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Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 327

post #9781 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

X

Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

Without starting a (power) cable war, but what would this Volex cable give me over the manufacturer cable? They look identical.

Not much difference if any according to a lot of folks in forums including myself. Psychoacoustically however, any system improvement might make you "feel" better about what you hear. Unblinded evaluations show that audio equipment appearance makes people rate some items better acoustically. Whatever it takes to make your mind love the music is ok... It's why cd's have cover art after all...
post #9782 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post

I also use shielded mains cables. I use Volex Model 17604 power cords which are AWG 14 gauge, six foot long, three wire, plus a shield that is attached to ground at the plug end only. Even for devices that have only a two connector input this cable provides some shielding. The cables cost less than ten dollars plus shipping from Allied Electronics. I believe they are the best value in power cables. I've never experimented with whether they make an improvement in the quality of sound, or video for that matter, because at the price it is just the obvious way for me to proceed.

Since I rebuilt my house in 2009, that was destroyed by wildfires in the San Diego area, I was able to add a media room. The media room's electrical service is wired in a star configuration with each two outlets going back to a breaker panel that is in an adjoining space. The wire used is AWG 10 gauge (.001 ohms/foot) with 20 amp breakers. Such a design is relatively low cost to implement in new construction or a major remodel. The outlets are good quality but nothing special or expensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

Without starting a (power) cable war, but what would this Volex cable give me over the manufacturer cable? They look identical.


I don't have horribly strong feelings about this so don't worry about a war.

I've found that various pieces of equipment come with various power cords. Usually they are 14 or 16 gauge or even 18 gauge, non-shielded. So why do I change them?

1) I like all the cords to be the same. I don't want to worry that a particular cord came with a particular piece of equipment. Life is just simpler that way. I not a particularly neat person but I like the straightforward nature this implementation. Some people like all blue lights on their equipment, I like uniform cords; it takes all kinds.

2) I like the idea of a shielded cord. I have lots of power cords and signal cables running around my system and anything I can do to stop signals transferring from one cable to another seems good. I guess I'm trying to minimize the implications of some of Maxwell's equations! EMI can have various effects on electronics which are hard to predict. I have no way of measuring if there are benefits. Much like the wiring of my media room, it just seems like a good idea. That the cords are shielded is one of the technical reasons why I like them.

I have some Bryston 4BSST2 amplifiers among other amplifiers. They came with a Volex cord, I believe 17504, it is the same as the cords we are discussing here but unshielded. I guess I feel I'm slightly enhancing the cord they included. The price of the cord vs. the price of the amplifiers makes this not a financial decision.

3) I like these particular cords because they are 14 gauge. My feeling is the bigger the wire gauge the better, there is less voltage drop which affects both the power from power amplifiers, although admittedly in likely a very, very minor way, and reduces potential hum issues slightly. I wish Volex made a ten dollar 12 or 10 gauge cord; hey I might pay up to $15 each! That the cords are 14 gauge, which is fairly good sized wire, is the second technical reason I like them. Clearly heavier gauge power cords are available but they cost far more and diminishing returns sets in if the purchase of the cord is based on its resistance over a distance of only six feet or so.

4) I use these cords with all my electronics, including personal computers. The idea there is to try to minimize emissions. Computer power supplies likely are somewhat dirty emissions wise. My understanding is that some of the limitations on EMI emissions cause the makers of electronics to use spread spectrum technology and frequency hopping to minimize emissions peaks at single frequencies over time. This causes the equipment to put out a broad spectrum of "stuff."

5) Overall the finished cords are nice quality. The manufacture of the cord is done somewhere in Asia. I believe the final assembly to the ends is done in Indianapolis, IN.

I hope this helps.
post #9783 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post


Not much difference if any according to a lot of folks in forums including myself. Psychoacoustically however, any system improvement might make you "feel" better about what you hear. Unblinded evaluations show that audio equipment appearance makes people rate some items better acoustically. Whatever it takes to make your mind love the music is ok... It's why cd's have cover art after all...

I believe you have covered the essence of what I had in mind in a lot fewer words than I used above!
post #9784 of 11283
I had reported before that I was getting bass distortion in one of my channels (surround rear right) and was trying to problem solve. Well...the speaker does not distort at 90hz but does at 80hz. The interesting thing is if I switch the speaker cables from RR to RL it does it on RL meaning the rear right surround channel on either the amp or preamp is defective. Which one is it? Any help would be great!
post #9785 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

Anyone run an external dac, like the sabre reference, into the 8801 and use bass management only for 2 channel audio?

Curious if any impressiona are out there or if it's best to stick with marantz's dac
I use the Sabre Reference in the Oppo 105 in conjunction with the 8801 for 2 channel audio via the xlr inputs in Pure direct daily . I don't use a sub in this configuration as my mains are flat down to 30hz, however when I do add in a sub for 2 channel its via the 8801's dac along with Audyssey as I got a good calibration that sounds good with music as well. I like to think I have my cake and can eat it too biggrin.gif
post #9786 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

I had reported before that I was getting bass distortion in one of my channels (surround rear right) and was trying to problem solve. Well...the speaker does not distort at 90hz but does at 80hz. The interesting thing is if I switch the speaker cables from RR to RL it does it on RL meaning the rear right surround channel on either the amp or preamp is defective. Which one is it? Any help would be great!

Are the levels the same on the RR/ RL? and are they spaced the same from the mlp?
post #9787 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Are the levels the same on the RR/ RL? and are they spaced the same from the mlp?
The left is actually louder (turned up on the pre amp) compared to the problematic rear right.
post #9788 of 11283
Try the 8801 with a different amp if you can.
post #9789 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

The left is actually louder (turned up on the pre amp) compared to the problematic rear right.

How about the cable itself that runs to the speaker ? is it nailed or under carpet running along baseboards?
post #9790 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

How about the cable itself that runs to the speaker ? is it nailed or under carpet running along baseboards?

Good suggestion.
Cables are the easiest to test and I have had issues with them, but somehow, I keep forgetting that tongue.gif

- Rich
post #9791 of 11283
Well, you've switched speaker cables to find out the speakers are good, great idea! So, why not switch cables from the AV8801 to your amp to see whether the amp, AV8801 or cable is bad? You'll have to do at least two trials to eliminate two of the three, leaving you with the bad component.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

I had reported before that I was getting bass distortion in one of my channels (surround rear right) and was trying to problem solve. Well...the speaker does not distort at 90hz but does at 80hz. The interesting thing is if I switch the speaker cables from RR to RL it does it on RL meaning the rear right surround channel on either the amp or preamp is defective. Which one is it? Any help would be great!
post #9792 of 11283
The $100+ power cable thing is pure B$. The bottom line is the power supply in the AV8801 filters the AC voltage input and converts it to regulated DC voltage. The power is filtered and regulated internal to the AV8801, no need for a new cord. I am positive there will be no real difference in changing the power cord, but probably a psychological difference if one doesn't trust science and engineering. Now if a power cable looks pretty for $10 and is a better length for your install, nothing wrong with buying it if that's what you want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post


Not much difference if any according to a lot of folks in forums including myself. Psychoacoustically however, any system improvement might make you "feel" better about what you hear. Unblinded evaluations show that audio equipment appearance makes people rate some items better acoustically. Whatever it takes to make your mind love the music is ok... It's why cd's have cover art after all...
post #9793 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

I use the Sabre Reference in the Oppo 105 in conjunction with the 8801 for 2 channel audio via the xlr inputs in Pure direct daily . I don't use a sub in this configuration as my mains are flat down to 30hz, however when I do add in a sub for 2 channel its via the 8801's dac along with Audyssey as I got a good calibration that sounds good with music as well. I like to think I have my cake and can eat it too biggrin.gif

I switched the speaker cables on the amp and it followed the output of the rear right channel. Then I switched the xlr from rear right to rear left and the distortion was at rear left isolating that the amp rear right channel is defective. Am I correct in that thinking?
post #9794 of 11283
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post

The $100+ power cable thing is pure B$. The bottom line is the power supply in the AV8801 filters the AC voltage input and converts it to regulated DC voltage. The power is filtered and regulated internal to the AV8801, no need for a new cord. I am positive there will be no real difference in changing the power cord, but probably a psychological difference if one doesn't trust science and engineering. Now if a power cable looks pretty for $10 and is a better length for your install, nothing wrong with buying it if that's what you want.

I think the shielding part might have merits though.
post #9795 of 11283
The wierd thing is, no amount of scientific knowledge about chocolate can automatically make chocolate taste less good. Knowledge may or may not make much difference but this cannot be predicted a-priori. WHICH knowledge might change your opinion about something is only somewhat predictable also.

Free will is an illusion.
post #9796 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

The wierd thing is, no amount of scientific knowledge about chocolate can automatically make chocolate taste less good. Knowledge may or may not make much difference but this cannot be predicted a-priori. WHICH knowledge might change your opinion about something is only somewhat predictable also.

Free will is an illusion.

Free will is simply the freedom to make a choice between what ever A or B may be or represent. wink.gif
post #9797 of 11283
Without getting into complex neurocognitive discussions, freedom does not give you free will as defined by any philosophical discussion of useful free will.

An ant can make a "choice" between breadcrumb A and B.

I suggest youtube: sam harris - free will lectures to get a good idea about what I am talking about. It wouldnt surprise me that readers of avs forum would understand this lecture upon listening because audiophiles are VERY likely to have higher than average intelligence.

You dont see a lot of complete idiots on this site. Avsforum is a nerd-magnet in the best possible way.
post #9798 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

You dont see a lot of complete idiots on this site.

Well, I don't post that much, so your sample size is low. biggrin.gif
post #9799 of 11283
Yesterday I was fooling around with the Apple Airplay and a song came up (Marc Cohn's "Walking in Memphis", fwiw) that I use as a test song for equipment. I was listening in 2 channel + both subs with Audyssey running. I stopped and pulled out the CD, plopped it into the Oppo 95 and listened in pure direct mode (Oppo to 8801 is via XLRs). So only my 2 B&W LCR speakers were active.

Wow. I didn't think there'd be a lot of difference, but there was. A. Lot. The CD sounds 10x better. More breadth and depth, and the soundstage was very, very good.

I tried a couple of other songs that I'm very familiar with and the results were the same.

My songs are stored in Apple lossless on the MacBook Pro.

So does Airplay down convert things to 256k or ? Seems odd that it was *that* much of a difference. Just huge. I can't believe there is that much difference between the Sabres and the Burr-Brown DACs.
post #9800 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by admranger View Post

Yesterday I was fooling around with the Apple Airplay and a song came up (Marc Cohn's "Walking in Memphis", fwiw) that I use as a test song for equipment. I was listening in 2 channel + both subs with Audyssey running. I stopped and pulled out the CD, plopped it into the Oppo 95 and listened in pure direct mode (Oppo to 8801 is via XLRs). So only my 2 B&W LCR speakers were active.

Wow. I didn't think there'd be a lot of difference, but there was. A. Lot. The CD sounds 10x better. More breadth and depth, and the soundstage was very, very good.

I tried a couple of other songs that I'm very familiar with and the results were the same.

My songs are stored in Apple lossless on the MacBook Pro.

So does Airplay down convert things to 256k or ? Seems odd that it was *that* much of a difference. Just huge. I can't believe there is that much difference between the Sabres and the Burr-Brown DACs.



I've noticed AirPlay doesn't sound that great when using the app in the 8801. But it is overly compressed music and most of it doesn't sound that good anyway. The best quality is using your Mac or PC, better than using your istuff anyway. I just got an ATV3 for Christmas, I'll do a comparison streaming it that way and post my results.
post #9801 of 11283
Airplay via apple tv is NOT bitperfect and will upconvert music. Via airplay on an airport express i think it is bitperfect as long as no volume control is used (volume on itunes or music app is maxed out).

I am setting my marantz up after vacation when i get home tomorrow and this week i will put airplay in the marantz on my list of stuff to try.

It's possible that you are using pure direct with the CD player and audyssey "stereo" mode with equilization when you do airplay?
post #9802 of 11283

AirPlay is always 44.1 going out. Worse, Apple TV will up convert this to 48k (and there are plenty of ways to do sample rate conversion badly). While messy, I did get my 8801 to play 96k ALC files in their native form using a DLNA server set to never transcode. Fortunately, the 8801 knows how to deal with ALC and FLAC. Not as convenient as AirPlay, of course.

post #9803 of 11283

So speaking of AirPlay, I actually came on here to report a bug I found and would like to know if it's just me..

 

From my Mac (Mac OS 10.9.1, iTunes 11.1.3) connected via AirPlay to the AVR, if I use the AVR to stop the music and then enter standby mode, the AVR will never be connectable after that. From my Mac or my iPhone, the client will give an error the device is already in use. Cycling through standby does not clear this condition, and the AC power must be removed, after which is works fine (until of course repeating the steps to reproduce the bug).

post #9804 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulForgey View Post

So speaking of AirPlay, I actually came on here to report a bug I found and would like to know if it's just me..

From my Mac (Mac OS 10.9.1, iTunes 11.1.3) connected via AirPlay to the AVR, if I use the AVR to stop the music and then enter standby mode, the AVR will never be connectable after that. From my Mac or my iPhone, the client will give an error the device is already in use. Cycling through standby does not clear this condition, and the AC power must be removed, after which is works fine (until of course repeating the steps to reproduce the bug).

Well this news sucks since i was gonna try to automate with control4 using the airplay control features... I guess not anymore...
post #9805 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

Well this news sucks since i was gonna try to automate with control4 using the airplay control features... I guess not anymore...



I wouldn't sweat it yet, it may just be from his Mac but if you could reproduce it then the both of you should contact Marantz.
post #9806 of 11283
Help - Not responding to Remote

I installed an AV8801 with a matching MM8077 about 2 weeks ago. The amp is connected via XLR cables and last night I connected the remote control jack on the amp to the receiver so the amp would turn on and off with the receiver and everything worked well. Tonight I used Audyssey for the first time to configure my 5.1 (the remote worked great) then I watched a movie (the sound was great) and now the receiver doesn't respond either to my universal remote or the Marantz remote that came with it. I tried cycling the power, confirming that the remote lock is off and even resetting the microprocessor (reconfig from the front panel was painful) and still no response to either remote. The universal remote still controls all of my other components but the 8801 isn't responding.
Any help is appreciated.
post #9807 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulForgey View Post

So speaking of AirPlay, I actually came on here to report a bug I found and would like to know if it's just me..

From my Mac (Mac OS 10.9.1, iTunes 11.1.3) connected via AirPlay to the AVR, if I use the AVR to stop the music and then enter standby mode, the AVR will never be connectable after that. From my Mac or my iPhone, the client will give an error the device is already in use. Cycling through standby does not clear this condition, and the AC power must be removed, after which is works fine (until of course repeating the steps to reproduce the bug).

Are you actually turning off the Airplay source by pressing and holding the "Enter" button on the Marantz remote (recommended) or are you simply setting the 8801 to Standby?

post #9808 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by jletourn View Post

Help - Not responding to Remote

I installed an AV8801 with a matching MM8077 about 2 weeks ago. The amp is connected via XLR cables and last night I connected the remote control jack on the amp to the receiver so the amp would turn on and off with the receiver and everything worked well. Tonight I used Audyssey for the first time to configure my 5.1 (the remote worked great) then I watched a movie (the sound was great) and now the receiver doesn't respond either to my universal remote or the Marantz remote that came with it. I tried cycling the power, confirming that the remote lock is off and even resetting the microprocessor (reconfig from the front panel was painful) and still no response to either remote. The universal remote still controls all of my other components but the 8801 isn't responding.
Any help is appreciated.

When you cycle the power ..... also unplug the 8801 from the power for at least 10 minutes.
post #9809 of 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

When you cycle the power ..... also unplug the 8801 from the power for at least 10 minutes.

What also happens often is that users want to use the standby button to turn on the 8801 when they should be using one of the input buttons such as "cab/sat", "DVD", etc.
post #9810 of 11283
^^
Correct. smile.gif
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