the improved intelligibility of dialog and vocals. This can probably be attributed in part to the reduction of jitter provided by the hybrid PLL circuit.

This is how Denon explains the hybrid PLL in that 13-page brochure I mentioned on my AL32 post: "In addition by regenerating the master clock with a high-accuracy phase-locked loop (PLL) near the D/A converter, residual jitter is minimized, enabling playback of high-quality sound with clear sound images and contours."

The AV8801 owner's manual mentions the following about the hybrid PLL on page 2:
"Equipped with “Hybrid PLL Jitter Reducer” capable of reducing jitter and phase noise that negatively affect sound quality
“Hybrid PLL Jitter Reducer” provided with this unit improves the sound localization, reproducing a natural sound field."

The Denon Link is Denon's trademark name for what other audio gear manufacturers call a "master clock" or "word clock input". Some Marantz Reference CD/SACD and higher-end universal players have been equipped with a word clock input. This mechanism allows the Denon AVRs equipped with this feature, the 4520 for instance, to send a reference clock signal to a Denon Link equipped player through the Denon Link RCA jack and cable to synchronize the transmission of data and almost completely eliminate jitter. This represents a fairly high step above the aforementioned hybrid PLL approach. The Denon Link master clock is most likely located inside the Altera CPLD on the 4520 since this chip provides the general master clock duties. The 8801 quite possibly has the circuit inside it's Altera CPLD but since it lacks the Denon Link RCA jack and it doesn't have the option on the firmware to allow activation through the menu, we're out of luck on this one.

The M-DAX (Marantz Dynamic Audio eXpander) is not AL32. It's intended to partially reverse the negative effects of compression on lossy audio codecs such as MP3. I haven't tested this feature yet as I don't really listen to MP3s but I eventually will out of curiosity and to evaluate how successful it is at the task it's intended to address. The Denon 4520 has the same feature but it's called the "Restorer". Sounds like something Arnold Schwarzenegger could be advertising. smile.gif Again more brand differentiation. I actually like the name of the feature on the Marantz better.

M-DAX description on page 122 of the AV8801 owner's manual :
"Compressed audio formats such as MP3, WMA (Windows Media Audio) and MPEG-4 AAC reduce the
amount of data by eliminating signal components that are hard for the human ear to hear. The M-DAX
function generates the signals eliminated upon compression, restoring the sound to conditions near those
of the original sound before compression. It also corrects the sense of volume of the bass to obtain richer
sound with compressed audio signals."
Edited by jam88 - 1/20/13 at 12:58am
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post #1985 of 5778
1/20/13 at 8:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam88 View Post

No. A PLL (Phase-Look Loop) is an electronic circuit that can have various applications in electronics. It's often used for signal synchronization and clocking purposes. While this Hybrid PPL circuit it is located inside the Altera MAX V CPLD chip for both the Denon 4520 and the Marantz 8801 and inside the Altera FPGA for the Denon AVP-A1HDCI processor (See the AVP-A1HDCI audio block diagram on figure 2 of my AL32 post), in this case it's used to reduce jitter, which is a time deviation error in the transmission of bits and can have various negative effects on sound when fairly high, one of the most notable being a reduced sense of localization of discrete sounds. As JimP, joerod and I were reporting yesterday and other have remarked before, we've observed a more accurate localization and focus of instruments and sounds over the soundstage as well as the improved intelligibility of dialog and vocals. This can probably be attributed in part to the reduction of jitter provided by the hybrid PLL circuit.

This is how Denon explains the hybrid PLL in that 13-page brochure I mentioned on my AL32 post: "In addition by regenerating the master clock with a high-accuracy phase-locked loop (PLL) near the D/A converter, residual jitter is minimized, enabling playback of high-quality sound with clear sound images and contours."

The AV8801 owner's manual mentions the following about the hybrid PLL on page 2:
"Equipped with “Hybrid PLL Jitter Reducer” capable of reducing jitter and phase noise that negatively affect sound quality
“Hybrid PLL Jitter Reducer” provided with this unit improves the sound localization, reproducing a natural sound field."

The Denon Link is Denon's trademark name for what other audio gear manufacturers call a "master clock" or "word clock input". Some Marantz Reference CD/SACD and higher-end universal players have been equipped with a word clock input. This mechanism allows the Denon AVRs equipped with this feature, the 4520 for instance, to send a reference clock signal to a Denon Link equipped player through the Denon Link RCA jack and cable to synchronize the transmission of data and almost completely eliminate jitter. This represents a fairly high step above the aforementioned hybrid PLL approach. The Denon Link master clock is most likely located inside the Altera CPLD on the 4520 since this chip provides the general master clock duties. The 8801 quite possibly has the circuit inside it's Altera CPLD but since it lacks the Denon Link RCA jack and it doesn't have the option on the firmware to allow activation through the menu, we're out of luck on this one.

The M-DAX (Marantz Dynamic Audio eXpander) is not AL32. It's intended to partially reverse the negative effects of compression on lossy audio codecs such as MP3. I haven't tested this feature yet as I don't really listen to MP3s but I eventually will out of curiosity and to evaluate how successful it is at the task it's intended to address. The Denon 4520 has the same feature but it's called the "Restorer". Sounds like something Arnold Schwarzenegger could be advertising. smile.gif Again more brand differentiation. I actually like the name of the feature on the Marantz better.

M-DAX description on page 122 of the AV8801 owner's manual :
"Compressed audio formats such as MP3, WMA (Windows Media Audio) and MPEG-4 AAC reduce the
amount of data by eliminating signal components that are hard for the human ear to hear. The M-DAX
function generates the signals eliminated upon compression, restoring the sound to conditions near those
of the original sound before compression. It also corrects the sense of volume of the bass to obtain richer
sound with compressed audio signals."

I did further reading on M-DAX just after posting and found just as you said. Thank you for expounding on both of these. Could you further explain the word clock input? What systems include this and is it in the 8801? Wouldn't this "word clock input." be the Marantz Denon Link?
Edited by dahlgren - 1/20/13 at 9:07am
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post #1986 of 5778
1/20/13 at 8:54am
Thread Starter 
^^^ jam88... Nice write-up!
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post #1987 of 5778
1/20/13 at 8:59am
I thought my AV8801 was running a bit warm when not in use, and it turns out that Zones 2, 3 and 4 were remaining on even though I don't use these zones (others had experiences this issue too).

Marantz had sent me the IR (infrared) and Serial RS232 commands for the AV8801. I programmed my Pronto remote to talk to the Marantz via both IR and RS232. With RS232, I can query the Marantz from my Pronto, and I can get the power status of all 5 zones to display in my remote. That's how I discovered the other zones were mysteriously staying on.

It turns out that the Marantz discrete IR remote command for Main Zone "Power On", in the Marantz IR spreadsheet with RC-5 Ex. command "16 12 01", turns on ALL the zones (Main Zone and Zones 2, 3, and 4 all turn on). This sure looks like a bug. There is no discrete IR command for just turning on the Main Zone.

Power-related commands that work correctly:

- The Main Zone "Power Off" command (in the Marantz spreadsheet with RC-5 Ex command 16 12 02) turns off the Main Zone power (only), but it does not turn off the power for Zones 2, 3, and 4 (as expected).

- The "System Power Off" command (RC-5 Ex command 16 12 13) turns off power to all 4 zones. So, the Main Zone "Power On" command works more like a system power on command instead of just a Main Zone Power On command (again, I think the Power On command turning on all zones is a bug. It makes sense that there's a System Power Off command that turns off all zones, but it doesn't make as much sense to turn on all zones at the same time. Or if it does make sense, then at least provide a discrete IR command to turn ONY the Main Zone without messing with the other zones.


I have not yet tested the discrete power on commands for zones 2 to 4 since I don't use zones 2 to 4.

The original Marantz remote (when set to "MAIN" for the zone to control) turns on only the Main zone when the Power toggle button is pressed. Zones 2, 3, and 4 remain off. However, this is not a discrete command. It's a power toggle, so it is not useful when used in a universal remote where discrete commands are needed.

I am also using RS232 (serial) protocol. I use the Main Zone Power On command "ZMON", and it correctly turns ON only the Main Zone power.

A workaround others have mentioned earlier is that they just change the source input which would just turn on the Marantz if needed. However, IMO, we still need a working discrete power on command.

To summarize Marantz should provide a firmware update to correctly support a discrete power on command for the Main Zone.
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post #1988 of 5778
1/20/13 at 9:05am
Audyssey had my crossovers on my surrounds at 40 hz, they're smaller in wall speakers. If i manually adjust the crossovers to 80, will it mess with audyssey xt32?
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post #1989 of 5778
1/20/13 at 9:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mookie b View Post

Audyssey had my crossovers on my surrounds at 40 hz, they're smaller in wall speakers. If i manually adjust the crossovers to 80, will it mess with audyssey xt32?

It's always ok to increase the crossover frequency, just don't lower it.
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post #1990 of 5778
1/20/13 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by randman View Post

I thought my AV8801 was running a bit warm when not in use, and it turns out that Zones 2, 3 and 4 were remaining on even though I don't use these zones (others had experiences this issue too).

Marantz had sent me the IR (infrared) and Serial RS232 commands for the AV8801. I programmed my Pronto remote to talk to the Marantz via both IR and RS232. With RS232, I can query the Marantz from my Pronto, and I can get the power status of all 5 zones to display in my remote. That's how I discovered the other zones were mysteriously staying on.

It turns out that the Marantz discrete IR remote command for Main Zone "Power On", in the Marantz IR spreadsheet with RC-5 Ex. command "16 12 01", turns on ALL the zones (Main Zone and Zones 2, 3, and 4 all turn on). This sure looks like a bug. There is no discrete IR command for just turning on the Main Zone.

Power-related commands that work correctly:

- The Main Zone "Power Off" command (in the Marantz spreadsheet with RC-5 Ex command 16 12 02) turns off the Main Zone power (only), but it does not turn off the power for Zones 2, 3, and 4 (as expected).

- The "System Power Off" command (RC-5 Ex command 16 12 13) turns off power to all 4 zones. So, the Main Zone "Power On" command works more like a system power on command instead of just a Main Zone Power On command (again, I think the Power On command turning on all zones is a bug. It makes sense that there's a System Power Off command that turns off all zones, but it doesn't make as much sense to turn on all zones at the same time. Or if it does make sense, then at least provide a discrete IR command to turn ONY the Main Zone without messing with the other zones.


I have not yet tested the discrete power on commands for zones 2 to 4 since I don't use zones 2 to 4.

The original Marantz remote (when set to "MAIN" for the zone to control) turns on only the Main zone when the Power toggle button is pressed. Zones 2, 3, and 4 remain off. However, this is not a discrete command. It's a power toggle, so it is not useful when used in a universal remote where discrete commands are needed.

I am also using RS232 (serial) protocol. I use the Main Zone Power On command "ZMON", and it correctly turns ON only the Main Zone power.

A workaround others have mentioned earlier is that they just change the source input which would just turn on the Marantz if needed. However, IMO, we still need a working discrete power on command.

To summarize Marantz should provide a firmware update to correctly support a discrete power on command for the Main Zone.

I programmed my remote to turn on the Marantz by selecting the source (ie. Blu-ray) versus using the "power" button. I haven't had the multiple-zone issue on my end.
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post #1991 of 5778
1/20/13 at 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

Is the "Secondary Audio" setting in the player set to "OFF"? When it is set to "ON" sometimes the formats don't come out as you'd expect/want them to.

This was one of the first things I went to do when I installed the 8801 and I THOUGHT I'd made the change. But you were exactly right...scrolling down in the HDMI menu I found the Video Only parameter and corrected the setting. All is well now!! Thank you!!
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post #1992 of 5778
1/20/13 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

I did further reading on M-DAX just after posting and found just as you said. Thank you for expounding on both of these. Could you further explain the word clock input? What systems include this and is it in the 8801? Wouldn't this "word clock input." be the Marantz Denon Link?

Please re-read my initial reply to you, I think you missed something. The Denon Link is the term used by Denon for what other makers call a word clock input or sometimes a word sync. amongst other similar terms. They basically are an input that allows a high precision external digital clock signal to be input into a disc transport, a disc player used only as a transport or even a high-end DAC in order to synchronize the digital bits sent out by the transport through a digital output like coaxial (S/PDIF) or HDMI and in the process almost completely eliminating jitter. The clock can be located inside an AVR like Denon does on the 4520 or an AVP like the AVP-A1HDCI and is identified as the "Denon Link HD" RCA jack ouput in both cases. Some audio gear companies make external boxes whose sole purpose is to be a master clock and can fetch into the thousands of dollars when using exotic elements like rubidium (also used in atomic clocks) or others as their base clock.

As I stated in my last posting on this topic, the AV8801 does not have a clock output like the Denon Link on the 4520 or other higher-end Denon gear since it's missing the RCA jack output for this feature although the master clock may quite possibly be present in the Altera CPLD.


Here's a photo of the back from the now discontinued Marantz SA-7S1 Reference CD/SACD player, the BNC connector clock input is identified by: "EXT. CLOCK INPUT":




Below is the back panel from the Esoteric (Teac) K-01 CD/SACD player where the clock input's BNC connector is referred to as: "WORD SYNC".




Finally, here's a photo of an Esoteric G-0Rb rubidium-based master clock.

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post #1993 of 5778
1/20/13 at 12:17pm
Just put in an order for this unit, upgrading from the Marantz AV8003. I'll be getting the unit in a couple of weeks, so I'm starting to prepare a little.

Have read a few pages here, and have some questions.

-Anybody upgraded from the AV8003? Is there an upgrade in sound quality?

-The Zone problem with the power, isn't there any way to turn the zones off in the menu so it won't turn on when using standby?

Since the AV8003 have some "problems" with HD sound and Audyssey, I have run the AV8003 in Pure Direct for movies for the last few years,
with a clear upgrade from the units prossessed sound, since the Audyssey don't work on HD sound.
One of the reasons for my upgrade is to get the room correction working all the time, since my living room is FAR from optimal.

So to the question, which Audyssey mode is recommended to use?

In front I have Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Concert Grand and VA Maestro senter.
The surrounds are Klipsch RS-64, and the surround back is a pair of Paradgim on wall speakers (don't rememer, but an older version of the Cinema 400 or something)
The front and Klipsch run of Rotels RMB-1575, and the Paradgim run of Rotel RB-06.

Should the Audyssey try and make the back speakers sound like the front, og just run it in normal mode?
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post #1994 of 5778
1/20/13 at 2:09pm
There are really only two Audyssey modes to choose from .... either Audyssey or Audyssey Flat. Some prefer the "Flat" more so with music while most just use the default Audyssey setting for all audio. Also, as the 8003 only uses MultEQ, there should be a noticeable improvement in audio fidelity going to the 8801 with XT32 and even more so since you apparently haven't even been using Audyssey at all. eek.gif
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post #1995 of 5778
1/20/13 at 3:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam88 View Post

Please re-read my initial reply to you, I think you missed something. The Denon Link is the term used by Denon for what other makers call a word clock input or sometimes a word sync. amongst other similar terms. They basically are an input that allows a high precision external digital clock signal to be input into a disc transport, a disc player used only as a transport or even a high-end DAC in order to synchronize the digital bits sent out by the transport through a digital output like coaxial (S/PDIF) or HDMI and in the process almost completely eliminating jitter. The clock can be located inside an AVR like Denon does on the 4520 or an AVP like the AVP-A1HDCI and is identified as the "Denon Link HD" RCA jack ouput in both cases. Some audio gear companies make external boxes whose sole purpose is to be a master clock and can fetch into the thousands of dollars when using exotic elements like rubidium (also used in atomic clocks) or others as their base clock.

As I stated in my last posting on this topic, the AV8801 does not have a clock output like the Denon Link on the 4520 or other higher-end Denon gear since it's missing the RCA jack output for this feature although the master clock may quite possibly be present in the Altera CPLD.


Here's a photo of the back from the now discontinued Marantz SA-7S1 Reference CD/SACD player, the BNC connector clock input is identified by: "EXT. CLOCK INPUT":




Below is the back panel from the Esoteric (Teac) K-01 CD/SACD player where the clock input's BNC connector is referred to as: "WORD SYNC".




Finally, here's a photo of an Esoteric G-0Rb rubidium-based master clock.


This is excellent information. Thanks!

Wow that is illaborite to have to purchase a "word clock master" additional device just to play CD/SACD jitter free. So Marantz never offered the other end of the "word clock" in an AV or receiver. Marantz seems to have moved to internal hardware with no cable link to address jitter, in their disc players and in their AV or receivers. Seems like Denon provided their customer a better solution all along. I wonder if the Marantz methodology is as effective as Denons.
There must be a bench test to compare.
Edited by dahlgren - 1/20/13 at 4:24pm
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post #1996 of 5778
1/20/13 at 5:57pm
Tonight I was streaming a movie through the Xbox from Amazon video, i have the Xbox set at 5.1 Dolby digital and when i select one of the surround modes on the Marantz i do not get anything out of any of the rear's or surrounds
just 2 channel, of course when i hit stereo mode it comes out of all speakers so i know they are working, am i missing something? everything is through Hdmi.....
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post #1997 of 5778
1/20/13 at 6:06pm
Sounds like the audio signal consisted of a stereo track that was recorded in a DD 5.1 packet so the 8801 only sees phantom center, SL, SR channels. We just discussed this issue with the Wii in one of the Denon threads. It's also known to occur with some TV stations as well.
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post #1998 of 5778
1/20/13 at 7:06pm
With the Marantz players that offered an external clock input, you had to buy a third party master clock generator.

The AV8801 uses the hybrid PLL to internally reduced the jitter. While in theory it won't be as effective as the Denon Link, in practice when fed from a player that puts out very low amounts of jitter, like the Oppo 103 as mentioned on a review I read from a french website, it probably won't make that much difference in the real world. Jitter reduction is just one piece of the puzzle, there are other factors every bit as important and some probably more that have an impact on SQ starting with a good low noise power supply, the DACs, well designed analog output stages, the overall attention paid to lowering the noise floor throughout the whole design, etc. Furthermore, using better quality external amplifiers with the 8801 will produce additional benefits. Ultimately the proof is in the pudding. If I thought I could have saved almost $1K by buying the 4520 and had as good a SQ as with the 8801, I would have done it since I don't have any money to waste needlessly.
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post #1999 of 5778
1/20/13 at 7:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by randman View Post

I thought my AV8801 was running a bit warm when not in use, and it turns out that Zones 2, 3 and 4 were remaining on even though I don't use these zones (others had experiences this issue too).

Marantz had sent me the IR (infrared) and Serial RS232 commands for the AV8801. I programmed my Pronto remote to talk to the Marantz via both IR and RS232. With RS232, I can query the Marantz from my Pronto, and I can get the power status of all 5 zones to display in my remote. That's how I discovered the other zones were mysteriously staying on.

It turns out that the Marantz discrete IR remote command for Main Zone "Power On", in the Marantz IR spreadsheet with RC-5 Ex. command "16 12 01", turns on ALL the zones (Main Zone and Zones 2, 3, and 4 all turn on). This sure looks like a bug. There is no discrete IR command for just turning on the Main Zone.

Power-related commands that work correctly:

- The Main Zone "Power Off" command (in the Marantz spreadsheet with RC-5 Ex command 16 12 02) turns off the Main Zone power (only), but it does not turn off the power for Zones 2, 3, and 4 (as expected).

- The "System Power Off" command (RC-5 Ex command 16 12 13) turns off power to all 4 zones. So, the Main Zone "Power On" command works more like a system power on command instead of just a Main Zone Power On command (again, I think the Power On command turning on all zones is a bug. It makes sense that there's a System Power Off command that turns off all zones, but it doesn't make as much sense to turn on all zones at the same time. Or if it does make sense, then at least provide a discrete IR command to turn ONY the Main Zone without messing with the other zones.


I have not yet tested the discrete power on commands for zones 2 to 4 since I don't use zones 2 to 4.

The original Marantz remote (when set to "MAIN" for the zone to control) turns on only the Main zone when the Power toggle button is pressed. Zones 2, 3, and 4 remain off. However, this is not a discrete command. It's a power toggle, so it is not useful when used in a universal remote where discrete commands are needed.

I am also using RS232 (serial) protocol. I use the Main Zone Power On command "ZMON", and it correctly turns ON only the Main Zone power.

A workaround others have mentioned earlier is that they just change the source input which would just turn on the Marantz if needed. However, IMO, we still need a working discrete power on command.

To summarize Marantz should provide a firmware update to correctly support a discrete power on command for the Main Zone.

omg i realized this earlier today too, when i was rewiring some stuff and realized that my marantz was still on for zones 2 3 and 4 as well.

i use a logitech harmony one remote.

i cannot for the life of me figure out how to turn it off properly too =/
Edited by ufokillerz - 1/20/13 at 7:53pm
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post #2000 of 5778
1/20/13 at 8:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Sounds like the audio signal consisted of a stereo track that was recorded in a DD 5.1 packet so the 8801 only sees phantom center, SL, SR channels. We just discussed this issue with the Wii in one of the Denon threads. It's also known to occur with some TV stations as well.

SL AND SR Or do you mean FL &FR? Never seemed too have this happen with another pre pro? i caught it when my 5 channel amp kept shutting down as i have it on auto, No signal so it shuts down, now that i think about it the center channel was playing i believe ? I'll have to check on that because i don't understand why the amp was turning off if the center channel was on....
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post #2001 of 5778
1/20/13 at 9:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

omg i realized this earlier today too, when i was rewiring some stuff and realized that my marantz was still on for zones 2 3 and 4 as well.

i use a logitech harmony one remote.

i cannot for the life of me figure out how to turn it off properly too =/



For Harmony 1 owners.

The turn on command for the 8801 has to be the input name. There is something wrong with the logitech data base. You'll have to use the 8801 remote to train/teach the harmony 1 the command for cable/satellite.

If you use standby to turn the 8801 on, you'll turn on all zones. If you have done this, then you can turn them off on the front of the 8801.
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post #2002 of 5778
1/20/13 at 9:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

T Also, as the 8003 only uses MultEQ, there should be a noticeable improvement in audio fidelity going to the 8801 with XT32 and even more so since you apparently haven't even been using Audyssey at all. eek.gif

Good to know. Never saw any reason to use Audyssey on the AV8003 since it couldn't be applied to DTS MA or Dolby True HD. It's only from BD and music I need good quality sound, and music always sounded way better in Pure Direct, and so did movies. TV and PC content don't have any good audio anyways...
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post #2003 of 5778
1/20/13 at 11:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

There are really only two Audyssey modes to choose from .... either Audyssey or Audyssey Flat. Some prefer the "Flat" more so with music while most just use the default Audyssey setting for all audio. Also, as the 8003 only uses MultEQ, there should be a noticeable improvement in audio fidelity going to the 8801 with XT32 and even more so since you apparently haven't even been using Audyssey at all. eek.gif

There is also bypass mains and Audyssey everything else!
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post #2004 of 5778
1/21/13 at 2:48am
A setting not recommended at any time which is why I indicated "really only two". wink.gif
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post #2005 of 5778
1/21/13 at 2:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post

SL AND SR Or do you mean FL &FR? Never seemed too have this happen with another pre pro? i caught it when my 5 channel amp kept shutting down as i have it on auto, No signal so it shuts down, now that i think about it the center channel was playing i believe ? I'll have to check on that because i don't understand why the amp was turning off if the center channel was on....

Unless i misunderstood your post, I read it to say that you were only hearing audio from the FL/FR speakers and if that is the case and the Amazon video was supposed to be in DD 5.1, then the remaining 3 channels were "phantom" channels.
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post #2006 of 5778
1/21/13 at 4:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

There is also bypass mains and Audyssey everything else!



Why would the Audyssey everthing but mains be used?
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post #2007 of 5778
1/21/13 at 4:21am
Exactly ... which is why it's not recommended even by Audyssey co-founder Chris K. ... it's an option put their by the mfr.
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post #2008 of 5778
1/21/13 at 4:43am
When I ran Audessey for the first time I was amazed at how accurately it set the speaker levels. I have enjoyed Audessey on several Denon, Onkyo, and Integra units over the years and always needed to make significant adjustments to the levels especially the sub channels. I was pleasantly surprised at how accurately Audessey has been implemented on the 8801!

I am lovin how the Marantz sounds and am impressed at how powerful she is having all external amps for the first time in my home theater. For the first time I am completely satisfied listening at or slightly above reference level which I think is testimony to quality of the Marantz along with of course that of the Parasound and Integra amps.

I am a happy camper!!!
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post #2009 of 5778
1/21/13 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by randman View Post

I thought my AV8801 was running a bit warm when not in use, and it turns out that Zones 2, 3 and 4 were remaining on even though I don't use these zones (others had experiences this issue too).

Marantz had sent me the IR (infrared) and Serial RS232 commands for the AV8801. I programmed my Pronto remote to talk to the Marantz via both IR and RS232. With RS232, I can query the Marantz from my Pronto, and I can get the power status of all 5 zones to display in my remote. That's how I discovered the other zones were mysteriously staying on.

It turns out that the Marantz discrete IR remote command for Main Zone "Power On", in the Marantz IR spreadsheet with RC-5 Ex. command "16 12 01", turns on ALL the zones (Main Zone and Zones 2, 3, and 4 all turn on). This sure looks like a bug. There is no discrete IR command for just turning on the Main Zone.

Power-related commands that work correctly:

- The Main Zone "Power Off" command (in the Marantz spreadsheet with RC-5 Ex command 16 12 02) turns off the Main Zone power (only), but it does not turn off the power for Zones 2, 3, and 4 (as expected).

- The "System Power Off" command (RC-5 Ex command 16 12 13) turns off power to all 4 zones. So, the Main Zone "Power On" command works more like a system power on command instead of just a Main Zone Power On command (again, I think the Power On command turning on all zones is a bug. It makes sense that there's a System Power Off command that turns off all zones, but it doesn't make as much sense to turn on all zones at the same time. Or if it does make sense, then at least provide a discrete IR command to turn ONY the Main Zone without messing with the other zones.


I have not yet tested the discrete power on commands for zones 2 to 4 since I don't use zones 2 to 4.

The original Marantz remote (when set to "MAIN" for the zone to control) turns on only the Main zone when the Power toggle button is pressed. Zones 2, 3, and 4 remain off. However, this is not a discrete command. It's a power toggle, so it is not useful when used in a universal remote where discrete commands are needed.

I am also using RS232 (serial) protocol. I use the Main Zone Power On command "ZMON", and it correctly turns ON only the Main Zone power.

A workaround others have mentioned earlier is that they just change the source input which would just turn on the Marantz if needed. However, IMO, we still need a working discrete power on command.

To summarize Marantz should provide a firmware update to correctly support a discrete power on command for the Main Zone.

Great find. I have pronto as well, so I make sure I use the System Power off when programming it.
Is Marantz aware of the problem? I am not familiar with the product support. Are they good about providing fixes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

I programmed my remote to turn on the Marantz by selecting the source (ie. Blu-ray) versus using the "power" button. I haven't had the multiple-zone issue on my end.

Thanks for the Tip.
It means that instead of using a Power On, I will have to use the select source only which isn't really that bad.

- Rich
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post #2010 of 5778
1/21/13 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

There is no need to restrict Dynmaic IPs to 5. This is NOT a good idea.
If you are having problems. Just increase it. It costs nothing.

- Rich

Somehow I have about 54 active IP nodes in my house...I must have a small Russian hacker community hiding in my attic...
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