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Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 75

post #2221 of 11290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Curious.  I will have to try it.

Great!
Please post your findings.
Do you have the capability of measuring the DD performance in Pure Direct, Direct, standard modes to see how they differ?

I am watching the Ella Enchanted with my kids now and I have to say, it is vey bright.
Noticeably brighter than my Onkyo PR-5507.

- Rich
post #2222 of 11290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

It would be nice to have the hex code for this command to program a URC remote with it.

Are there codes in the spreadsheet I posted, If so, I can use pronto edit to get any code from the RC values.

- Rich
post #2223 of 11290
If the On/Standby button is turning on another zone, the zone select button can be used to set the remote to MAIN in the remote display. The standby button will then put the MAIN zone into standby. At least it works for me... It looks like the zone select button (uppermost left button) switches not only the AV but also the remote to that zone.
post #2224 of 11290
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

As of the 2012 models, the Denon and Marantz stock remotes no longer have this capability.

That is a real bummer. It is an easy on-screen user friendly instant change while in the middle of listening or watching. Why would D&M take this awesome remote feature away, it makes no sense. I hope the powers that be are listening.
post #2225 of 11290
I can't specify an input to turn on a device connected to a trigger - the triggered device comes on no matter which input device I turn on. Was hoping to use a trigger for my legacy Yamaha T-85 tuner. Has anyone tryed this? May have to exchange my AV for another one....

-Bob
post #2226 of 11290
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

The output goes to a Lumagen Mini that has a 125 Point Calibration for my display.
I am trying to minimize the number of times the video is processed.

- Rich

Ahh..good choice! Lumagen makes great products.
post #2227 of 11290
Thanks for the help. I changed the setting to off and I'm sure that should fix it. I now remember that I had that setting off in the Denon as well so I didn't have the issue.

Brian
post #2228 of 11290
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post


Great!
Please post your findings.
Do you have the capability of measuring the DD performance in Pure Direct, Direct, standard modes to see how they differ?

I am watching the Ella Enchanted with my kids now and I have to say, it is vey bright.
Noticeably brighter than my Onkyo PR-5507.

- Rich

I have some tools but, probably, I will need the motivation of hearing a significant difference between direct and pure direct to goad me into bothering.

post #2229 of 11290
Hello All

I got my 8801 and started set up this evening.

I have some issues with Audyssey Set up.

Issue #1 - I use a Seaton Submersive HP as Sub (Currently only one, but getting another soon) and it initially said was loud and to level match. Even after turning it down to zero, was running hot. I asked to skip this test. I then manually set the level to -12DB and my Radioshack was still showing 84DB.

Issue #2 - I ran Audyssey again and this time skipped error with SW. It ran whole test (just did one position) and then asked to calculate. When I checked the results it made my left and right as Large and cross over for rest set at 60HZ. My L/R is Klipsch Ref RF-7II. I would like that to be set as Small and then set the cross over to 80HZ. Can I make these changes after the Audyssey is run?

I appreciate any help in this area.
Edited by rramacha - 1/26/13 at 9:14pm
post #2230 of 11290
I have two "classic" SubMersives (HP not an option with 230V yet) and mine are turned down low as well for Audyssey. The input stage of the power amp inside the SubMersives seems to be rather sensitive. Corner placement (usually a very bad position for a sub) wouldn't help either of course. Mine are placed at the best spot available, luckily convenient as well.

As was mentioned earlier, weeks ago, in this topic: the Marantz, like most AV-amps, decides to mark the speaker as large if the -3dB point Audyssey produces is sufficiently low. Don't worry as you can adjust it later. If they had set it to small many other owners would complain about that. Theoretically all speakers could be used to aid in reproducing low frequencies, but in practice most speakers are far less capable than subs for this purpose.
post #2231 of 11290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

I have two "classic" SubMersives (HP not an option with 230V yet) and mine are turned down low as well for Audyssey. The input stage of the power amp inside the SubMersives seems to be rather sensitive. Corner placement (usually a very bad position for a sub) wouldn't help either of course. Mine are placed at the best spot available, luckily convenient as well.

As was mentioned earlier, weeks ago, in this topic: the Marantz, like most AV-amps, decides to mark the speaker as large if the -3dB point Audyssey produces is sufficiently low. Don't worry as you can adjust it later. If they had set it to small many other owners would complain about that. Theoretically all speakers could be used to aid in reproducing low frequencies, but in practice most speakers are far less capable than subs for this purpose.

Thanks for your input.

If I understand you correctly, I can change the speaker size and Cross Over after Audyssey completes measurements. My L/R can do down to 30HZ, but prefer Submersive do this.

Mine placement is Left Center SW and Right. I am planning to get XL once released (hopefully by summer) and place it behind.

Cheers
post #2232 of 11290
Quote:
Originally Posted by rramacha View Post

Hello All

I got my 8801 and started set up this evening.

I have some issues with Audyssey Set up.

Issue #1 - I use a Seaton Submersive HP as Sub (Currently only one, but getting another soon) and it initially said was loud and to level match. Even after turning it down to zero, was running hot. I asked to skip this test. I then manually set the level to -12DB and my Radioshack was still showing 84DB.

Issue #2 - I ran Audyssey again and this time skipped error with SW. It ran whole test (just did one position) and then asked to calculate. When I checked the results it made my left and right as Large and cross over for rest set at 60HZ. My L/R is Klipsch Ref RF-7II. I would like that to be set as Small and then set the cross over to 80HZ. Can I make these changes after the Audyssey is run?

I appreciate any help in this area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rramacha View Post

New Firmware Released.smile.gif
You probably got the initial update that came out. I have no such indications, & I manually checked five times already.
post #2233 of 11290
Hi,

Besides the 8801's DTS Neo X 9/11 processing bug when playing Dolby THD or DTS MA tracks, there is also another bug (Audyssey Pro configuration in my case):

- the Internet menu interface (of the 8801) only displays 1 single subwoofer (SW), even though the installation has 2 and when these 2 subs have their own individual distances and trims available through the internal menu.

Now the 4520 I am coming from, also had a bug displaying correctly a 2 subs configuration in the Internet interface, but the 8801 goes even further in this bugging... as it only "sees" 1 sub when there are actually 2...

So let's hope that this will be also addressed in the new FW...

Hugo
post #2234 of 11290
Hi again,

For a little feed-back of some tests I made yesterday with the 8801. So having an 11.2 installation (with DSX type anglings for speakers), I though listened to Jean-Michel Jarre's "Aero" DVD (PAL version), processed in DTS Neo X 11.

This is my favorite "music" DVD ("eyes" hidden... wink.gif) to test a configuration, as it has a very spatial encoding with deep low frequencies present at times.

Now its' DTS 5.1 track combined with 8801's DTS Neo X 11 processing, produced the most spectacular execution that I have listened to, so far. In fact the envelopment that one can usually get with an 11.x installation, in this case it was subjectively almost "tactile" and not only in the sub region... a really great moment of exceptional audio...

Have a nice Sunday,

Hugo
post #2235 of 11290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

Hi,

Besides the 8801's DTS Neo X 9/11 processing bug when playing Dolby THD or DTS MA tracks, there is also another bug (Audyssey Pro configuration in my case):

- the Internet menu interface (of the 8801) only displays 1 single subwoofer (SW), even though the installation has 2 and when these 2 subs have their own individual distances and trims available through the internal menu.

Now the 4520 I am coming from, also had a bug displaying correctly a 2 subs configuration in the Internet interface, but the 8801 goes even further in this bugging... as it only "sees" 1 sub when there are actually 2...

So let's hope that this will be also addressed in the new FW...

Hugo

Doesn't the Manual state that you have to set the distance and level manually when running two subs, since the Audyssey will see them as one?

See a note on the middle of the page 36 of the manual
post #2236 of 11290
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The note below simply means that the volume of the subwoofers is controlled by a single setting (Subwoofer Level) that controls the combined volume of both subwoofers.



What is the difference of changing sub woofer levels in the audio menu? I have two subs hooked up and it lets me change two different subwoofer volumes. Should I be trimming the volume else where?
post #2237 of 11290
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Well, there is always a tape measure tongue.gif
They are all +/- 3 feet. So at worst, I could have a 3.3 millisecond difference in the speed at which the sounds arrive.
No way, anyone could hear that.

However, there are effects that DSP's and processing have on the soundstage that I feel completely dwarf that issue.

I will run Audyssey during the week when the children are at school and I have a shot at creating a quiet environment.

- Rich

No...at worst you have 6.6 millisecond difference between the nearest one and the furthest one that's not set up properly.

The simblance you referred to also bugged me. In time, it goes away.

I think you'll find running Audyssey to get your levels and distance will make a huge difference. Even if the room isn't perfectly quiet, you can run Audyssey and then turn off Audyssey. At least that way you should have your distances and levels closer to being correct.
post #2238 of 11290
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

No...at worst you have 6.6 millisecond difference between the nearest one and the furthest one that's not set up properly.

The simblance you referred to also bugged me. In time, it goes away.

I think you'll find running Audyssey to get your levels and distance will make a huge difference. Even if the room isn't perfectly quiet, you can run Audyssey and then turn off Audyssey. At least that way you should have your distances and levels closer to being correct.

Sibilance is a funny thing, its natural for some voices to have sibilance in the real world and if one listens for it then it will be greatly accentuated. Its a psycho-acoustic effect. Some speakers do emphasize sibilance. I personally doubt that modern electronics increase it.
post #2239 of 11290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Sibilance is a funny thing, its natural for some voices to have sibilance in the real world and if one listens for it then it will be greatly accentuated. Its a psycho-acoustic effect. Some speakers do emphasize sibilance. I personally doubt that modern electronics increase it.

For the purposes of this discussion, we're speaking of the effect that the preamp imparts on the sound. It was very annoying at first. I doubt that I've only gotten use to it as it's very obvious. Then over time, it's gone away.
post #2240 of 11290
Hi,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel 48 View Post

What is the difference of changing sub woofer levels in the audio menu? I have two subs hooked up and it lets me change two different subwoofer volumes. Should I be trimming the volume else where?

The 8801 incorporates the Audyssey Sub EQ HT process, so at the very first MultEQ XT32's measure, each sub is indiviadally pinged to establish its' own individual distance and trim values.

But after this initial measure, they are considered as one single source, and accordingly pinged as a whole by MultEQ XT32.

Now even if - after the first measure - the subs are considered as one by Audyssey, in the internal (Audio or Speakers) menu, it is possible to modify the specific individual distance and trim values of each sub..

All this in contrary to the Internet Menu where either in Audio or Speakers Menu, only 1 sub is shown even if 2 are actually used (and displayed as such in the internal menu), though the bug I reported... which is similar to a bug also existing in the 4520's Internet sub menu interface.

Hugo
post #2241 of 11290
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

For the purposes of this discussion, we're speaking of the effect that the preamp imparts on the sound. It was very annoying at first. I doubt that I've only gotten use to it as it's very obvious. Then over time, it's gone away.
Hmm... I'm just switching from an Onkyo 5008 because of its shrillness in Pure mode. With all the impressions and reviews sofar none mentioned sibilance about the Marantz 8801. Hopefully it truly will dissappear over time because my ears won't adjust for sure.
post #2242 of 11290
Quote:
Originally Posted by rramacha View Post

Hello All

I got my 8801 and started set up this evening.

I have some issues with Audyssey Set up.

Issue #1 - I use a Seaton Submersive HP as Sub (Currently only one, but getting another soon) and it initially said was loud and to level match. Even after turning it down to zero, was running hot. I asked to skip this test. I then manually set the level to -12DB and my Radioshack was still showing 84DB.

Issue #2 - I ran Audyssey again and this time skipped error with SW. It ran whole test (just did one position) and then asked to calculate. When I checked the results it made my left and right as Large and cross over for rest set at 60HZ. My L/R is Klipsch Ref RF-7II. I would like that to be set as Small and then set the cross over to 80HZ. Can I make these changes after the Audyssey is run?

I appreciate any help in this area.

I was playing with the system for a quite a while. System was able to see my server where all the music resides and was able to play Apple Lossless Files. I was also able to use the remote app on IPad and see Albums etc without using a screen. Now my third question is, is there a reason I should even keep my Squeezebox touch.

I am also planning to sell my old Apple TV. This one does Airplay and that is all I need for that. For critical viewing I have Oppo BDP-105.

Cheers
post #2243 of 11290
These are the offending situations I am now aware of (see below). Thanks RichB for pointing them out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

For Example:

1) 7.1 Analog Inputs from the Oppo BDP-105. When you toggle from Pure to Direct there is a pronounced increase in treble.
I do not have the equipment, but I am certain if it could be easily measured because anyone can here it.
This is an interesting case since this is supposed to be an analog path. So I cannot explain it.
I expect anyone with a good set of speakers should be able to hear this.
Quote:
Also, The XLR inputs (like the PR-SC5507) are digitized (A to D) in some cases since they are processed.
I suspect they are not as direct a path as the 7.1 in's since they do not sound better and are also a bit brighter in all cases.

Fortunately the 7.1 in Pure Direct mode seems to be fine and fortunately that I also ordered an excellent source (Oppo BDP-105), otherwise I would cancel my order first thing tomorrow.

RichB, I re-read most of your posts, with Audyssey active is the treble boost apparent? If so, can it be easily compensated without further SQ loss? Do I need Audyssey Pro to adjust the curve? It appears that some physical (electronical) cause is behind it (which would mean further loss to compensate). Either deliberate or caused by bad design. Jitter from the video board or DSP board for instance, like was present in the flagship Anthem and to some extend in the flagship Denon (both discovered by Hi-Fi News magazine iirc). My guess in that case is the DSP board, since the 7.1 Pure Direct mode will probably switch off that one (not sure if the video board is active at that time).
post #2244 of 11290
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

It's done individually in the setup menu to calibrate each sub at the sweet spot (mic #1); however, after running Audyssey and both are calibrated together, further ,adjustment should be made using the "Subwoofer Level" setting.

I believe this was already answered but just to be sure, can you adjust the "Subwoofer Level" from the remote on-screen, or do you have to dive deep in the setup menu?
post #2245 of 11290
Individual speaker/sub volume level capability was removed from the 2012 D&M model remotes so you'll have to use the "Subwoofer Level" setting in the menu to adjust either sub volume. You may be able to use a Harmony discrete code for an older model, although cannot confirm.
post #2246 of 11290
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

For the purposes of this discussion, we're speaking of the effect that the preamp imparts on the sound. It was very annoying at first. I doubt that I've only gotten use to it as it's very obvious. Then over time, it's gone away.

I'd like to add two things , yes the annoying siblance or forwardness( indeed no getting use to that), will go away its called burn in by some:rolleyes: and placebo by others:D but it will settle in. in fact with the right cabling in place( I use no stock cords) sounds very analog in tonality and this is from bitstreaming via hdmi vs the analog outs from my 105 . One can use the (HT) in surround parameters setting in Audio section to tame the high frequencies to perfection of some source material when needed while using Audyssey to good effect!smile.gif
post #2247 of 11290
audiofan1, unfortunately it is my experience that (in case of placebo, and not equipment "burn in") I will notice shortcomings like these even after 2 years or more. And I am not willing to use cabling to mask any defect if that is what you were refering to. Sufficiently good cabling is fine, of course. wink.gif
post #2248 of 11290
I also prefer 7.1 analog from my oppo bdp95 versus hdmi audio for sacd and bluray concerts. I want to keep watching movies via hdmi audio/video, but also would prefer to use 7.1 audio when watching bluray concerts. How do I do this and keep all switching within the 8801? If I disable hdmi audio out in the oppo, I will not have audio via hdmi for movies, and it doesn't seem like I can disable the oppos hdmi2 output independent of hdmi1. Is there a way to do this within the 8801?
post #2249 of 11290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

These are the offending situations I am now aware of (see below). Thanks RichB for pointing them out.

Fortunately the 7.1 in Pure Direct mode seems to be fine and fortunately that I also ordered an excellent source (Oppo BDP-105), otherwise I would cancel my order first thing tomorrow.

RichB, I re-read most of your posts, with Audyssey active is the treble boost apparent? If so, can it be easily compensated without further SQ loss? Do I need Audyssey Pro to adjust the curve? It appears that some physical (electronical) cause is behind it (which would mean further loss to compensate). Either deliberate or caused by bad design. Jitter from the video board or DSP board for instance, like was present in the flagship Anthem and to some extend in the flagship Denon (both discovered by Hi-Fi News magazine iirc). My guess in that case is the DSP board, since the 7.1 Pure Direct mode will probably switch off that one (not sure if the video board is active at that time).

I will not be able to run Audyssey until next week.
I was under the impression that jitter reduces detail and resolution of the sound.

I can make observations but I have no idea why the processor behaves this way.

The treble boost is most obvious on DD from my TiVo.
Merely, engage the equalizer (all values set to flat) reduces it.
The tone controls work as well and resolution is not an issue with this type of source.

- Rich
post #2250 of 11290
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkad View Post

I also prefer 7.1 analog from my oppo bdp95 versus hdmi audio for sacd and bluray concerts. I want to keep watching movies via hdmi audio/video, but also would prefer to use 7.1 audio when watching bluray concerts. How do I do this and keep all switching within the 8801? If I disable hdmi audio out in the oppo, I will not have audio via hdmi for movies, and it doesn't seem like I can disable the oppos hdmi2 output independent of hdmi1. Is there a way to do this within the 8801?
Can't you use the Oppo as two seperate sources? Meaning: use both hdmi connections each with its own audio preference.
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