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Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 167

post #4981 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlxG View Post

After playing around with AV8801 various modes, my search for a separate 2 channel preamp has just ended. I'm completely satisfied with its 7.1 analog input section for playing 2-channel music. Based on my observations, I'm getting very dynamic sound, with pristine highs and without any hint of sounding thin or sterile in the midrange area. The analog section is very... very good and will resolve good or bad upstream electronics. So, if the music sounds bright or thin, try changing out the CD player or DAC to fine tune the sound to your liking.

My expectations were too high with Classe CP-800 analog preamp and it didn't blow me away. So, I've ended my search for an analog 2-channel preamp and decided to use AV8801 instead.


+ 1, after connecting my Oppo 105 directly to my Parasound Halo A21 and then comparing the analog inputs on the 8801 I came to the same conclusion cool.gif It's a killer preamp for 2 channel and I can say I truley have the best of both worlds finally biggrin.gif
post #4982 of 11283
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post

For the money the Marantz amps put out relatively little power. Roughly 100 watts all channels driven. You may want to look for a better amp for the $$ (ATI, Outlaw, etc.). You could literally double your power for the same amount of money.

-Brian

The biggest advantages of the Marantz are:
- Matches the AV8801 look
- Good quality sound and built
- Decent amplification for 7 channels

I am doubtful that an ATI or Outlaw will be an upgrade.
post #4983 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post

Audyssey's dirty little secret! Not many people know that Audyssey down-samples hi-bit signals.

-Brian

Brian

I was told this by someone hi up in Pioneer management. Considering the source, I wondered if it was only true in the lower forms of Audyssey or only the standard form built-in receivers.

Do you know if Audyssey Pro has the same limitation? Does Pro use the PC only for better measurements or does it also create the filters? if the PC also creates the filters, then that removes the processing power limitation for sampling rate, I would think.

btw - Pioneer MCACC does not down-rez wink.gif

but if the benefits outweigh the downsides, and Audyssey makes a big difference to the sound, I'm not sure how much it matters.
Edited by ss9001 - 4/13/13 at 3:32pm
post #4984 of 11283
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Brian

I was told this by someone hi up in Pioneer management. Considering the source, I wondered if it was only true in the lower forms of Audyssey or only the standard form built-in receivers.

Do you know if Audyssey Pro has the same limitation? Does Pro use the PC only for better measurements or does it also create the filters?

btw - Pioneer MCACC does not down-rez wink.gif

but if the benefits outweigh the downsides, and Audyssey makes a big difference to the sound, I'm not sure how much it matters.

I guess the current-gen chips can't handle high res sound with Audyssey processing at the same time?
post #4985 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

I am doubtful that an ATI or Outlaw will be an upgrade.

that depends on how efficient your speakers are. If running really inefficient speakers like Magnepans, doubling the power for the same money represents a good increase in performance plus huge increase in value.

I don't think you can make a generalized, blanket statement that it's not an upgrade. Personally, if I were to ever get an 8801, I would buy a 7 ch ATI or Outlaw long before the Marantz counterpart amp - unless I got the Marantz package deal then flipped the amp wink.gif nothing against the Marantz amp and for many it will be more than adequate, but it doesn't suit all needs. it certainly wouldn't be the best power choice for my speakers.
post #4986 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post

For the money the Marantz amps put out relatively little power. Roughly 100 watts all channels driven. You may want to look for a better amp for the $$ (ATI, Outlaw, etc.). You could literally double your power for the same amount of money.

-Brian

Thanks Brian. How about NAD power amp like the T975?
Im thinking it might add a fuller and weighty sound to AV8801 as I find the MM8807 kind of thin and bright.
post #4987 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlxG View Post

After playing around with AV8801 various modes, my search for a separate 2 channel preamp has just ended. I'm completely satisfied with its 7.1 analog input section for playing 2-channel music. Based on my observations, I'm getting very dynamic sound, with pristine highs and without any hint of sounding thin or sterile in the midrange area. The analog section is very... very good and will resolve good or bad upstream electronics. So, if the music sounds bright or thin, try changing out the CD player or DAC to fine tune the sound to your liking.

My expectations were too high with Classe CP-800 analog preamp and it didn't blow me away. So, I've ended my search for an analog 2-channel preamp and decided to use AV8801 instead.


+ 1, after connecting my Oppo 105 directly to my Parasound Halo A21 and then comparing the analog inputs on the 8801 I came to the same conclusion cool.gif It's a killer preamp for 2 channel and I can say I truley have the best of both worlds finally biggrin.gif

I'm in music heaven. biggrin.gif

I've just tried comparing Squeezebox Touch analog output through 7.1 analog input and digital coax output and discovered very similar results. After about 5th try, I think I'm getting slightly more air, slightly deeper sound stage with the same amount dynamics. It's the first time that I have experienced such a close result. I'll need to try the 7.1 section with Rega DAC.
post #4988 of 11283
Just got the 8801 and set up the Audyssey XT32.

Question:
I am not satisfied with the sub woofer level and the side speaker levels.

I can increase the subwoofer volume but the sides would have to be a 8801 speaker adjustment.

If I decrease the sides volume will that effect the overall Audyssey set up for all the other adjustments or cancel anything out?

thanks

Greg
post #4989 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by yankee14 View Post

Just got the 8801 and set up the Audyssey XT32.

Question:
I am not satisfied with the sub woofer level and the side speaker levels.

I can increase the subwoofer volume but the sides would have to be a 8801 speaker adjustment.

If I decrease the sides volume will that effect the overall Audyssey set up for all the other adjustments or cancel anything out?

thanks

Greg

Yes you could adjust the individual speaker setting in the AV8801.
It will not cancel the audyssey calibration settings...
I suggest also not to increase the subwoofer's volume in your subwoofer itself but instead increase it in the AV8801 speaker level adjustment.
post #4990 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by yankee14 View Post

...
If I decrease the sides volume will that effect the overall Audyssey set up for all the other adjustments or cancel anything out?

You won't harm/hurt/affect the Audyssey filters at all by changing the speaker/trim settings. And the filters are the most important part of Audyssey.

But you will be changing/altering how Audyssey works with Dynamic EQ. So - as long as don't want to use Dynamic EQ - or don't care that you're altering what Audyssey wants to do with Dynamic EQ - feel free to adjust the speaker levels. Personally - I never use Dynamic EQ. But I'm thinking of trying it out soon. Didn't like it on earlier versions of Audyssey, but I might as well give XT32 a chance.

Given that Dynamic EQ is already "adjusting" settings away from reference in order to make playback sound "better" - I say - yes, definitely - if you think it sounds even better with a few more adjustments, then make them.

EDIT - replaced "Dynamic Volume" with "Dynamic EQ" in above text, since "Dynamic EQ" is what I was actually talking about...
Edited by Bill222 - 4/14/13 at 7:11am
post #4991 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

I guess the current-gen chips can't handle high res sound with Audyssey processing at the same time?

Somehow I don't think that's the case, but I'm sure more is to come on this and a little finger pointing as well wink.gif
post #4992 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill222 View Post

You won't harm/hurt/affect the Audyssey filters at all by changing the speaker/trim settings. And the filters are the most important part of Audyssey.

But you will be changing/altering how Audyssey works with Dynamic Volume. So - as long as don't want to use Dynamic Volume - or don't care that you're altering what Audyssey wants to do with Dynamic Volume - feel free to adjust the speaker levels. Personally - I never use Dynamic Volume. But I'm thinking of trying it out soon. Didn't like it on earlier versions of Audyssey, but I might as well give XT32 a chance.

Given that Dynamic Volume is already "adjusting" settings away from reference in order to make playback sound "better" - I say - yes, definitely - if you think it sounds even better with a few more adjustments, then make them.

I always had Dynamic Volume on (Day mode) with my Denon AVP-A1HDCI, and I LOVED the way it sounded with it engaged. From TV shows to Blu-ray's, the sound was always just right. And it was very nice to be able to turn up the volume to hear dialog without worrying that the surround effects were going to overpower you. Sound was always kept in balance, without sounding dull. Dynamics were kept in tact, and surround effects always enveloping, while dialog remained easily understood. And I loved the fact that I never had to keep reaching for the remote during those loud action scenes. So basically it was set it up to where dialog was easy to hear, and then leave it there and revel in the awesome sound.smile.gif

I have Dynamic Volume on with the 8801 as well, I have it set to light mode. So far it's working great! It also seems to make things very easy on the ears, without sacrificing the quality or impact of the sound. And on mine I did raise the center channel level about 2 db, and raised the subwoofers about 6 db. And so far I really like the way it sounds.


Seth
post #4993 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill222 View Post


Given that Dynamic Volume is already "adjusting" settings away from reference in order to make playback sound "better" - I say - yes, definitely - if you think it sounds even better with a few more adjustments, then make them.

That would be Dyn EQ ....rather Dyn Volume is simply normalizing the volume.
post #4994 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

That would be Dyn EQ ....rather Dyn Volume is simply normalizing the volume.



I was wondering if the two weren't getting confused. At what volume do you think the Dyn EQ starts to flatten out? It sure does sound good at lower volumes.
post #4995 of 11283
Dyn EQ will continue to "boost" the bass/surround audio the more you lower the volume from 0db (eg. -20db) and has no impact at 0db and will continue to "decrease" the bass/surround audio the more you increase the volume above 0db (eg. +5db). The "Reference Level Offset" will further decrease the impact of Dyn EQ as you increase it from 0db, to 5db, to 10db, to 15db with 10db recommended especially for TV and music sources. On older model AVRs that have no "Reference Level Offset" but do have Dyn EQ, this same effect can be achieved by setting the "Source Level" setting to -10db which then requires you to raise the master volume +10db higher to achieve the same volume, thus fooling Dyn EQ into thinking the volume is actually much closer to 0db. smile.gif
post #4996 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Dyn EQ will continue to "boost" the bass/surround audio the more you lower the volume from 0db (eg. -20db) and has no impact at 0db and will continue to "decrease" the bass/surround audio the more you increase the volume above 0db (eg. +5db).



Ok I see, I misunderstood what it does then. I thought it just boosted the bass below 0db, not continue to decrease it above.
post #4997 of 11283
8801 crapped out this morning!! Well more of an issue. All was good for a couple weeks everything was working no problems. Then this morning I turn on the TV to watch the Formula One race and there is no picture. Definitely a HDMI issue. TV says no signal. Threw in cd on the oppo and changed to 7.1 and there was sound but no video and can't pull up menues except the TV menu. Disconnected the HDMI cable and reconnected and still nothing. Any suggestions or fix for this?
post #4998 of 11283
I assume you powered everything down and rebooted.
post #4999 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Brian

I was told this by someone hi up in Pioneer management. Considering the source, I wondered if it was only true in the lower forms of Audyssey or only the standard form built-in receivers.

Do you know if Audyssey Pro has the same limitation? Does Pro use the PC only for better measurements or does it also create the filters? if the PC also creates the filters, then that removes the processing power limitation for sampling rate, I would think.

btw - Pioneer MCACC does not down-rez wink.gif

but if the benefits outweigh the downsides, and Audyssey makes a big difference to the sound, I'm not sure how much it matters.


How much can one trust someone from a competitor?
Wouldn't it be a big "scandal" a long time ago since so many different manufacturers use Audyssey?
post #5000 of 11283
Yep. Powered down everything. Unplugged power cord. reinserted power coed and restarted everything 3 times so far. Have turned off and on the unit itself without unplugging at least 8 times.
post #5001 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by denaliman View Post

Yep. Powered down everything. Unplugged power cord. reinserted power coed and restarted everything 3 times so far. Have turned off and on the unit itself without unplugging at least 8 times.



I'm sure your running the latest firmware?
post #5002 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndersT2 View Post

How much can one trust someone from a competitor?
Wouldn't it be a big "scandal" a long time ago since so many different manufacturers use Audyssey?

I agree, that's why I said "consider the source". however, you now have a reputable reviewer in a very reputable review site devoted to technical discussion in a technically oriented review on the Anthem ARC system saying the exact same thing. if you read the Secrets ARC article, the author spells out how it was determined that the 8801's built-in non-Pro Audyssey down-samples to 48Khz and it's pretty convincing.

I also have read elsewhere that the down-sampling is real but I couldn't post links to any sources since it was 6 months ago when I found them...you might try the Audyseey & Audyssey Pro threads for more info because I know it's been discussed there. that's where I found the supporting evidence discussed.

as far as "scandal" is concerned, the poster above me calls it Audyssey's "dirty little secret". I think there's too much evidence not to believe it's true. But I think Audyssey Pro may not have the limitation since it's PC based calculations but I have no proof of that; some Pro experts will have to confirm what it does or doesn't do.
Edited by ss9001 - 4/14/13 at 7:33am
post #5003 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I'm sure your running the latest firmware?

No I did not do an update since i don't not have internet connection to the unit. However, it was working fine before.
post #5004 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by denaliman View Post

No I did not do an update since i don't not have internet connection to the unit. However, it was working fine before.



That would be the thing to do, even if you had to run a long etherenet cord to your modem/router. But I don't know how your going to do it with no onscreen display. You can't pull your Marantz menu up? Or do a hard reset, which I never had to do and not sure how to on the 8801.
Edited by comfynumb - 4/14/13 at 7:44am
post #5005 of 11283
As long as you have the front-display of the Marantz (the large display revealed by the drop-down door) - that's all you need in order to perform a firmware update. You can walk through the menus/make the necessary choices from that display.

It's not quite as easy as using the on-screen display, but it's not that bad either. If needed, I can post step-by-step directions to update firmware based on the text displayed on the front-screen's display.

I think the only confusing part is the final step. After you (finally) select "Update: Start" to start the firmware update, it gives you the typical "Do you really want to update the firmware? Yes/No" warning - but the warning is so abbreviated on the front-display that it simply shows up as "Update: No". You have to click on the left-arrow to change the "No" to a "Yes" - and then click enter for the update to begin.
post #5006 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

That would be the thing to do, even if you had to run a long etherenet cord to your modem/router. But I don't know how your going to do it with no onscreen display. You can't pull your Marantz menu up? Or do a hard reset, which I never had to do and not sure how to on the 8801.

Yes I can see the front display on the unit. I will need to get a 100 ft Cat5. UPDATE: I just unplugged all my HDMI cables, re-plugged them, removed the HDMI cable going to HDMI- port 1 into my Panny and put it in the Panny HDMI port 2 and now it works. Seems to be an issue the the HDMI-1 port on the Panny. Strange because it was running fine before on the HDMI input. Thanks to All for helping. I am hoping this doesn't turn into a common issue. The Panny and all my other components are up to date with firmware since they can use wireless connections.
post #5007 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by denaliman View Post

Yes I can see the front display on the unit. I will need to get a 100 ft Cat5. UPDATE: I just unplugged all my HDMI cables, re-plugged them, removed the HDMI cable going to HDMI- port 1 into my Panny and put it in the Panny HDMI port 2 and now it works. Seems to be an issue the the HDMI-1 port on the Panny. Strange because it was running fine before on the HDMI input. Thanks to All for helping. I am hoping this doesn't turn into a common issue. The Panny and all my other components are up to date with firmware since they can use wireless connections.

I should clarify.... switching out the HDMI to port 2 on the Panny was just the last step. Prior to that , after disconnecting all sources with hdmi and resetting those (oppo, sat reciever etc) and turning back on the 8801 I finally got audio, but no video. Went into the 8801 setting to make sure everything was set up correctly. Then I just changed a few inputs to incorrect settings, then changed them back to correct settings. I rebooted the system and put in a movie on the oppo. I got both audio and video..perfect!!...Not so fast... I switched to SAT and I had audio, but no video. Switched back to Oppo and recieved both audio and video. However, everytime i went back to SAT I did not have any video. That is when I switched the HDMI cables into the Panny. Rebooted everything again and that is when the issue was resolved. Lots of compatibility handshakes and stuff going on and not everyone was playing nice i guess.
post #5008 of 11283
Glad it's working. Do yourself a favor and do the firmware update as soon as you can smile.gif
post #5009 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

The biggest advantages of the Marantz are:
- Matches the AV8801 look
- Good quality sound and built
- Decent amplification for 7 channels

I am doubtful that an ATI or Outlaw will be an upgrade.

The ATI AT2005/7 is fully balanced amplifier @ 200 w/ch in 8 ohms and 300 w/ch into 4 ohms. It's made in the USA with a *transferable* seven year warranty. Spec are also very impressive with 120db s/n.

I wouldn't mind betting that it will have better resale value than the Marantz with it's more conventional box shape and transferable warranty. Fully balanced amps are usually very expensive as they require twice the parts.

Now having said that, I bet side by side at moderate levels (not clipping the Marantz) you'd be hard pressed to hear the difference in sound.

I went with ATI due to the s/n spec. My room is ultra quite and my speakers are 102db/w/m and there's 11 of them.

Emotiva amps also seem like a great value. Marantz is a little over priced, but then again Marantz is not an ID company.
post #5010 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndersT2 View Post

Wouldn't it be a big "scandal" a long time ago since so many different manufacturers use Audyssey?

Were you ever told otherwise?  ;-)

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