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Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 17

post #481 of 16396
Quote:
Originally Posted by x43x View Post

Ran through the Color Space tests with the Spears & Munsil disc. RGB Video was the winner with my Pioneer FD-151. Not a lot of difference with most of the test patterns, but the Chroma Multiburst and Chroma Zone tests were the deciding factors. Compared to RGB, the other options had brightness fall off.

VERY interesting....and also surprising, to me.
post #482 of 16396
Quote:
Originally Posted by x43x View Post

Ran through the Color Space tests with the Spears & Munsil disc. RGB Video was the winner with my Pioneer FD-151. Not a lot of difference with most of the test patterns, but the Chroma Multiburst and Chroma Zone tests were the deciding factors. Compared to RGB, the other options had brightness fall off.

It's pretty much the consensus opinion here at AVS that the Pioneer Kuro displays are happiest when fed RGB Video Level data format.
--Bob
post #483 of 16396
Quote:
Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

OK 103 ordered. Have a question about the HDMI inputs. Can I run the output of my D2 Pre/Pro through the 103? Is this going to create handshake hell? Bob have you tried this on the D2v? I'm hoping to only have one HDMI cable going to the projector from HDMI 1 on the 103.

I've not actually tried it, but it should work so long as you don't create a loop.

I.e., when playing a Blu-ray, you send HDMI 1 to your display and HDMI 2 to the Anthem for audio. The Anthem also receives video on that HDMI 2 and sends it off as HDMI to the Input on the 103, but no problem because the 103 is not listening to that Input.

When playing some other Source you set the Anthem to get audio and video from that Source and send video to an Input on the 103. Then you set the 103 to play from that Input. The video will go out HDMI 1 to the display. Meanwhile the Anthem will also be sending a stereo LPCM down-mix of audio into that Input as well, and the 103 will ship that back out the HDMI 2 output. But the Anthem isn't listening to that HDMI 2 cable so no problem.

The loop happens if you set the Anthem to listen to that HDMI 2 output from the 103 and also set the 103 to play the HDMI Input coming from the Anthem. That can't work. I'm not sure exactly how it will fail (signals muted to black or endless retries) but it will fail.

If you do cable up to try this, by all means report here as to how it works out for you.
--Bob
post #484 of 16396
I was going through the various loops in my head before I posted and couldn't see a reason not to do it. Mostly worried about handshake issues. Will report back.

What happens it I start daisy chaining 103s can I exceed 4K x 4K? biggrin.gif
post #485 of 16396
From the OPPO UK web site write-up on the European model BDP-103EU:

Quote:
Netflix Instant Streaming - Instantly watch TV shows & movies streaming from Netflix. Netflix "Just For Kids" is a special selection of kid-friendly TV episodes & movies for younger viewers. It is included with your Netflix unlimited streaming membership. Selected titles support features including 1080p video, 5.1ch audio, subtitles and alternative audio languages (Netflix not available in all countries. UK and Ireland now. Norway, Denmark, Sweden, and Finland expected in late 2012)

There is a cookie reserved for the first BDP-103EU owner in the UK/Ireland area who can confirm that the native Netflix app is present and working.
--Bob
post #486 of 16396
While scrolling on my 103 is usually much faster than my 93, anyone notice that sometimes it is sluggish? Usually when I'm scrolling up a long list of streamed files. I notice it more often on the up scrolling through the list than the down scrolling.

Anyone else experience this yet?
post #487 of 16396
Quote:
Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

I was going through the various loops in my head before I posted and couldn't see a reason not to do it. Mostly worried about handshake issues. Will report back.

What happens it I start daisy chaining 103s can I exceed 4K x 4K? biggrin.gif

Nope. The HDMI Inputs on the 103 do not accept 4K video.
--Bob
post #488 of 16396
Rats I though you were going to tell me I would create some kind of ripple or tear in the space-time continuum.
post #489 of 16396
^ No, but you might create a vacuum in your wallet....
--Bob
post #490 of 16396
Thanks Bob,

I too am not sure if the firmware in Roku Stick and Roku 2|XS are the same. I am glad to hear that other users have reported decidedly better picture quality on Netflix.

Andy
post #491 of 16396
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

While scrolling on my 103 is usually much faster than my 93, anyone notice that sometimes it is sluggish? Usually when I'm scrolling up a long list of streamed files. I notice it more often on the up scrolling through the list than the down scrolling.

Anyone else experience this yet?

The 103 will appear sluggish while it's still indexing a drive, or while you're in the network screen and it's still discovering shares. Drive indexing continues for a while after you enter that interface. Once it's fully indexed you shouldn't see any more of that.
post #492 of 16396
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

Anyone here have the Pansonic VT50? If so any handshake issues? I'm ordering one next month and want to make sure there aren't any surprises.

Im using mine with a 2011 Panasonic Plasma, and it works just fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post

I hear that a lot and even I myself sometimes have the same feeling but I find it hard to prove (like finding a scene that I can change between the two and always see the difference). Do you have any certain 1080/24p movie and scene where you see standalone player looks better?
Also has anyone seen lately any professional review doing such comparison (preferably with screenshots showing the difference) and what were the results?

Just in general veiwing. Owned one brand of Blu-ray player for awhile, switched to a Slim and thought I saw some issues (very minor). Went back to brand X, and even an Oppo 93, and issue I thought I saw was no more. Don't get me wrong, the PS3 looks good, but I think newer standalones can look better. A lot of reviewers will disagree, and since I can't do side by side, thats fine. YMMV, for me Im going to stick with Oppo for the long haul when it comes to movie playback.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

It's pretty much the consensus opinion here at AVS that the Pioneer Kuro displays are happiest when fed RGB Video Level data format.
--Bob

Ive also seen Samsung plasmas enjoy the RGB feed, according to spears and munsil.
post #493 of 16396
I haven't seen this question asked, nor does it show up in a thread search... Why does the 103 include 4K upconversion?

HDTVs can't make use of 4K images.

The one true 4K display I've used (Sony's 4K projector) that can accept a 4K input already has flawless 4K upconversion of HD sources. And it is REQUIRED that any new "real" 4K panels or projectors will also be doing internal 4K upconversion (otherwise they would display HD as a small image in the center of the screen surrounded by black or display SD as an even smaller image in the center of the screen). So if the video displays will upconvert to 4K why does a disc player need it? What is the benefit to the owner/user? And if there is no benefit (none that I can see), why spend time (and money) putting it in the 103's chip set?

Having multiple places in the playback chain to do things seems like a waste of money and adds unnecessary complexity to systems that are already so complex that only enthusiasts who stay current with home theater tech can understand them.
post #494 of 16396
I suspect that a year from now any player that doesn't have the feature will be considered obsolete, regardless of its actual value. They market is funny that way.

As to complexity, I agree, but market fashions change. A few years ago everyone wanted simple "transports". Now every toaster and doorbell has to support Netflix and a hundred A/V codecs.

-Bill
post #495 of 16396
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

While scrolling on my 103 is usually much faster than my 93, anyone notice that sometimes it is sluggish? Usually when I'm scrolling up a long list of streamed files. I notice it more often on the up scrolling through the list than the down scrolling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

The 103 will appear sluggish while it's still indexing a drive, or while you're in the network screen and it's still discovering shares. Drive indexing continues for a while after you enter that interface. Once it's fully indexed you shouldn't see any more of that.

Also remember that if you are using gracenote, that you will be adding delays to the player as it queries gracenote for the Album Art and metadata information for the file. So if you are trying to browse files real quickly, you might notice delays if you stop on a file long enough to query gracenote.
post #496 of 16396
Doug,
Here's how I look at it: Over the several year life cycle of the 103/105 it is not at all obvious that all 4K-capable displays will have quality 4K upscaling. As the price comes down on 4K displays, we'll see what happens. In general, having the option to do a function in more than one place adds a safety factor as well -- i.e., against bugs (as distinct from just corner cutting). As I'm sure you are aware, it is rather common to find bugs in video processing in displays, some of which never get fixed under the theory that if the customer really cares they'll go buy the next model.
--Bob
post #497 of 16396
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRBR View Post

thanks for the advice,the only problem is that i have a 3d tv and a non-3d receiver but i can get a 3d receiver instead of the oppo and use de ps3 insted.the other question that comes to my mind is if that technology (ex. QDEO) and all the procesors etc etc that oppo install on their BRs are not transmited to the lcd so we can see a difference between their PQ and and the PQ of a gaming console.

Digital video is 1s and 0s. A green pixel is represented by 1s and 0s, a salmon colored pixel is represented by different groups of 1s and 0s.

The whole point of accuracy in home theater is for the disc player to send the same 1s and 0s that were on the disc to the video display. That can't happen AT ALL with Blu-ray because discs are encoded with YCbCr 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 is what leaves the disc player (unless you select 4:4:4 or RGB but let's not muddy the discussion with that right now). If you convert the 4:2:0 on the disc properly, you get the desired 4:2:2 output and the fidelity of the disc player is "perfect" Historically, the Oppo disc players, PS3 and an occasional random model of disc player from some manufacturer have done this VERY accurately.

If the player "processes" the image in any way, it can change the 1s and 0s and you actually LOSE fidelity to the original images. Processing in a disc player is often touted, but it's not good if it messes with the images. If the processing is better because it converts SD to HD better or because it converts interlaced video to progressive video better... those are good things. But beyond that, you really don't want your disc player trying to "improve" images with "processing" of any kind. And as stated, the Oppo players, PS3 and the occasional random model from an Asian brand have been recognized for being exactly or very nearly "bit perfect" in their replication of the Blu-ray disc. As such, you won't see differences in imaqe quality of Blu-ray discs when you compare any of these "accurate" players, nor should you. If they are all sending nearly the same 1s and 0s, the images on the video display should be the same. Digital video isn't subject to the vagarities of digital music... in digital music, every little thing you change makes a sonic difference (mosly small, but still audible, though occasionally there can be larger differences, and compressed music sounds much worse than uncompressed/lossless digital music). But move to video and you no longer have the analog element of time like music has... music is continuous and timing of bits is very critical. Digital video loads entire frames into buffers where the bits sit still for some time interval (a relatively long rest in terms of all things digital). Once it is that frame's "turn" to be displayed, all 6 million+ pixels flash up on the display at the same time and sit there not doing anything for some other (relatively) long period of time (typically 1/24, 1/30, 1/48, 1/60, 1/72, 1/96, 1/120, 1/144, or 1/240 of a second depending on the display and source.

If the disc player changes the image (by processing), it is, by definition, adding inaccuracy. Video Products (as a group) are finally getting away from the idea that they MUST process the image in some way to distinguish themselves from other products. If the disc player has controls that change the image... that might be useful if the controls available somewhere else in the system cannot do the same job. But that's pretty rare. If there's a color control in the TV, having a Color control in the disc player is a bit superflous unless you want a different amount of Color boost or cut for Blu-ray but now you're talking about a personal preference thing that might be miles from accuracy. Pretty and accurate aren't the same thing to most people. For the same reason, there are no HDMI cables that change images in any way as long as the cable is well designed and is not losing signal strength as the signal passes through the cable. A well-designed HDMI cable can cost $0 ("free" in the box with some component) all the way up to $800+ for a 2m cable and much higher for long high-end cables for projectors. HDMI cables do have small differences in audio quality... but when it comes to images, if you think 1 cable makes "better" or "worse" images than another cable, you either have a defective cable or you are imagening the differences. I have seen people with 2 cables claim to see differences until I got them to begin to focus on perhaps 10% of the image area and change back and forth between their 2 cables... once you zoom in" you begin to realize that you aren't really seeing any differences.
post #498 of 16396
I should get mine on Friday. I'll be using it with a Pio 151. It sounds like I should set the HDMI Option to RGB Video Level. Should it be set to Source Direct, or 1080p for the best picture quality?
post #499 of 16396
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjf1 View Post

I should get mine on Friday. I'll be using it with a Pio 151. It sounds like I should set the HDMI Option to RGB Video Level. Should it be set to Source Direct, or 1080p for the best picture quality?

Don't use Source Direct unless you are intimately familiar with video processing features of your display (and any AVR involved).

-Bill
post #500 of 16396
Anyone pick up the Prometheus 4-disc set yet? I tried playing the BR extras disc and had some initial problems. First it said it was playing, but only showed black on my monitor. Buggered up HDMI handshake. Once I got the picture back, I couldn't select anything to play from the main menu. Powered everything off and back on and that did the trick. Others seem to be having similar problems with other players, and some are getting macro blocking during the feature movie.

Thanks FOX....
post #501 of 16396
Quote:
Originally Posted by x43x View Post

Anyone pick up the Prometheus 4-disc set yet? I tried playing the BR extras disc and had some initial problems. First it said it was playing, but only showed black on my monitor. Buggered up HDMI handshake. Once I got the picture back, I couldn't select anything to play from the main menu. Powered everything off and back on and that did the trick. Others seem to be having similar problems with other players, and some are getting macro blocking during the feature movie.
Thanks FOX....

I played the dics on my LG BP 620C and everything worked perfectly. Maybe you have a bad disc.
post #502 of 16396
Could also be 103 FW as well. Did you contact Oppo? I probably wont buy for another week, Im behind on flicks.
post #503 of 16396
Before trying to watch it I had been doing a lot of switching sources and changing settings. I'll chalk it up to that, plus the lovely authoring FOX does. After a system reboot it played fine. Since others have had similar issues with other players, I'll let Oppo know they should take a look.
post #504 of 16396
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Im using mine with a 2011 Panasonic Plasma, and it works just fine.

Thanks for letting me know. I like researching before a purchase if possible. You're experience is helpful.
post #505 of 16396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Also remember that if you are using gracenote, that you will be adding delays to the player as it queries gracenote for the Album Art and metadata information for the file. So if you are trying to browse files real quickly, you might notice delays if you stop on a file long enough to query gracenote.

I'll be honest I don't know what gracenote is - is that a way of gathering info on a file?
post #506 of 16396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

It's pretty much the consensus opinion here at AVS that the Pioneer Kuro displays are happiest when fed RGB Video Level data format.
--Bob

By any chance is there a consensus opinion on what the Panasonic VT50 displays are happiest with?
post #507 of 16396
So, since some of you now have your new player, I would assume that most of you would want to sell your 93?

Guess I'll have to check the classifieds?
post #508 of 16396
When prices for used Oppo players are so high, why not just get the new one?
post #509 of 16396
Might have been mentioned already, but another plus for using the A/V Split feature, even if you don't have a 3D TV...

Using HDMI 1 to the TV, audio will pass when your processor isn't turned on. Once the processor is on and handshake is confirmed for the audio on HDMI 2, it will mute the TV audio.

This will come in handy when it's late and I don't want to wake the neighbors. I can leave the processor off and just watch a movie through the TV.
post #510 of 16396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

Digital video is 1s and 0s. A green pixel is represented by 1s and 0s, a salmon colored pixel is represented by different groups of 1s and 0s.
The whole point of accuracy in home theater is for the disc player to send the same 1s and 0s that were on the disc to the video display. That can't happen AT ALL with Blu-ray because discs are encoded with YCbCr 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 is what leaves the disc player (unless you select 4:4:4 or RGB but let's not muddy the discussion with that right now). If you convert the 4:2:0 on the disc properly, you get the desired 4:2:2 output and the fidelity of the disc player is "perfect" Historically, the Oppo disc players, PS3 and an occasional random model of disc player from some manufacturer have done this VERY accurately.
If the player "processes" the image in any way, it can change the 1s and 0s and you actually LOSE fidelity to the original images. Processing in a disc player is often touted, but it's not good if it messes with the images. If the processing is better because it converts SD to HD better or because it converts interlaced video to progressive video better... those are good things. But beyond that, you really don't want your disc player trying to "improve" images with "processing" of any kind. And as stated, the Oppo players, PS3 and the occasional random model from an Asian brand have been recognized for being exactly or very nearly "bit perfect" in their replication of the Blu-ray disc. As such, you won't see differences in imaqe quality of Blu-ray discs when you compare any of these "accurate" players, nor should you. If they are all sending nearly the same 1s and 0s, the images on the video display should be the same.

Thanks for very detailed information. This is what I have understood about blu-ray players and that image quality on reference quality 24p blu-ray playback should look the same if players do it right without adding their "enhancements".
I'm shopping for a new main player to replace my nearly dead PS3 fat (I also have Panasonic BDT110 which is one of the few players with accurate output but I do prefer PS3 user interface and its lightning fast speed) and it started to look like instead of getting standalone player I will just get another PS3 but this time Slim model as old Fat are no being sold anymore. Oppo players have a lots of functions I don't need.

Sorry for OT but do you have experience is PS3 Slim blu-ray playback as good as it used to be in Fat models? I learned that Slim models are adding noise to their HDMi-output from this article: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-hdmi?page=3 (it is at the end of the page).
Any idea what visible problems that noise could cause? Also it is interesting that I don't recall seeing such comments in other PS3 Slim reviews but most of them seem to be dated sometime around 2009.
I asked the same question in PS3 thread but it seems there are very little activity or comments from professionals like you lately. Also it seems there are no new reviews of PS3. It would be interesting to hear how added features like 3D, DTS HD MA during 3D, 1080i deinterlacing etc. new functions have affected PS3 output or is it still 100% accurate as it used to be.
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