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Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 74

post #2191 of 6305
1/26/13 at 9:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cp1966 View Post

Regarding TiVo;

Are you using HDMI or an optical cable for sound? I wonder if this is a common problem, so far a majority of users love this preamp. That would be sad if you had to return it.

I am extremely impressed with the 7.1 analog inputs. The analog performance is fantastic.
When I evaluate, I begin here because it sets the baseline for the performance.
It's what happens after all the DSP's are done with the signal.

Most sources like my TiVo are HDMI and I will continue to use HDMI.
It is only the Oppo BDP-105 that I connect 7.1, HDMI, COAX, and XLR.
I like to compare them for fun and it helps when beta testing for Oppo.

It could be that the Analog section is so good that it brightens the sources compared to my Onkyo PR-SC5507.
In pure mode, TiVo sounds better.

I have a great room and speakers so I prefer to minimize the processing of the signal.
I have yet to hear music sent though a DSP that retains the imaging and sound stage.
This is not always possible because the speaker size and room. But if it is, I highly recommend it.

It is unfortunate, that I have to engage the tone controls bring down the sibilance.

BTW, this is not a new phenomenon.
The Onkyo and Yamaha products that I have also boost treble when taken out of pure mode.

I suspect that most customers prefer the boost and that is why it is done. (Veil lifted smile.gif).
Perhaps, this is true of Japanese processors and AVR's in general.
Sort of like the old days with East Coast and West Coast sound. wink.gif

- Rich
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post #2192 of 6305
1/26/13 at 9:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoneycreek View Post

I received my AV8801 a week ago. This replaced a Denon 4311CI (used as a pre-amp). the 8801 is connected via XLR's to a Emotiva XPA-5. Other inputs are an Oppo 95 connected via XLR, HDMI for 5.1 and Directv box connected to 8801 via HDMI. The Directv box is also connected to Sony 52XBR LX900 via component for tv use without amp.

Above is connected to mains: PSB T2, Center: PSB Imagine C Center and REL T-9 Sub. Looking to replace rear surrounds

The AV8801 sounds amazing and I am extremely happy about my choice but an issue has surfaced that I did not have when using my Denon 4311CI -

When everything is running and controlled through the 8801 and then I go to shutdown the system and use the tv and the directv box; I get a 4-8 second constant pink flashing on my tv. This is after changing the tv input from HDMI in to component in to feed directly from the directv box - not from the AV8801 Monitor #1 HDMI connection. This happens when the AV8801 is in standby mode. I have set the 8801 to feed Blu Ray instead of last used connect.

The HDMI output from the 8801 to the tv is trying to handshake when the 8801 is in standby mode. The only way to get it to stop is to unplug and re-plug the 8801, obviously remove the monitor #1 output cable or re-boot the directv box.

Please note that I have had the same connections prior to getting the AV8801 and everything worked flawlessly. I already replaced the HDMI cable from the directv to the 8801 and will replace the HDMI cable from the Monitor #1 out on the 8801 to the HDMI 1 input on the tv.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

On a side note: Coming from a Denon, I figured a lot of the setup and individual settings controls would be similar. They are and they aren't. I have much more control over detailed settings via the web control for my Denon than I do for the Marantz. For example: no channel db adjustments in the web controller, no surround field control other than toggling through all of them instead of being able to select. Sure I can go to the on screen GUI to do all of the settings but I'd prefer to do the little tweeks to settings behind the scene not on the main screen. Also, my zones keep turning on when I don't want them on and then I have to manually turn them off. I will have to explore options to settings.

Again, any help on the hdmi issue would be appreciated

Brian

Brain,

Turn your HDMI pass through to OFF in the HDMI setting in the Video settings area of the user menu and this problem should go away.
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post #2193 of 6305
1/26/13 at 9:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

Just ordered a Marantz AV8801 and a region-free Oppo BDP-105, both will be arriving next week. I will use them together with my Seaton CAT12's and a pair of Danley SM60F's. I can't wait. smile.gif

Fantastic combo.

If you are into this sort of thing, you can hook up all the connections: HDMI, 7.1, XLR (Analog), and COAX and compare the sound.
Here is a hint: Not one of them sound the same tongue.gif.

Here are the remote codes you need to switch them on the fly:
INPUT MODE:HDMI 16 01 16
INPUT MODE:DIGITAL 16 01 17
INPUT MODE:ANALOG 16 01 18
7.1 (6.1)CH. Input ON 16 01 12

If you have a Harmony Remote, you should be able to email mail support and get them added pretty quickly.

Perhaps these machines are bit like routers.
You buy chips from vendors. Wire them up. Program the API's, etc.
That could account for similar characteristics I have found among different products.

I have tried an handful of AVR's and Processors and I have not heard one that challenges the 7.1 inputs sound quality.
Instruments are better defined, the soundstage is larger, there is greater detail all without adding harshness.
In fact, all of the treble and detail is there but the instruments sound real.

Many times you listen to a CD and I know what the instrument is.
When I listen to it from the Oppo 7.1 analog outpus, I hear the instrument.
That is the best I can do to put it in words.

Even when digitized the XLR outputs from the Oppo sounds much better than the HDMI input for LPCM.
I'd like to think there is a processor out there that handles HDMI PCM well, but so far, I have not found one.
Encoded formats are fine.

- Rich
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post #2194 of 6305
1/26/13 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Its the Sabre dac's and while the 8801 is no slouch in dac department regardless of source the 105's dacs are implemented very well and still my choice for 2ch(I have a proper setup and room treatments) even though I still at times do use the 8801 as well. I hope this doesn't confuse you further as I'm in audio bliss having both there is a difference and that option to choose is killer.

RichB is right on!

The key is "option to choose is killer"!!!

Between all the sound modes, the various input options, dac choices, and program material etc. I find myself switching between all the choices to find which combination sounds best to me every time I watch/listen to something different.

What I appreciate most about having the 8801 and the 105 is the astounding range of possibilities they offer as long as you understand that there really is more than one right way to skin the sonic cat and you are willing to experiment with the different choices.

Smoke On The Water has never sounded so good!!!

Rock on with your bad self!!!!
Edited by discodol - 1/26/13 at 9:56am
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post #2195 of 6305
1/26/13 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

If you haven't run Audyssey, then did you manually setup the distances and levels for all speakers and subwoofer?

If so, how did you determine your subwoofer distance?

Well, there is always a tape measure tongue.gif
They are all +/- 3 feet. So at worst, I could have a 3.3 millisecond difference in the speed at which the sounds arrive.
No way, anyone could hear that.

However, there are effects that DSP's and processing have on the soundstage that I feel completely dwarf that issue.

I will run Audyssey during the week when the children are at school and I have a shot at creating a quiet environment.

- Rich
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post #2196 of 6305
1/26/13 at 10:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by discodol View Post

RichB is right on!

The key is "option to choose is killer"!!!

Between all the sound modes, the various input options, dac choices, and program material etc. I find myself switching between all the choices to find which combination sounds best to me every time I watch/listen to something different.

What I appreciate most about having the 8801 and the 105 is the astounding range of possibilities they offer as long as you understand that there really is more than one right way to skin the sonic cat and you are willing to experiment with the different choices.

Smoke On The Water has never sounded so good!!!

Rock on with your bad self!!!!

Will do...

The Oppo BDP-105 and Marantz work great together. smile.gif

- Rich
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post #2197 of 6305
1/26/13 at 10:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

Will do. It will be replacing an Onkyo 5008 (used purely as a pre-pro).

I chose the Onkyo because it was relatively cheap compared to the mostly ludicrous prices for higher-end Denon, Pioneer etc. in my country. As a pre-pro it was excellent using Audyssey, but mediocre (rather shrill) without. I am currently contemplating how to proceed speaker-wise as (with 9.2/11.2 channels) speakers are the most expensive part of my set-up.

Please report back.

Without the shrill sound, how would you truly appreciate all that Audyssey has to offer tongue.gif


For fun, what if the Audyssey algorithm works like this:

1) Turn off shrill mode (also know as pure direct mode)
2) Take Measurements
3) Correct to proper frequency, volume, and boundary issues.

Repeat steps 2 and 3 as needed.

- Rich
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post #2198 of 6305
1/26/13 at 10:29am
Dolby Pro-Logic II is broken

I was playing the preview for some of my kids DVDs and noticed it was in Stereo mode.
When I select Pro-Logic, it remains with only two channels on.
However, when I select DTS NEO:X all speakers are used.

This is what PLII does right?
Am I missing something?

- Rich
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post #2199 of 6305
1/26/13 at 10:31am
Enhancement Request:

I saw it mentioned here already, but I really miss the ability to select a default sound mode per signal type per input.
Onkyo's have had this for years.

For example, I would like to always have DD two channel played with PLII from my Blu-ray player.

However, even a global setting for this would be welcome.

- Rich
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post #2200 of 6305
1/26/13 at 10:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Just as with Direct and Pure Direct modes, Audyssey is not applied to the analog EXT IN (7.1 inputs) as the signal is not digitized, rather simply amplified.




Your right. However, Pure Direct EXT sounds better than Direct on 7.1 analog inputs on my system.
Direct is not as well defined and brighter. Since it is not digitized, then I guess that leaves the signal path. ???

I have looked at that chart.
The column header says Sound mode and the rest of the items are Sound modes.
Except for the "7.1 Chan IN" which is an input and I guess a sound mode smile.gif

- Rich
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post #2201 of 6305
1/26/13 at 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post

I don't understand why you would use the analog 7.1 inputs when the 8801 converts the signal to digital for Audyssey, bass management, distance, etc. Are you going analog to take advantage of the Oppo's DACs? I doubt there is audible difference between the DACs in the marantz/oppo PLUS you have to send the signal through the ADC of the Marantz. Its seems like the sound if anything the sound could be worse.

What am I missing? Why use the analog inputs at all?

-Brian

Good question.
I used to feel the same way and I suppose if we could listen to DACs, there would not be much difference.
But there is much more involved than just the DACs so products do sound different.

The good news, is there is no way to do an A/D conversion and process them with the AV8801.
So if you want to use Audyssey, Equalization, tone, or other controls, you are out of luck.

The Oppo BDP-105 is for those who want a pure audio path, have full range speakers, or can use a sub without the Processor.
Directly wired or using and external crossover.

I can easily A/B of the Oppo via HDMI and 7.1 analog and it is immediately apparent which one is superior.
Honestly, I wish it were not the case.

- Rich
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post #2202 of 6305
1/26/13 at 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Dolby Pro-Logic II is broken

I was playing the preview for some of my kids DVDs and noticed it was in Stereo mode.
When I select Pro-Logic, it remains with only two channels on.
However, when I select DTS NEO:X all speakers are used.

This is what PLII does right?
Am I missing something?

- Rich

That isn't the case on my unit.
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post #2203 of 6305
1/26/13 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I setup the Blu-Ray input for the Oppo BDP-105 using: HTMI, 7.1 Analog inputs, and XLR Balanced Inputs.
I have tested the HDMI, 7.1 inputs, and the XLR inputs.
They all behave the same in regards to Pure Direct versus Direct. Direct boosts the highs.
Since I cannot A/B processors. I compare the Oppo 105 7.1 analogs to HDMI, Balanced, and COAX and easily evaluate the differences.

For Example:

1) 7.1 Analog Inputs from the Oppo BDP-105. When you toggle from Pure to Direct there is a pronounced increase in treble.
I do not have the equipment, but I am certain if it could be easily measured because anyone can here it.
This is an interesting case since this is supposed to be an analog path. So I cannot explain it.
I expect anyone with a good set of speakers should be able to hear this.


It occurs to me that when reviewed processors are measured, for example, for DD performance in Pure Direct mode.
It would be interesting to also measure them in the other modes like Direct, it would be enlightening.
I suspect this is by design. As most consumers are going to like the extra treble and hear more detail.

I expect that some are wondering why this is important.
It is important if:

  • You listen to 2.0 or 5.1 analog inputs and you have FULL range speakers.
  • You do not really need Audyssey, it or equalization becomes necessary (with extra processing) to correct what was made incorrect by default.

Also, The XLR inputs (like the PR-SC5507) are digitized (A to D) in some cases since they are processed.
I suspect they are not as direct a path as the 7.1 in's since they do not sound better and are also a bit brighter in all cases.

I completed the basic Pronto Remote setup and will do some more listening over the next few days.

- Rich

Could it be Audyssey on in Direct and not in Pure Direct?
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post #2204 of 6305
1/26/13 at 11:06am
^^^
Nope, I have not yet run Audyssey.

- Rich
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post #2205 of 6305
1/26/13 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

That isn't the case on my unit.

I will do some more testing and see what I can find out.
Perhaps this is a cousin to the problem other folks are having with their surrounds.

- Rich
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post #2206 of 6305
1/26/13 at 11:38am
Rich....the zones turning on are a result of turning the unit on with the standby button....it happened to me at first too...Others have experienced the same thing.....its the way that button works and not sure if it can be fiixed via software.....hopefully it can.

Anyway.... not sure if u turn it on manualyl or with a universal remote....if you turn it on manually....turn the unit on by sellecting an input on the remote ....and then you can turn it off with the standy by button and the zones will stay off....some folks are doing it like that as i am. There are other ways to accomplish this depending on what universal remote you have. I have a harmony 900 and not sure if i can do it with it....
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post #2207 of 6305
1/26/13 at 11:39am
On the AVP I can push the Enter-center button on Denon remote to adjust individual speaker volume, and if needed change the processing with the STD on the remote screen. Is this possible from the 8801 remote so you don't have to go into the setup and deep into menus?
Edited by dahlgren - 1/26/13 at 12:01pm
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post #2208 of 6305
1/26/13 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosano View Post

Rich....the zones turning on are a result of turning the unit on with the standby button....it happened to me at first too...Others have experienced the same thing.....its the way that button works and not sure if it can be fiixed via software.....hopefully it can.

Anyway.... not sure if u turn it on manualyl or with a universal remote....if you turn it on manually....turn the unit on by sellecting an input on the remote ....and then you can turn it off with the standy by button and the zones will stay off....some folks are doing it like that as i am. There are other ways to accomplish this depending on what universal remote you have. I have a harmony 900 and not sure if i can do it with it....

I have not had the problem.
I saw David's advice about just using the Input Selection to power on.
It simplifies the process and avoids the issue.

I have found some inconsistency in the Input Pandora.
Sometimes from a cold start, it gets right into Pandora and starts playing the last stations. Great!.

When the unit is on and I switch to the Pandora Input using the remote code, it stays on the Pandora/Network Screen.
Not a big deal.

Pandora sounds very good, the best I have heard from a Preamp/Receiver so far.
There is actually bass. smile.gif

It is difficult to compare since you can never really get the same song.
Still, I think the Oppo sounds better but mostly because of the 7.1 analog outs.

- Rich
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post #2209 of 6305
1/26/13 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Well, there is always a tape measure tongue.gif
They are all +/- 3 feet. So at worst, I could have a 3.3 millisecond difference in the speed at which the sounds arrive.
No way, anyone could hear that.
3.3 ms is quite audible. Play your headphones and add 3 ms delay to one ch (or 1 ms!). Or even the main L/R speakers.

But the issue for bass is different. How well the subwoofer splices with the mains can be affected by time offsets, and by factors like EQ inside the woofer amp. It is not unusual for Audyssey to report a subwoofer as being some 10' further away that the tape measure says, due to lag in the signal path.
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post #2210 of 6305
1/26/13 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I will do some more testing and see what I can find out.
Perhaps this is a cousin to the problem other folks are having with their surrounds.

- Rich

Rich, hold the "movie" button on the remote to bring up the audio selection screen and choose PLII (even if it's already chosen) and see if it fixes your issue.
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post #2211 of 6305
1/26/13 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Rich, hold the "movie" button on the remote to bring up the audio selection screen and choose PLII (even if it's already chosen) and see if it fixes your issue.

Thank you for posting this tip! It works with my Denon 4520 too.
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post #2212 of 6305
1/26/13 at 1:34pm
No problem. Maybe the software isn't remembering the last chosen sound format or something. I'll play around with my sample and see if I can see what triggers it.
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post #2213 of 6305
1/26/13 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Rich, hold the "movie" button on the remote to bring up the audio selection screen and choose PLII (even if it's already chosen) and see if it fixes your issue.

Good suggestion.

That worked. The problem was I have the Video Conversion set off.

That means if you turn off the video processor PLII does not work.
To get it to work, you have to turn the video conversion on then use the popup menu to set PLII for that format.

It seems to remember the setting because after turning video conversion back off, it now works.
Since it remembers it anyway, why isn't there a menu to explicitly set the desired sound format? Weird?

So we have a strange side effect.

Marantz: Please add a menu to set sound format preferences: DD 2.0 -> DPLII.

- Rich
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post #2214 of 6305
1/26/13 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

3.3 ms is quite audible. Play your headphones and add 3 ms delay to one ch (or 1 ms!). Or even the main L/R speakers.

But the issue for bass is different. How well the subwoofer splices with the mains can be affected by time offsets, and by factors like EQ inside the woofer amp. It is not unusual for Audyssey to report a subwoofer as being some 10' further away that the tape measure says, due to lag in the signal path.

Ok, in when each ear is isolated.

However, the cure is not always better than the problem wink.gif

- Rich
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post #2215 of 6305
1/26/13 at 2:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

On the AVP I can push the Enter-center button on Denon remote to adjust individual speaker volume, and if needed change the processing with the STD on the remote screen. Is this possible from the 8801 remote so you don't have to go into the setup and deep into menus?

As of the 2012 models, the Denon and Marantz stock remotes no longer have this capability.
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post #2216 of 6305
1/26/13 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

As of the 2012 models, the Denon and Marantz stock remotes no longer have this capability.

It would be nice to have the hex code for this command to program a URC remote with it.
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post #2217 of 6305
1/26/13 at 2:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Good suggestion.

That worked. The problem was I have the Video Conversion set off.

That means if you turn off the video processor PLII does not work.
To get it to work, you have to turn the video conversion on then use the popup menu to set PLII for that format.

It seems to remember the setting because after turning video conversion back off, it now works.
Since it remembers it anyway, why isn't there a menu to explicitly set the desired sound format? Weird?

So we have a strange side effect.

Marantz: Please add a menu to set sound format preferences: DD 2.0 -> DPLII.

- Rich

Glad it worked Rich. Out of curiosity, why do you have video conversion turned off?
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post #2218 of 6305
1/26/13 at 2:40pm
I'm going through the manual, and preparing for when the unit arrives.

Setting Crossover frequencies.
Since my setup isn't in a perfect room, today I tend to get more bass on the right side, since my sub is there.
And since the 8801 has better crossover features than the AV8003, I'd try to use the individual setup for this.

So my Surround Back speakers, Paradigm Cinema 330, only goes down to 110Hz.
They are mounted at the ceiling, at an angel toward my ears, about 3 meters (10feet) behind the listening posision.
Should I set the crossover to 120 or 150 Hz?
Today it's at 80, and theres a gap in sound from the back.


In the future I'm planning on upgrading my sub from the XTZ 99W12.16 to a Velodyne SPL-1200 Ultra.
Would I get a more complete bass sound in movies if I took my XTZ and put it against the back wall, behind the listening posision?
The only way this would work in my livingroom, is to use the Velodyne wireless transmitter, is that an good solution?
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post #2219 of 6305
1/26/13 at 2:44pm
You should let the 8801 set the speaker crossovers based on how they react in your home theater. Review the Audyssey 101/FAQ Guide linked in my sig for more info.
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post #2220 of 6305
1/26/13 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post


I setup the Blu-Ray input for the Oppo BDP-105 using: HTMI, 7.1 Analog inputs, and XLR Balanced Inputs.
I have tested the HDMI, 7.1 inputs, and the XLR inputs.
They all behave the same in regards to Pure Direct versus Direct. Direct boosts the highs.
Since I cannot A/B processors. I compare the Oppo 105 7.1 analogs to HDMI, Balanced, and COAX and easily evaluate the differences.

For Example:

1) 7.1 Analog Inputs from the Oppo BDP-105. When you toggle from Pure to Direct there is a pronounced increase in treble.
I do not have the equipment, but I am certain if it could be easily measured because anyone can here it.
This is an interesting case since this is supposed to be an analog path. So I cannot explain it.

Curious.  I will have to try it.

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