Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 126

The former.

Given that Emotivas use a decent bit higher amount of gain than is usual to account for inexpensive AVR's with subpar Preamp Stages, I am not surprised to read that you have done this. The high amount of gain also helps to give many new owners (especially those who have never owned an outboard amplifier) the impression that there is an massive difference between them and a decent quality AVR.

You have to remember Marantz has their pre/pro's matched up to their amps. That said, there are gain games being played by some amplifier companies. You can guess why, I'll stay away from posting my reasoning.
Edited by comfynumb - 3/10/13 at 4:38am

Thanks again.
In that case, I will just use the regular mode, DTS-HD, Dolby TrueHD, ect, and not the Pure Direct Mode, and also change my Speakers to Large as the Audyssey originally detected them as, even though all mines are Bookshelf Speakers with a lower -3 dB limit around 50 Hz.
Thanks.
Ken.

This Audioholics article states the THX stardard is 29 DB but I always thought it was 28.

- Rich
Edited by RichB - 3/10/13 at 8:17am

DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD have nothing to do with Direct. The former are the names for the types of lossless audio encodings provided on Blu-ray discs. They get decoded whether or not you select Direct. I think you are confusing them with the audio manipulations named Dolby ProLogic and DTS Neo-x, which expand two-channel stereo into multi-channel surround sound. Direct disables these manipulations, along with all of the other audio processing provided by the receiver.
Audyssey does not detect them as "Large". The "size" choice is determined by separate code provided by Marantz, not by Audyssey. Audyssey tells the manufacturer's code what the speaker's f3 point is and then the manufacturer decides how to present it to the user.

In general, setting all of the speakers as "Small" will provide the best sound. "Small" = "Enable bass management". The use of the words "small" and "large" was a very poor choice by D&M, since "Small" seems to disparage speakers with wide frequency response ranges. Even so, quality subwoofers can provide much better low frequency sounds than can even the best floor standing speakers. Because of the way low frequency sounds interact with room boundaries, you need to optimize the placement of the subwoofer in your room, which invariably is not the same positions needed for the best reproduction of the upper frequencies.

Thank you for your valuable informations, especially the fact that "Small" Enables the "Bass Management", but the "Large" Would Not.
I guess you meant by "Management" an option to choose the HPFs for those "Small" Bookshelf Speakers, and Spare those "Small" Speakers of Lower Frequency Sound Burdens?
Even if my amplifier, Outlaw Model 7700, has a 300 wpc @4ohms, would my "Small" Speakers produce a better overall sound with setting the HFSs at around 60-80 Hz?
Thank you.
Ken.

That is correct. As far as crossovers, try out which sounds best to you. Of course, I suppose you have a sub?

Yes, I have two Velodyne DSL-5000R Subwoofers, 600 RMS each.
That was one of the main reasons that I got the AV8801, for its capability to Calibrate 2 Subwoofers, other than buying a One Bigger Subwoofer to go along with my previous AV7005.
I had tried to set all the HPSs and LPFs at 80 Hz, prior to watching Movies at Pure Direct Mode, and noticed more "Natural?" sound; and the members commented that at Pure Direct Mode, I am not using the Crossovers that I had set at the 80 Hz. Thus, I tried to eliminate the Crossovers and set all my speakers as "Large" and thought that the sound was again more "Natural".
I am at a phase where I will use the "Large" settings for all my Bookshelf Speakers; and if I think I am losing some details, then I will go back to the "Small" settings with Crossovers at 60-80 Hz.
Thank you.
Ken.

Try the LPF in the AV8801 at 120hz.

I have an all GoldenEar system. Triton 2s with 50 C and supersat 50s all around in a 7.1 system. I have a HSU VTF 15H for the sub. I use large for the Triton 2s. I can't see using them as small when they have built in subs. Not as good as the HSU but respectable in their own right.

Interesting I have three 800Diamond in the front and they think I should cross them over at 80

I don't and I suspect if they had those speakers in their room, they wouldn't either

- Rich

I know I would have a hard time not running them full range. By all accounts an amazing speaker. And your Studios too Rich

 

Yes, I guess not too many can experiment :)  Lovel the Revel as well, Focal makes their beryllium tweeter don't they?

My friend is lusting after the new Focals, he is resisting while funds build up.
However, resistance is futile.

- Rich

I was thinking:
If and Only If, Setting Crossovers after Assigning your speakers as "Small" Speakers is Better for a Sound, then Non-Pure Direct Mode, e.g. modes involving the Audyssey EQ, has to be Better than the Pure Direct Mode, because in Pure Direct Mode, all the Crossover Settings disappear, and your Speakers act as "Large" speakers.
So Pure Direct Mode is Not really the Best Mode after all......

you dont think that...generally speaking....you get more when you buy more expensive audio components?

I am not asking if you think its worth the extra money or bang for the buck etc

..the reason I make the comment is there is always someone that says they cant hear the difference in a midrange ($500) receiver and one that costs 4x as much....say a Denon 2112 and a 4520


Warren

I am sure they can hear the difference.
All midrange receiver does not have much power but have decent processing.
That is why many use them as preamps. That is what I would do on a budget.

Are higher end products worth it. It depends.
I spent a lot of money on my speakers and I feel they have been worth it.
I do not believe in high-end receivers because they cram too much crap in one box.
The technology and features move fast compared to other components.

Outlaw is a special case because they are ATI amps and amps have a straight forward job.

You could buy and Outlaw, ATI, Parasound, Anthem and perhaps you could hear the difference.
Wit the Outlaw you would have to spend twice the money to even challenge its specs.
Does that mean it sounds better than an Emotiva, I do not know.

I will bet that any of them mated with the a $600 preamp or AVR outperform at $2000 receiver.
If you are getting any where near that amount of money, you should consider separates.

Whether you need that depends on your speakers, room, and preferences.


- Rich

Those things do look cool! I've never heard them.

How do you think they deal with the different arrival time at your ear from each driver? Each driver is a different distance from your ear and from the middle (closest) to the top (furthest) is a sonically relevant difference. I could imagine that thing as a digital speaker with it's own internal amps since then it could apply the requred delays as DSP (the smallest bit of what Audyssey handles for different speaker distances). But without that it seems hard to get right.

Adam

Not that Rich or his comments need any backing up but I'll second his recommendation to go with separate components. I have a Denon receiver and it doesn't even come close to the sound of my pre/pro amp combination. Like he stated WAY too much stuff crammed in the case, and they have to sacrifice somewhere. Not to say they they don't sound good just that components do sound better. Oh this should start a fist fight lol.

Your final conclusion is correct.

I think all the speakers work as one. No cross overs, no tweet, no mid, no woofer. A wall of sound from ceiling to floor.

have you experimented with listening to multi-channel music (SACD or DVD-A) with front surround set = LARGE? I really like this personally.......and with nearly full-range (B&W 800D) front-surround I would imagine should perform nice.

Hi guys, i have a Denon AVP1HD pre but since it is not 3d/Audissey XT32 updated and the update is no longer available i was thinkin' of a new pre. This Marantz would be, on paper specs, my first choise. Sincerely, do you think it would be a step further or should i stay with my non 3d/xt32 Denon A1HD?
Please advise!
Thx

I will tout the performance of a good set of line source speakers (see avatar pic). I love my LS6's, they are just unreal for music. The particular design linked to seems a bit suspect and I would be slightly hesitant to the presence of not only delay times and level matching between all speakers, the "required" Eq, and last but not least the intermodular distortion you would have attempting to use the same driver for the lowest and highest freq's all at the same time. The LS6' address most of this, and are i guess "2way" where this design doesn't appear to take any of that into consideration.

I don't want to appear biased but I also had the AVP-A1 and moved to the 8801....my advise is you should audition the 8801for yourself....YMMV...

Yes, I have rather impressive to be honest :)

 

For music and with these speakers I go full range on SACDs or BluRays from 2L like this one 

 

TrondheimSolistene - SOUVENIR

Pure Audio Blu-ray

- DTS HD MA 192kHz/24 bit 5.1
- DTS HD MA 96kHz/24 bit 7.1
- Auro-3D 96kHz/24 bit 9.1 
- LPCM 192kHz/24 bit STEREO
mShuttle: FLAC 192kHz + MP3  Region: ABC - worldwide

 

 

This really depends on your sub situation as to setting what we all agree on as very capable mains, if your sub or subs can produce clean well defined bass and is positioned wear it performs its best as I'm sure you've placed your capable mains to do so , by default the sound indeed should be superior! The thing to get out of your head is the fact that I'm setting my mains to "Small' when in fact your not, your merely redirecting specific bass frequencies to what I hope (if you didn't cut corners) is something more capable than your capable mains to handle said frequencies. My mains stand well over 6ft tall and have total of 10 drivers per speaker and are indeed capable of pressurizing my 20x21x8 room with no probs! Now having said that my sub is the new Ken Kreisel DXD12012 a sub which has quickly gained my adoration and respect for well defined articulated clean bass regardless of frequency its given to reproduce, in the pass its was indeed more difficult to integrate a sub with mains ! guys times have indeed changed and some of those pass problems we gave a shot to little and or no success sent us back to default position, if you guys would put the time into exploring what the venerable 8801 with its implementation of Audyssey a 'Sonic tour de Force" awaits and you will find yourself scrambling at music and movie catalogs once again to enjoy ones self immensely.

These are only powerful processing options (replace the term "small" to I'm only engaging "crossovers" it may help ) and I cant stress that point enough! you can always run your mains fullrange as it to is an option

That much better eh!