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Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 182

post #5431 of 11298
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Yes playing music from a hard drive is something I haven't done much of, or streaming music for that matter, at least through my HT set up. So I noticed a lot of the guys using Foobar or JR Rivers, is there an advantage to these quality wise. And is there a better way to store my CD rips than a hard drive, as far as quality goes, or doesn't it matter?

I use DBPowerAmp to rip all my CD's into FLAC. I could never detect one bit of difference between WAV or FLAC ripped files and we shouldn't. Because FLAC is just like a ZIP file, once you unzip it you'll get all of the original data/music content. If someone can hear the difference, then it must be their PC configuration such Windows drivers, vs WASAPI, etc.

Plus, FLAC will retain all of the tagged info such as artist and song names, plus all of the associated album artwork for each song. Once you've ripped your entire library, you can back it up on any hard drive without worrying about bit perfect copying. I use Windows 8... and refuse to migrate to Mac, so I can't help anyone with Mac related questions.

I beleive it's a playback methods which may impact the sound quality. I know it sounds crazy, but I can definitely hear the differences between PC based FLAC decoding within the LMS server software and the FLAC decoding performed by SB Touch. Due to the proximity of my PC (75 feet away), I'm using Logitech's LMS to stream the LAN packets to SB Touch and don't have to deal with USB cables, ASync USB to SPDIF or other nonsense and also allows me to avoid messing around with Foobar or JR River in this situation.

At the end of the day, only you can tell which methods will sound best to you. biggrin.gif
post #5432 of 11298
I
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

So you have your hard drive plugged into your Oppo and play your files that way Rich?

I have an SSD plugged in, a NAS, and a PC connected via the BDP 105 USB DAC. I have tested them all. I use J River via the USB with their IPad app. Iike J River with kernel streaming.

- Rich
Edited by RichB - 5/5/13 at 1:26pm
post #5433 of 11298
Great thanks for the info guys! smile.gif
post #5434 of 11298
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlxG View Post


Kal, I don't want to misinterpret Comfynumb's question... I think he's asking for the best approach for streaming music through AV8801. I was hopping that you would share your thoughts on this subject. smile.gif

Since my interest is very heavily weighted towards MCH music and the 8801 does not stream MCH, I use my Oppo player as the interface.  I either use the Oppo to grab files off the network via SMB or I use jRiver MC18 to push the files to the Oppo (using an iPad for control).  I have also used the exaSound e18 mch DAC for this but that requires local storage/control.

post #5435 of 11298
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Great thanks for the info guys! smile.gif

My friend has just told me that Jriver doesn't support WASAPI driver... You may want to investigate if this issue has been resolved. If true, then you're you're not going to hear the music at a 100% sound quality. Windows driver really sucks.
post #5436 of 11298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Since my interest is very heavily weighted towards MCH music and the 8801 does not stream MCH, I use my Oppo player as the interface.  I either use the Oppo to grab files off the network via SMB or I use jRiver MC18 to push the files to the Oppo (using an iPad for control).  I have also used the exaSound e18 mch DAC for this but that requires local storage/control.

Thanks Kal, is Oppo user interface friendly to use?
post #5437 of 11298
Are most of you with the Oppo BDP-105 using the 8801 or the Oppo BDP-105 and just passing it through the 8801? Just wondering about the 3D content and how it works since I am new to the 3D world and just want to make sure I get the nest picture.
post #5438 of 11298
Jriver's latest version supports waspi.
post #5439 of 11298
What's the recommendation?

To use JRiver to play through an Oppo using the Oppo as the Sound Card for the HTPC (USB from HTPC to the Oppo)?

Or to use JRiver to send FLAC over the network to the Oppo, using the Oppo as a media browser/player (ethernet connecting the HTPC to the Oppo)?

I have FLAC files waiting to play. I have an Oppo-105, (an AV8801, of course), and an HTPC all on the same network. Awaiting recommendation on the "best" way to deliver FLAC files from the HTPC to the Oppo for playback by the Oppo through the AV8801.
post #5440 of 11298
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlxG View Post


Thanks Kal, is Oppo user interface friendly to use?

Yes.  Friendly but dumb.  You really need to have your files well organized.  Nothing like the better music server interfaces.

post #5441 of 11298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill222 View Post

What's the recommendation?

To use JRiver to play through an Oppo using the Oppo as the Sound Card for the HTPC (USB from HTPC to the Oppo)?

Or to use JRiver to send FLAC over the network to the Oppo, using the Oppo as a media browser/player (ethernet connecting the HTPC to the Oppo)?

I have FLAC files waiting to play. I have an Oppo-105, (an AV8801, of course), and an HTPC all on the same network. Awaiting recommendation on the "best" way to deliver FLAC files from the HTPC to the Oppo for playback by the Oppo through the AV8801.

If the PC is close to the Oppo and your FLAC is 2 channel, the USB is the best because you can use WASAPI or Kernel streaming.
The USB DAC supports gapless

It is not an either or. You can do both with J River by selecting a different device.

- Rich
post #5442 of 11298
"What's the recommendation?

To use JRiver to play through an Oppo using the Oppo as the Sound Card for the HTPC (USB from HTPC to the Oppo)?

Or to use JRiver to send FLAC over the network to the Oppo, using the Oppo as a media browser/player (ethernet connecting the HTPC to the Oppo)?

I have FLAC files waiting to play. I have an Oppo-105, (an AV8801, of course), and an HTPC all on the same network. Awaiting recommendation on the "best" way to deliver FLAC files from the HTPC to the Oppo for playback by the Oppo through the AV8801."


Keeping the computer in another room, flac to the Oppo will work fine . Kal described this in an earlier post. JR Rivervand its ipad JRemote work well for flac.
post #5443 of 11298
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlxG View Post

My friend has just told me that Jriver doesn't support WASAPI driver... You may want to investigate if this issue has been resolved. If true, then you're you're not going to hear the music at a 100% sound quality. Windows driver really sucks.

Your friend is giving you bad information. I have used foobar, media monkey, ITunes, J river and the Marantz itself.

You say you have a large library, not quite sure what large is.

Marantz GUI and speed of scrolling is terrible in FLAC files. Marantz spits up on multichannel flac files. I stopped using the Marantz for directly reading FLACS for these reasons.

iTunes is just plain horrible. Period.

Foobar and monkey both played files just as well as J River. WASAPI event style, etc. However, if indeed you have a LARGE library J River has no equal. The database style functions, the advanced tagging, the iPad support, the web style interface, the programming language inside J River and the server functions all put J River head and shoulders above the others. There are any number of programs that can play a flac. A few more that can play a flac through WASAPI event style. J River is the software for large libraries.
post #5444 of 11298
Does anyone know a good dealer to buy the 8801 from?
post #5445 of 11298
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlc828 View Post

Does anyone know a good dealer to buy the 8801 from?

http://avscience.com
post #5446 of 11298
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHF View Post

Your friend is giving you bad information. I have used foobar, media monkey, ITunes, J river and the Marantz itself.

You say you have a large library, not quite sure what large is.

Marantz GUI and speed of scrolling is terrible in FLAC files. Marantz spits up on multichannel flac files. I stopped using the Marantz for directly reading FLACS for these reasons.

iTunes is just plain horrible. Period.

Foobar and monkey both played files just as well as J River. WASAPI event style, etc. However, if indeed you have a LARGE library J River has no equal. The database style functions, the advanced tagging, the iPad support, the web style interface, the programming language inside J River and the server functions all put J River head and shoulders above the others. There are any number of programs that can play a flac. A few more that can play a flac through WASAPI event style. J River is the software for large libraries.

My library is getting close to 3TB. Since I use SB Touch, my LMS server delivers FLAC to PCM LAN packets to it... and this setup just works. Ipeng has an excellent user interface, so there no reason for me to use Foobar or J River.

My friend was plying with J River and gave-up using it because the older version didn't have the WASAPI support, so he switched to SB Touch and has not followed-up on J River recent developments.
post #5447 of 11298
Yes IPeng is very good. JR River remote is as well. The Logitech LMS server is not as versatile as the Library Server of MC 18 JR River.

You would not be using the waspi driver if you push files via JR River DLNA server.

You could use Your computer and JR Rover or Foobar to drive the Marantz directly using waspi. I prefer keeping my computer on another floor from my audio system.

I use the JR River system to up scale my flac files to 88khz 24 bit and send them to my hard wired Ethernet Oppo . I use JR Remote with no issues.

The Oppo feeds my pre/pro (currently a 80.2) with no issues. I also down load easily from HD Tracks 96 kHz 24 bit files. These can sent to the Oppo as well with proper settings in the library server.

Sound for stereoviscquite good.

I think you would need to set up a SMB server as Kal has for multichannel but I am not sure .
post #5448 of 11298
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlc828 View Post

Does anyone know a good dealer to buy the 8801 from?

Here's where I got mine from - Hi-Fi Heaven.net, (an authorized Marantz dealer).
They take trade ins and will give a decent value for them toward reducing that $3,600 price tag - try 'em!:
http://hifiheaven.net/store/Products/Home-Theater-Electronics/Marantz-AV8801-AV-11.2-Channel-Preamplifier-processor
post #5449 of 11298
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

Yes IPeng is very good. JR River remote is as well. The Logitech LMS server is not as versatile as the Library Server of MC 18 JR River.

You would not be using the waspi driver if you push files via JR River DLNA server.

You could use Your computer and JR Rover or Foobar to drive the Marantz directly using waspi. I prefer keeping my computer on another floor from my audio system.

I use the JR River system to up scale my flac files to 88khz 24 bit and send them to my hard wired Ethernet Oppo . I use JR Remote with no issues.

The Oppo feeds my pre/pro (currently a 80.2) with no issues. I also down load easily from HD Tracks 96 kHz 24 bit files. These can sent to the Oppo as well with proper settings in the library server.

Sound for stereoviscquite good.

I think you would need to set up a SMB server as Kal has for multichannel but I am not sure .

Since I don't have Oppo or J River, have you compare it's sound quality to CD player?

My SB Touch sounds as good if not better than my old Sony CD player which was my work horse for many years.
post #5450 of 11298
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlxG View Post


Since I don't have Oppo or J River, have you compare it's sound quality to CD player?

My SB Touch sounds as good if not better than my old Sony CD player which was my work horse for many years. 

The jRiver/Oppo combo (or streaming via the Oppo, alone) sounds as good if not better than my old SBT. smile.gif

post #5451 of 11298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

The jRiver/Oppo combo (or streaming via the Oppo, alone) 
sounds as good if not better than my old

 
SBT. 
smile.gif

Thanks for comments Kal. Since Rega RAC sounded much better than my SBT, I will try to get my hands on Oppo 105 and Rega to compare them at the same time.
post #5452 of 11298
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

I use jr rivers dlna server to send original files to my Oppo via my home network. You can also send uncompressed files and upscale in the PC.
If the dac in the marantz is up to the task you could send files directly to it with this method.
With a program called whitebear, JR River, can send files via its library server to the touch.

One can control the files that are streamed on a ipad or iphone using JRemote which is an app.

I might want to try this then. So I have no oppo right now, could i still go directly from Jriver to the 8801 without issue? How well does the upconverting do on the Jriver to take lower quality songs and really improve on them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHF View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlxG View Post

My friend has just told me that Jriver doesn't support WASAPI driver... You may want to investigate if this issue has been resolved. If true, then you're you're not going to hear the music at a 100% sound quality. Windows driver really sucks.

Your friend is giving you bad information. I have used foobar, media monkey, ITunes, J river and the Marantz itself.

You say you have a large library, not quite sure what large is.

Marantz GUI and speed of scrolling is terrible in FLAC files. Marantz spits up on multichannel flac files. I stopped using the Marantz for directly reading FLACS for these reasons.

iTunes is just plain horrible. Period.

Foobar and monkey both played files just as well as J River. WASAPI event style, etc. However, if indeed you have a LARGE library J River has no equal. The database style functions, the advanced tagging, the iPad support, the web style interface, the programming language inside J River and the server functions all put J River head and shoulders above the others. There are any number of programs that can play a flac. A few more that can play a flac through WASAPI event style. J River is the software for large libraries.

What don't you like about Itunes?

Also, assuming my entire physical library is located under Itunes' Music folder directory and I were to convert to Jriver, how daunting of a task would it be to re-classify everything. I have done quite well limiting my genre's to broad terms and most of my music is quite well labeled and even ranked in Itunes as it stands now. I wouldn't want to start all over with 10,000 tracks doing this again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

Yes IPeng is very good. JR River remote is as well. The Logitech LMS server is not as versatile as the Library Server of MC 18 JR River.

You would not be using the waspi driver if you push files via JR River DLNA server.

You could use Your computer and JR Rover or Foobar to drive the Marantz directly using waspi. I prefer keeping my computer on another floor from my audio system.

I use the JR River system to up scale my flac files to 88khz 24 bit and send them to my hard wired Ethernet Oppo . I use JR Remote with no issues.

The Oppo feeds my pre/pro (currently a 80.2) with no issues. I also down load easily from HD Tracks 96 kHz 24 bit files. These can sent to the Oppo as well with proper settings in the library server.

Sound for stereoviscquite good.

I think you would need to set up a SMB server as Kal has for multichannel but I am not sure .

Sounds like you are doing what I am trying to do. My library is on my laptop, which is mobile and goes wherever I go, so I would like to have it to where I could get the best quality (Or even upscaled for better quality) from my laptop library (itunes) to my marantz. Using the Jriver iphone app then I could control what I was listening to remotely as well. I have a denon 3d BD player that I might be able to use but would rather go directly from Jriver to some wireless input (Network input??) on the Marantz and still get flac/high quality this way.

So I guess my certain needs are:

1) laptop has to stay mobile (unwired)
2) Have to have iphone app to control
3) Want files to stream (somehow) to the marantz directly from the PC in their highest/upconverted quality.

I think I am seeing that I can do all three of these with Jriver but I don't know what SMB or Waspi or all those other things mean so please tell me if I have it all right!!!!

Thanks
post #5453 of 11298
I dislike ITunes for several reasons. Largely GUI - I think it is terrible - and the DRM. I have not played with it recently to even bother to see if I can use WASAPI.

WASAPI, in simple terms, bypasses the windows sound drivers. Windows sound drivers are what give you a ding when your e mail comes in -etc. For high quality audio - you want to bypass the windows sound drivers and shoot the sound direct to the DAC or preamp.

DLNA - not good either. Dumbs down the tagging and limits the audio to no WASAPI - so you are using the internal sound drivers in windows. J River does not require DLNA - just point it to your music and let it go.

In terms of changing from iTunes to J River - just point J RIver to your iTunes music directory and off you go.

There are all kinds of arguments about SQ from this software or that - but you will immediately hear a difference on the 8801 between WASAPI and Direct sound from Windows. Right away.
post #5454 of 11298
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHF View Post

I dislike ITunes for several reasons. Largely GUI - I think it is terrible - and the DRM. I have not played with it recently to even bother to see if I can use WASAPI.

WASAPI, in simple terms, bypasses the windows sound drivers. Windows sound drivers are what give you a ding when your e mail comes in -etc. For high quality audio - you want to bypass the windows sound drivers and shoot the sound direct to the DAC or preamp.

DLNA - not good either. Dumbs down the tagging and limits the audio to no WASAPI - so you are using the internal sound drivers in windows. J River does not require DLNA - just point it to your music and let it go.

In terms of changing from iTunes to J River - just point J RIver to your iTunes music directory and off you go.

There are all kinds of arguments about SQ from this software or that - but you will immediately hear a difference on the 8801 between WASAPI and Direct sound from Windows. Right away.

Interesting.
I did not know that windows internal sound drivers were used for DLNA.

I think DLNA is the only choice for direct to the AV8801.

I use Kernel Streaming from J River to the 105's USB DAC. I like it better than WASAPI Event driver.

- Rich
post #5455 of 11298
Ok so I know this is getting a little OT, but is WASAPI something that comes with Jriver or do I download it somewhere else? What is DRM btw? I am not sure if I am getting direct sound from windows right now either. Via the "Network" source on the 8801, it simply recognizes music playing via Itunes and pulls it into the avr. It doesnt make any of the other MS sounds, just the music at this point. I think I want to try Jriver regardless though. The only thing I will really miss using Itunes and connecting to my appletv's around the house for whole-home audio...
post #5456 of 11298
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Ok so I know this is getting a little OT, but is WASAPI something that comes with Jriver or do I download it somewhere else? What is DRM btw? I am not sure if I am getting direct sound from windows right now either. Via the "Network" source on the 8801, it simply recognizes music playing via Itunes and pulls it into the avr. It doesnt make any of the other MS sounds, just the music at this point. I think I want to try Jriver regardless though. The only thing I will really miss using Itunes and connecting to my appletv's around the house for whole-home audio...

WASAPI is a windows interface. I have J River and Foobar and both support WASAPI, Kernel Streaming, and other sound drivers.

- Rich
post #5457 of 11298
So assuming I get Foobar or Jriver, could I then start playing music in one of the two, and hit the network button on the 8801 and it would pull the music from the network onto the marantz just like it is currently doing with Itunes?
post #5458 of 11298
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Interesting.
I did not know that windows internal sound drivers were used for DLNA.

I think DLNA is the only choice for direct to the AV8801.

I use Kernel Streaming from J River to the 105's USB DAC. I like it better than WASAPI Event driver.

- Rich

Rich, have you tried comparing sound difference between LAN and USB streaming into 105?

It's my understanding that Oppo has an Asynchronous USB capability, so in theory it should deliver fairly good result. What can be expected from the LAN based streaming?
post #5459 of 11298
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlxG View Post

Rich, have you tried comparing sound difference between LAN and USB streaming into 105?

It's my understanding that Oppo has an Asynchronous USB capability, so in theory it should deliver fairly good result. What can be expected from the LAN based streaming?

Yes, I have tried them all.
I prefer the USB with Kernel Streaming that sounds refined and nicely balanced.
USB streaming is also gapless with virtually no time between songs.

It is not quite the same as playing the CD or playing via the Oppo directly browsing the files (which I find indistinguishable).

WASAPI event driver sound a bit brighter than the above and also sound excellent.
It is very easy to switch the drivers and do comparisons so you can pick your favorite.

- Rich
post #5460 of 11298
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