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Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 77

post #2281 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

No you get a picture in Pure Direct mode for any HDMI source regardless of where the sound originates: HDMI, 7.1, or Analog.

The 8801 turns of video circuts but that is overrated.
For example, the instant you go into pure direct mode the sound characteristic changes (for the better IMHO).

With my excisting AV8003 I use Pure Direct for BD playback since I have the Oppo BDP-93, and route the video straight to the screen.
Since the AV8003 can't put on Audyssey to DTS MA and Dolby True HD, when in auto mode it's almost as a direct feature.

And there is a signifigent upgrade in sound when turning on the Source Direct, which keeps the video circuts on.
But then turning on Pure Direct which then only cuts the video circuts, it's actually a huch upgrade in sound.
So for me turning them of does a hugh thing.

Marantz may have improved the the non-interference bethween the video and audio part of it. And that might be a great thing.
Will try this before doing the Audyssey. Got the word I'm getting my AV8801 at the end of this week
post #2282 of 11289
Don't forget that the av8003 (and 8801) can apply Audyssey to LPCM, which you'd be using anyhow if you're going to watch the BD extras which include secondary audio. Most modern BD players provide LPCM which has the same resolution as bitstreamed lossless HD audio.
post #2283 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

RichB - so all of those changes you are hearing are when you fiddle with the settings while in PURE mode only? Do they have any effect while in a "normal" listening mode, like just watching a Blu Ray movie through HDMI with Audyssey engaged?

I just ran Audyssey and all mode analog HDMI, Audyssey on or off are affected.

Turning off Video Conversion changes the sound of the unit.

The good news is that most users with leave the default video settings.
So there will be no problem.

- Rich
post #2284 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

I've not noticed anything like this at all...

If you are using the Video Processor, I do not think there is a problem.
However, if you want to test this:


Set the processor to an HDMI input in any mode Except Pure Direct.
Select the Video tab.
Leave this page Open.
Play music try any modes you like and any inputs include the 7.1 analog.
Turn Lip Sync Off (although this also has an effect).
Turn Video Conversion ON.
Turn the i/p Conversion ON.
As you are listen, just change the Video Conversion OFF and ON.
Rinse a repeat.

Here is what it looks like:



If you cannot hear any difference, then great.
If you intend to use Video Processing great.
If you have a video processor and did not want extra processing, not so great.

- Rich
post #2285 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

WIth my older Denon AVP-A1, Pure Direct turns of the video circuitry, as it does with the 8801, and bypasses any processing of the audio, including Audyssey and I think the manual EQ. But using room correction, when properly done, is much better IMO than Pure Direct.

IMO Audsyssey is a choice that is specific to each situation.
I have tried it many many times. The XT32 is much better.
I also like the Marantz FLAT option.

But everytime I listen closely, instruments like vioilins that should be fluttering aren't.
If you came my house, I could demonstate the differnce. You may still have the same preference.
To each, his or her own. I am not an evangalist.
You like it, rock on.

- Rich
post #2286 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

It is still very much possible that this is all caused by some software paths where conditions are not properly checked or not enough (or the wrong) internal parameters are updated. Behavior could get more and more messy if you let the program running the 8801 take several wrong turns.

The 7.1 connection might not be hard-wired with relays or the relays (erroneously) not always activated to account for Pure Direct mode to be influenced by other circuitry.

See this procedure:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1431914/marantz-av8801-preamp-processor-official-owners-thread/2280#post_22891779

There is overwhelming evidence, that the path might be direct by NOT isolated.

It's like a airline flight.
The difference between Direct and Non-Stop can be huge smile.gif

- Rich
post #2287 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

IMO Audsyssey is a choice that is specific to each situation.
I have tried it many many times. The XT32 is much better.
I also like the Marantz FLAT option.

But everytime I listen closely, instruments like vioilins that should be fluttering aren't.
If you came my house, I could demonstate the differnce. You may still have the same preference.
To each, his or her own. I am not an evangalist.
You like it, rock on.

- Rich

In my case Audyssey seems to make movies and music flat.
post #2288 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

Rightfully so. I gave the go ahead earlier today on my order. This was based on what was known then and on my shop keepers assurance that Marantz is still very much commited to its customers, also behind the scenes.

My main positive thought currently is that default settings seem to lead to (expected) great performance. My doubts, that Marantz can (and will) fix this effectively and sufficiently by a firmware update or (heaven forbid) a hardware modification.

B.t.w., it is still not known how many units are affected.

I have a difficult time quantifying the sound of the 8801.
Even with my prefered settings, this is very forward and aggresive sound.

There may be a firwmare fix. I have yet to call Marantz.

When I first powered it on in default mode, I thought it was extremely detailed.
My reaction was very positive.

Then I read JimP's post about the ability to shut off the video processing and that sounded great since I have a Lumagen Radiance down-stream.

I thought nothing of it, but as I listened to it, I felt it was bright and some of the bass was missing.

That is why I decided to see if I had messed up some setting somewhere.

The sky is not falling, but something is not right for those who want to turn off video processing.
Whatever is wrong, is fundamental and affects the sound of ALL modes.

- Rich
post #2289 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post


I think we need to get some more consensus if its a systemic or isolated issue.

Initially, my Neo:X issue was only reported by me...then Marantz confirmed it, and I think mookieb also then discovered it.

RichB - have you performed a processor reset, and have you contacted Marantz to see what they say? (may not be much right now if they didn't get their demo unit in...)

The rest of us, let's try making the changes RichB is doing and report if we hear any changes...I haven't, but honestly haven't played with them much...

I do not believe this something particular to my unit.
If you want to hear for yourself, check out this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1431914/marantz-av8801-preamp-processor-official-owners-thread/2280#post_22891779

I have not done a processor reset, how is that done?
I guess I will lose my Audyssey settings, but that is OK as it is not my favorite mode.

- Rich
post #2290 of 11289
Rich

After running Audyssey, what did you think of the surround field?
post #2291 of 11289
Got my 8801 up and running. Wonderful setup with the GUI, it was almost flawless.

Running Audessy, as in th epast it measured the subwoofer distance as 26 feet, almost twice its actual distance. But I was able to correct that. It also changed the volume with a 2 db difference between my main L and R speakers. Weird.....

One minor issue, and it may be the remote, but i have a Harmony One, and everything works except it does not put the correct input on the 8801 to HDMI input 1, the DirecTv HD DVR that I have. The 8801 turns on, but it goes to the last input chosen. It does not do this if I select one of the other HDMI inputs, just HDMI input #1.

I am going to try posting this on the Harmony One page as well.
post #2292 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Is that pre or post 3D upgrade? Sorry if I didn't have that right, but when I have the AVP (pre-upgrade), Pure Direct did shutdown the video for me - I recall the point being made that but shutting down the video circuitry, it was the best possible scenario to reduce the chance of "interference" with the audio signal.

Direct mode I recall as being different, and there I could set Audyssey, video on, etc.. But I shall defer to you as you still own the AVP, and its been a few years for me.

Both but they did change the video options after the 3d update, its not a big deal and not important what the avp does but for the 4520/8801 we should keep in mind that in 'd&m' style direct/pure-direct are software defined and they might be differently implemented or even have bugs in that part unlike maybe in the old days its not like the direct mode is a hardware switch that we are 100% sure what it does.

Daniel.
post #2293 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by cp1966 View Post

Running Audessy, as in th epast it measured the subwoofer distance as 26 feet, almost twice its actual distance. But I was able to correct that. It also changed the volume with a 2 db difference between my main L and R speakers. Weird.....
Audyssey usually knows best, so I would leave those settings or repeat the measurements. The subwoofer will nearly always have a (distance) offset to compensate for processing delays (and such) inside the sub.

With speakers, especially fronts, I always try to place them and myself in such a way that the sweetspot (where you sit) is at equal distance to both the L and R speaker. If your speakers are both sensibly placed (not one close to a wall and the other far away from one f.i.) the level (and distance) settings Audyssey comes up with should be about identical. You can verify what goes on by listening to a mono recording (or any recording where a sound or singer is coming from the exact middle) in Pure Direct mode. You should hear the sound or singer from the exact middle. If not, Audyssey (when enabled) will adjust levels and distances to compensate, which is only natural.
post #2294 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I do not believe this something particular to my unit.
If you want to hear for yourself, check out this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1431914/marantz-av8801-preamp-processor-official-owners-thread/2280#post_22891779

I have not done a processor reset, how is that done?
I guess I will lose my Audyssey settings, but that is OK as it is not my favorite mode.

- Rich

Sorry Rich, I am extremely picky and have a very revealing system, and I tried several different sources and no combination of lip sync, video conversation, or scaler on or off exhibits a scintilla of difference in the sound quality. Vocals, cymbals, kick drums, bass, soundtrack LFE all sound identical. I spoke with marantz and they have not heard of anything like this, nor is there anything there aware of in the design that would even connect the two.

So perhaps there is something odd with your unit, or there is some other set of criteria that I'm not matching to cause this to happen.

What types of sources and audio formats have you experienced this with?
post #2295 of 11289
Got my 8801 up and running. Wonderful setup with the GUI, it was almost flawless.

Running Audessy, as in th epast it measured the subwoofer distance as 26 feet, almost twice its actual distance. But I was able to correct that. It also changed the volume with a 2 db difference between my main L and R speakers. Weird.....

One minor issue, and it may be the remote, but i have a Harmony One, and everything works except it does not put the correct input on the 8801 to HDMI input 1, the DirecTv HD DVR that I have. The 8801 turns on, but it goes to the last input chosen. It does not do this if I select one of the other HDMI inputs, just HDMI input #1.

I am going to try posting this on the Harmony One page as well.


I can confirm that I have the same issue with the Harmony one remote not going to the right Directtv input on the 8801. If you can get a fix from Logitech or whoever will own them; please post.

The 2 db difference between L and R speakers is not that surprising as it depends upon the 8 positions of the mic when running the setup. Audyssey is pretty accurate. If you have a meter; you can run the manual channel tone to see if all the channels run at 75 db from your sweet spot in the room.
post #2296 of 11289
I cant even get into the web interface anymore. Keeps saying installer locked. Who knows why that happened. I did nothing.
post #2297 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Sorry Rich, I am extremely picky and have a very revealing system, and I tried several different sources and no combination of lip sync, video conversation, or scaler on or off exhibits a scintilla of difference in the sound quality. Vocals, cymbals, kick drums, bass, soundtrack LFE all sound identical. I spoke with marantz and they have not heard of anything like this, nor is there anything there aware of in the design that would even connect the two.

So perhaps there is something odd with your unit, or there is some other set of criteria that I'm not matching to cause this to happen.

What types of sources and audio formats have you experienced this with?

I have been tesing LPCM from SACD and CD's.

My firmware is version: 3325-3792-2484
Is that what you are running?

Something occcured to me.
When I turn off the Video, its almost like distortion.
I have 6 six foot RedMere HDMI's connected to sources and one 15 foot RedMere connected to my display.
Those things power steal. I wonder if there could be something going on there?

After the kids go to bed, I will pull that cable and then all the others leaving only the 7.1 analog and see if that changes things.

- Rich
post #2298 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I have been tesing LPCM from SACD and CD's.

My firmware is version: 3325-3792-2484
Is that what you are running?

Something occcured to me.
When I turn off the Video, its almost like distortion.
I have 6 six foot RedMere HDMI's connected to sources and one 15 foot RedMere connected to my display.
Those things power steal. I wonder if there could be something going on there?

After the kids go to bed, I will pull that cable and then all the others leaving only the 7.1 analog and see if that changes things.

- Rich

Same firmware. I am testng Dolby Digitial from my DirecTV and DTS-MA HD from an Oppo 103. What are your sources.

I'll try LPCM from the Oppo later...

Not sure what your saying hdmi power steal....
post #2299 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Rich

After running Audyssey, what did you think of the surround field?

The MultEQ XT32 is certainly better than the old XT. I really appreciated the FLAT option.
I could not get it to accept the phase was correct for the front two speakers.
My wires are coded and I triple checked them and they were all correct so I continued on.

The sound is much louder than with Audyssey, about 3 DB so that make the comparison difficult.
Since my speakers get down close to 20hz, low low bass moves the floor smile.gif

I can understand why people find Audyssey appealing. It definitely increased the sound stage and the bass.
Mid-range is boosted a bit as well as upper bass.
But there was a loss of fine detail.

A field of mine recommended "Laura Shay's Bittersweet". It is a very nice CD that you buy directly from here.

There is some nice instrumentation and it is not overly compressed.
There are some kick drums and guitars.
With Audyssey on the sound stage is bigger, bass is punchy and the high-end of the guitar attacks.

With the BDP-105 5.1 analog inputs in Pure Direct Ext mode,
her voice moves forward and the decay of the guitar and drums are much more apparent.
Instruments are fuller and better defined and bass is tuneful but reduced a bit.

On some songs, I liked Audyssey and on others I did not.

- Rich
post #2300 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Same firmware. I am testng Dolby Digitial from my DirecTV and DTS-MA HD from an Oppo 103. What are your sources.

I'll try LPCM from the Oppo later...

Not sure what your saying hdmi power steal....

RedMere HDMI cables are directional and they are super thin.
I got them to help cleanup the wires to releave the stress on the HDMI ports.

You can read about them here:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025503&p_id=9427&seq=1&format=2

They have active chips in them and they steal power from the HDMI interface operate.

- Rich
post #2301 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Same firmware. I am testng Dolby Digitial from my DirecTV and DTS-MA HD from an Oppo 103. What are your sources.

I'll try LPCM from the Oppo later...

Not sure what your saying hdmi power steal....

No difference with lpcm... No changes to sound adjusting any of the parameters you noted.
post #2302 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Is that pre or post 3D upgrade? Sorry if I didn't have that right, but when I have the AVP (pre-upgrade), Pure Direct did shutdown the video for me - I recall the point being made that but shutting down the video circuitry, it was the best possible scenario to reduce the chance of "interference" with the audio signal.

Direct mode I recall as being different, and there I could set Audyssey, video on, etc.. But I shall defer to you as you still own the AVP, and its been a few years for me.

Thrang, are you as musically SQ satisfied with the 8801 as with the AVP?
post #2303 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

RedMere HDMI cables are directional and they are super thin.
I got them to help cleanup the wires to releave the stress on the HDMI ports.

You can read about them here:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025503&p_id=9427&seq=1&format=2

They have active chips in them and they steal power from the HDMI interface operate.

- Rich

Rich,

They don't actually steal power...they use the power that's supposed to be there in the HDMI spec.
post #2304 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

Thrang, are you as musically SQ satisfied with the 8801 as with the AVP?

A qualified yes - qualified not because I have reservations about the Marantz, but much time has passed and a lot of room and equipment reconfiguration has occurred. I also pass two channel audio to the 8801 through a minimax DAC plus, so I'm not the ideal person to ask - but even listening to music content from DirecTV ( like Later, with Jools Holland), is a visceral experience, and this far from the best content. Certainly, music blu rays that I've listened to ( Roy Oribson, Peter Gabriel, Porcupine Tree, Talking Heads) have been simply fantastic.

Would I go back to my AVP/POA vs the 8801 and mac amps? No. The 8801 is a winner.
post #2305 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I have a difficult time quantifying the sound of the 8801.
Even with my prefered settings, this is very forward and aggresive sound.

There may be a firwmare fix. I have yet to call Marantz.

When I first powered it on in default mode, I thought it was extremely detailed.
My reaction was very positive.

Then I read JimP's post about the ability to shut off the video processing and that sounded great since I have a Lumagen Radiance down-stream.

I thought nothing of it, but as I listened to it, I felt it was bright and some of the bass was missing.

That is why I decided to see if I had messed up some setting somewhere.

The sky is not falling, but something is not right for those who want to turn off video processing.
Whatever is wrong, is fundamental and affects the sound of ALL modes.

- Rich

I'm sorry. I'm just not buying this. If the "video" settings affected the audio (or digital stream) that would be MAJOR bug. Can anyone replicate this?

-Brian
post #2306 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post

I'm sorry. I'm just not buying this. If the "video" settings affected the audio (or digital stream) that would be MAJOR bug. Can anyone replicate this?

-Brian

I am not selling it.

I put out a procedure. I am very interested if others can replicate it.
Other owner findings make a big difference with how I deal with Marantz and the future of this piece in my system. wink.gif

- Rich
post #2307 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

A qualified yes - qualified not because I have reservations about the Marantz, but much time has passed and a lot of room and equipment reconfiguration has occurred. I also pass two channel audio to the 8801 through a minimax DAC plus, so I'm not the ideal person to ask - but even listening to music content from DirecTV ( like Later, with Jools Holland), is a visceral experience, and this far from the best content. Certainly, music blu rays that I've listened to ( Roy Oribson, Peter Gabriel, Porcupine Tree, Talking Heads) have been simply fantastic.

Would I go back to my AVP/POA vs the 8801 and mac amps? No. The 8801 is a winner.
Nicely said. You've always had great equipment.
post #2308 of 11289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Rich,

They don't actually steal power...they use the power that's supposed to be there in the HDMI spec.

Correct.

I disconnected al the HDMI cables and used the web interface to change the video settings.
There phenomenon still occurs: a bit better bass and more natural sound on the.1 inputs.

Tomorrow, I will contact Marantz and see what they recommend.

There are other unusual features of this preamp.

For example, I find the TiVo sound in Pure Direct to be very bright.
I ran Audyssey and it definitely changed that.
When I downloaded the curves, it is pretty much pushing everything up on my center change except 63 HZ and it is set to small.
It is +.5 at 1K and goes up to +6 DB at 16K.

And yet, it sounds thinner and a brighter in Pure Direct.
How does that make sense?

- Rich
post #2309 of 11289
Is there any way too use the Marantz for a pass thru with my classe omega preamp. I have some cam 400 monoblocks on the fronts and classe omega cd/sacd transport and a classe omega pre amp that i would like to compare for 2 channel, so instead of switching the cables to the classe can i use the Marantz as a pass thru for a dedicated 2 channel set up??
post #2310 of 11289
I just purchased a Rel R528 sub, but I'm a bit confused in regards to the Rel's standard .1 lFE connection and the high-level Neutrik connection. I specifically got the Rel so I could get deep bass from the subwoofer when I listen to stereo music from my Mac Mini music server going into the USB input of my Oppo 105 then fed to the CD input of the Marantz and played back in Pure Direct mode. It seems to be the best of both worlds (pure signal processing plus a crossover into my sub). It sounds great.

But my question is in regards to regular 5.1 out of the Marantz...

Should the Neutrik connection be engaged when running Audyssey on the 8801? I tried this, and it causes Audyssey to set my two front speakers to LARGE. Rel says this is MANDATORY. But when I do this, I get no signal fed to the Sub (other than whatever is mixed in to a dedicated LFE channel, I guess). It sounds somewhat anemic. The only way I can correct this is to change the speakers to SMALL and change the crossover to 80Hz. But am I then undoing the benefit of having the Rel?

I'd appreciate any input you can offer. Thanks.
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