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Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 4

post #91 of 5697
10/17/12 at 1:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

As best I can determine, the "warm" sound of Marantz is a myth and/or a placebo effect. (Although I'll admit that I thought I heard a very subtle effect when I replaced my Pioneer receiver by a Marantz pre/pro & amp about a decade ago.) The bench tests that I've seen show Marantz equipment to provide as flat and accurate an output as any other quality equipment. See, for example, http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/processors/processors-reviews/marantz-av7005-processor/page-5-the-marantz-av7005-ssp-on-the-bench.html and http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/receivers/receivers-reviews/marantz-av8003-and-mm8003/page-5-the-marantz-av8003-a-v-processor-and-mm8003-power-amplifier-on-the-bench.html

I can tell you this... I've owned:
Marantz AV600 to Lexicon DC1/MC1/MC12 to Onkyo Pro 885 to Marantz AV7005

The step-up from the AV600 to the Lexicon was huge. The switch from the Lexicon to the Onkyo extremely disappointing, and from the Onkyo to the Marantz huge again. In fact, I had my Lexicon hooked up the AV7005 using the 7.1 analog in and I decided to sell my Lexicon after I switch to the Marantz. Does the Marantz sound "warm"? I don't know if that's the right term but it sound a heck of a lot better than the Onkyo 885
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post #92 of 5697
10/17/12 at 5:15pm
One of the differences I believe between Denon and Marantz is that Marantz have their own designed HDAM's in their units, which should change the audio output.
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post #93 of 5697
10/17/12 at 8:55pm
Elsewhere I've been reading that the Marantz is not true balanced. If it is based off the 4520, there might be some truth in that.

Has there been confirmation otherwise?
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post #94 of 5697
10/17/12 at 10:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

Elsewhere I've been reading that the Marantz is not true balanced. If it is based off the 4520, there might be some truth in that.
Has there been confirmation otherwise?

Most gear at this price level isn't, non the less I for one hear a difference when using balanced.
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post #95 of 5697
10/17/12 at 11:09pm
I have an 8m run to my centre speaker that's single ended and there's a noticeable hum when the AC is on.
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post #96 of 5697
10/17/12 at 11:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

I have an 8m run to my centre speaker that's single ended and there's a noticeable hum when the AC is on.

From what I know, which is little on the complexities of the subject, I believe the grounding benifts of a balanced connection help with noise, which wither fully balanced or not, issues such as hum ( I've been there) are sometimes cured! at present I have a mix of both RCA/XLR and have test both using the same cables and I personally feel with all the components in a rack with the various power supplies and such, its bound to be a noise factory unto itself. So is it just a placebo lower noise floor ? who Knows! but I now choose balanced when the option is available.
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post #97 of 5697
10/18/12 at 1:01am
Balanced connections come from the studio and performance environment, where long cable runs where needed to interconnect equipment. It uses a differential signal, which allows to compensate for hum and other noise introduced alongside the connection.
It usually does not have any audible advantage in a home environment, although some believe otherwise...
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post #98 of 5697
10/18/12 at 1:16am
I also have the same lengths x 4 for my 2 subs and front L/R power amps which are XLR and these are dead quiet.
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post #99 of 5697
10/18/12 at 10:58am
Another competitor would be the Sherbourn 7030 if they ever release it. It's already 4 month behind schedule.
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post #100 of 5697
10/18/12 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

I have an 8m run to my centre speaker that's single ended and there's a noticeable hum when the AC is on.

Unfortunately, your comment is very ambiguous.

Do you mean there is 8 meters between your pre/pro and the amp that drives the center speaker, or do you mean that you have self-powered speakers with RCA cables running to them?

Since line-level signals are much more sensitive to noise pickup than speaker-level signals, external amps should be as close as possible to a pre/pro in order to minimize the length of the RCA cables. Cables carrying speaker-level signals can be much longer.

By AC, do you mean Air Conditioner or Alternating Current power?
In other words, do you hear noise only when an air-conditioner turns on or do you hear it immediately when you turn on your hifi equipment?

Do you have all of your equipment connected to the same power outlet, or to different power outlets in the wall?

Connecting them all to a power strip which is plugged into a single wall outlet minimizes ground-loop hum.
You should also make sure that any other electrical equipment (like air conditioners and refrigerators) are connected to a different phase of your incoming power. (In the U.S, most houses are served by two different phases of the three power phases coming from the power company. I don't know what's done in other countries.)
Edited by Selden Ball - 10/18/12 at 11:41am
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post #101 of 5697
10/18/12 at 11:34am
Hey MARANTZ:

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post #102 of 5697
10/18/12 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

Hey MARANTZ:
LMAO +1
Between this processor and The Galaxy Note 2, Ouch!
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post #103 of 5697
10/18/12 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

So if the 8801 is a 4520 without amps why would it sound any different? What internal components (DACs, analog stage etc.) would the 8801 have to provide better SQ than the 4520? I would say the 4520 and the 8801 would have a very similar feature set. So I'm not sure what you mean inregard to the 4520 being about features and the 8801 being about SQ.
Bill

1/ I wrote "aimed" towards more SQ. That's the whole bloody point of separates. May we please wait until the thing is actually avalable before the flaming bursts out.

2/ I did not write that the 4520 was all about features (hence not about SQ as you clearly imply) but that 4520 and 8801 are (probably) the same as far as features go.

I know I am not a native english speaker, but I thought I was clear enough.
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post #104 of 5697
10/18/12 at 2:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

Elsewhere I've been reading that the Marantz is not true balanced. If it is based off the 4520, there might be some truth in that.
Has there been confirmation otherwise?
Ofcourse it's not truly balanced. It only has balanced stereo input and balanced 11.2 outputs.

If I am not mistaken, the Denon AVP is truly balanced. Someone correct me if am wrong.
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post #105 of 5697
10/18/12 at 3:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post

1/ I wrote "aimed" towards more SQ. That's the whole bloody point of separates. May we please wait until the thing is actually avalable before the flaming bursts out.
2/ I did not write that the 4520 was all about features (hence not about SQ as you clearly imply) but that 4520 and 8801 are (probably) the same as far as features go.
I know I am not a native english speaker, but I thought I was clear enough.

No flames here just responding to your post with questions in a respectful way. Any insight into how Marantz will "aim" to get better SQ than the 4520? By that I mean better internal components as I asked earlier. I feel your english is fine and I understood your post that I quoted quite well.
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post #106 of 5697
10/18/12 at 5:01pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post

Ofcourse it's not truly balanced. It only has balanced stereo input and balanced 11.2 outputs.
If I am not mistaken, the Denon AVP is truly balanced. Someone correct me if am wrong.

I highly doubt the Denon AVP is truly balanced
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post #107 of 5697
10/18/12 at 6:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

I highly doubt the Denon AVP is truly balanced
I believe the AVP-A1HD is truly balanced when pairing it with the amp they sell that complements it. The
POA-A1HD.
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post #108 of 5697
10/18/12 at 7:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Unfortunately, your comment is very ambiguous.
Do you mean there is 8 meters between your pre/pro and the amp that drives the center speaker, or do you mean that you have self-powered speakers with RCA cables running to them?
Since line-level signals are much more sensitive to noise pickup than speaker-level signals, external amps should be as close as possible to a pre/pro in order to minimize the length of the RCA cables. Cables carrying speaker-level signals can be much longer.
By AC, do you mean Air Conditioner or Alternating Current power?
In other words, do you hear noise only when an air-conditioner turns on or do you hear it immediately when you turn on your hifi equipment?
Do you have all of your equipment connected to the same power outlet, or to different power outlets in the wall?
Connecting them all to a power strip which is plugged into a single wall outlet minimizes ground-loop hum.
You should also make sure that any other electrical equipment (like air conditioners and refrigerators) are connected to a different phase of your incoming power. (In the U.S, most houses are served by two different phases of the three power phases coming from the power company. I don't know what's done in other countries.)

My main gear are all behind the sofa and I run 8m interconnects to the power amps in front, placed near the front LCR and subwoofers.

Only the C interconnect is RCA. Everything else is via XLR using my sub integrator and the front preamp (HT bypass).
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post #109 of 5697
10/19/12 at 1:27am
This looks like a cool unit.. always was looking at the AV8003... which i think is now way outdated,, for the money this looks like a good deal.. I love my Yamaha RX-z7 as a pre-amp with my Parasound amps.. but i am pretty sure the AV8801 will outperform it.. ok i gotta start saving my chips... but I am trying to have children now too.. well my birthday is in June.. smile.gif I am sure the price will be lower in a another year .. hopefully! smile.gif
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post #110 of 5697
10/19/12 at 3:20am
Same power line running off a Sound Application conditioner.

So the only difference is just the interconnects. Even the amps were similar. And the hum came when the air conditioner was on.
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post #111 of 5697
10/19/12 at 9:54am
4520 vs 8801: I always wonder about this stuff. I am a prime candidate for the 8801. I have the AV7005 now, and it's been trouble free and great sounding since I got it maybe 14 months ago.

I would not be surprised if the components in the 4520 and 8801 are identical. But ... could the 8801 spec higher quality parts? IOW, better matching between resistors, caps, op amps, etc, between the channels? A picture of the insides would not tell you that.

But it is true that typically displacing the amps of an AVR from the electronics portion of the SSP can improve sound quality. Additionally, you could run the amp(s) from an analog AC plug on a power conditioner vs a digital AC receptacle for the SSP. Can't do that with an AVR.

So I was thinking of a funny way to say this: I already have separate amplification, so why would I pay less for an AVR with amplification that I already have? biggrin.gif

I had an A100 (4311) here for XT32. But try as I might, I couldn't open the box. So I sent it back. I want an SSP, not an AVR.

Plus, me myself, and I: I don't plan on paying anywhere list price for the 8801. $2500 is my number.
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post #112 of 5697
10/19/12 at 10:15am
Different DAC’s and power supply. XLR’s are 3 things different between them
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post #113 of 5697
10/19/12 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

Same power line running off a Sound Application conditioner.

So the only difference is just the interconnects. Even the amps were similar. And the hum came when the air conditioner was on.

Getting hum from the air conditioner means that noise is being introduced into the audio system somewhere: either in the power line or in the audio interconnects. Since you have a power line conditioner, and only the center channel is affected, this suggests the noise is due to radio-frequency interference in the center channel's RCA interconnect. The RFI noise spikes generated by components within the air conditioner might be radiated directly by those components or they might be radiated by the air conditioner's power line due to that noise getting into it.

In order of difficulty, some options that I can think of are
0. live with it until the 8801 is available wink.gif
1. Move the center channel's amplifier as close to the preamp as possible, so you can use a 2 meter or shorter RCA cable and an 8 meter speaker cable
2. If your air conditioner has a short cable which plugs into the wall nearby, get an appropriate power line conditioner so noise can't get from the air conditioner into the long power run to its circuit box.
3. use XLR instead of RCA interconnects (which might require replacing the preamp and/or the amp before the 8801 is available) or
4. rewire the air conditioner so its power line does not come anywhere near any audio cables.
Edited by Selden Ball - 10/19/12 at 11:04am
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post #114 of 5697
10/19/12 at 11:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin C Brown View Post

4520 vs 8801: I always wonder about this stuff. I am a prime candidate for the 8801. I have the AV7005 now, and it's been trouble free and great sounding since I got it maybe 14 months ago.
I would not be surprised if the components in the 4520 and 8801 are identical. But ... could the 8801 spec higher quality parts? IOW, better matching between resistors, caps, op amps, etc, between the channels? A picture of the insides would not tell you that.
But it is true that typically displacing the amps of an AVR from the electronics portion of the SSP can improve sound quality. Additionally, you could run the amp(s) from an analog AC plug on a power conditioner vs a digital AC receptacle for the SSP. Can't do that with an AVR.
So I was thinking of a funny way to say this: I already have separate amplification, so why would I pay less for an AVR with amplification that I already have? biggrin.gif
I had an A100 (4311) here for XT32. But try as I might, I couldn't open the box. So I sent it back. I want an SSP, not an AVR.
Plus, me myself, and I: I don't plan on paying anywhere list price for the 8801. $2500 is my number.

I have 4311 & It is great on movies, but harsh sounding on music only. I believe this unit will alleviate that. I'm with you on $2500
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post #115 of 5697
10/19/12 at 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Getting hum from the air conditioner means that noise is being introduced into the audio system somewhere: either in the power line or in the audio interconnects. Since you have a power line conditioner, and only the center channel is affected, this suggests the noise is due to radio-frequency interference in the center channel's RCA interconnect. The RFI noise spikes generated by components within the air conditioner might be radiated directly by those components or they might be radiated by the air conditioner's power line due to that noise getting into it.
In order of difficulty, some options that I can think of are
0. live with it until the 8801 is available wink.gif

which is my point in the first place.
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post #116 of 5697
10/19/12 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Mark View Post

Different DAC’s and power supply. XLR’s are 3 things different between them

Do you have specific information showing the DACs and the power supplies used in both the 8801 and the 4520?

Bill
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post #117 of 5697
10/19/12 at 12:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple SU View Post

I can't tell you how and where I got this but here's a picture of the back panel of the new AV-8801. I'm sure everyone will enjoy this. This thing is going to be a BEAST!!!!!!!!!!

Cool 11.1 Balanced hopefully it is fully differentially balanced (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_audio). If only they could offer it in Silver in the US. This should be fully loaded let's hope!

I know that AVP-A1HDCI was supposed to be fully balanced? Cost of Marantz is $3000 I wonder how it will compare to Denon AVP-A1HDCI $7,500

I have the SSP-800, wished it could do 11.2 but it only has 9.1 still I am not sure it is worth changing for now smile.gif Maybe when DTS MDA and Dolby Atmos are incorporated then I will consider it smile.gif 2014 most likely
Edited by wse - 10/19/12 at 12:49pm
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post #118 of 5697
10/19/12 at 2:12pm
The 8801 isn't worth $3,000.
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post #119 of 5697
10/19/12 at 2:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiho View Post

The 8801 isn't worth $3,000.

How do you know? We don't even know the full/all specs. To me, based on what I know now, this sounds like a great deal especially comparing the 8801 to $5k+ units
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post #120 of 5697
10/19/12 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Do you have specific information showing the DACs and the power supplies used in both the 8801 and the 4520?
Bill

Well, the power supply has to be different ... because you don't need power for the power amps in the 8801.

biggrin.gif

But I bet the DACs are the same.
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