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Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 73

post #2161 of 11313
Anyone with issues with the Harmony One remote submit a request to Harmony to have them go into your settings and make the corrections?

I have done that in the past and they usually take care of stuff like that, send you an email telling you to update the remote and try it, and let them know if the issue was resolved. They have great customer service.
post #2162 of 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by denaliman View Post

I just ordered the AV8801. I want to put it in my HT rack. Does anyone have the Marantz rack kit installed? any pictures installed in rack? Not sure if I should go with the Marantz kit or have Middle Atlantic make me a custom RSH faceplate.

What did you end up doing?
post #2163 of 11313
I received my AV-8801 just before Christmas, and have been enjoying it immensely. I have only done a quick Audyssey auto setup, as my room is changing. I am running wides, but not heights or surround backs yet with A-DSX. Overall, I feel as though there has been a major improvement in sound quality with imaging and resolution.

I use A-DSX on TV and movies, but not with audio only sources. I love the effect of extra width, and am really looking forward to getting the height and surround backs installed. The only negative to A-DSX I have noticed so far is a weird effect on a few TV commercials with A-DSX causing a flanging sound with dialog that warbles between the center and wide channels.

I do have a couple of questions that don't seem to be covered in the manual.

1. Does anyone know if either DTS-MA HD and Dolby True HD or PCM audio at 24/96 can be output through the Zone 4 HDMI output? I'd like to connect the Zone 4 HDMI output to another pre/pro in the next room, and still get HD audio.

2. Can the 7.1 input be seen on the Zone 4 HDMI output? From what I've read in the manual, the 7.1 input can have EQ and LFE settings applied. This implies that there is A/D conversion of this input, so its source may be able to be output via HDMI. I have quadraphonic analog sources that I'd also like to be able to send to the next room.

Steven
post #2164 of 11313
Nothing yet. I don't have the unit yet, but I think I will go with the Mid Atlantic option.
post #2165 of 11313
I have a quick question, may be even stupid questions. Can I have the height channels installed 4 feet above front L&R?
post #2166 of 11313
For those who wonder about the low load capability of the MM-8077, I have some anecdotal evidence to report.

I use Apogee ribbons (Centaur Minor, Persius LCR) which nominally present a 6 ohm load to a speaker. However, in real world action, Apogees are notoriously hard to drive, often presenting loads below 4 ohms, depending on frequency content of the source. Both models use a ribbon for the mid-range and tweeter, and Vifa woofers below 800 hz.

I'm currently using an MM-7055, on loan from my dealer until my MM-8077 arrives. I have had zero issues with this amp. further, it is not as robust as the MM-8077, which has a better (Toroidal) power supply and capacitors. The better quality of the MM-8077 should hopefully provide more headroom, and also be better than the MM-7055 at driving low load speakers.

Will the MM-8077 drive a pair of Apogee Divas, or Full Ranges? I wouldn't try it.

But I do plan on comparing the MM-8077 to my Llano A-100 driving the full range Apogee Stage ribbon panels of my Mini-Grand system. The A-100 is a pure class A amp rated at 100 RMS into 8 ohms, and 200 RMS into 4 ohms. Frankly, I expect that the MM-8077 will drive the Stages adequately, but I doubt it can do the quality job that the Llano does.

Steven.
post #2167 of 11313
rramacha Can I have the height channels installed 4 feet above front L&R? rramacha

I have installed my highs and wides where they best fit in the room. If 4ft above your front speakers makes sense in your room there is no reason not to try it. If you don't like how they sound there you can always move them.

My highs are 5 feet above my front speakers against the ceiling and they sound awesome so I would imagine that at 4 feet yours will sound great too!
post #2168 of 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by discodol View Post

rramacha Can I have the height channels installed 4 feet above front L&R? rramacha

I have installed my highs and wides where they best fit in the room. If 4ft above your front speakers makes sense in your room there is no reason not to try it. If you don't like how they sound there you can always move them.

My highs are 5 feet above my front speakers against the ceiling and they sound awesome so I would imagine that at 4 feet yours will sound great too!

Thank you. I will definitely try this.
post #2169 of 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by cp1966 View Post

Anyone with issues with the Harmony One remote submit a request to Harmony to have them go into your settings and make the corrections?

I have done that in the past and they usually take care of stuff like that, send you an email telling you to update the remote and try it, and let them know if the issue was resolved. They have great customer service.

 

They decided to sell the remotes business so who know what's next!

post #2170 of 11313
My AV8801 arrived today.

I got it setup with no Audyssey.

Using the Oppo BDP-105:
The analog performance with my 7.1 inputs in Pure Direct is excellent.
If you go into direct mode, you get the usual treble boost with in my opinion is a degradation.
The XLR inputs also sound excellent. I am not sure who wins the Pure Direct mode battle.
Like my Onkyo PR-SC5507, the XLR are digitized, at least in some modes.
This allows sound processing on these inputs.

From my TIVo:
Most sources are Dolby Digital.
The sound is pretty bad.
No bass, no sound field.
I have to play with pure mode to see if it can be made tolerable.
Otherwise, I will not be keeping it.

A processor must first have good analog performance to be acceptable.
This one does that. But the Onkyo is much better at Dolby digital and since I watch a lot of TV, that is a big problem.

- Rich
post #2171 of 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

1.  If you go into direct mode, you get the usual treble boost with in my opinion is a degradation.

2.  A processor must first have good analog performance to be acceptable.
 

1.  How come?  Why would a "direct" mode boost or add?  To what are you comparing it?
2.  My main processor has no purely analog mode. ;-)

post #2172 of 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

My AV8801 arrived today.

I got it setup with no Audyssey.

Using the Oppo BDP-105:
The analog performance with my 7.1 inputs in Pure Direct is excellent.
If you go into direct mode, you get the usual treble boost with in my opinion is a degradation.
The XLR inputs also sound excellent. I am not sure who wins the Pure Direct mode battle.
Like my Onkyo PR-SC5507, the XLR are digitized, at least in some modes.
This allows sound processing on these inputs.

From my TIVo:
Most sources are Dolby Digital.
The sound is pretty bad.
No bass, no sound field.
I have to play with pure mode to see if it can be made tolerable.
Otherwise, I will not be keeping it.

A processor must first have good analog performance to be acceptable.
This one does that. But the Onkyo is much better at Dolby digital and since I watch a lot of TV, that is a big problem.

- Rich

Regarding Tivo;

Are you using HDMI or an optical cable for sound? I wonder if this is a common problem, so far a majority of users love this preamp. That would be sad if you had to return it.
post #2173 of 11313
Just ordered a Marantz AV8801 and a region-free Oppo BDP-105, both will be arriving next week. I will use them together with my Seaton CAT12's and a pair of Danley SM60F's. I can't wait. smile.gif
post #2174 of 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

My AV8801 arrived today.

I got it setup with no Audyssey.

Using the Oppo BDP-105:
The analog performance with my 7.1 inputs in Pure Direct is excellent.
If you go into direct mode, you get the usual treble boost with in my opinion is a degradation.
The XLR inputs also sound excellent. I am not sure who wins the Pure Direct mode battle.
Like my Onkyo PR-SC5507, the XLR are digitized, at least in some modes.
This allows sound processing on these inputs.

From my TIVo:
Most sources are Dolby Digital.
The sound is pretty bad.
No bass, no sound field.
I have to play with pure mode to see if it can be made tolerable.
Otherwise, I will not be keeping it.

A processor must first have good analog performance to be acceptable.
This one does that. But the Onkyo is much better at Dolby digital and since I watch a lot of TV, that is a big problem.

- Rich

If you haven't run Audyssey, then did you manually setup the distances and levels for all speakers and subwoofer?

If so, how did you determine your subwoofer distance?
post #2175 of 11313
It seems DSX sends a lot more content to the height speakers than NEO X. Is that consistent with your experiences? I tested Almost Famous on DirecTv and Avengers on Blu ray...barely anything is being sent up there with NEO X, and a good amount of soundtrack is with DSX.

Sound right?
post #2176 of 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post


There are specific voltages involved that must be handled properly.
If you screw that up, it doesn't matter what happens down the line analog or digital. There will be a problem.

- Rich

Actually, the voltages are not that specific...although for disk players these days roughly 2V (unbalanced, anyway) at 0dBFS on the disk seems fairly common.

I doubt it too. However, if the output of the Oppo was exceptionally hot then attenuation using the source level control would prevent any sort of downstream problem.
post #2177 of 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by mookie b View Post

It seems DSX sends a lot more content to the height speakers than NEO X. Is that consistent with your experiences?
Yes.
Quote:
I tested Almost Famous on DirecTv and Avengers on Blu ray...barely anything is being sent up there with NEO X, and a good amount of soundtrack is with DSX.

Sound right?
Your report is accurate. Which sounds right is a matter of opinion. wink.gif
post #2178 of 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

My AV8801 arrived today.

I got it setup with no Audyssey.

Using the Oppo BDP-105:
The analog performance with my 7.1 inputs in Pure Direct is excellent.
If you go into direct mode, you get the usual treble boost with in my opinion is a degradation.
The XLR inputs also sound excellent. I am not sure who wins the Pure Direct mode battle.
Like my Onkyo PR-SC5507, the XLR are digitized, at least in some modes.
This allows sound processing on these inputs.

From my TIVo:
Most sources are Dolby Digital.
The sound is pretty bad.
No bass, no sound field.
I have to play with pure mode to see if it can be made tolerable.
Otherwise, I will not be keeping it.

A processor must first have good analog performance to be acceptable.
This one does that. But the Onkyo is much better at Dolby digital and since I watch a lot of TV, that is a big problem.

- Rich

I don't understand why you would use the analog 7.1 inputs when the 8801 converts the signal to digital for Audyssey, bass management, distance, etc. Are you going analog to take advantage of the Oppo's DACs? I doubt there is audible difference between the DACs in the marantz/oppo PLUS you have to send the signal through the ADC of the Marantz. Its seems like the sound if anything the sound could be worse.

What am I missing? Why use the analog inputs at all?

-Brian
post #2179 of 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post

I don't understand why you would use the analog 7.1 inputs when the 8801 converts the signal to digital for Audyssey, bass management, distance, etc. Are you going analog to take advantage of the Oppo's DACs? I doubt there is audible difference between the DACs in the marantz/oppo PLUS you have to send the signal through the ADC of the Marantz. Its seems like the sound if anything the sound could be worse.

What am I missing? Why use the analog inputs at all?

-Brian

Its the Sabre dac's man:D and while the 8801 is no slouch in dac department regardless of source the 105's dacs are implemented very well and still my choice for 2ch(I have a proper setup and room treatments) even though I still at times do use the 8801 as well. I hope this doesn't confuse you further as I'm in audio bliss having both there is a difference and that option to choose is killer.
post #2180 of 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Its the Sabre dac's man:D and while the 8801 is no slouch in dac department regardless of source the 105's dacs are implemented very well and still my choice for 2ch(I have a proper setup and room treatments) even though I still at times do use the 8801 as well. I hope this doesn't confuse you further as I'm in audio bliss having both there is a difference and that option to choose is killer.
+1

You can even use the Oppo as a pre-amp, completely bypassing the Marantz. They are siblings really, maybe try the Marantz through the Oppo. biggrin.gif
post #2181 of 11313
My only problem using analog stereo XLRs out of my Oppo 95 in (pure direct) is that it lacks bass or better stated, my speakers don't go low enough to perform that well. Above the bass region it does sound better than the hdmi input. Given my speakers are good to around 60hz and I like to boost bass a little, I find that I switch between analog in and digital and wind up leaving on the digital input. If I had speakers that were good to a lower frequency, that equation would change and I'd probably be using analog input..

Then you've got the question of how much your room needs room correction.

It's a mixed bag.
Edited by JimP - 1/26/13 at 4:38am
post #2182 of 11313
JimP,

As I'm sure you're aware, if you don't hear much bass when you're using Direct or Pure Direct, it's because your speakers' woofers simply can't deliver it in your room. You can enable LFE+main to also send the low frequencies to the subwoofer(s) (see page 140 of the owner's manual), but those frequencies aren't removed from the speaker channel outputs, so the mid-range bass frequencies where the frequency ranges of the sub and other speakers overlap are boosted. Some people like that mid-bass boost, of course. You can lower the LPF in the subwoofer channel in the 8801 or on the subwoofer itself to minimize that bump, but doing so can cause a loss of mid-range bass when bass management is enabled.


Bghead8che,

As has already been mentioned, there's no treble boost when using the Direct modes, although there is an upper treble roll-off if you select the "Audyssey" EQ option instead of the "Audyssey Flat" option. Might your speakers' tweeters have a peak in their high frequency output in your room?

I don't think we'll know for sure if the 7.1CH IN connections are digitized until a maintenance manual becomes available. The adjustments I've found in the manual are consistent with adjustable analog circuits (albeit with digital controls). (e.g. LFE level settings - pg 121)

Note that it explicitly states in the HDMI section on pg 127 that the 7.1CH IN signals cannot be output on the HDMI connector, implying that they are NOT digitized.
post #2183 of 11313
Quote:
• The surround mode cannot be set if the input mode is set to “7.1CH IN”.

The above quote from the manual p. 136 also suggests the 7.1 inputs are not digitized.
post #2184 of 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post

I don't understand why you would use the analog 7.1 inputs when the 8801 converts the signal to digital for Audyssey, bass management, distance, etc. Are you going analog to take advantage of the Oppo's DACs? I doubt there is audible difference between the DACs in the marantz/oppo PLUS you have to send the signal through the ADC of the Marantz. Its seems like the sound if anything the sound could be worse.

What am I missing? Why use the analog inputs at all?

-Brian


Just as with Direct and Pure Direct modes, Audyssey is not applied to the analog EXT IN (7.1 inputs) as the signal is not digitized, rather simply amplified.



Edited by jdsmoothie - 1/26/13 at 6:43am
post #2185 of 11313
I found last night I too have the issue with Neo:X with DTS-MA HD. I reset HDMI Audio Setup on my OPPO 83SE to Bitstream from Auto and played a disc and found was not getting audio from the Wides. With the newness of the unit, I had been switching listening modes to compare. I suspect the active lights on my Wide speakers were engaged as I surfed the modes leading me to believe I was getting Wides during the DTS-MA HD NEO:X setting. Thanks to Thrang for pointing this out.
post #2186 of 11313
I received my AV8801 a week ago. This replaced a Denon 4311CI (used as a pre-amp). the 8801 is connected via XLR's to a Emotiva XPA-5. Other inputs are an Oppo 95 connected via XLR, HDMI for 5.1 and Directv box connected to 8801 via HDMI. The Directv box is also connected to Sony 52XBR LX900 via component for tv use without amp.

Above is connected to mains: PSB T2, Center: PSB Imagine C Center and REL T-9 Sub. Looking to replace rear surrounds

The AV8801 sounds amazing and I am extremely happy about my choice but an issue has surfaced that I did not have when using my Denon 4311CI -

When everything is running and controlled through the 8801 and then I go to shutdown the system and use the tv and the directv box; I get a 4-8 second constant pink flashing on my tv. This is after changing the tv input from HDMI in to component in to feed directly from the directv box - not from the AV8801 Monitor #1 HDMI connection. This happens when the AV8801 is in standby mode. I have set the 8801 to feed Blu Ray instead of last used connect.

The HDMI output from the 8801 to the tv is trying to handshake when the 8801 is in standby mode. The only way to get it to stop is to unplug and re-plug the 8801, obviously remove the monitor #1 output cable or re-boot the directv box.

Please note that I have had the same connections prior to getting the AV8801 and everything worked flawlessly. I already replaced the HDMI cable from the directv to the 8801 and will replace the HDMI cable from the Monitor #1 out on the 8801 to the HDMI 1 input on the tv.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

On a side note: Coming from a Denon, I figured a lot of the setup and individual settings controls would be similar. They are and they aren't. I have much more control over detailed settings via the web control for my Denon than I do for the Marantz. For example: no channel db adjustments in the web controller, no surround field control other than toggling through all of them instead of being able to select. Sure I can go to the on screen GUI to do all of the settings but I'd prefer to do the little tweeks to settings behind the scene not on the main screen. Also, my zones keep turning on when I don't want them on and then I have to manually turn them off. I will have to explore options to settings.

Again, any help on the hdmi issue would be appreciated

Brian
post #2187 of 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

My only problem using analog stereo XLRs out of my Oppo 95 in (pure direct) is that it lacks bass or better stated, my speakers don't go low enough to perform that well. Above the bass region it does sound better than the hdmi input. Given my speakers are good to around 60hz and I like to boost bass a little, I find that I switch between analog in and digital and wind up leaving on the digital input. If I had speakers that were good to a lower frequency, that equation would change and I'd probably be using analog input..

Then you've got the question of how much your room needs room correction.

It's a mixed bag.

My Tannoy front speakers go down to 33hz and crossover in AV at 40hz but still the XLR stereo SACD's have a lot less bass and master volume gain. I go +7 on the two subs and I'm in heaven. Clear and precise. Audyssey & direct, LFE + Main, dynamic EQ/volume off.
Edited by dahlgren - 1/26/13 at 8:53am
post #2188 of 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac_hs10 View Post

I am thinking about getting this set up too. Cats12 and 8801. Please tell us what you think when u get it. What are u replacing?
Will do. It will be replacing an Onkyo 5008 (used purely as a pre-pro).

I chose the Onkyo because it was relatively cheap compared to the mostly ludicrous prices for higher-end Denon, Pioneer etc. in my country. As a pre-pro it was excellent using Audyssey, but mediocre (rather shrill) without. I am currently contemplating how to proceed speaker-wise as (with 9.2/11.2 channels) speakers are the most expensive part of my set-up.
post #2189 of 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

1.  How come?  Why would a "direct" mode boost or add?  To what are you comparing it?

2.  My main processor has no purely analog mode. ;-)

I setup the Blu-Ray input for the Oppo BDP-105 using: HTMI, 7.1 Analog inputs, and XLR Balanced Inputs.
I have tested the HDMI, 7.1 inputs, and the XLR inputs.
They all behave the same in regards to Pure Direct versus Direct. Direct boosts the highs.
Since I cannot A/B processors. I compare the Oppo 105 7.1 analogs to HDMI, Balanced, and COAX and easily evaluate the differences.

For Example:

1) 7.1 Analog Inputs from the Oppo BDP-105. When you toggle from Pure to Direct there is a pronounced increase in treble.
I do not have the equipment, but I am certain if it could be easily measured because anyone can here it.
This is an interesting case since this is supposed to be an analog path. So I cannot explain it.
I expect anyone with a good set of speakers should be able to hear this.


It occurs to me that when reviewed processors are measured, for example, for DD performance in Pure Direct mode.
It would be interesting to also measure them in the other modes like Direct, it would be enlightening.
I suspect this is by design. As most consumers are going to like the extra treble and hear more detail.

I expect that some are wondering why this is important.
It is important if:

  • You listen to 2.0 or 5.1 analog inputs and you have FULL range speakers.
  • You do not really need Audyssey, it or equalization becomes necessary (with extra processing) to correct what was made incorrect by default.

Also, The XLR inputs (like the PR-SC5507) are digitized (A to D) in some cases since they are processed.
I suspect they are not as direct a path as the 7.1 in's since they do not sound better and are also a bit brighter in all cases.

I completed the basic Pronto Remote setup and will do some more listening over the next few days.

- Rich
post #2190 of 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by cp1966 View Post

Regarding TiVo;

Are you using HDMI or an optical cable for sound? I wonder if this is a common problem, so far a majority of users love this preamp. That would be sad if you had to return it.

I am extremely impressed with the 7.1 analog inputs. The analog performance is fantastic.
When I evaluate, I begin here because it sets the baseline for the performance.
It's what happens after all the DSP's are done with the signal.

Most sources like my TiVo are HDMI and I will continue to use HDMI.
It is only the Oppo BDP-105 that I connect 7.1, HDMI, COAX, and XLR.
I like to compare them for fun and it helps when beta testing for Oppo.

It could be that the Analog section is so good that it brightens the sources compared to my Onkyo PR-SC5507.
In pure mode, TiVo sounds better.

I have a great room and speakers so I prefer to minimize the processing of the signal.
I have yet to hear music sent though a DSP that retains the imaging and sound stage.
This is not always possible because the speaker size and room. But if it is, I highly recommend it.

It is unfortunate, that I have to engage the tone controls bring down the sibilance.

BTW, this is not a new phenomenon.
The Onkyo and Yamaha products that I have also boost treble when taken out of pure mode.

I suspect that most customers prefer the boost and that is why it is done. (Veil lifted smile.gif).
Perhaps, this is true of Japanese processors and AVR's in general.
Sort of like the old days with East Coast and West Coast sound. wink.gif

- Rich
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