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Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 30

post #871 of 11327
Per Marantz tech support, the AV8801 or AV7701 cannot re-assign the amps. You'll need to use Y-splitter cable in order to bi-amp your speakers.
post #872 of 11327
Interesting page 31, the 8801 does recieve HD radio. I was wondering when that was going to happen. Is HD radio just like FM? you just scan for the station and thats it?.
post #873 of 11327
Guess what I got?biggrin.gif
post #874 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jond0 View Post

Where's the beating a dead horse emoticon?

http://fineartbymary.com/smilies/index.html.
post #875 of 11327
Pictures or it didnt happen

My local Dealer Sound Video in Minnesota will have a bunch in tomorrow. I can't pick mine up till Tuesday. I wonder if I bribed one of the employees with BBQ ribs, if they would drop one off at my house tomorrow?
Edited by Dr_Mark - 12/13/12 at 1:01pm
post #876 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Guess what I got?biggrin.gif

Where from and when did u order?

Spill the beans!
post #877 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

betcha a large amount that if you measured the output it wouldn't make a dimes worth of difference.... smile.gif
"noise isolation" is an even bigger boogeyman for audiophiles than (dare i say it out loud? ) jitter...
your "concerns" are unwarranted... but then again, your expectations are as well...

Not an Audiophile although I do have some nice 2 channel gear and I don't subscribe to the bulk of the BS. I have been a systems integrator for 15 years and have learned how to avoid noise very well, not one system I have ever done has detectable noise but I have certainly cleaned it up on may rack systems, hundreds. Sometimes it's luck but I don't subscribe to the silly undertakings some folks partake but rather try to focus on the most common problems I see repeatedly. I work in an RF paradise and when you do systems in densely populated buildings it's amazing to discover the source of some noise problems. I personally find most pople overdo their theaters with far more then they need in speakers and equipment costs. I also bet you are right because most rooms are an acoustic nightmare and are calibrated all wrong and a basic receiver would do the trick. 90% of subs are so poorly integrated they are almost pointless.

If I put a Parasound Classic series amp at the same power lever as those Halo amps I would bet the owner would not be able to tell any difference in the sound quality. Not even with JC1's.
post #878 of 11327
It is not possible to discuss sound quality without the flat earther crowd coming along. Tell ya what, find 1980 and just stay there! No one (and I mean NO ONE) with experience in hi-end audio who is rational fails to understand that measurements and specs have limited use. How hard is it to comprehend that OBSERVATION (in this case, listening) is the only way to assess the quality of a component!? If listening is pure BS ("just an opinion", etc), then are connessoirs of wine, cigars, coffee, etc and practically anything else simply talking trash? Is there no merit to the views of those with decades of experience?

All DACs sound the same? You serious, Clark? So the power supplies don't matter? The implementation of the chips? The design of the analog stage!? I honestly don't understand why some of you are even here.

Can we please simply discuss this new pre/pro now? Please.
post #879 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

It is not possible to discuss sound quality without the flat earther crowd coming along. Tell ya what, find 1980 and just stay there! No one (and I mean NO ONE) with experience in hi-end audio who is rational fails to understand that measurements and specs have limited use. How hard is it to comprehend that OBSERVATION (in this case, listening) is the only way to assess the quality of a component!? If listening is pure BS ("just an opinion", etc), then are connessoirs of wine, cigars, coffee, etc and practically anything else simply talking trash? Is there no merit to the views of those with decades of experience?
All DACs sound the same? You serious, Clark? So the power supplies don't matter? The implementation of the chips? The design of the analog stage!? I honestly don't understand why some of you are even here.
Can we please simply discuss this new pre/pro now? Please.


Well said.
post #880 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

It is not possible to discuss sound quality without the flat earther crowd coming along. Tell ya what, find 1980 and just stay there! No one (and I mean NO ONE) with experience in hi-end audio who is rational fails to understand that measurements and specs have limited use. How hard is it to comprehend that OBSERVATION (in this case, listening) is the only way to assess the quality of a component!? If listening is pure BS ("just an opinion", etc), then are connessoirs of wine, cigars, coffee, etc and practically anything else simply talking trash? Is there no merit to the views of those with decades of experience?
All DACs sound the same? You serious, Clark? So the power supplies don't matter? The implementation of the chips? The design of the analog stage!? I honestly don't understand why some of you are even here.
Can we please simply discuss this new pre/pro now? Please.

Well done sir.
post #881 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

It is not possible to discuss sound quality without the flat earther crowd coming along. Tell ya what, find 1980 and just stay there! No one (and I mean NO ONE) with experience in hi-end audio who is rational fails to understand that measurements and specs have limited use. How hard is it to comprehend that OBSERVATION (in this case, listening) is the only way to assess the quality of a component!? If listening is pure BS ("just an opinion", etc), then are connessoirs of wine, cigars, coffee, etc and practically anything else simply talking trash? Is there no merit to the views of those with decades of experience?
All DACs sound the same? You serious, Clark? So the power supplies don't matter? The implementation of the chips? The design of the analog stage!? I honestly don't understand why some of you are even here.
Can we please simply discuss this new pre/pro now? Please.

I may be stumbling into a sensitive issue here, but because I don't have the decades of experience you reference, and I am an Engineer, it is logical for me to only rely on the measurements of a device. My untrained ear may hear a difference, but given two high end pieces of audio equipment, I may just hear a difference and not know which is the more desirable sound to the masses, I would only be able to form a personal decision. Having said all that, if I had an expert with decades of listening experience with high end gear, I would value his opinion.
post #882 of 11327
To ignore one's subjective perspective in almost anything in life is strange, to be kind.

Measurements are valuable to the extent that they are comparable, and provide some approximate starting point. But I don't think it's safe to assume most manufacturers's or enthusiasts measurements are easily comparable. Anyone check their real gas mileage compared to the averages originally posted on your windshield sticker?

And even then, the qualitative effect of any quantifiable measurements still must be considered more valuable than anything else, since that effect is what brings intrinsic happiness. We all posses differences in hearing and seeing too, so one man's "ruler flat" frequency response is another man's shrill or muffled high end. And I would suspect there are many things that can't be measured very easily, or at least in a comparable fashion. Various surround settings impart different qualities onto each channel, various processors adjusting subtle aspects of frequency, perhaps time and delay - technologies like Audyssey and Neo:X will extrapolate width and or height speakers....how well a processor does this for someone will largely be assessed as a result of the visceral experience of listening.

I think if some start gushing about every single purchase, with nary a mistake to be seen, then yes there can be blind justification which is particularly tiresome. But I would guess most here have had their share of klunker purchases and are not too proud or operating under ulterior motives to say it, sell it, and move on.

Remember, many scientists still believe in a Creator, however unquantifiable.
post #883 of 11327
http://youtu.be/1CkyrDIGzOE

Finally found the link. ESS is an interesting company. They started out as a PC based audio chipset and tried to move upmarket. They claimed their measurements showed they were nigh perfect but they couldn't get the hifi partners to use their chipsets. And these hifi component designers could detect the ESS stuff blind and didn't like them. So they went back to the drawing board and looked again. Turned out the measurements don't show everything and they are discovering new methods of measuring and understanding how the human hearing system works.

The point being made is that existing measurements (especially steady state measurements) don't take into account everything that we can perceive and we are only discovering how sensitive the human ear and brain can be. It's a long video but I think well worth the time.
post #884 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

It is not possible to discuss sound quality without the flat earther crowd coming along. Tell ya what, find 1980 and just stay there! No one (and I mean NO ONE) with experience in hi-end audio who is rational fails to understand that measurements and specs have limited use. How hard is it to comprehend that OBSERVATION (in this case, listening) is the only way to assess the quality of a component!? If listening is pure BS ("just an opinion", etc), then are connessoirs of wine, cigars, coffee, etc and practically anything else simply talking trash? Is there no merit to the views of those with decades of experience?
All DACs sound the same? You serious, Clark? So the power supplies don't matter? The implementation of the chips? The design of the analog stage!? I honestly don't understand why some of you are even here.
Can we please simply discuss this new pre/pro now? Please.

Your last sentence, translated: "Can I get my licks in and just move on, uncontested?"

Ummmm, well, no.

"Flat earth". That's a compliment to most of your ilk. All the talk in the world is just that...talk. All these proposed "differences"? Yeah. Sure. Meaningless of course until they can be reliably, and blindly discerned by the HUMANS they're are designed and manufactured for...what don't YOU and your clones get about that?

No, instead you get this completely meritless "voice of god" nonsense that cannot be backed with one iota of evidence. None.

And your cinder-block-in-a-swimming-pool analogy relating this to wine and cigars? Absolutely buffoonish and erroneous on so many fronts I won't bore anyone here with a detailing of the obvious. Good grief.

And worse: the 1% drags this utter dross onto a SCIENCE forum and then pull their photocopied victim card the second anyone questions the validity of these purported fantasy-land unicorns. Go figure.

Last: the fact that you or others think this is "all about measurements" speaks volumes about how the ship of intellectual honesty sailed long ago for this lot. Good god, get a clue, it has nothing to do with measurements...zero.

All in a disastrously disguised effort to justify these absurdly over-priced acquisitions that make them "feel good" because they know they hear that they're superior...but could never come close to proving the very premise they rest their entire case upon.

Again, go figure.


Have a nice day.

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 12/13/12 at 4:16pm
post #885 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Your last sentence, translated: "Can I get my licks in and just move on, uncontested?"
Ummmm, well, no.
"Flat earth". That's a compliment to most of your ilk. All the talk in the world is just that...talk. All these proposed "differences"? Yeah. Sure. Meaningless of course until they can be reliably, and blindly discerned by the HUMANS they're are designed and manufactured for...what don't YOU and your clones get about that?
No, instead you get this completely meritless "voice of god" nonsense that cannot be backed with one iota of evidence. None.
And your cinder-block-in-a-swimming-pool analogy relating this to wine and cigars? Absolutely buffoonish and erroneous on so many fronts I won't bore anyone here with a detailing of the obvious. Good grief.
And worse: the 1% drags this utter dross onto a SCIENCE forum and then pull their photocopied victim card the second anyone questions the validity of these purported fantasy-land unicorns. Go figure.
Last: the fact that you or others think this is "all about measurements" speaks volumes about how the ship of intellectual honesty sailed long ago for this lot. Good god, get a clue, it has nothing to do with measurements...zero.
All in a disastrously disguised effort to justify these absurdly over-priced acquisitions that make them "feel good" because they know they hear that they're superior...but could never come close to proving the very premise they rest their entire case upon.
Again, go figure.
Have a nice day.
James

If you no like, you no buy. Stop trying to sway people to believe what you do. Why chime in to argue with us idiots anyway? We are all dumb and are coming to our conclusions with no evidence, there I did your bidding for you. Now go away.
post #886 of 11327
We're here to help. Should you give up on an alcoholic just cause he fails a few dozen times?

Don't answer that.

James
post #887 of 11327
Can we PLEASE stop discussing this nonsense and stick to discussing the av8801? Like most of us here, I want to hear everybody's subjective opinions of how this thing works, how it sounds, what it compares to, under what conditions and with what ancillary equipment, what are it's quirks and issues, etc. I could care less if someone thinks the copper stuff doesnt matter, or that every amp sounds the same, or that noise isolation is useless, etc. WE DONT CARE WHAT YOU THINK, at least on this thread. It is pointless and irritating and inconsiderate for you to keep beating us over the head with your personal religion on these matters. WHY ARE YOU EVEN HERE, other than to take up space and waste everyone's time? Do you feel that you are somehow saving us from ourselves? Hey, here's a newsflash, we don't need your help! If you don't have something constructive to offer regarding the topic (the MARANTZ AV8801), please do us all a favor and move on to another thread.

Sorry, just had to get that off my chest.
post #888 of 11327
Wow apparently I did stumble into something. I didn't bother to read the last couple of pages as I had been following the thread up until then.

ANYWHO>>> I'm still torn between the Integra 80.3 which I anticipate will become much more affordable soon, and the 8801. From what I can tell, the biggest difference for me is the "real" 4k video processing. I doubt I'd use more than 7.2, but since the Integra piece handles 9.2, the 11.2 is a non issue. I have 10/100 switches in my trash so that's of little value to me. What am I missing? Maybe the sound quality is substantially better, but as far as features go, am I forgetting anything?
post #889 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

It is not possible to discuss sound quality without the flat earther crowd coming along. Tell ya what, find 1980 and just stay there! No one (and I mean NO ONE) with experience in hi-end audio who is rational fails to understand that measurements and specs have limited use.

Measurements are like everything else in life - there are good ones and bad ones and the more effort you put into them the more they tell you.
Quote:
How hard is it to comprehend that OBSERVATION (in this case, listening) is the only way to assess the quality of a component!?

How hard is it to comprehend that the human ear has pronounced limitations, and no way are ears even a fraction as sensitive as technical tests done right?

I've been working with technical tests since the early 1960s. Back then our equipment was very limited and what we had that was good cost an arm and a leg. Today one can do an amazing amount of good testing with less than $200 worth of equipment. Heck, receivers now come with usable test equipment built in - its called YPAO, MCACC and Audyssey.
Quote:
If listening is pure BS ("just an opinion", etc), then are connoisseurs of wine, cigars, coffee, etc and practically anything else simply talking trash?

Listening done right can be very helpful, but with true connoisseurs of wine, the wine tasting must be done with adequate controls or else they will be biased. The gold standards of wine tasting are blind tests. When wine is tested other parameters such as temperature must be held constant. The same is true of audio equipment comparisons. There must be adequate controls in place, but in the world of high end audio almost nobody ever does them.
Quote:
Is there no merit to the views of those with decades of experience?

There's an old saying : "Do you have 10 years of experience or do you have 1 year of experience 10 times?"
Quote:
All DACs sound the same?

Just the good ones.
Quote:
So the power supplies don't matter?

Just the good ones.
Quote:
The implementation of the chips?

Just the good ones.

Quote:
The design of the analog stage!?


Just the good ones.
Quote:
I honestly don't understand why some of you are even here.

It is very old school to obsess over things that have risen to relatively high states of sonic perfection in modern times.

Back in the 60s a lot of equipment had serious flaws and it did sound different. As time marched on the equipment got better and better. Is that so hard to believe?
post #890 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by AI Limited View Post

Wow apparently I did stumble into something. I didn't bother to read the last couple of pages as I had been following the thread up until then.
ANYWHO>>> I'm still torn between the Integra 80.3 which I anticipate will become much more affordable soon, and the 8801. From what I can tell, the biggest difference for me is the "real" 4k video processing. I doubt I'd use more than 7.2, but since the Integra piece handles 9.2, the 11.2 is a non issue. I have 10/100 switches in my trash so that's of little value to me. What am I missing? Maybe the sound quality is substantially better, but as far as features go, am I forgetting anything?

Answer my question.
post #891 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by AI Limited View Post

Answer my question.

Are you talking to yourself? Kind of demanding wouldn't you think wink.gif?

Bill
post #892 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Are you talking to yourself? Kind of demanding wouldn't you think wink.gif?
Bill

Yes. I demand an answer to my off topic on the topic question! Lol...
post #893 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkad View Post

Can we PLEASE stop discussing this nonsense and stick to discussing the av8801?

I agree.
Quote:
Like most of us here, I want to hear everybody's subjective opinions of how this thing works

I agree.
Quote:
how it sounds,

Regrettably for you and happily for most of us it doesn't sound appreciably different from other AVRs.
Quote:
I could care less if someone thinks the copper stuff doesnt matter, or that every amp sounds the same, or that noise isolation is useless, etc.

Even if this is an accurate reflection of what the product is really like?

What you're saying is that you only want to hear about information from a fantasy world where every amp sounds different!

Sorry man, that isn't this universe?

Can we sell you a ticket to that other universe?
Quote:
WE DONT CARE WHAT YOU THINK, at least on this thread

Which we is that, the royal we?
Quote:
It is pointless and irritating and inconsiderate for you to keep beating us over the head with your personal religion on these matters.

But its not pointless and irritating and inconsiderate for you to keep beating us over the head with your personal religion on these matters?

Look guy, why can't you just let the comments go by, you k now the ones disagree with your demonstrably religious, based on fantasy ideas in these matters?
Quote:
WHY ARE YOU EVEN HERE, other than to take up space and waste everyone's time?

Just trying to dispell audiophile myths. Cut through the hype and rumor. Don't you think that there is enough that is different about these products that you don't have to add in your religion and fanstasy to the mix?
Quote:
Do you feel that you are somehow saving us from ourselves?

Given the vigor with which you attack ideas that you disagree with, who are you trying to save from whom?

Take a deep breath, stand down from your blood battle with science and let live and let live?
post #894 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by AI Limited View Post

Answer my question.

2nd Digital zone, airplay support, Bluetooth support, different analog circuits and DACs, direct support of ALAC, HD radio tuner built in, many other differences. I would have to hear both to make a judgement.
post #895 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

http://youtu.be/1CkyrDIGzOE
Finally found the link. ESS is an interesting company. They started out as a PC based audio chipset and tried to move upmarket. They claimed their measurements showed they were nigh perfect but they couldn't get the hifi partners to use their chipsets. And these hifi component designers could detect the ESS stuff blind and didn't like them. So they went back to the drawing board and looked again. Turned out the measurements don't show everything and they are discovering new methods of measuring and understanding how the human hearing system works.
The point being made is that existing measurements (especially steady state measurements) don't take into account everything that we can perceive and we are only discovering how sensitive the human ear and brain can be. It's a long video but I think well worth the time.

Interesting video. The volume control video also confirms the suggestion I made earlier, the extra 8 bits of the DAC are used for volume control.
post #896 of 11327
Thread Starter 
< Still waiting for more AV8801 reviews >
post #897 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I agree.
I agree.
Regrettably for you and happily for most of us it doesn't sound appreciably different from other AVRs.
Even if this is an accurate reflection of what the product is really like?
What you're saying is that you only want to hear about information from a fantasy world where every amp sounds different!
Sorry man, that isn't this universe?
Can we sell you a ticket to that other universe?
Which we is that, the royal we?
But its not pointless and irritating and inconsiderate for you to keep beating us over the head with your personal religion on these matters?
Look guy, why can't you just let the comments go by, you k now the ones disagree with your demonstrably religious, based on fantasy ideas in these matters?
Just trying to dispell audiophile myths. Cut through the hype and rumor. Don't you think that there is enough that is different about these products that you don't have to add in your religion and fanstasy to the mix?
Given the vigor with which you attack ideas that you disagree with, who are you trying to save from whom?
Take a deep breath, stand down from your blood battle with science and let live and let live?

Agree with the original respondent that this thread about a device has been hijacked into a nonsensical diatribe of the gostak distims the doshes. I have no problem with a separate thread for a philosophical debate of the science of measured, quantitative results versus immeasurable, subjective opinion. It's just inappropriate here…
post #898 of 11327
Ok, cool -- now that we know they all sound "appreciably" the same, how does the 8801 compare?
post #899 of 11327
I decided to order a demo since they are in stock. I will set it up next week and see how it "seems" compared to the other 30 plus processors I have owned. Then I will remain silent:)
post #900 of 11327
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Guess what I got?biggrin.gif


Probably a huge smile.

Congrats
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