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Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 425

post #12721 of 16449
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewFG View Post

Hmmm. The UPnP Digital Media Server specification architecture implicitly requires that the server shall have already created the browse tree and indexed the individual items within each branch and twig according to its own (server's) rules. The control point merely asks the server to deliver the contents of the various branches and twigs on a page by page basis.

So if the Oppo would actually be (re)indexing the browse tree contents that it retrieves via ContentDirectory:Browse, then 1) it is not following the intention of the UPnP Digital Media Server specification, and 2) it is wasting time recreating an index on the client side that has in fact already been done on the server.

Notwithstanding the above, (and notwithstanding what the player says on screen), I am certain that your 10 minute time delay is not primarily due to an indexing operation, but is primarily due to the actual download time to transfer the full (20'000) entries of the browse tree and all its respective meta data. Other control points like Windows Media Player (and indeed JRiver) also do a full download of the browse tree from time to time (when re-synching their databases) and I have measured download times of 10..20 minutes with those applications to load a browse tree with 10'000 entries. [ So in your case getting 20'000 entries in 10 minutes is actually rather fast wink.gif ]
So regardless of what the Oppo player calls it, why does the Oppo always do this at startup whereas my other clients don't? And, is there some way to get the Oppo to behave like the others?

I am able to start playing tracks (several complete playing before the 'File Indexing' completes), but due to the Oppo's overuse of the Blue button to do multiple things depending on its state, I can't change the play mode to Shuffle until this file indexing operation has completed. My hope was to find a way around this delay (which will only get worse as I add more tracks) during which I can't change the play mode.
post #12722 of 16449
Ok so I am getting a weird issue and I am praying someone here can help. Currently im running thee Oppo BDP 103 Blu-ray player HDMI 2 through a Yamaha receiver to an Epson 8350 Projector. Had this set up for quite a while and I always had it set to 36 bit Color and YCbCr 4:4:4 color space. All of my blu-rays played fine and looked great. When I hit the info button on the projector it always read 12 bit deep color. Then I got the Blu-ray for This is the End from Netflix. Every 5 to 10 minutes the picture would distort and then a blank screen would come up and then eventually go back to being normal. for another 5 to 10 minutes. Tried a replacement disc of the same movie and got the same effect. Then I bought the 4k remastered Spider-Man (2002). Now the picture is dropping out every 2 seconds. So I went back into Oppo settings and I switched the color space to RGB Video Level and it all worked perfectly. And I bet if I rented this is the End again it would play fine as well with these new settings. Both RGB Video Level and RGB Video PC work fine,.

So here are my questions.
1. Why did my settings work fine with ALL other blu-rays but not these 2 Sony titles?
2. Since the highest the projector goes is 12 bit do my 30 and 36 bit settings matter at all? I selected them both during and it didn't make it stutter or anything I am just wondering If it does anything?
3.Most importantly am I missing out on anything with the RGB Video Level Color space? To my naked eye I didn't see anything but I also am not doing a side by side comparison. Even the YCbCr 4:2:2 setting makes the projector stutter on those 2 Sony titles. Is there any difference at all for a projector on the low end like mine?

Thank You.
post #12723 of 16449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purgy View Post

Hi all, my first posting and a question.

is there a possibility to set the 103 directly starting with the hdmi-input signal when turn on the player ?

Welcome to AVSForum.

No, not currently.

If you have a programmable remote you can select the input as part of your power-on procedure: How do I select an INPUT source with a programmable remote?

-Bill
post #12724 of 16449
Quote:
Originally Posted by WannaKnowTech View Post

Ok so I am getting a weird issue and I am praying someone here can help. Currently im running thee Oppo BDP 103 Blu-ray player HDMI 2 through a Yamaha receiver to an Epson 8350 Projector. Had this set up for quite a while and I always had it set to 36 bit Color and YCbCr 4:4:4 color space. All of my blu-rays played fine and looked great. When I hit the info button on the projector it always read 12 bit deep color. Then I got the Blu-ray for This is the End from Netflix. Every 5 to 10 minutes the picture would distort and then a blank screen would come up and then eventually go back to being normal. for another 5 to 10 minutes. Tried a replacement disc of the same movie and got the same effect. Then I bought the 4k remastered Spider-Man (2002). Now the picture is dropping out every 2 seconds. So I went back into Oppo settings and I switched the color space to RGB Video Level and it all worked perfectly. And I bet if I rented this is the End again it would play fine as well with these new settings. Both RGB Video Level and RGB Video PC work fine,.

So here are my questions.
1. Why did my settings work fine with ALL other blu-rays but not these 2 Sony titles?
2. Since the highest the projector goes is 12 bit do my 30 and 36 bit settings matter at all? I selected them both during and it didn't make it stutter or anything I am just wondering If it does anything?
3.Most importantly am I missing out on anything with the RGB Video Level Color space? To my naked eye I didn't see anything but I also am not doing a side by side comparison. Even the YCbCr 4:2:2 setting makes the projector stutter on those 2 Sony titles. Is there any difference at all for a projector on the low end like mine?

Thank You.

1. Have you tried playing any other titles after "This is the End" and "Spiderman" with 36 bit color and YCbCr 4:4:4, to be certain that the issue only effects those two titles vs. something that just started occurring the same time as you got those two titles. Have you tried switching to the HDMI 1 output on the Oppo, switching HDMI cables, or temporarily bypassing the Yamaha receiver? Some careful diagnosis may help you eliminate some possibilities.
2. 12 bit on your projector is referring to 12 bit per channel. 36 bit on the Oppo is referring to 36 bit for all 3 channels, which is the same as 12 bit per channel. 8, 10, and 12 are the same as 24, 30, and 36 respectively. NO source material currently uses anything more than 24 bit/8 bit per channel. Using the HDMI 2 output on the Oppo there really should be no detectible difference between 24, 30, and 36. There is a possibility of very minor differences depending on how your projector handles the input.
3. To really verify the differences between the color space settings you need to use the Spears & Munsil disc. Theoretically they should all be the same, but the interaction between TV and player often creates some differences. RGB PC level is not recommended because it truncates all of the headroom built into the video signal structure, and most TVs don't compensate correctly for its non-video-standard white and black levels. The possibilities with the different colorspaces is rather complex, so I refer you to Spears & Munsil/Choosing a Color Space, 2nd Edition
post #12725 of 16449
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post

1. Have you tried playing any other titles after "This is the End" and "Spiderman" with 36 bit color and YCbCr 4:4:4, to be certain that the issue only effects those two titles vs. something that just started occurring the same time as you got those two titles. Have you tried switching to the HDMI 1 output on the Oppo, switching HDMI cables, or temporarily bypassing the Yamaha receiver? Some careful diagnosis may help you eliminate some possibilities.
2. 12 bit on your projector is referring to 12 bit per channel. 36 bit on the Oppo is referring to 36 bit for all 3 channels, which is the same as 12 bit per channel. 8, 10, and 12 are the same as 24, 30, and 36 respectively. NO source material currently uses anything more than 24 bit/8 bit per channel. Using the HDMI 2 output on the Oppo there really should be no detectible difference between 24, 30, and 36. There is a possibility of very minor differences depending on how your projector handles the input.
3. To really verify the differences between the color space settings you need to use the Spears & Munsil disc. Theoretically they should all be the same, but the interaction between TV and player often creates some differences. RGB PC level is not recommended because it truncates all of the headroom built into the video signal structure, and most TVs don't compensate correctly for its non-video-standard white and black levels. The possibilities with the different colorspaces is rather complex, so I refer you to Spears & Munsil/Choosing a Color Space, 2nd Edition

First of all thank you for responding to my questions.

1.Yes I have and they all seem to work fine. I see others have had the problem with this is the end. I think there might be something funky with the way Sony is encoding their 4k remasters. I haven't tried HDMI 1 just because I don't like the filtering. haven't tried different cables or receiver either but all my other discs are playing fine.

2.Thank you for clearing all of that fine. Although what do you mean by using HDMI 2 I shouldn't see a difference? Would I see a difference with HDMI 1? Why?

3.Ok I will and get that disc soon. Why are there 4 different options of they are all the same?

Keep in mind im really stupid, thanks.
post #12726 of 16449
Quote:
Originally Posted by WannaKnowTech View Post

First of all thank you for responding to my questions.

1.Yes I have and they all seem to work fine. I see others have had the problem with this is the end. I think there might be something funky with the way Sony is encoding their 4k remasters. I haven't tried HDMI 1 just because I don't like the filtering. haven't tried different cables or receiver either but all my other discs are playing fine.

2.Thank you for clearing all of that fine. Although what do you mean by using HDMI 2 I shouldn't see a difference? Would I see a difference with HDMI 1? Why?

3.Ok I will and get that disc soon. Why are there 4 different options of they are all the same?

Keep in mind im really stupid, thanks.

On a related note:

Sony's "Mastered in 4K" titles don't use deep color, they use xvYCC "extended color" which is a different thing. The only way to really see the expanded color palette is to have a compatible Sony blu-ray player coupled with a Sony Triluminos display. At least, everything I've described was the state of the union for these discs about 2 months ago when they started coming out. Some people, when playing these discs, have actually reported washed-out colors when trying to turn deep color on and not using Sony hardware.
post #12727 of 16449
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatherom View Post

On a related note:

Sony's "Mastered in 4K" titles don't use deep color, they use xvYCC "extended color" which is a different thing. The only way to really see the expanded color palette is to have a compatible Sony blu-ray player coupled with a Sony Triluminos display. At least, everything I've described was the state of the union for these discs about 2 months ago when they started coming out. Some people, when playing these discs, have actually reported washed-out colors when trying to turn deep color on and not using Sony hardware.
Yes I do know the thing about xvYCC it's just I leave it on deep color by default. Either way it didn't make a difference, everything looked great. The color space setting is what screwed everything up, I just don't know why.
post #12728 of 16449
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwillcox View Post

So regardless of what the Oppo player calls it, why does the Oppo always do this at startup whereas my other clients don't?

Well obviously I don't know why Oppo does it differently wink.gif but the following are my suspicions about what they do differently and how it has an impact on you (and other users)...

  1. I suspect that the Oppo is asking for too many items at a time in its Browse requests. As mentioned earlier a typical request would be for a page worth of entries at a time (say 20..30 items). UPnP uses HTTP SOAP requests, and this means that the server cannot even start to return data to the client until it has itself assembled all the data and compiled it into XML. The reason for this is that the server cannot transmit the ContentLength header value (sent in the HTTP headers at the start of its reply) until it knows all of what it is going to send. This means that large Browse requests will tend to block on the server, and thus freeze the client process. The proper way is to make many smaller requests rather than fewer larger ones.
  2. I suspect that the Oppo is not putting its Browse requests on a separate thread from the one that is running the User Interface. This means that whenever a SOAP request blocks (as described above) the UI also blocks.
  3. I suspect that the Oppo is not making a UI "breathe" call within its Browse request loop. In the case that a device does not (well) support multi threading, it should at least call such a "breathe" function every time round a long loop so that it can update the UI whenever possible (e.g. thus allowing you to press your blue button etc.)
  4. I suspect that the Oppo is not using lists pre-populated with empty entries. Normally if you are going to fill a list of entries via the Browse call, you first create locally a list of the correct size and filled with empty entries (e.g. track name = ??), and then in a second phase you use Browse calls to request the actual data to fill the list on a page by page basis as needed. If (say) the player is currently displaying the middle 20 items in a 100 item list, then the player should do a Browse to fetch the data for those items first. Then if the user scrolls up one page, the player should do a Browse for the prior 20 items. Or if the user scrolls down one page, the player should do a Browse for the next 20 items. If the user jumps to the head of the list, the player should do a Browse for the first 20 items. And if the user jumps to the tail of the list, the player should do a Browse for the last 20 items...
  5. EDIT: Your particular issue is that you cannot do a shuffle of the playlist list before the browse list is filled. I suspect that this is because the Oppo cannot mess with the order of entries in its list until it has fully populated that list. i.e. It is treating the browse list and the play list as a single hermetic entity. The proper solution would be to have two lists: one being the browse list that gets filled sequentially via the UPnP Browse command loop, and the second being the play list which is a shuffled lookup list into the browse list. This way, the player could create the shuffle order before it has actually completed filling the browse list. Note that this does require some careful programming particularly if the start of the play list contains short tracks that may have been played through before the browse list has been fully populated. It also requires more CPU and more memory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwillcox View Post

And, is there some way to get the Oppo to behave like the others?

Only if you can persuade them to rewrite their code. I think the problem is that Oppo actually uses UPnP code licensed from a third party software supplier, and probably Oppo itself does not have the know how to rewrite this code. And even if they did have the know how, they may choose not to rewrite it because licensing standard code from a third party might be cheaper and less risky for them. But who knows?
Edited by AndrewFG - 10/31/13 at 10:43am
post #12729 of 16449
AndrewFG, as a software engineer (though not in this field) I certainly appreciate your detailed descriptions of the UPnP processing and protocols. The really shed some light on how this stuff works. However, I guess my questions are mostly rhetorical. The most I was hoping for is someone to tell me what I was missing or doing wrong that would make pulling random tracks from my DLNA servers more convenient.

Once I get past the protracted indexing step things are working great. Probably my greatest disappointment is that Oppo overloaded the Blue button for changing play modes instead of having a dedicated button. In fact, a discrete play mode IR code would be great as I use a Pronto universal remote as a rule to control the system devices.
post #12730 of 16449
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwillcox View Post

The most I was hoping for is someone to tell me what I was missing or doing wrong that would make pulling random tracks from my DLNA servers more convenient.

I don't think you are missing anything.

The only thing to do is to hope that somebody from the Oppo R&D department is reading this thread. Because basically I have told them here everything they need to know in order to solve your issue. And the only question is if they will add it to their to do list. And when...

But please don't hold your breath on this one; it is an issue that has not been addressed ever since the BDP-83 was released.
post #12731 of 16449
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewFG View Post

Sorry but your analogy between UPnP and Windows is not really appropriate...
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewFG View Post

Your description does not quite match what is going on behind the scenes.

I am am just posting my observations. What goes behind the scenes is not consequential. I just need to know to allow the player a minute and a half before my entire library is available to listen to. That is all I, the end user, cares about.
post #12732 of 16449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post


I am am just posting my observations. What goes behind the scenes is not consequential. I just need to know to allow the player a minute and a half before my entire library is available to listen to. That is all I, the end user, cares about.

Are you using a DLNA server? On my system the first page of tracks show up quickly and I can start playing something from that list right away. The problem is that what I want to do in some (many) situations when I'm streaming audio is to then set the play mode to Shuffle. Due to the overloaded use of the Blue button I can't do this till the entire 'File Indexing' operation has completed. With my 20000 tracks this takes over 10 minutes (this is on a 1Gb ethernet wired link, and coming from a fast RAID 5 array file server).

Are you saying that your system does this File Indexing operation with a similar number of tracks from a DLNA server in a minute and a half?
post #12733 of 16449
Thread Starter 
I am using oShare as my DLNA server. SMB does not have the ALL MUSIC option.

And yes, that is how quick the file indexing is for me for my media types that I have shared over an Ethernet connection.
post #12734 of 16449
Interestingly I had this exact same issue with "This is the end"... black screen popping up randomly was extremely annoying. I wanted to see the movie though, so I opened up VUDU and just rented it through there. The video was flawless. I haven't had issues with any other Blu-Ray. Also running BDP-103.
post #12735 of 16449
^ I had no problems with my Netflix rental of "This is the End", Blu-ray.

But as a Beta Tester, I'm running on newer firmware than you folks can get your hands on at the moment.

Please email OPPO Tech Support with details of what's happening -- what worked or didn't work -- and they can check it out. Be sure to specify which firmware you are using:

Setup > Device Setup > Firmware Information > Main firmware version number and also Loader firmware version number.

If you have a RETAIL copy of the disc, please also include the bar code number from the disc's packaging, as these discs are typically made in several different configurations, and OPPO needs to check out the exact version you are playing.
--Bob
post #12736 of 16449
Please forgive me if this is a re-posted subject, but WOW! 12,700+ post on one thread in a year!

Searching this thread is out of the question because I'm looking to speak (message, IM, what-have-you...) with someone who actually has this device in their possession and uses it, so searching 'owner' comes back with ... 12,700+ posts!

If you are such a person and wouldn't mind answering a few questions, please message me. There is a lot of info out on the web and in this forum as well, but I would like to bounce a couple of very specific questions of somebody who actually has used this device.

Thank you for your time.
Edited by pdbuzz - 10/31/13 at 5:57pm
post #12737 of 16449
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdbuzz View Post

Please forgive me if this is a re-posted subject, but WOW! 12,700+ post on one thread in a year!

Searching this thread is out of the question because I'm looking to speak (message, IM, what-have-you...) with someone who actually has this device in their possession and uses it, so searching 'owner' comes back with ... 12,700+ posts!

If you are such a person and wouldn't mind answering a few questions, please message me. There is a lot of info out on the web and in this forum as well, but I would like to bounce a very specific questions of somebody who actually has used this device.

Thank you for your time.
Your best bet is to post your questions in this thread, rather than soliciting PMs. You might be surprised how many owners will answer your questions...
post #12738 of 16449
My concern is starting a protracted debate on topics not related to the unit itself...but ok, here we go..

I have a multitude of different media file types with different audio (Dolby, DTS) encoding and I would like to know if anyone has experienced any issues related to audio playback through any files they use.

AND

I have a plethora of Blu-rays and DVD's and over the years I've had to strip those discs down to their concordant movie files in order to play them back. This approach has worked well EXCEPT for the fact that I lose all of the extras that come with the discs. While I've read that the OPPO will playback Bluray and DVD iso files, my question is when playing back Bluray iso's with this device; do you have access to the full Blu ray menus, sub-menus, etc. Does that go for even the most current BD's (say, Monsters University, Oblivion, etc)?

Thank you!
post #12739 of 16449
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdbuzz View Post

My concern is starting a protracted debate on topics not related to the unit itself...but ok, here we go..

I have a multitude of different media file types with different audio (Dolby, DTS) encoding and I would like to know if anyone has experienced any issues related to audio playback through any files they use.

AND

I have a plethora of Blu-rays and DVD's and over the years I've had to strip those discs down to their concordant movie files in order to play them back. This approach has worked well EXCEPT for the fact that I lose all of the extras that come with the discs. While I've read that the OPPO will playback Bluray and DVD iso files, my question is when playing back Bluray iso's with this device; do you have access to the full Blu ray menus, sub-menus, etc. Does that go for even the most current BD's (say, Monsters University, Oblivion, etc)?

Thank you!

Welcome to AVSForum.

The OPPOs do not support ISO files.

-Bill
post #12740 of 16449
No kidding? Hmm. It seems a number of other forum posters across the web are either using 'iso' as a catch-all term or they're simply mistaken on the capabilities of the player. I wonder which one it is. Oh well, that's why I was asking for people who actually owned the unit.

Thank you!
post #12741 of 16449
Some earlier Oppo players could play .iso files with the proper firmware edition, but not the 10x series. They will play .mkv files. See the FAQ in the first post in this thread for a list of what is and isn't currently supported.
post #12742 of 16449
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdbuzz View Post

No kidding? Hmm. It seems a number of other forum posters across the web are either using 'iso' as a catch-all term or they're simply mistaken on the capabilities of the player. I wonder which one it is. Oh well, that's why I was asking for people who actually owned the unit.

Thank you!
Not only does Bill own a player, he's the one who maintains the very useful FAQ and part of the beta test group, so he generally knows what he's talking about wink.gif.

DVD ISOs aren't supported at all.

There are tricks that can be used to put BDMV structures into an AVCHD structure (search Google for bdmv modify), but don't count on those tricks surviving future pressure from the movie studios. Aside from the BDMV modify trick, much of this topic is covered in the FAQ, which you should read - there are links to it in the first post of this thread and in Bill's signature.

Your first question is kind of broad to answer, but the short answer is that yes, people have found some combinations that don't work. The FAQ lists the supported CODECs, so that's a good starting point. If you have a supported container type that has supported CODECs inside, you should be good to go.
Edited by gsr - 10/31/13 at 7:03pm
post #12743 of 16449
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzGuyy View Post

Some earlier Oppo players could play .iso files with the proper firmware edition, but not the 10x series. They will play .mkv files. See the FAQ in the first post in this thread for a list of what is and isn't currently supported.

Ah, yes. Thank you for elaborating on that! I went and dug back through my research and found those posts were 2012 or earlier. That explains why nothing newer than that came up. Thank you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Not only does Bill own a player, he's the one who maintains the very useful FAQ and part of the beta test group, so he generally knows what he's talking about wink.gif.

DVD ISOs aren't supported at all.

There are tricks that can be used to put BDMV structures into an AVCHD structure (search Google for bdmv modify), but don't count on those tricks surviving future pressure from the movie studios. Aside from the BDMV modify trick, this is covered in the FAQ, which you should read - there are links to it in the first post of this thread and in Bill's signature.

Your first question is kind of broad to answer, but the short answer is that yes, people have found some combinations that don't work. The FAQ lists the supported CODECs, so that's a good starting point. If you have a supported container type that has supported CODECs inside, you should be good to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzGuyy View Post

Some earlier Oppo players could play .iso files with the proper firmware edition, but not the 10x series. They will play .mkv files. See the FAQ in the first post in this thread for a list of what is and isn't currently supported.

Yes, I saw the FAQ reference in his signature after his extremely short post.

I appreciate your expansion on this topic and info on the media files.

Thank you both!
post #12744 of 16449
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdbuzz View Post

Yes, I saw the FAQ reference in his signature after his extremely short post.

I appreciate your expansion on this topic and info on the media files.

Thank you both!
Quite honestly, his short post was probably the best advice as trying to use BDMV folder structures isn't overly practical and is pretty likely to disappear in future firmware updates, so it's probably best for a new owner to just assume the feature doesn't exist as buying a player such as this and refusing to upgrade the firmware out of fear that an undocumented feature you care about will go away is likely to turn into an exercise in frustration in that you'll eventually find a movie that won't play without a firmware upgrade or a new feature you want will show up in a firmware upgrade, forcing you to choose the undocumented feature or the fix / new feature.
post #12745 of 16449
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdbuzz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzGuyy View Post

Yes, I saw the FAQ reference in his signature after his extremely short post.
Another short piece of advise is don't buy any device with the expectation that it can be changed to do what you're looking for.
post #12746 of 16449
Hopefully Oppo will release a firmware update in the future that will enable HD Audio support for the HDMI Inputs smile.gif
post #12747 of 16449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louie_18 View Post

Hopefully Oppo will release a firmware update in the future that will enable HD Audio support for the HDMI Inputs smile.gif

That would solve all my problems.

I'm in a real pickle as I just have absolutely no way I can think of to play 3D media files with lossless audio on my HDMI 1.1 AVR.

I'm actually a little shocked absolutely nobody replied to either of my posts from a few days ago.

I guess I didn't ask the right questions. tongue.gif

--J
post #12748 of 16449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louie_18 View Post

Hopefully Oppo will release a firmware update in the future that will enable HD Audio support for the HDMI Inputs smile.gif
AFAIK, it's a hardware limitation, not something that can be changed in firmware.
post #12749 of 16449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louie_18 View Post

Hopefully Oppo will release a firmware update in the future that will enable HD Audio support for the HDMI Inputs smile.gif

It does allow HD audio on the inputs, but only LPCM.
post #12750 of 16449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

I am using oShare as my DLNA server. SMB does not have the ALL MUSIC option.

And yes, that is how quick the file indexing is for me for my media types that I have shared over an Ethernet connection.

Hmm, it appears that oShare is a Windows only application so I can't run that (I'm running FreeBSD as my file and DLNA server system). But perhaps I can try a different DLNA server than the mediatomb that I'm currently running that the 103 will work better with.
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