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Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 69

post #2041 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbarrickman View Post

Not yet AFAIK but joerod compared the Denon AVR-4520 to the Marantz 8801, I believe that is what he is referring to...

"compared". A term easily in the AVS avr/pre/pro forum's top 5 most cringe-worthy.

If I could make one single change to AVS it would be that these "comparisons" were minimized- like spoilers in a movie review- and you'd have to go out of your way to click on them and read them.

I am so close to gathering up a Denon 4520, Denon 4311, Marantz 8801, and Onkyo 3010 and having a series of level-matched ABXs just to put an end to this nonsense for anyone with an open mind. I'd like to say it's just me, but after reading- literally- hundreds of people all-but begging for them to stop, I know I'm far from alone. Science on a science forum, anyone?

Yes, I realize there are a number on a SCIENCE forum that will refute good SCIENCE to the nth, but at least we'd save a few with a properly conducted listening exercise. Be a great learning experience, to boot.

now people are swearing they are hearing "better localization" due to reductions in jitter? But if you told them the "other" unit had less jitter/"better" components, then they'd hear it on that unit.

this is insane.

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 1/22/13 at 6:48am
post #2042 of 11327
Hello All

If some one can help me with ATT & Peak issues I had previously, it would be awesome.

Basically peak indicator flash while running analogue to the preamp AV8003. If I keep it as pure direct, this problem disappears or if I input digital signal.

Do we have this same issue with 8801 as well?

I am currently offered a great price on this pre pro by my dealer.
post #2043 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

"compared". A term easily in the AVS avr/pre/pro forum's top 5 most cringe-worthy.

If I could make one single change to AVS it would be that these "comparisons" were minimized- like spoilers in a movie review- and you'd have to go out of your way to click on them and read them.

I am so close to gathering up a Denon 4520, Denon 4311, Marantz 8801, and Onkyo 3010 and having a series of level-matched ABXs just to put an end to this nonsense for anyone with an open mind. I'd like to say it's just me, but after reading- literally- hundreds of people all-but begging for them to stop, I know I'm far from alone. Science on a science forum, anyone?

Yes, I realize there are a number on a SCIENCE forum that will refute good SCIENCE to the nth, but at least we'd save a few with a properly conducted listening exercise. Be a great learning experience, to boot.

now people are swearing they are hearing "better localization" due to reductions in jitter? But if you told them the "other" unit had less jitter/"better" components, then they'd hear it on that unit.

this is insane.

James

WIth all due respect, but you just built your own subwoofers, noted how great they sounded, and when someone asked for REW measurements, you more or less indicated to didn't have even have a mic to test in room response. So was your effusive assessment scientific or visceral? I don't have a problem with the latter, but here in this thread, you seem to.

"Science" has its place, but it is a) not really practiced here despite the site's name, and b) is not the only or perhaps even most important way to assess one's experience and satisfaction/dissatisfaction with a component.
post #2044 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

So the gremlins have vanished, at least for now, and I don't know why. Very befuddling

With the original unit, and for about three hours of the new unit, this is what I saw (and confirmed, no audio from the heights and wides) Difficult to see, the note the height and wide icons are not illuminated.




Now, the heights and wides are working - icons are now illuminated, and there is sound.



What is different?

1) Did not run Audyssey yet on the new unit, but that condition didn't matter for the first three hours of testing with the new unit when things werent working, so don't think that's related

2) I also tried a single RCA to one of my wides, which didn't work (not that it should matter, but I went through the 8801 guided setup for amp connection and selected RCA for the wides)

3) I then cycled through a variety of surround modes, and settled back on Neo:X, and it began to work. I powered down, unplugged, tried different sources, and it continues to work at least for this evening.

However, there is a Center Gain parameter that is supposed to be active in the Surround Parameters menu when Neo:X is active, and this I still don't see...



Extremely bizarre....

that is weird, i might have the same problem
i did not run audyssey
i can not get my wides to turn on
but i can get my heights on with neox as soon as i changed it to heights instead of wides.
i am not running a center speaker currently though.
post #2045 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

that is weird, i might have the same problem
i did not run audyssey
i can not get my wides to turn on
but i can get my heights on with neox as soon as i changed it to heights instead of wides.
i am not running a center speaker currently though.

What is your exact config? 11.1/2?

What do you mean "but i can get my heights on with neox as soon as i changed it to heights instead of wides"?

Do your wides/heights work with DSX mode?

Is this with DTS-MA HD and TrueHD or for any format?
post #2046 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

"compared". A term easily in the AVS avr/pre/pro forum's top 5 most cringe-worthy.

If I could make one single change to AVS it would be that these "comparisons" were minimized- like spoilers in a movie review- and you'd have to go out of your way to click on them and read them.

I am so close to gathering up a Denon 4520, Denon 4311, Marantz 8801, and Onkyo 3010 and having a series of level-matched ABXs just to put an end to this nonsense for anyone with an open mind. I'd like to say it's just me, but after reading- literally- hundreds of people all-but begging for them to stop, I know I'm far from alone. Science on a science forum, anyone?

Yes, I realize there are a number on a SCIENCE forum that will refute good SCIENCE to the nth, but at least we'd save a few with a properly conducted listening exercise. Be a great learning experience, to boot.

now people are swearing they are hearing "better localization" due to reductions in jitter? But if you told them the "other" unit had less jitter/"better" components, then they'd hear it on that unit.

this is insane.

James

Now that is a comparison, I would love to read about.

Good point about terms.
Triggers are pulled on guns, not on purchases tongue.gif

I have my own gripes as well. How in the world people play movies to review these products is beyond me.
Unless one really sucks, they are all going to sound good.
If a product adds a bunch of treble, the veil will be lifted (Veils belong on Muslim women, and most should definitely NOT be lifted) smile.gif

I have an Oppo BDP-105 which I connect analog. When I get the AV8801 to replace my Onkyo PR-5507, I will not directly compare them, but I can indirectly compare by comparing the analog inputs to the digital on the 5507. I am assuming the AV8801 is at least as good at analog as the 5507.

- Rich

P.S. Still, I like to hear people opinions...
post #2047 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Now that is a comparison, I would love to read about.

Good point about terms.
Triggers are pulled on guns, not on purchases tongue.gif

I have my own gripes as well. How in the world people play movies to review these products is beyond me.
Unless one really sucks, they are all going to sound good.
If a product adds a bunch of treble, the veil will be lifted (Veils belong on Muslim women, and most should definitely NOT be lifted) smile.gif

I have an Oppo BDP-105 which I connect analog. When I get the AV8801 to replace my Onkyo PR-5507, I will not directly compare them, but I can indirectly compare by comparing the analog inputs to the digital on the 5507. I am assuming the AV8801 is at least as good at analog as the 5507.

- Rich

P.S. Still, I like to hear people opinions...

Agreed! This is a owners forum not strict science forum. I value both.
post #2048 of 11327
How did the $1000 package discount work? Is it a rebate? Do you have to buy them the same day?
post #2049 of 11327
"AVSForum is designed for members to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability."

Definitely not designated as a science forum. smile.gif

Dave
post #2050 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by mookie b View Post

How did the $1000 package discount work? Is it a rebate? Do you have to buy them the same day?

I believe it was a package deal, both had to be invoiced together IIRC...
post #2051 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

WIth all due respect, but you just built your own subwoofers, noted how great they sounded, and when someone asked for REW measurements, you more or less indicated to didn't have even have a mic to test in room response. So was your effusive assessment scientific or visceral? I don't have a problem with the latter, but here in this thread, you seem to.

"Science" has its place, but it is a) not really practiced here despite the site's name, and b) is not the only or perhaps even most important way to assess one's experience and satisfaction/dissatisfaction with a component.


Correct. I said they sounded great. Notice that I didn't speak to any "magical" hyperbolic nonsense re the betterment of the sound over what I had...huge distinction. And why did I do it in the first place: for more output that will certainly be needed in my new space and indeed IS very much scientifically viable/measurable.

I have 3 mics, btw, so not sure what the h I was talking about, new to REW, though.

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 1/22/13 at 9:54am
post #2052 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

Agreed! This is a owners forum not strict science forum. I value both.

Sure, but any reasonable person can understand the distinction I'm alluding to: speaking/opining upon usability, flexibility, features, remote layout, datta ta dah. Fine. That's not where the issue lies, of course.

I suppose it just becomes SO predictable with a certain lot...as soon as they're "told" that unit "b" includes x, y, z that "should" make it sound better than unit "a", what do you know, it does. Oh! "improved" DACs (read: bigger numbers), reduced jitter, "isolated this", "increased that" ...gross.

Seeing this is slightly OT (not really as it's an effort to dissolve unhelpful, unsubstantiated bias) that'll be that.

James
post #2053 of 11327
James- you are mighty welcome to audition my two channel sound system (music only). Assuming you are a rational person with normal hearing and at least a passing interest in the quality of reproduced sound, then I'm willing to wager lunch and drinks that you will no longer question whether or not DACs, pre-amps, power amps, etc all sound the same. Frankly, how is it scientific to deny that all DACs have the same circuitry when in fact that is not the case (both digital conversion and analog stages)? Or is it that the circuitry has no impact on sound quality? Yeah, science. And do you scientists ignore the power supply designs and their impact on sound quality? As for amps, do you look at, say, THD and leap to a conclusion about sound quality!? How could that be when THD figures are arrived at in different ways, many of which have an enormous impact on sound quality (negative feedback, anyone)?

I wonder what some of you must think of today's top hi-end audio designers? Does it really make sense that so many brilliant engineers are so dedicated to the fidelity of reproduced sound if, as you seem to believe, all gear is essentially the same? Really?
post #2054 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Sure, but any reasonable person can understand the distinction I'm alluding to: speaking/opining upon usability, flexibility, features, remote layout, datta ta dah. Fine. That's not where the issue lies, of course.

I suppose it just becomes SO predictable with a certain lot...as soon as they're "told" that unit "b" includes x, y, z that "should" make it sound better than unit "a", what do you know, it does. Oh! "improved" DACs (read: bigger numbers), reduced jitter, "isolated this", "increased that" ...gross.

Seeing this is slightly OT (not really as it's an effort to dissolve unhelpful, unsubstantiated bias) that'll be that.

James

[Joking]
I find this post, eye opening.
With new detail, alsmost holographic.
As opposed to your earlier posts where fine details were smeared and lifeless.
Gone was was bloated bass, replaced by sound that was tightly controlled and detailed.
[/Joking]

Seriously, I think we get your point.

- Rich
post #2055 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

What is your exact config? 11.1/2?

What do you mean "but i can get my heights on with neox as soon as i changed it to heights instead of wides"?

Do your wides/heights work with DSX mode?

Is this with DTS-MA HD and TrueHD or for any format?

i do not see dsx options at all, i have no run audyssey yet, i'm guessing i have to run audyssey first?

i do have enough speakers to run 11.2 if i want but only doing 9.2 due to not having enough amps hooked up

basically i had some speakers hooked up to wides, i did not see any options that would enable wide speakers in any sound modes, they do work though in multi chanel stereo

i changed up to heights because i just installed some height speakers, and i get a few options that have heights available

i am unsure of my format.
post #2056 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

i do not see dsx options at all, i have no run audyssey yet, i'm guessing i have to run audyssey first?
That seems reasonable.
Quote:
basically i had some speakers hooked up to wides, i did not see any options that would enable wide speakers in any sound modes, they do work though in multi chanel stereo

i changed up to heights because i just installed some height speakers, and i get a few options that have heights available
Audyssey has no jurisdiction over Neo:X, so its wide and height outputs should be available regardless of running Audyssey or not. I say "should." rolleyes.gif
post #2057 of 11327
So I've come to learn the Marantz is aware of a bug relating to heights and wides, and it will be addressed in a forthcoming firmware fix sometime in February, likely.

So I'm not nuts.

Well, I am, but not in this slender example...
post #2058 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

So I've come to learn the Marantz is aware of a bug relating to heights and wides, and it will be addressed in a forthcoming firmware fix sometime in February.

Uh oh.

Mine seem to be working fine so far as 11.2 and I am lovin it so anything I should be aware of?
post #2059 of 11327
speaking of Audyssey, any of you know if Audyssey Pro in this unit allows for shelving filters or any other type of L/T equivalent?
post #2060 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by discodol View Post

Uh oh.

Mine seem to be working fine so far as 11.2 and I am lovin it so anything I should be aware of?

Not sure what causes it, or in my case, what un-caused it after three hours with the new unit....but I take it as a good sign that they are actively working on addressing any lingering issues quickly.
post #2061 of 11327
Hi thrang,
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Not sure what causes it, or in my case, what un-caused it after three hours with the new unit....but I take it as a good sign that they are actively working on addressing any lingering issues quickly.

That's good news as I also have an 11.2 installation and after reading your impressions of the 8801 wink.gif, I sold my 4520 to make the acquisition of a 8801. It should be arriving tomorrow or the day after.

Now after discovering the DTS Neo X with the 4520, this is the only processing I use today (even though I was a huge fan of DSX). So as all the connections will be in XLR, I hope that everything will be working fine, immediately.

Anyway I have a question concerning the RCA/XLR declaration. Where in the menu can you do that? A I couldn't find any indication of this possibility anywhere in the manual.

Merci.

Hugo

PS: it willbe Pro calibrated, same as was the 4520.
post #2062 of 11327
There is no RCA/XLR setting.
post #2063 of 11327
I was pleasantly surprised that the AV8801 supports a web browser interface, and you can save and load settings to/from a PC. I just got a replacement AV8801 (previous one had a defective network port 1). I assume I can save the settings from my old unit and load them to the new one.... That would save a lot of time.
post #2064 of 11327
from the sounds of it, the av8801 is supported by audyssey pro even though its not listed on the installer ready list yet?

looks like i have to buy myself a mic soon!
post #2065 of 11327
On the AV8801, is it OK to use the XLR outputs for front, center & surrounds and the RCA output for the sub? This won't cause a problem with the Audyssey calibration? The sub I am considering buying has no XLR input, but my B&K amp has them.

Also, if I'm using the CBL/SAT input for my cable box (hdmi 1) , can the dig. coax input number 1 (also labeled CBL/SAT) be used? If I pressed the CBL/SAT input on the remote, is there a way to switch between Hdmi 1 and coax 1 if both are lableled CBL/SAT?

Thanks!
post #2066 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfav View Post

There is no RCA/XLR setting.

In the guided setup there is, though I believe it is just to help the uninitiated connect things...there is a relay click when you are done, but all outputs are active. According to marantz, it uses these settings to "check polarity"?
Edited by thrang - 1/22/13 at 4:49pm
post #2067 of 11327

Heard that it is a super sounding pre/pro biggrin.gif

post #2068 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

In the guided setup there is, though I believe it is just to help the uninitiated connect things...there is a relay click when you are done, but all outputs are active. According to marantz, it uses these settings to "check polarity"?

So there are XLR polarity settings?

- Rich
post #2069 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

So there are XLR polarity settings?

- Rich

No - my marantz resource said it "checks polarity", but I could get no further details...Frankly, I don't know that it does anything other than guide you how to hook things up if your a newbie I suppose, but I'm passing on what I was told....there is a relay click when you are done with the process however...
post #2070 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

James- you are mighty welcome to audition my two channel sound system (music only). Assuming you are a rational person with normal hearing and at least a passing interest in the quality of reproduced sound, then I'm willing to wager lunch and drinks that you will no longer question whether or not DACs, pre-amps, power amps, etc all sound the same. Frankly, how is it scientific to deny that all DACs have the same circuitry when in fact that is not the case (both digital conversion and analog stages)? Or is it that the circuitry has no impact on sound quality? Yeah, science. And do you scientists ignore the power supply designs and their impact on sound quality? As for amps, do you look at, say, THD and leap to a conclusion about sound quality!? How could that be when THD figures are arrived at in different ways, many of which have an enormous impact on sound quality (negative feedback, anyone)?

I wonder what some of you must think of today's top hi-end audio designers? Does it really make sense that so many brilliant engineers are so dedicated to the fidelity of reproduced sound if, as you seem to believe, all gear is essentially the same? Really?


Not. Even. Remotely. The. Contention.

Oh my.

James
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