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Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 78

post #2311 of 5778
1/28/13 at 9:23pm
I just purchased a Rel R528 sub, but I'm a bit confused in regards to the Rel's standard .1 lFE connection and the high-level Neutrik connection. I specifically got the Rel so I could get deep bass from the subwoofer when I listen to stereo music from my Mac Mini music server going into the USB input of my Oppo 105 then fed to the CD input of the Marantz and played back in Pure Direct mode. It seems to be the best of both worlds (pure signal processing plus a crossover into my sub). It sounds great.

But my question is in regards to regular 5.1 out of the Marantz...

Should the Neutrik connection be engaged when running Audyssey on the 8801? I tried this, and it causes Audyssey to set my two front speakers to LARGE. Rel says this is MANDATORY. But when I do this, I get no signal fed to the Sub (other than whatever is mixed in to a dedicated LFE channel, I guess). It sounds somewhat anemic. The only way I can correct this is to change the speakers to SMALL and change the crossover to 80Hz. But am I then undoing the benefit of having the Rel?

I'd appreciate any input you can offer. Thanks.
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post #2312 of 5778
1/28/13 at 9:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post

I'm sorry. I'm just not buying this. If the "video" settings affected the audio (or digital stream) that would be MAJOR bug. Can anyone replicate this?

-Brian

I too have tried to duplicate what Rich is experiencing and my AV8801 cannot duplicate that situation. I didn't see how the video settings could affect the audio signal but nonetheless I tried the settings as shown and no way was there any difference at all.

So far I am extremely happy with audio results and would never go back to an AVR.

Brian....another Brian
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post #2313 of 5778
1/28/13 at 9:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

A qualified yes - qualified not because I have reservations about the Marantz, but much time has passed and a lot of room and equipment reconfiguration has occurred. I also pass two channel audio to the 8801 through a minimax DAC plus, so I'm not the ideal person to ask - but even listening to music content from DirecTV ( like Later, with Jools Holland), is a visceral experience, and this far from the best content. Certainly, music blu rays that I've listened to ( Roy Oribson, Peter Gabriel, Porcupine Tree, Talking Heads) have been simply fantastic.

Would I go back to my AVP/POA vs the 8801 and mac amps? No. The 8801 is a winner.

Thank you that's a very honest answer. To tell you the truth I am loving my AVP and my Mac amps. Older amps no XLR so I don't see the supposed benefit of a balanced output. Don't think I could hear the benefit. Zero noise .0005% THD from all Mac's. Would love to be able to have both Hight & Width speakers. It's obveouse that the hole where the Width could be would add an emershion in surround. NEOx is awesome in 9.2. Just listened to King Crimson Islands lossless surround and it blows me away. I guess I am always looking for improvement and when 11.1 mixes come out I don't want to be left behind and have outdated equipment.

But leaving the AVP for 11.2 and having any SQ degradation at all would be a literal crying shame.
Edited by dahlgren - 1/28/13 at 9:55pm
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post #2314 of 5778
1/28/13 at 9:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by leefarber View Post


But my question is in regards to regular 5.1 out of the Marantz...

Should the Neutrik connection be engaged when running Audyssey on the 8801? I tried this, and it causes Audyssey to set my two front speakers to LARGE. Rel says this is MANDATORY. But when I do this, I get no signal fed to the Sub (other than whatever is mixed in to a dedicated LFE channel, I guess). It sounds somewhat anemic. The only way I can correct this is to change the speakers to SMALL and change the crossover to 80Hz. But am I then undoing the benefit of having the Rel?

I'll try to help, but keep in mind I don't have the 8801 processor, nor am I familiar with Audyssey. I have a Rel Storm III sub in a two-channel system with B&W Nautilus 804 (full range) speakers. I use the Neutrik cable leads to connect with the speaker cable spades to the posts on my amplifier. That way, a full-range signal is sent to both my main speakers and the Rel sub. Then it's just a matter of setting the crossover (and loudness) on the sub based on the bass capabilities of the main speakers. In my system, the sub is on, but you can't really tell because it's filling in the very bottom end of the main speakers.
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post #2315 of 5778
1/28/13 at 11:41pm
Thanks! But my question pertains a bit more to 5.1 (or 7.1) home theater systems, rather than stereo. I've fired off an email to Rel. We'll see what they say...
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post #2316 of 5778
1/29/13 at 12:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

Thank you that's a very honest answer. To tell you the truth I am loving my AVP and my Mac amps. Older amps no XLR so I don't see the supposed benefit of a balanced output. Don't think I could hear the benefit. Zero noise .0005% THD from all Mac's. Would love to be able to have both Hight & Width speakers. It's obveouse that the hole where the Width could be would add an emershion in surround. NEOx is awesome in 9.2. Just listened to King Crimson Islands lossless surround and it blows me away. I guess I am always looking for improvement and when 11.1 mixes come out I don't want to be left behind and have outdated equipment.

But leaving the AVP for 11.2 and having any SQ degradation at all would be a literal crying shame.

Nobody is going to give you a clear result or answer. I can see your problem and i would just buy a 8801 now or if your relation with the dealer is good get a demo unit on loan for a few weeks and try yourself. If you need to resell/restock it there will a loss but nothing that you can't fix compared by selling the avp first.

In many ways i think the AVP-3d version is better than the 8801 but it simple won't grow some of the features you want ever.

Daniel.
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post #2317 of 5778
1/29/13 at 12:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Don't forget that the av8003 (and 8801) can apply Audyssey to LPCM, which you'd be using anyhow if you're going to watch the BD extras which include secondary audio. Most modern BD players provide LPCM which has the same resolution as bitstreamed lossless HD audio.


I know, but around the time I got my AV8003, the launch in Europe, there was all this talk about the LFE -10dB something with PCM transfer. Don't remember exactly what it was again. So I ran bitstream instead.
And when I changed to my Vienna, the Audyssey went crazy on polarity so I gave up. But understand now that one can just go further aslong as one know I just can continue.
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post #2318 of 5778
1/29/13 at 12:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Correct.

I disconnected al the HDMI cables and used the web interface to change the video settings.
There phenomenon still occurs: a bit better bass and more natural sound on the.1 inputs.

Tomorrow, I will contact Marantz and see what they recommend.

There are other unusual features of this preamp.

For example, I find the TiVo sound in Pure Direct to be very bright.
I ran Audyssey and it definitely changed that.
When I downloaded the curves, it is pretty much pushing everything up on my center change except 63 HZ and it is set to small.
It is +.5 at 1K and goes up to +6 DB at 16K.

And yet, it sounds thinner and a brighter in Pure Direct.
How does that make sense?

- Rich

Let it burn in , try bitreaming dsd/cd from the hdmi 2 from the Oppo I treid the fantastic for video Redmere for audio and got a more sterile sound vs the more analog sound of the Pangea 4%silver poccoc hdmi cable. You are in for a treat when the bass fill in and shrillness tames as these two very high resolution pieces of gear you have there settle in some. Load up a disc set it and let it burn round the clock Trust me on this!biggrin.gif
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post #2319 of 5778
1/29/13 at 12:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by leefarber View Post

Thanks! But my question pertains a bit more to 5.1 (or 7.1) home theater systems, rather than stereo. I've fired off an email to Rel. We'll see what they say...

Let Audyssey do the work for you which means you will need to do a little re configuring to see if you like the sound , first run an sub cable rca or xlr to the Rel( defeating its crossover of course) from the 8801 after Audyssey has done its thing for multi ch 5.1 or 7.1 try the Dynamic EQ for 2/ch try the mains set to large only if the 8801 has done so and use the LFE+main option( not nessasary for 5.1 or 7.1) and set the crossover 40 or 60 or 80 hz. via Audyssey I hear no double bass( sub dependent I guess) and my DXD12012 disappears and fills the room with lows when I want to add a sub to 2ch playback although my mains are more than capable of this the added extension is great , you may find the 8801 more than capable of handling sources better than you think!
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post #2320 of 5778
1/29/13 at 1:40am
I am happy to see that several users were not able to reproduce Rich's findings. Either some weird, yet to be named phenomenon is going on or it is a defective unit. I would indeed suggest a factory reset to return the Marantz to true default state. My unit will arrive within two days so I can take a look myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Let it burn in , try bitreaming dsd/cd from the hdmi 2 from the Oppo I treid the fantastic for video Redmere for audio and got a more sterile sound vs the more analog sound of the Pangea 4%silver poccoc hdmi cable. You are in for a treat when the bass fill in and shrillness tames as these two very high resolution pieces of gear you have there settle in some. Load up a disc set it and let it burn round the clock Trust me on this!biggrin.gif

Fortunately differences between hdmi cables can readily be tested using the Oppo's two hdmi outs, to waylay any esoteric qualities that might be implied. biggrin.gif

In case of these fancy RedMere hdmi cables I would suggest always to keep a reasonably priced (20$ ?) regular hdmi cable around, just to be sure nothing unexpected is going on.

@Rich, a flat lying center speaker will (in my experience) always sound thin. I seem to remember the exact same thing of boosted highs having the opposite effect (less thin) on my center. I have all equal LCR's (the CAT12's). My Onkyo is out for repairs (hdmi board related) so I cannot check.

My Oppo 105 just arrived, and I'm doing some tidying up. If I leave myself enough time I might hook it up (as a pre-amp) to my powered fronts.
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post #2321 of 5778
1/29/13 at 1:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

I am happy to see that several users were not able to reproduce Rich's findings. Either some weird, yet to be named phenomenon is going on or it is a defective unit. I would indeed suggest a factory reset to return the Marantz to true default state. My unit will arrive within two days so I can take a look myself.
Fortunately differences between hdmi cables can readily be tested using the Oppo's two hdmi outs, to waylay any esoteric qualities that might be implied. biggrin.gif

In case of these fancy RedMere hdmi cables I would suggest always to keep a reasonably priced (20$ ?) regular hdmi cable around, just to be sure nothing unexpected is going on.

@Rich, a flat lying center speaker will (in my experience) always sound thin. I seem to remember the exact same thing of boosted highs having the opposite effect (less thin) on my center. I have all equal LCR's (the CAT12's). My Onkyo is out for repairs (hdmi board related) so I cannot check.

My Oppo 105 just arrived, and I'm doing some tidying up. If I leave myself enough time I might hook it up (as a pre-amp) to my powered fronts.

Careful on running the 105 as a preamp it could tempt one into fewer components on the rack wink.gif
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post #2322 of 5778
1/29/13 at 2:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Correct.

I disconnected al the HDMI cables and used the web interface to change the video settings.
There phenomenon still occurs: a bit better bass and more natural sound on the.1 inputs.

Tomorrow, I will contact Marantz and see what they recommend.

There are other unusual features of this preamp.

For example, I find the TiVo sound in Pure Direct to be very bright.
I ran Audyssey and it definitely changed that.
When I downloaded the curves, it is pretty much pushing everything up on my center change except 63 HZ and it is set to small.
It is +.5 at 1K and goes up to +6 DB at 16K.

And yet, it sounds thinner and a brighter in Pure Direct.
How does that make sense?

- Rich

I do not use analog in so I cannot test that, but I thought you were experiencing this issue with hdmi?

Pure direct will sound comparatively thinner as you are bypassing all of Audyssey's correction capabilities, a healthy portion of which is directed to low frequency response.
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post #2323 of 5778
1/29/13 at 3:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Careful on running the 105 as a preamp it could tempt one into fewer components on the rack wink.gif

Where would our audio/video hobby be if all was reduced to one single box? eek.gif I'm sure that some models would retain a "fiddle" button or two to sattisfy demand.
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post #2324 of 5778
1/29/13 at 3:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

I cant even get into the web interface anymore. Keeps saying installer locked. Who knows why that happened. I did nothing.

This has been known to happen from time to time on D&M models, although don't recall if another 8801 owner has posted of this same experience. It can sometimes occur when pressing the wrong buttons while powering on the unit (eg. attempting to do a microprocessor reset). You may first want to check the Maintenance Mode setting (p. 144 OM) otherwise, you should be able to reset the microprocessor (p. 186 OM) to get it out of Installer mode.


Edited by jdsmoothie - 1/29/13 at 3:41am
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post #2325 of 5778
1/29/13 at 4:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

...snip...

My Oppo 105 just arrived, and I'm doing some tidying up. If I leave myself enough time I might hook it up (as a pre-amp) to my powered fronts.

That's going to be fun!!! smile.gif

I thought about doing the same but concluded that there were features on a preamp that I want to keep. 6 volt triggers, analog inputs and conversion to HDMI, additional HDMI inputs, and as unsure as I was about Audyssey XT32...I wanted to at least have it in place should it work well for me.

What you'll find about the 8801 is that the analog input in pure direct mode is very clean and you should have no problem running analog out from the Oppo.
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post #2326 of 5778
1/29/13 at 4:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post

Is there any way too use the Marantz for a pass thru with my classe omega preamp. I have some cam 400 monoblocks on the fronts and classe omega cd/sacd transport and a classe omega pre amp that i would like to compare for 2 channel, so instead of switching the cables to the classe can i use the Marantz as a pass thru for a dedicated 2 channel set up??

Good question.
Than 7.1 analog inputs and Pure Direct Direct mode should do the trick.

Using the Op BDP-15 7.1 analog outs, the 8801 presents a more aggressive and brighter sound than I am accustomed to from the Onkyo PR-SC5507.

I am not sure which one is more accurate.
So to better understand 8801, I will be connecting the Oppo BDP-105 directly to Amp.

The connection path will be:
BDP-105 XLR-> Sunfire 7400 Amp -> Revel Salons.


- Rich
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post #2327 of 5778
1/29/13 at 4:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

I do not use analog in so I cannot test that, but I thought you were experiencing this issue with hdmi?

Pure direct will sound comparatively thinner as you are bypassing all of Audyssey's correction capabilities, a healthy portion of which is directed to low frequency response.

Sure, but those equalization settings don't add up.
It lowes 63HZ and raises the gain form 1K up and that makes it less bright [scatches head].

I am going to go directly from the Oppo BDP-105 to the AMP and see how that compares to the analog pass-throuhg.

- Rich
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post #2328 of 5778
1/29/13 at 4:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Sure, but those equalization settings don't add up.
It lowes 63HZ and raises the gain form 1K up and that makes it less bright [scatches head].

I am going to go directly from the Oppo BDP-105 to the AMP and see how that compares to the analog pass-throuhg.

- Rich

Try the processor reset if you haven't - so far, no one else can replicate this...perhaps something is wonky with your unit.
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post #2329 of 5778
1/29/13 at 6:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

Nobody is going to give you a clear result or answer. I can see your problem and i would just buy a 8801 now or if your relation with the dealer is good get a demo unit on loan for a few weeks and try yourself. If you need to resell/restock it there will a loss but nothing that you can't fix compared by selling the avp first.

In many ways i think the AVP-3d version is better than the 8801 but it simple won't grow some of the features you want ever.

Daniel.

Thanks Daniel that is exactly what I need to do. I'm going to wait till the first patch comes out and everyone is satisfied with the system. But sure cant hurt to keep talking to folk.
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post #2330 of 5778
1/29/13 at 6:34am
Received my av8001 yesterday. Didn't have a lot of time to play with it, but tried few things. Have peculiar results with Audyssey. Looks like everybody says that it adds bass, but in my case it's the opposite. The calibration correctly detected my front Paradigms 100v2 as large, but then decided to remove all low end from them. Looking at the final equalizer, I see that there is about 6dB dip around 80-200Hz for both fronts. The resulting sound is thinner and somehow harsher, bass guitars all but disappear. Well, maybe it's more "scientifically" correct, but somehow it's not as pleasant to listen to. Switching to Pure brings low end back and makes it normal.
Anybody had the same experience?
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post #2331 of 5778
1/29/13 at 7:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asx View Post

Received my av8001 yesterday. Didn't have a lot of time to play with it, but tried few things. Have peculiar results with Audyssey. Looks like everybody says that it adds bass, but in my case it's the opposite. The calibration correctly detected my front Paradigms 100v2 as large, but then decided to remove all low end from them. Looking at the final equalizer, I see that there is about 6dB dip around 80-200Hz for both fronts. The resulting sound is thinner and somehow harsher, bass guitars all but disappear. Well, maybe it's more "scientifically" correct, but somehow it's not as pleasant to listen to. Switching to Pure brings low end back and makes it normal.
Anybody had the same experience?

Yes i did, and i switched my fronts from large to small to let the sub take care of bass and it sounds great.... i have b&w 800 ,nautilus which i know can handle but after playing with it i like the way it sounds. Maybe thrang can chime it and answer better for you....
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post #2332 of 5778
1/29/13 at 7:26am
My experience with Audyssey is not so infallible. Different mics can get different results so unless you have pro I would not take it as gospel. To me it can add harshness that does not exist with it off. But I have the DHC-80.3 , not the 8801.
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post #2333 of 5778
1/29/13 at 7:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asx View Post

Received my av8001 yesterday. Didn't have a lot of time to play with it, but tried few things. Have peculiar results with Audyssey. Looks like everybody says that it adds bass, but in my case it's the opposite. The calibration correctly detected my front Paradigms 100v2 as large, but then decided to remove all low end from them. Looking at the final equalizer, I see that there is about 6dB dip around 80-200Hz for both fronts. The resulting sound is thinner and somehow harsher, bass guitars all but disappear. Well, maybe it's more "scientifically" correct, but somehow it's not as pleasant to listen to. Switching to Pure brings low end back and makes it normal.
Anybody had the same experience?

Audyssey can be tricky to get right - no one is "one and done"!

Head over to the Audyssey thread for more details, but make sure there is minimal ambient noise, probe facing the ceiling, ear level, recline seats if applicable (I like to put a blanket of the leather as well), clear line of site to all speakers, assure the mic is isolated from vibrations during the test, try the recommended testing pattern and spacing, etc...
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post #2334 of 5778
1/29/13 at 7:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post

Yes i did, and i switched my fronts from large to small to let the sub take care of bass and it sounds great.... i have b&w 800 ,nautilus which i know can handle but after playing with it i like the way it sounds. Maybe thrang can chime it and answer better for you....

Ironically, I'm preferring my 802D2's and 803D2's set to large, and let my two fathoms f113's handle LFE and height/rears crossings at 60/80. I think the Mac amps help in this regard, as they have great power reserves and let the speakers play effortlessly even at lower frequencies.

Everyone's room and placement is different of course...
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post #2335 of 5778
1/29/13 at 7:32am
Hey I haven't tried 4k yet, but does it only allow 3840 x 2160 pixel? Seems to say so below. So it wouldn't allow the 4096 x 2160 that the Sony Vw1000 will take?




About 4K function
This unit supports input and output of 4K (3840 x 2160 pixels) video signals of HDMI.
When a device supporting 4K is connected, use a cable compatible with “High Speed HDMI cable” or
“High Speed HDMI cable with Ethernet”.
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post #2336 of 5778
1/29/13 at 7:51am
It is known that Paradigms 100v2 are a little bit too heavy on bass, but I think Audyssey has freaked out, over-reacted, and removed too much.

Few question on Audyssey implementation in av8801.
Am I right that there is no way to tweak the Audyssey final equalizers? Or at least use them as the "base" for custom graphic EQs? Or the only way to use graphic EQs is to start fresh from zero? (Edit: Found "Copy" function that supposedly copies "flat" Audyssey curves to the graphic EQ. Would be nice if they explained the difference between "flat" and normal eq curves in some details though...)
Can I preset speaker sizes (let's say I fronts to small) and then run auto equalization? I mean, will Audyssey re-detect them as large again, or will try to work with my preset? I'm asking because changing fronts to small after the auto calibration is done would probably result in wrong eq for both fronts and the sub. (Edit: Read in the Audyssey thread that it's perfectly safe to change from Large to Small after the equalization is done.)
Edited by Asx - 1/29/13 at 1:09pm
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post #2337 of 5778
1/29/13 at 8:13am
So the 4520 can run 11.x channel processing with wides and heights with DTS HD/Dolby TrueHD but the 8801's current firmware can't?
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post #2338 of 5778
1/29/13 at 8:18am
Following up on my earlier post about setting up the Rel R528 sub with Audyssey, here's what the tech from Rel suggested:

So here's what you do firstly unplug the high level and set the volume on the REL to about 11oclock and plug it into the LFE only.
Now run the room correction , then check the setting they speakers should be set to large and the sub should be set to LFE only with the crossover set to 200htz giving the DOLBY DIGITAL filter the ability to take what it needs from the LFE signal .
Now manually follow the instructions in the manual to set up the high level connection .
You are now ready to rock , the LFE is doing what it needs to do and the high level is underpinning the speakers giving them that natural extended bass.

I'm still confused by this. 200Hz crossover???
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post #2339 of 5778
1/29/13 at 8:39am
I was wondering how the owners like the bass on this processor with movies, utilizing bitstream hdmi from the blu ray player. I don't mind tight and articulate bass, but I don't like thin bass - I definitely like some weight to it - especially for movies. Anyway, let me know what you think about the sonics, with regards to bass...

Dave
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post #2340 of 5778
1/29/13 at 9:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post

Is there any way too use the Marantz for a pass thru with my classe omega preamp. I have some cam 400 monoblocks on the fronts and classe omega cd/sacd transport and a classe omega pre amp that i would like to compare for 2 channel, so instead of switching the cables to the classe can i use the Marantz as a pass thru for a dedicated 2 channel set up??

Sure but it is an active pass-through and you might be better off using the Omega as a passthrough for comparison purposes.

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