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Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 165

post #4921 of 11317
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

Audyssey usually cuts my subs to -8 and-9db. I also want more bass, so I usually bump them up alot, sometimes 7-8db. I have turned my subs into the wall with the woofer facing it. I get a ton of output there running them even at what audyssey set them. If I could find a way to make them look aesthetically pleasing this way, I would keep them there. biggrin.gif

You can try and use your spl meter to check each sub and see what level you are getting. you could try bumping them up to 75db each, then you would get the output you need. right now, they are less because audyssey takes into account them playing together.

Thanks for the input.wink.gif

I went ahead and did another Audyssey run today, as I wasn't overly happy with the way the first one sounded (the left rear and left surround output was a tad higher than I liked). So I did a tighter mic placement arrangement and the results were much more pleasing. After I got out of the menu for Audyssey, I gave it a listen. Good but a bit too aggressive in the surrounds. On my Denon AVP I always used Dynamic Volume set to day, and I loved the sound with it engaged. So I did the same with this one, only instead of day, it has it as light.

I gave it a listen again (using the Blu-ray of Rush Hour 3), and this time it sounded really good. I did have to bump up the subs a good bit (approx 7db), but now the LFE on movies sounds very nice.smile.gif And the Buttkickers in the HT seats are actually a lot more active now, as the increase in sub level also increased the amount of LFE going out via the RCA subwoofer pre-outs. I'm going to leave it all set this way for a week and see how I like it. If it sounds really good with a variety of material, it's going to stay this way.

I watched The Losers on Blu-ray, and the sound was pretty amazing.smile.gif Can't say yet that it bests the sound I was getting from my Denon AVP, but so far I like what I'm hearing.smile.gif
post #4922 of 11317
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Hmm! My Oppo 105's bass is taunt and deep through the XLR's in both direct and pure direct modes!

Have you tried Stereo?

I have just hooked it up to a makeshift system involving my old Quad 606 power amps and a pair of old Mission 780SEs
post #4923 of 11317
Guys,
I'm planning to upgrade to the AV8801 pre/pro from my current Pioneer SC-LX86 receiver. I'm currently running 9-channels in my set up. I can't decide whether to get the MM8077 and MM7025 power amps or 2 units of MM7055 power amp to power my 9-channels. The AV8801 and 2xMM7055 combo is cheaper by around $560. Will there be a significant difference in sound quality between the MM8077 and MM7055? Thanks!!! smile.gif
post #4924 of 11317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

Have you tried Stereo?

I have just hooked it up to a makeshift system involving my old Quad 606 power amps and a pair of old Mission 780SEs

Do you mean the stereo mode on the 8801 or the Oppo 105 directly to the amp? if the latter then yes indeed! right to my Halo A21 and I about lost it eek.gif That was a music experience I'm saving when I want that something special and Am in certain mood wink.gif I get all squishy just thinking about it biggrin.gif

Doing that gave me a great reference point on evaluating the Analog inputs on the 8801 which I can say are extremely close to nothing in the path at all!
post #4925 of 11317
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

Thanks for the input.wink.gif

I went ahead and did another Audyssey run today, as I wasn't overly happy with the way the first one sounded (the left rear and left surround output was a tad higher than I liked). So I did a tighter mic placement arrangement and the results were much more pleasing. After I got out of the menu for Audyssey, I gave it a listen. Good but a bit too aggressive in the surrounds. On my Denon AVP I always used Dynamic Volume set to day, and I loved the sound with it engaged. So I did the same with this one, only instead of day, it has it as light.

I gave it a listen again (using the Blu-ray of Rush Hour 3), and this time it sounded really good. I did have to bump up the subs a good bit (approx 7db), but now the LFE on movies sounds very nice.smile.gif And the Buttkickers in the HT seats are actually a lot more active now, as the increase in sub level also increased the amount of LFE going out via the RCA subwoofer pre-outs. I'm going to leave it all set this way for a week and see how I like it. If it sounds really good with a variety of material, it's going to stay this way.

I watched The Losers on Blu-ray, and the sound was pretty amazing.smile.gif Can't say yet that it bests the sound I was getting from my Denon AVP, but so far I like what I'm hearing.smile.gif

Sweet!
post #4926 of 11317
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Do you mean the stereo mode on the 8801 or the Oppo 105 directly to the amp? if the latter then yes indeed! right to my Halo A21 and I about lost it eek.gif That was a music experience I'm saving when I want that something special and Am in certain mood wink.gif I get all squishy just thinking about it biggrin.gif

Doing that gave me a great reference point on evaluating the Analog inputs on the 8801 which I can say are extremely close to nothing in the path at all!

Here's how I am hooking it up.

No Audyssey calibration because as I said, it's just an interim setup.

MBP with Audirvana Plus
Wireworld Starlight Platinum
TEAC UD-501 - XLR out to Marantz AV8801
Marantz AV8801 RCA out to Quad 606 power amp
Quad 606 power amp to Mission 780SEs

The Marantz was originally in "STEREO" mode. Decent amount of bass (no AutoEQ performed)

Then I switched to Direct/Pure Direct and the bass became leaner and less pronounced.
post #4927 of 11317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

Here's how I am hooking it up.

No Audyssey calibration because as I said, it's just an interim setup.

MBP with Audirvana Plus
Wireworld Starlight Platinum
TEAC UD-501 - XLR out to Marantz AV8801
Marantz AV8801 RCA out to Quad 606 power amp
Quad 606 power amp to Mission 780SEs

The Marantz was originally in "STEREO" mode. Decent amount of bass (no AutoEQ performed)

Then I switched to Direct/Pure Direct and the bass became leaner and less pronounced.

I see that's because in the stereo mode the 8801's dacs are involved ,in direct and pure its the Teac alone, you could try the rca's from the Teac ( if this is an option) to FR/FL of the 8801's 7.1 inputs to see if there is a difference to be had.
post #4928 of 11317
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

I see that's because in the stereo mode the 8801's dacs are involved ,in direct and pure its the Teac alone, you could try the rca's from the Teac ( if this is an option) to FR/FL of the 8801's 7.1 inputs to see if there is a difference to be had.

Interesting. Hadn't considered that.

So does Pure Direct on the Marantz bypass A-D-A conversion?
post #4929 of 11317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

Interesting. Hadn't considered that.

So does Pure Direct on the Marantz bypass A-D-A conversion?

It should!
post #4930 of 11317
Direct disables the signal processing routines in the DSP. Pure Direct turns off irrelevant circuitry (like the front panel display) to reduce the possibility of electrical noise getting into the signal path. Certainly the analog input is digitized. That's so that low frequencies can be copied to the subwoofer channel (so LFE+MAIN works). I am not aware of Marantz having published any block diagrams of the circuitry, so I don't know if the analog output signal is derived from that digitization or has passed through only analog circuits. Given the quality of the digital circuits, however, it really shouldn't matter so far as the quality of the audio output is concerned. It "only" affects the emotions one has about it -- which certainly matter.

FWIW, I found a simplified block diagram of the AVR 4520, but it describes only the digital electronics at a very high level and not any of the analog inputs.
post #4931 of 11317
Does the Marantz AV8801 really down-sample high-resolution signals to 48KHz/sec when applying Audyssey MultEQ XT32?

According to this review published yesterday on Anthem's Room Correction system (ARC) by Dr. David A. Rich on Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity's website, the AV8801 down-samples high-resolution signals to 48KHz/sec when applying Audyssey MultEQ XT32.

Read the following quote taken from the review on the referenced website link:

"Notes on High Resolution Signal Processing:

The Anthem D2 and AVM Pre/Pro products that have ARC will process an incoming signal at its native rate up to 96k samples/second. Robert Kozel verified this by using a 30kHz test signal sampled at 96k samples/sec on an Anthem D2. He did the same test with the new Marantz AV8801 Pre/Pro that has Audyssey MultEQ XT32 room correction. The AV8801 did not pass the 30kHz signal because it down-sampled the high resolution test tone to the standard resolution of 48k samples/sec. The Marantz AV8801 is $3600 before the costs of having the unit upgraded by a Marantz certified Pro Installer using the Audyssey PC based tools and calibrated microphone. Sampling at 96k sample/sec requires twice the DSP resources for the real time filters used for room correction.


The Marantz AV8801 has three 4th generation Analog Devices ADSP21487 DSPs which provides as much digital signal processing capability as found in any Pre/Pro using Audyssey MultEQ XT or XT32 room correction that I know of. I expect many and perhaps all Audyssey MultEQ XT or XT32 enabled products, including those at higher price points, will also down-sample high-resolution material to 48k samples/sec when the room correction is enabled. The Sherwood R-972 with Trinnov also down-sampled high resolution material to 48k samples/sec.


Anthem’s lower cost MRX AVRs do down-sample to 48k Samples/Sec."


If this claim is accurate, this is not encouraging news for HD music aficionados, myself included. Does anyone with deep knowledge of the AV8801 or the Denon AVR-4520CI sister platform have any insights on this issue?
post #4932 of 11317
Quote:
Originally Posted by TL5 View Post

Are the Audyssey curves global, or can you change them per input?

What was the outcome response to this? Global correct? just on or off?
post #4933 of 11317
The AV8801's frequency response results shown in the review on hometheater.com are ambiguous. It claims
Quote:
Analog frequency response in Direct mode:
–0.19 dB at 10 Hz
–0.05 dB at 20 Hz
–0.01 dB at 20 kHz
–0.04 dB at 50 kHz

Analog frequency response with signal processing:
–1.23 dB at 10 Hz
–0.39 dB at 20 Hz
–0.21 dB at 20 kHz
–15.78 dB at 50 kHz
This implies some sound is getting through, which would not be the case if the audio were being downsampled. However, it doesn't actually say what "signal processing" is involved. Maybe David can clear this up.

See http://www.hometheater.com/content/marantz-av8801-surround-processor-amp-mm8077-amplifier-ht-labs-measures

(Note that David reviews for hometheater.com not hometheaterhifi.com)

another edit:
The "David" I was referring to was David Vaughn of homethater.com, which is affiliated with Home Theater Magazine, not David Rich of hometheaterhifi.com, which is the Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity Web site. I'm sorry about the confusion.
Edited by Selden Ball - 4/15/13 at 4:27am
post #4934 of 11317
Quote:
Originally Posted by denaliman View Post

What was the outcome response to this? Global correct? just on or off?

The Audyssey measurements and computed correction curves are global but the Audyssey settings are stored for each input sources. See page 123 of the AV8801 manual where it states: "MultEQ® XT 32”, “Dynamic EQ” and “Dynamic Volume” settings are stored for each input source.". That is, you could set the normal "Audyssey" curve for HDM1 and say "Audyssey Flat" for HDMI3, etc.
post #4935 of 11317
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam88 View Post

Does the Marantz AV8801 really down-sample high-resolution signals to 48KHz/sec when applying Audyssey MultEQ XT32?

According to this review published yesterday on Anthem's Room Correction system (ARC) by Dr. David A. Rich on Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity's website, the AV8801 down-samples high-resolution signals to 48KHz/sec when applying Audyssey MultEQ XT32.

Read the following quote taken from the review on the referenced website link:

"Notes on High Resolution Signal Processing:

The Anthem D2 and AVM Pre/Pro products that have ARC will process an incoming signal at its native rate up to 96k samples/second. Robert Kozel verified this by using a 30kHz test signal sampled at 96k samples/sec on an Anthem D2. He did the same test with the new Marantz AV8801 Pre/Pro that has Audyssey MultEQ XT32 room correction. The AV8801 did not pass the 30kHz signal because it down-sampled the high resolution test tone to the standard resolution of 48k samples/sec. The Marantz AV8801 is $3600 before the costs of having the unit upgraded by a Marantz certified Pro Installer using the Audyssey PC based tools and calibrated microphone. Sampling at 96k sample/sec requires twice the DSP resources for the real time filters used for room correction.


The Marantz AV8801 has three 4th generation Analog Devices ADSP21487 DSPs which provides as much digital signal processing capability as found in any Pre/Pro using Audyssey MultEQ XT or XT32 room correction that I know of. I expect many and perhaps all Audyssey MultEQ XT or XT32 enabled products, including those at higher price points, will also down-sample high-resolution material to 48k samples/sec when the room correction is enabled. The Sherwood R-972 with Trinnov also down-sampled high resolution material to 48k samples/sec.


Anthem’s lower cost MRX AVRs do down-sample to 48k Samples/Sec."


If this claim is accurate, this is not encouraging news for HD music aficionados, myself included. Does anyone with deep knowledge of the AV8801 or the Denon AVR-4520CI sister platform have any insights on this issue?

Interesting! does that include DTS HD Master / Dolby True HD/ and DSD when Audyssey is applied ?
post #4936 of 11317
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam88 View Post

...
If this claim is accurate, this is not encouraging news for HD music aficionados, myself included. Does anyone with deep knowledge of the AV8801 or the Denon AVR-4520CI sister platform have any insights on this issue?

Sounds like another reason - for high-quality stereo listening - to use the stereo mode with Audyssey set to "Audyssey Byp. L/R" - so that Audyssey is not used for your main speakers, only for the sub-woofer/bass correction.
post #4937 of 11317
Thanks. I guess there is no way to have two calibrations. For example when my Oppo is played through the 7.1 input I like to have the speakers levels calibrated one way manually for music with my SPL and say Audyssey for for movies. TV without actually having to change all the speaker settings all over for each input?. I ask because when I use the 7.1 from the oppo the the speaker levels are all out of sorts and the overall speaker level output drop considerably. The soundstage shifts heavily to the front on 7.1 analogue when I switch back to HDMI for multichannel the levels change to a more balanced mutlichannel loudness through all 7 channels..Also with the 7.1 analogue I cannot engage any of the sound modes.
post #4938 of 11317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill222 View Post

Sounds like another reason - for high-quality stereo listening - to use the stereo mode with Audyssey set to "Audyssey Byp. L/R" - so that Audyssey is not used for your main speakers, only for the sub-woofer/bass correction.

Nice to have options wink.gif if this is indeed the case. This is exactly what I use (bypass FL/FR) for hi res 2/ch usb with Audyssey and sub from time to time. But mostly no sub and the Oppo 105 in Pure direct! but even when Audyssey is fully engaged one would be hard pressed to tell the difference, if there is indeed one in the first place!
post #4939 of 11317
@WHOARU99

I've been out in the field so forgive my tardy reply. There are 8 Aragon amplifiers in my system. Five Palladium monos power each full range channel. One 4004 Mk II powers remote speakers and/or sound reinforcement units. Two 8008X3BB units power six sub channels with each driving a 2 ohm load. The full range channels are all <4 ohms. Aragon claimed that each of these amplifiers could deliver all the power available from a standard 120V circuit. After years of tripping breakers when the system was on 3 120V 20A lines I'd say their point is valid. This is why I chose 4 240V circuits. I was replacing the panel anyway so I put a 200A panel in and there are only a few slots left thanks to the A/V!

The sound improvement was obvious even at low level. Not a single breaker trip has occurred since. There have been no more hum and noise gremlins until the 8801 arrived. I'm getting a very slight 60 cycle harmonic through the 8801. I'll track it down and solve it. Zero noise is a requirement.

Cheers,
BH
post #4940 of 11317
My 8801 has been in the rack for over a week now but I've been gone a lot so I only have initial impressions. Focusing on stereo and 2.1 I find the sound to be very good. I don't think it quite matches the BDP-95 through the Soundstage but it's close. For those who have never been able to get that high quality 2 channel preamp out of their system, I'm not sure the 8801 will change this. As everything is HDMI now, I'll keep the 8801 in my system. I still haven't tested the 95 to the 8801 through XLR or 7.1 but that will happen soon. My first focus was to compare uncompressed 2 channel from the network and via HDMI from the Oppo to see how that compared to the Oppo analog outs to the Soundstage. My goal is to replace the Soundstage entirely.

Then we have Audessey. I've run a couple calibrations using a tripod for the mic. The results were very close to past measurements. Although I had a -12.0 on the left front, a quick examination proved that it was actually right on. A little close for comfort but workable.

I'll just throw this out there: I don't care for Audessey in the full range channels. Sometimes Audessey Flat sounds ok but I almost always prefer it defeated with stereo. Having said that it does an amazing job with the two sub towers. Is there a way to defeat Audessey for everything but the sub channels? I tried the Bypass L/R and it's better but still hear some strangeness through the center and surrounds. Also, I'm a noob with Audessey. This is my first real work with it other than helping set up a few receivers for friends and family. I will be reading the entire Audessey thread and playing with the system before I make a final judgement on it.

Where this leaves me is that the Soundstage isn't going anywhere. I'm either going to run the 8801 through the Zektor switcher and the Soundstage 5.1 inputs or I'm going to buy or build an XLR switcher and directly switch the inputs to each amplifier. It will probably be the latter since the 8801 is simply too good to feed its output through an unnecessary gain stage. Open up your 8801 and look at the signal path. It's a mass of circuit boards and the connectors in between. This is a massively complicated device and I think Marantz has done a remarkable job. If I'd never heard the Oppo through the Soundstage or an excellent 2 channel preamp I'd set the 8801 up and be content.

Side note: I'm chasing a 60Hz harmonic that I only get with the 8801. It's not very loud but I will resolve this problem. Even pulling all the HDMI connectors made no difference. I have a feeling there's a switching supply involved somewhere. Possibly a wall wart that doesn't get along with the 8801. I'll update when I sort it out.
post #4941 of 11317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

The AV8801's frequency response results shown in the review on hometheater.com are ambiguous. It claims
This implies some sound is getting through, which would not be the case if the audio were being downsampled. However, it doesn't actually say what "signal processing" is involved. Maybe David can clear this up.

See http://www.hometheater.com/content/marantz-av8801-surround-processor-amp-mm8077-amplifier-ht-labs-measures

(Note that David reviews for hometheater.com not hometheaterhifi.com)

I don't use any test equipment when I review...I use my ears. I assume that since the writer is putting it in print he must have tested for this and verified the results. That being said, I think the Marantz sounds outstanding and my ears can't detect that anything is missing. Granted, I'm 43 and don't hear as good as I did when I was 8, but that's the case with all of us. As we age, our hearing gets worse (getting old SUCKS!).
post #4942 of 11317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Granted, I'm 43 and don't hear as good as I did when I was 8, but that's the case with all of us. As we age, our hearing gets worse (getting old SUCKS!).

Greetings,

Glad to hear you admit you're an old man old buddy...biggrin.gif

Welcome to the other side. smile.gif


Regards,
post #4943 of 11317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

The AV8801's frequency response results shown in the review on hometheater.com are ambiguous. It claims
This implies some sound is getting through, which would not be the case if the audio were being downsampled. However, it doesn't actually say what "signal processing" is involved. Maybe David can clear this up.

See http://www.hometheater.com/content/marantz-av8801-surround-processor-amp-mm8077-amplifier-ht-labs-measures

(Note that David reviews for hometheater.com not hometheaterhifi.com)

I don't use any test equipment when I review...I use my ears. I assume that since the writer is putting it in print he must have tested for this and verified the results. That being said, I think the Marantz sounds outstanding and my ears can't detect that anything is missing. Granted, I'm 43 and don't hear as good as I did when I was 8, but that's the case with all of us. As we age, our hearing gets worse (getting old SUCKS!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Granted, I'm 43 and don't hear as good as I did when I was 8, but that's the case with all of us. As we age, our hearing gets worse (getting old SUCKS!).

Greetings,

Glad to hear you admit you're an old man old buddy...biggrin.gif

Welcome to the other side. smile.gif


Regards,

And not to mention: the natural diminishing of the hearing sense that (speaking of myself) was accelerated by the exposure of loud concert music and night clubs during my/our youth.
post #4944 of 11317
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post Hmm! My Oppo 105's bass is taunt and deep through the XLR's in both direct and pure direct modes!

That's good

post #4945 of 11317
Quote:
Originally Posted by erhurd View PostAnd not to mention: the natural diminishing of the hearing sense that (speaking of myself) was accelerated by the exposure of loud concert music and night clubs during my/our youth.

And bombs exploding  near you!

post #4946 of 11317
Not to mention my wife yelling at me for the last 23 years eek.gif
post #4947 of 11317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Not to mention my wife yelling at me for the last 23 years eek.gif

Only 23 years? Try an Irish wife for 32 years; yelling that you are already deaf ! :-)
post #4948 of 11317
Hey Dave,

Married at 20 and still married to the same woman 23 years later! Most of our generation never figured out how to do that. That includes me. I've enjoyed your professional reviews but I respect and admire anyone who makes that commitment and keeps it. Hats off to you sir.

BH
post #4949 of 11317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill222 View Post

If you have the 8801 plugged into a live, internet-capable network - then you can download the firmware. The 8801 has a 4-port 10/100 hub built into it. Make sure you plug port number 1 into your network...
Just got around to unboxing my 8801 and first thing powered it up and plugged an ethernet line directly from my HSI modem to port 1 of my 8801. The port light is lit and the 8801 recognizes it, but there's no update info available. Does this mean my unit has all the latest firmware updates? From what I've read in the manual, any updates needed will immediately show on the 8801 front monitor.
post #4950 of 11317
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam88 View Post

Does the Marantz AV8801 really down-sample high-resolution signals to 48KHz/sec when applying Audyssey MultEQ XT32?

According to this review published yesterday on Anthem's Room Correction system (ARC) by Dr. David A. Rich on Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity's website, the AV8801 down-samples high-resolution signals to 48KHz/sec when applying Audyssey MultEQ XT32.

Read the following quote taken from the review on the referenced website link:

"Notes on High Resolution Signal Processing:

The Anthem D2 and AVM Pre/Pro products that have ARC will process an incoming signal at its native rate up to 96k samples/second. Robert Kozel verified this by using a 30kHz test signal sampled at 96k samples/sec on an Anthem D2. He did the same test with the new Marantz AV8801 Pre/Pro that has Audyssey MultEQ XT32 room correction. The AV8801 did not pass the 30kHz signal because it down-sampled the high resolution test tone to the standard resolution of 48k samples/sec. The Marantz AV8801 is $3600 before the costs of having the unit upgraded by a Marantz certified Pro Installer using the Audyssey PC based tools and calibrated microphone. Sampling at 96k sample/sec requires twice the DSP resources for the real time filters used for room correction.


The Marantz AV8801 has three 4th generation Analog Devices ADSP21487 DSPs which provides as much digital signal processing capability as found in any Pre/Pro using Audyssey MultEQ XT or XT32 room correction that I know of. I expect many and perhaps all Audyssey MultEQ XT or XT32 enabled products, including those at higher price points, will also down-sample high-resolution material to 48k samples/sec when the room correction is enabled. The Sherwood R-972 with Trinnov also down-sampled high resolution material to 48k samples/sec.


Anthem’s lower cost MRX AVRs do down-sample to 48k Samples/Sec."


If this claim is accurate, this is not encouraging news for HD music aficionados, myself included. Does anyone with deep knowledge of the AV8801 or the Denon AVR-4520CI sister platform have any insights on this issue?

Hardly any Blu-Rays use 96KHz - according to http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/Stats.php less than 3 dozen Blu-Rays use 96KHz (almost all of the < 3 dozen are music related).
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