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Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 138

post #4111 of 6305
3/20/13 at 8:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlxG View Post

Rich,

Preamp's 2 to 3 Vout output typically operates in a large signal region. It's more difficult to determine the preamp's non-linear behavior as a function of Vout vs Frequency, vs complex input impedance of the amplifier.

You'll have to try the synergy between an AV8801 and the Outlaw amp. In my situation, I thought that Ayre 5-Kxe completely sucked driving my Gemstone amp when I bi-amped it. The sound was compressed and anemic which lacked life. Where, my inexpensive Outlaw 1050 receiver has excellent interaction. The Gemstone is spec'd at 23kOhms input impedance and looks like a 11.5kOhms load when bi-amped.

Thanks this is good information.
Since I have not bought an amp yet, it gets to be a hard choice.

For my Revel Salons which dip to 3 ohms so they like current.
The Outlaw 7900 has been confirms at >10K ohms input impedance.
The ATI version is more money but they have a different input stage that is 28K ohms.
So there is a chance. Both amps are 300 WPC into 8 ohms and 450 WPC into 4 ohms.

The Outlaw 7700 is significantly cheaper and is 200 WPC into 8 and 300 WPC into 4.
It is spec'ed the same as the ATI2000 series with an input impedance of >28K ohms.
So if bi-amping is OK with this processor driving 14K ohms, then I am OK.

In the Home Theater Mag review of the Parasound Halo A5, they felt the A4 had a more detailed sound than the 7900.
However, the Parasound has a very high impedance: 47 k ohms unbalanced; 94 k ohms balanced.

I think it is less likely that a good A/B sound that much different.
So I am developing a theory that input impedance might be involved.
This would explain the different performance experienced when testing these amps.
A lower input impedance amp might not match as well with all preamps.

What do you think?

- Rich
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post #4112 of 6305
3/20/13 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1431914/marantz-av8801-preamp-processor-official-owners-thread/3400_50#post_23022176


Hi chaps,

Thanks for all the advice, I managed to get hold of the actual codes for this model from a kind forum member (Mark) and that solved my problems after a little tweaking with delimiters.

Cheers,

Adam smile.gif
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post #4113 of 6305
3/20/13 at 9:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelEyes View Post

Hi chaps,

Thanks for all the advice, I managed to get hold of the actual codes for this model from a kind forum member (Mark) and that solved my problems after a little tweaking with delimiters.

Cheers,

Adam smile.gif



Hi, glad to hear your problem is solved smile.gif When you have time tell us what thought of your demo session.
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post #4114 of 6305
3/20/13 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Yes but, apparently, there are HDAMs and there are HDAMs.

This one board bears all the HDAMs for the 7005:



These (all of them) are the HDAMS for the 8801:

AV7005 HDAM configuration- single board featuring multiple SMT-based symmetrical circuits.
AV8801 HDAM configuration- multiple separate PC boards featuring (symmetrical) discrete circuits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

A good point. They are clearly a much different layout. How they perform in comparison I can't say. I'd expect, or at least hope, the 8801 would be even better if there is a difference beyond the layout config / count.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Yes.  I, too, would not say the difference is significant but it is suggestive.
I guess it depends on complete chain of components- ie. source, amp(s), speakers- whether one can discern sound quality differences?
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post #4115 of 6305
3/20/13 at 10:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post


I guess it depends on complete chain of components- ie. source, amp(s), speakers- whether one can discern sound quality differences?

Maybe that, or maybe an improperly controlled experiment.
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post #4116 of 6305
3/20/13 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlxG View Post

Rich,

Preamp's 2 to 3 Vout output typically operates in a large signal region.

Can you clarify? Seldom, well at least for most people, are you using 2-3 volts out of a pre amp. That's more than enough to drive most amps to full output (typ. 1.5-1.8V, give or take a bit).
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post #4117 of 6305
3/20/13 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

I have a minor quibble with Kal's review. It mentions
The multichannel AV9000 pre/pro was released in summer of 1999. I don't believe it was considered part of their Reference line. The AV8003 was their second multichannel pre/pro, but the first to support HDMI.

So for clarification, is the AV8801 considered Marantz's non-Reference multichannel line of product?
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post #4118 of 6305
3/20/13 at 12:45pm
It's non-Reference. Current Reference model names all have an S in the middle. See http://us.marantz.com/us/products/pages/productlisting.aspx?CatId=ReferenceSeries
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post #4119 of 6305
3/20/13 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

Can you clarify? Seldom, well at least for most people, are you using 2-3 volts out of a pre amp. That's more than enough to drive most amps to full output (typ. 1.5-1.8V, give or take a bit).

The loading of my amp sinks way too much current and as of results I've observed compressed (limited) dynamic range out go the amp. My amp is spec'd at 1V sensitivity in order to achieve it's maximum power.

I wish there was a simple way to select the amp and match it to the source(preamp).. Unfortunately the impedance is made of real (purely resistive) and imaginary components (inductive & capacitive). We also need to know the gm (transconductnce) of each amplifier stage which requires a vector network analyzer to fully characterize the amplifier's behavior with lot's of network analysis theory knowledge which I use for work but refuse to do it as a hobby.

Due to my limited available time, I just ignore the specs and rely on trial & error method in my listening position.
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post #4120 of 6305
3/20/13 at 2:53pm
Hi everyone,

I am planning on buying an AV8801 soon, and have some questions for all you owners here.

First off, I know this unit is not THX certified, and being that it's not, have any of you noticed a hit in overall sound quality performance with THX being absent? The reason I ask is because my current pre/pro (Denon AVP-A1HDCI) is THX Ultra 2, and I have really come to love the sound of THX in the mix. Actually I love everything about my Denon AVP, and I am really feeling sore about replacing it. And the only reason I am looking into replacing it is because it has no ARC on its HDMI's. I just recently purchased an LG 84" 4K LED TV, and when watching a 3D movie with sound going through my AVP, the sound is out of sync with the picture. The Denon AVP only has an "auto sync" function, so no manual adjustments are available.

So I'm hoping that by using the ARC function on the AV8801, the picture and sound will be perfectly in sync.

The other question I have is, all my HT seating have built in Buttkicker tactile transducers. My Denon AVP has a dedicated transducer output for this purpose, but the AV8801 does not have a transducer pre-out. I use two subwoofers in my setup, and will be using both XLR sub outs. So I'm curious, if both XLR sub outs are being used on the 8801, can I still use one of the RCA sub pre-outs to send a signal to the Buttkickers? Are both XLR's and RCA's active at the same time?

And I noticed on the front display that it shows how many channels are being output. Does it also let you know what number of channels are being input? My Denon AVP does this, and I find it quite useful.

Thanks in advance.smile.gif
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post #4121 of 6305
3/20/13 at 2:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

I have a minor quibble with Kal's review. It mentions
The multichannel AV9000 pre/pro was released in summer of 1999. I don't believe it was considered part of their Reference line. The AV8003 was their second multichannel pre/pro, but the first to support HDMI.

Yeah.  I forgot about that.  Surprises me that Marantz didn't spot it when they had the opportunity to "fact check." 

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post #4122 of 6305
3/20/13 at 4:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

Hi everyone,

I am planning on buying an AV8801 soon, and have some questions for all you owners here.

First off, I know this unit is not THX certified, and being that it's not, have any of you noticed a hit in overall sound quality performance with THX being absent? The reason I ask is because my current pre/pro (Denon AVP-A1HDCI) is THX Ultra 2, and I have really come to love the sound of THX in the mix. Actually I love everything about my Denon AVP, and I am really feeling sore about replacing it. And the only reason I am looking into replacing it is because it has no ARC on its HDMI's. I just recently purchased an LG 84" 4K LED TV, and when watching a 3D movie with sound going through my AVP, the sound is out of sync with the picture. The Denon AVP only has an "auto sync" function, so no manual adjustments are available.

So I'm hoping that by using the ARC function on the AV8801, the picture and sound will be perfectly in sync.

The other question I have is, all my HT seating have built in Buttkicker tactile transducers. My Denon AVP has a dedicated transducer output for this purpose, but the AV8801 does not have a transducer pre-out. I use two subwoofers in my setup, and will be using both XLR sub outs. So I'm curious, if both XLR sub outs are being used on the 8801, can I still use one of the RCA sub pre-outs to send a signal to the Buttkickers? Are both XLR's and RCA's active at the same time?

And I noticed on the front display that it shows how many channels are being output. Does it also let you know what number of channels are being input? My Denon AVP does this, and I find it quite useful.

Thanks in advance.smile.gif

I use Clark Tactile Transducers. I have a splitter to split the subwoofer output from my AV8801 into 2 signals, one going to my sub and the other to my transducers' amp. My sub does not have XLR input so I did not check if XLR and RCA sub outs work simultaneously. Probably. If not I suppose you can do it like I did for one of your subs. I turn off my transducer amp when running audyssey EQ.
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post #4123 of 6305
3/20/13 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by randman View Post

I use Clark Tactile Transducers. I have a splitter to split the subwoofer output from my AV8801 into 2 signals, one going to my sub and the other to my transducers' amp. My sub does not have XLR input so I did not check if XLR and RCA sub outs work simultaneously. Probably. If not I suppose you can do it like I did for one of your subs. I turn off my transducer amp when running audyssey EQ.

Thanks for your quick reply.wink.gif

I'll use the RCA pre-outs to connect my subs if I have to, but would much rather use the XLR's. If both the XLR's and RCA's are active simultaneously, that would be awesome!smile.gif

And yep, I definitely turn off the transducer amp when running Audyssey.


Seth
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post #4124 of 6305
3/20/13 at 4:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

It's non-Reference. Current Reference model names all have an S in the middle. See http://us.marantz.com/us/products/pages/productlisting.aspx?CatId=ReferenceSeries

So will they come out with a reference model, in a gold box selling for $10,000!
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post #4125 of 6305
3/20/13 at 4:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Yeah.  I forgot about that.  Surprises me that Marantz didn't spot it when they had the opportunity to "fact check." 

PAID ADVERTISING, I HAVE LEARNED TO TAKE ALL THESE REVIEWS WITH A BLOCK OF SALT!

When these reviewers all are mandated by law that they should disclose all conflict of interest with all the companies that pays them or give them freebies then we will all be better off! But that's not going to happen because it does no arm! Only takes your money frown.gif

Look at what is happening with Pharmaceutical companies they now have to disclose all the money they pay to physicians!
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post #4126 of 6305
3/20/13 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post


PAID ADVERTISING, I HAVE LEARNED TO TAKE ALL THESE REVIEWS WITH A BLOCK OF SALT!

When these reviewers all are mandated by law that they should disclose all conflict of interest with all the companies that pays them or give them freebies then we will all be better off! But that's not going to happen because it does no arm! Only takes your money frown.gif

Look at what is happening with Pharmaceutical companies they now have to disclose all the money they pay to physicians!

Are  you off your meds? confused.gif

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post #4127 of 6305
3/20/13 at 5:06pm
Kal , to go off topic briefly, I'm looking for an sacd of Rachmanioff Sym No. 2 and one in particular that has the "Dances from Alkeo Scherzo" I have one that I purchased a few years back from Telarc Paavo Jarvi and CSO but cant seem to find another?

Any suggestions?

Regards Jeff
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post #4128 of 6305
3/20/13 at 5:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

PAID ADVERTISING, I HAVE LEARNED TO TAKE ALL THESE REVIEWS WITH A BLOCK OF SALT!

When these reviewers all are mandated by law that they should disclose all conflict of interest with all the companies that pays them or give them freebies then we will all be better off! But that's not going to happen because it does no arm! Only takes your money frown.gif

Look at what is happening with Pharmaceutical companies they now have to disclose all the money they pay to physicians!

Pharmaceutical companies do not pay physicians. Except those that work for them directly.
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post #4129 of 6305
3/20/13 at 5:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Kal , to go off topic briefly, I'm looking for an sacd of Rachmanioff Sym No. 2 and one in particular that has the "Dances from Alkeo Scherzo" I have one that I purchased a few years back from Telarc Paavo Jarvi and CSO but cant seem to find another?

I know of no other with this combination.  It is the only Aleko on SACD, afaik.

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post #4130 of 6305
3/20/13 at 5:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

It's non-Reference. Current Reference model names all have an S in the middle. See http://us.marantz.com/us/products/pages/productlisting.aspx?CatId=ReferenceSeries

I wonder why they choose not to make a 11.1 Reference model?
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post #4131 of 6305
3/20/13 at 6:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

I wonder why they choose not to make a 11.1 Reference model?

What do you guys think they they could've done with the 8801 to give it reference status? I thought the copper clad chassis and such indicated its status or just "flagship" status only?

here's a question for you guys, in all my home movie watching years, have I never heard anything that pans ( between all speakers in my 5.1 setup), image and sheer timing of impact than from the 8801 Am I alone on this one?
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post #4132 of 6305
3/20/13 at 6:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I know of no other with this combination.  It is the only Aleko on SACD, afaik.

frown.gif
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post #4133 of 6305
3/20/13 at 6:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

What do you guys think they they could've done with the 8801 to give it reference status? I thought the copper clad chassis and such indicated its status or just "flagship" status only?

here's a question for you guys, in all my home movie watching years, have I never heard anything that pans ( between all speakers in my 5.1 setup), image and sheer timing of impact than from the 8801 Am I alone on this one?

Their reference line is 2 channel stereo only. I suppose it's largely due to marketing assuming that stereo audio purists would be willing to pay relatively more per channel for the goal of reaching audio nirvana. Can't imagine how much more they would charge if they had a multi-channel amp in their reference line. I assume much more than the AV8801 price for an incremental improvement, real or imagined...
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post #4134 of 6305
3/20/13 at 6:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

here's a question for you guys, in all my home movie watching years, have I never heard anything that pans ( between all speakers in my 5.1 setup), image and sheer timing of impact than from the 8801 Am I alone on this one?

You are not alone.  wink.gif

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post #4135 of 6305
3/20/13 at 6:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

Hi everyone,

I am planning on buying an AV8801 soon, and have some questions for all you owners here.

First off, I know this unit is not THX certified, and being that it's not, have any of you noticed a hit in overall sound quality performance with THX being absent?

I think all of the other receivers (Denon, Pioneer Elite) and the one pre/pro (Integra) I had before the AV8801 were THX certified. And now that I have the 8801, I'm much happier with the sound.


Quote:
Are both XLR's and RCA's active at the same time?

Yes. I'm currently running XLR to my amps for some channels and RCA for the others. So both sets of outputs are live at the same time.


Quote:
Does it also let you know what number of channels are being input?

Search this thread for "Status command". There's a "Status" command you can send the AV8801 using an IR remote. You can teach it to programmable remotes. Unfortunately, the "Status" command is NOT included on the remote that comes with the AV8801. The "info" button they provide is much less informative. The "Status" command provides 7 pages of info - and the type of audio input - including channel count - is included on page 1.
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post #4136 of 6305
3/20/13 at 7:00pm
THX certification means the equipment meets certain standards but just because something isn't THX certified doesn't mean it won't meet or exceed THX criteria in terms of sound quality. Granted it won't have certain THX post processing modes. Not being THX certified saves money since the manufacturer doesn't have to pay THX. Even the Classé CT-SSP which cost nearly three times the AV8801 isn't THX certified (and the Classé CT-SSP I don't think even has automatic EQ, something more valuable!), while processors cheaper than the AV8801 are THX certified.
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post #4137 of 6305
3/20/13 at 7:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

What do you guys think they they could've done with the 8801 to give it reference status? I thought the copper clad chassis and such indicated its status or just "flagship" status only?

here's a question for you guys, in all my home movie watching years, have I never heard anything that pans ( between all speakers in my 5.1 setup), image and sheer timing of impact than from the 8801 Am I alone on this one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

You are not alone.  wink.gif

Nope, you aren't alone. This is one of the main reasons I bought the 8801. If you want to experience a really spine tingling moment, watch the Blu-ray of Zero Dark Thirty and the opening sequence with the 8801...it will send chills down your spine.
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post #4138 of 6305
3/20/13 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

And I noticed on the front display that it shows how many channels are being output. Does it also let you know what number of channels are being input? 

It can do either.  You can choose what you prefer to see and I agree with you as I prefer to see the input.  I can control the output.

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post #4139 of 6305
3/20/13 at 10:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post


Nope, you aren't alone. This is one of the main reasons I bought the 8801. If you want to experience a really spine tingling moment, watch the Blu-ray of Zero Dark Thirty and the opening sequence with the 8801...it will send chills down your spine.

I just finished "Argo" I got it and "Zero Dark Thirty" today from Netflix, Now I really can't wait to watch the latter , as I've mostly kept away from spoilers and have no clue what its about but have heard many good things from the few peaks I took at Ralphs review!

Thanks for the heads up smile.gif
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post #4140 of 6305
3/20/13 at 11:52pm
New firmware is up. Damn, 43 minutes. ......
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