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Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 224

post #6691 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

There are some idiosyncracies in the 8801. Namely, changes to the sound when changing from even Pure Direct to Direct. Nevermind engaging signal processing.

I have not heard LPCM over HDMI that compares to the analog ins connected to the BDP-105.
Many Anthem users say that the D2V does, but I have never considered this product because it is so damned ugly. All thos silver buttons, what for? Zero WAF smile.gif

I would love Classe performance in a 3K product. From Secrets of Home Theater:
About 5 years ago, I modded an Azentech sound card with LM4562 OpAms and bigger Caps. It sounded fantastic. So, I am not sure this is really about cost since Marantz and many large Electonic manufacturers use Toroidal power supples and other top quality parts. DACs and ICs are relatively cheap. I really think processors have focues on feature count so they can get logos on the box.

It bugs me that changing the video settings changes the sound of the 8801. This is a needless design issue. The BDP-105 is equal parts a video and audio product and altering the video processing never affects the sound. The other problem is the heat.

The 8801 is a very good processor that I feel is better than my old Onkyo 5507.
However, if a processor comes out that, runs cooler, handles HDMI LPCM better, and has impecable analog audio handling, then I'll certainly take a look.

The more Processors that enter the market the better they will all get.

- Rich



What video changes have you made that change the sound Rich? Has anyone else noticed this?
post #6692 of 11283
I'm getting conflicting stories from reliable sources as far as the 8801 and high res go. I'm hearing that Audyssey down samples high res to 48Hz and I'm hearing it's the 8801. Again I'm not hearing a quality issue I just want to know for sure. I think I'm going to try pose this question to Audyssey and wondering if they are hard to get ahold of?
post #6693 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

What video changes have you made that change the sound Rich? Has anyone else noticed this?

Right now, I am running analog in with Pure Direct.
Auto Lip-Sync: Off
HDMI Pass-through: Off
HDMI Control: Off
Video Mode: Auto
Video Conversion: On
i/p Scaler: Off

I have listened carefully to piano music and the most striking change is turning Video Conversion ON/OFF.
I can hear more decay and harmonics with it ON. Go figure.

You can use the Web controller Video page to adjust the settings in real time in pure direct mode if you power on in that mode or switch out of Pure Direct, refresh the page, and they go back into Pure Direct.
Changing the settings from the Menu works but you have the exit the video setup screen for the change to take effect. If there is not interruption of the sound, the change has not taken place.

- Rich
post #6694 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I'm getting conflicting stories from reliable sources as far as the 8801 and high res go. I'm hearing that Audyssey down samples high res to 48Hz and I'm hearing it's the 8801. Again I'm not hearing a quality issue I just want to know for sure. I think I'm going to try pose this question to Audyssey and wondering if they are hard to get ahold of?

Kal and others have said that there is not enough DSP power to maintian 24/96.

Personally, I do not use processing but have found that passing the original format (especially on a PC)without changing the sampling or bit-depth seems to produce the best results.

- Rich
post #6695 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Right now, I am running analog in with Pure Direct.
Auto Lip-Sync: Off
HDMI Pass-through: Off
HDMI Control: Off
Video Mode: Auto
Video Conversion: On
i/p Scaler: Off

I have listened carefully to piano music and the most striking change is turning Video Conversion ON/OFF.
I can hear more decay and harmonics with it ON. Go figure.

You can use the Web controller Video page to adjust the settings in real time in pure direct mode if you power on in that mode or switch out of Pure Direct, refresh the page, and they go back into Pure Direct.
Changing the settings from the Menu works but you have the exit the video setup screen for the change to take effect. If there is not interruption of the sound, the change has not taken place.

- Rich



I guess that's why I never noticed it I'm using HDMI but I'm going to mess with the video settings later.
post #6696 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I'm getting conflicting stories from reliable sources as far as the 8801 and high res go. I'm hearing that Audyssey down samples high res to 48Hz and I'm hearing it's the 8801. Again I'm not hearing a quality issue I just want to know for sure. I think I'm going to try pose this question to Audyssey and wondering if they are hard to get ahold of?


Edit: I did pose this question to Audyssey support, so we'll see what they say. Just curious smile.gif
I did just run across an article an article that does state Audyssey can work at higher bit rates, but it's the DSP's that are limiting it to 48Khz. +1 for Kal he already knew this and I should know better than to doubt him biggrin.gif
Edited by comfynumb - 7/9/13 at 9:10am
post #6697 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Right now, I am running analog in with Pure Direct.
Auto Lip-Sync: Off
HDMI Pass-through: Off
HDMI Control: Off
Video Mode: Auto
Video Conversion: On
i/p Scaler: Off

I have listened carefully to piano music and the most striking change is turning Video Conversion ON/OFF.
I can hear more decay and harmonics with it ON. Go figure.

You can use the Web controller Video page to adjust the settings in real time in pure direct mode if you power on in that mode or switch out of Pure Direct, refresh the page, and they go back into Pure Direct.
Changing the settings from the Menu works but you have the exit the video setup screen for the change to take effect. If there is not interruption of the sound, the change has not taken place.

- Rich

Have you found any combination to work better with HDMI audio input?

If so, please share.
post #6698 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Have you found any combination to work better with HDMI audio input?

If so, please share.

These are the default settings so I expect most use them anyway.
It is probably not an issue if you use Audyssey or anyting besides Pure Direct.

I will give a listen tonight.

- Rich
post #6699 of 11283
I installed my new 8801 & Oppo BDP-103 a few weeks ago. I'm bit streaming into the 8801; everything sounds great but twice so far I have lost audio. The first time was right in a movie (Blu-ray of Saving Private Ryan), where I backed up to the beginning of the chapter to regain the audio. The 2nd time happened last night when I started Jurassic Park, had no audio and fixed it by switching to the Spanish track then back to English on the Oppo's audio selection menu. I had video both times I lost audio. Is this an 8801 issue, an Oppo issue, or a situation where they don't play well together? Anything I should look for as far as settings go?

Thanks!
post #6700 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Off-topic, but if Kal doesn't mind I'd be curious to know a few examples where a multi-channel mix of a 60s-70s rock album bests the stereo (or mono). I bring this up because I thought I recalled reading that he often doesn't find stereo engaging.

I don't find 60s-70s rock engaging, so I cannot say.

post #6701 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post


Edit: I did pose this question to Audyssey support, so we'll see what they say. Just curious smile.gif
I did just run across an article an article that does state Audyssey can work at higher bit rates, but it's the DSP's that are limiting it to 48Khz. +1 for Kal he already knew this and I should know better than to doubt him biggrin.gif

I got it from Chris at Audyssey and it was confirmed by Marantz.

post #6702 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by TL5 View Post

I installed my new 8801 & Oppo BDP-103 a few weeks ago. I'm bit streaming into the 8801; everything sounds great but twice so far I have lost audio. The first time was right in a movie (Blu-ray of Saving Private Ryan), where I backed up to the beginning of the chapter to regain the audio. The 2nd time happened last night when I started Jurassic Park, had no audio and fixed it by switching to the Spanish track then back to English on the Oppo's audio selection menu. I had video both times I lost audio. Is this an 8801 issue, an Oppo issue, or a situation where they don't play well together? Anything I should look for as far as settings go?

Thanks!

I bitstream from my 105 and have never have one drop out wink.gif
post #6703 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I got it from Chris at Audyssey and it was confirmed by Marantz.

Kal, does this apply to the "bypass FR/FL" as well when Audyssey is engaged ?
post #6704 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by TL5 View Post

I installed my new 8801 & Oppo BDP-103 a few weeks ago. I'm bit streaming into the 8801; everything sounds great but twice so far I have lost audio. The first time was right in a movie (Blu-ray of Saving Private Ryan), where I backed up to the beginning of the chapter to regain the audio. The 2nd time happened last night when I started Jurassic Park, had no audio and fixed it by switching to the Spanish track then back to English on the Oppo's audio selection menu. I had video both times I lost audio. Is this an 8801 issue, an Oppo issue, or a situation where they don't play well together? Anything I should look for as far as settings go?

Thanks!



Congrats and welcome to the 8801 thread smile.gif I haven't heard of anyone having this problem before. Are you hooked up through HDMI? Probably the first thing to try is changing the cable because there is no compatibility problems with the Oppo. It almost sounds like the Oppo. I know a lot of people don't like the disc cleaners with the brushes on them but I've had good luck with them and wouldn't be afraid to run it through the Oppo. I know you said it's knew but maybe it picked up a piece of dust. Let us know how your make out.
post #6705 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Have you found any combination to work better with HDMI audio input?

If so, please share.

With the HDMI input Pure Direct, I find the similar results:

Video Mode: Auto
Video Conversion: ON

Yields the a brighter sound with more decay.

Video Mode: Game
Video Conversion: OFF

Damps down the high end a bit.

- Rich
post #6706 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post


Kal, does this apply to the "bypass FR/FL" as well when Audyssey is engaged ?

I do not know.

post #6707 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by TL5 View Post

I installed my new 8801 & Oppo BDP-103 a few weeks ago. I'm bit streaming into the 8801; everything sounds great but twice so far I have lost audio. The first time was right in a movie (Blu-ray of Saving Private Ryan), where I backed up to the beginning of the chapter to regain the audio. The 2nd time happened last night when I started Jurassic Park, had no audio and fixed it by switching to the Spanish track then back to English on the Oppo's audio selection menu. I had video both times I lost audio. Is this an 8801 issue, an Oppo issue, or a situation where they don't play well together? Anything I should look for as far as settings go?
Thanks!

Check out the Oppo 103 owners thread - that thing looks REALLY 'buggy' to me if the repetitive postings and glitches reported there are any indication.
I was toying with the idea of getting a '103 myself, but am now having BIG second thoughts.
So if I'd have to bet, I'd bet that the '103 is the problem child in your Pre-pro/BD relationship.
Hopefully (yet another) future Oppo firmware update for that unit will finally cure everything that's 'buggy' about it...good luck!

(Guess I'll keep my Yammy S2900 another year or two! rolleyes.gif).
post #6708 of 11283
^^ I wouldn't think that would be the case my 93 has been bug free since day one. I was actually running the early release FW up until about four months ago. It has froze up maybe two times while on my network and I think I had to unplug it once for that reason. Either way I'm waiting for a 4K physical media before I upgrade, which looks like could be soon.
post #6709 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I agree smile.gif IYO what is your best sounding disc?

Most of my Sheffield Lab, Chandos, Chesky, RR and even Telarc CDs are good. For one of the best sounding violin concerto, try this one:

http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/us/cat/single?PRODUCT_NR=4748742

It is a hybrid, and the CD layer sounds just as good as the SACD layer. IMO, mastering recording really has more impact on sound quality than the format but it is likely that there are more good mastering/recording SACD/DVDA discs than CDs.
post #6710 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

You're making a very large assumption that we're all delusional.

Most if not all of us understand and expect a prepro costing twice as much is going to sound better. Who in their right mind wouldn't expect that?

What the 8801 brings to the table is a very good sound without any operational issues at a price point that we are willing to spend.

I expect that too but not sure if a $7200 unit will always sound better than a $3600 unit due to the limitations of our (or at least most of us) ability to perceive the difference audibly.
post #6711 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Norseman View Post

Check out the Oppo 103 owners thread - that thing looks REALLY 'buggy' to me if the repetitive postings and glitches reported there are any indication.
I was toying with the idea of getting a '103 myself, but am now having BIG second thoughts.
So if I'd have to bet, I'd bet that the '103 is the problem child in your Pre-pro/BD relationship.
Hopefully (yet another) future Oppo firmware update for that unit will finally cure everything that's 'buggy' about it...good luck!

(Guess I'll keep my Yammy S2900 another year or two! rolleyes.gif).

I posted no dropouts on my 105/ 8801 setup via bitstream , and as a matter of fact, on my end its the best performing hdmi setup I've experienced and in some ways has proven just as reliable as any legacy connections from times past. This has been solid performing combo for me since mid Dec 2012.

Oh and as a side note you don't know what your missing from Oppo 103 or 105 wink.gif
post #6712 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

With the HDMI input Pure Direct, I find the similar results:

Video Mode: Auto
Video Conversion: ON

Yields the a brighter sound with more decay.

Video Mode: Game
Video Conversion: OFF

Damps down the high end a bit.

- Rich

Thanks Rich !!!
post #6713 of 11283
Re: 96khz to 48 kHz down sampling .

If I choose the option for no audyssey for the L/R speakers, and I feed a 7.1 96Khz signal, do the fronts get 96 KHz and the rest of the system get 48Kz?

What happens to the sub with the fronts and then the rest of the system?
post #6714 of 11283
Just join the 8801 club biggrin.gif

Did a quick check on the 8801 SNR and noticed the RCA audio in has a hissing through the speaker tweeter at 0 db volume but it's dead silent with the HDMI from the bluray player. Anyone has tried this?

I am still waiting my new XLR output dac so i can try out the XLR audio in to see if that gives a quieter background at 0 db.

But overall, i am happy with the sound of this processor but i wish Marantz has designed it with more 12v trigger out and add time delay control to each its trigger out port for more equipment control.

And of course, a little colder running would be nice (any hotter on the top casing i think i can put a frying pan and starts frying eggs!!) smile.gif

Thought want to grab the Oppo 103 but seemingly quite a few incidents reported of the 103 not working so well with 8801, wondering should go to 105 instead? But i dont use 105 XLR stereo or the multichannel out since I thought want to bitstream to 8801 through HDMI for decoding. Anyone has tried the Marantz UD7007 instead?
post #6715 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

With the HDMI input Pure Direct, I find the similar results:

Video Mode: Auto
Video Conversion: ON

Yields the a brighter sound with more decay.

Video Mode: Game
Video Conversion: OFF

Damps down the high end a bit.

- Rich

Does this mean when we listen to music with resolution higher than 48kHz we'll need to turn off the Audyssey?

Any other models out there that has the Audyssey XT32 implemented to handle 192kHz resolution??
post #6716 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

Re: 96khz to 48 kHz down sampling .

If I choose the option for no audyssey for the L/R speakers, and I feed a 7.1 96Khz signal, do the fronts get 96 KHz and the rest of the system get 48Kz?

What happens to the sub with the fronts and then the rest of the system?



So far I don't think anyone knows, but I am trying to get the answers and will post what I find out. Don't sweat it, no one even knew this was happening before that article came out. I didn't see one post that said did you guys notice high res didn't sound so great. In fact I thought my SACD's sounded amazing. I'm still not convinced that one can hear any difference between so called high res downloads and a standard high quality download. Apparently I'm not the only one, if a quick search is done online there's many articles on this.
Edited by comfynumb - 7/10/13 at 1:17am
post #6717 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Kal and others have said that there is not enough DSP power to maintian 24/96.

Personally, I do not use processing but have found that passing the original format (especially on a PC)without changing the sampling or bit-depth seems to produce the best results.

- Rich



You do this for high res downloads Rich from sites like HD tracks?
post #6718 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hifi4Hobby View Post

Does this mean when we listen to music with resolution higher than 48kHz we'll need to turn off the Audyssey?

Any other models out there that has the Audyssey XT32 implemented to handle 192kHz resolution??


I don't know what some people think about how their system sounds when they disengage Audyssey after they are used to it on, but it doesn't sound nearly as good disengaged to me. Once you get used to those Audyssey filters there's no going back. The benefits of having Audyssey engaged far outweigh the benefits of the high res IMO. High res is not helping correct any deficiencies in anyone's room. Yes everyone would like the 8801 to pass higher bitrates with Audyssey engaged but would we even know it? As far as other gear passing it I don't know I haven't heard of any. Stop sweating this and enjoy the 8801 smile.gif
Edited by comfynumb - 7/10/13 at 11:08am
post #6719 of 11283
Re 48kHz if I was to guess I would suggest it would be due to the DSP horsepower req for Sub EQ and the fact this has 11 channels v the usual 5-7 on other units
post #6720 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hifi4Hobby View Post

Does this mean when we listen to music with resolution higher than 48kHz we'll need to turn off the Audyssey?

Any other models out there that has the Audyssey XT32 implemented to handle 192kHz resolution??

I use Pure Direct exclusively. I bought a MIC. One day I will take some measurements to see how my room performs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

You do this for high res downloads Rich from sites like HD tracks?

I play all music using the BDP-105 7.1 analog outs.

- Rich
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