Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 226

I disagree. I used to have a 720p DLP, and BluRay discs absolutely looked better than SD DVDs on that display. BluRay will always look better than SD if you have an HD display, no matter what the native resolution. That being said, a 1080p display is even better.

Yes, that would indeed explain it.

Windows uses a variety of mechanisms to discover neighbouring devices in the local network, and one of those mechanisms is UPnP. If the players show up as unknown devices in Windows, it probably means that one of the other mechanisms was able to discover the player (as some entity on the network having an IP address), but that Windows was not successful in using the UPnP mechanism to find out more about said device (i.e. it could not use UPnP Discovery & Description processes to learn that the device is a Digital Media Renderer "DMR").

When the UPnP Discovery & Description processes are fully supported, then a player will appear as a DMR in Windows Networking, and also under the "Play To" context menu in Windows Media Player, and Windows Explorer.

Yup! The red lights explain it all. Confirming what I said in my prior post.

( As I said before, this is a pretty basic error that should never have gotten past their QC people... )

Given the earlier post and screen shot, I would be most surprised if a Windows 7 re-install would fix it. The problem seems clearly to be an Oppo problem not a Windows one.

I don't know it for a fact, but it could just be possible that a Windows clean install might reset Windows into being more lenient towards mis-behaved UPnP devices, but one would assume that such leniency would wear off over time. Wait and see...

Question regarding analog outputs and the subwoofer output level:

I learned here that the subwoofer RCA output is 10 db less than the other channels.

I set the speakers in the oppo to large because I use speaker management in my pre-pro. Since my speaker settings in the Oppo are set to large, then , wouldn't all the bass information be directed into the main channels? I am trying to determine if I need to boost my sub output, in my pre/pro, by 10 db,

I do cross my speakers over at 80 hz in my pre/pro.

Yes, you would need the boost but depending on how your pre/pro works, your settings in the pre/pro may be meaningless. For many pre/pros using analog inputs bypasses all processing so that settings for crossover and distance inside the pre/pro have no effect. Same for any room correction. For some pre/pros the crossover settings will work but not distance settings. Finally, there are some pre/pros that re-digitize analog input and apply all their settings, including room correction. You need to find out exactly what your pre/pro does with signals to its analog inputs.

Thanks Jazz-

I use a Lexicon MC-12 B which does allow me to adjust the sub output level.

We've been doing "Dinner and a movie" on Friday nights at my house. Like me, a bunch of older folks. Having no mid-movie breaks will be a challenge. I will get the 103 mailed out on Monday. Hopefully Oppo can find the problem.

Ditto here, I have the same two players and also just finished Grand Prix on HD-DVD (3 hours of eye candy)!

I will add that I also think the Toshiba handles poorly mastered DVDs with difficult de-interlacing better than any scaler I've got (Pioneer Elite 59, Anthem VXP, Sony BDP, Oppo BDP, Lumagen Radiance).

Just to clarify,

The Lexicon does re-digitizing of the input analog signals and applies full room correction, etc. The question is whether the signal that's mixed in with the large speaker output is lowered by 10 db (?) or left at full when not being sent through the subwoofer out.

Not sure. If you do use the sub out, you need to boost the signal at the Lexicon.

It may accept 1080i input format but the actual panel will have some other native resolution like 1366x768 (closer to 720p) which the TV has to scale everything to. You could actually benefit from a video processor that allows CUSTOM scaling to your native res (not an Oppo) if the TV even accepts it, but it would likely cost more than a new 1080p TV.

Also depending on how close you sit to the TV and how big it is, you may not see any difference between 720p and 1080p. What you will notice is the deeper black levels and fuller color gamut over your early generation plasma. There is also 1080p/24fps support for smoother film cadence, etc.
Edited by AVfile - 3/20/13 at 9:59am

Hi guys
I own an Onkyo TXNR-3010, I have connected the Oppo via HDMI 1, here are my questions:

- I prefer the Onkyo doing the video processing (on top of that, because I am using both Onkyo HDMI outs, I cannot change resolution -it is automatically set to Auto, matching panel resolution which in my case is 1080p for TV and projector).
- Should then (given the above) set the Oppo in "Source Direct"?
- If sticking to HDMI 1, should I go for Sharpness control +1?
- I think I will stick to color space 4:4:4
- Do I leave 1080p24 on?
- DVD24p conversion: should I leave it on or off (I think it doesn't affect to Pal DVDs or BR discs)?
- Currently I set the audio to Bitstream, but I've read about a bug and I'd probably should stick to LPCM for the moment.
- The other day I watched the Top Gun DVD and it look really awful, any suggestion to improve quality?

Thanks so much guys
Edited by pablofu - 3/20/13 at 12:05pm

I agree, but it sounded like he only had funds for one or the other. I feel he would get more benefit from a full HD display. (I came from a Panny 720p plasma)

Thanks. Any thoughts about the other settings?
- Which colour space for HDMI2?
- LPCM or Bitstream?
- 1080p24 on?
- DVD24p conversion?

THANKS again

Greetings.

I have had my Oppo BDP-103 for about a week now and have had a dilemma about the way I should hook it up. I have been reading posts here and other forums and have seen a lot of hdmi 1 vs hdmi 2 posts on what is better.

I have an integra DHC-80.3 and like dsd bitstream so I need to use hdmi 2, but had concerns over the video quality out of this.
Using hdmi 1 out to my projector and hdmi 2 to the processor wasn't an option due to multiple sources.

I emailed Oppo a couple times, and called them, and the responses I received was that if you don't use 4k ,Nr, or contrast enhancement both hdmi outputs are the same. All video scaling and de-interlacing is done by the decoder and that the marvel solution will only be used when these picture enhacements are applied via hdmi 1.

So for anybody wanting the single cable solution and want to bitstream dsd(if your processor will handle it), and don't use the above enhancements, no worries hdmi 2 is fine.

YCbCr 4:4:4 is the default with Auto. I would set that explicitly as a starting point. You can experiment with a calibration disc later if you like.

They should produce identical results, but LPCM is more trouble-free.


These are both up to you. Try them and see. If your display accepts 24hz, then why not?

DVD24p applies only to NTSC DVDs, and you have to manually disable it when playing discs that have no film cadence. The FAQ linked in my signature has details.

-Bill

They didn't happen to say anything about the reported color/luminance errors on HDMI 2, did they? Last I checked with them
(a couple of weeks ago) they were still researching, although they seemed to be leaning toward the idea that something
real was going on...

The 3D Blu-ray is an entirely new and improved transfer. Unfortunately, it's been recolored into teal & orange and is only playable in 3D. The 2D copy in the same package is the old disc with the dated, dingy master.

Update: I just ran the Oppo against the official UPnP Certification test tool v2.0. This tool runs a suite of around 100 tests on the device to verify its conformity to the UPnP standard.

Of these 100 or so tests, the Oppo failed 6 of the tests outright, and it got warnings (e.g. for semantic or timing erros) on a further 12 of the tests.

Bob you are the best and I am totally embarrassed. I pulled the coaxial cable from the cable box and the hum vanished. Perfect silence. I can't believe I didn't think of the cable box as being the source of the problem. Repair arriving in the a.m.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!

Now a SUPER satisfied Oppo owner!

Cool! Or as I sometimes say, "Suddenly! As if by logic!"

Just so you understand what's going on here, the cable TV feed is a shielded cable. The shield sheaths the cable and is supposed to keep outside interference from screwing up the real cable signal. But that sheath is a conductor in its own right and so it will carry whatever external garbage it picks up looking for a path back to ground to dump it. Cable lines typically are run on power poles, and so one of the main sources of garbage is the interference radiated by the power lines.

Now, what's SUPPOSED to happen is that where the cable feed enters your house there should be a good ground connection from the exterior attachment box to "real" ground. I mean well into the dirt or a clean connection to something metal that goes well into the dirt. This is the thing that's usually screwed up. The ground connection either doesn't exist, or is connected to a pipe that turns into PVC plastic before it goes into the dirt, or the connections are loose or corroded.

A secondary problem can happen inside the walls of your house. The cable shield can pick up interference along its run from the outside box to your set top box -- perhaps from power lines inside the walls. Now this will typically be smaller amounts of interference, but still stuff you don't want. What's supposed to happen is that the shield of the in-wall cable carries that stuff back to the outside attachment box, and thence to ground through its ground wire. But those cables in the walls are often installed by contractors who come from the school of shoddy. The raw wire run through the walls needs to have the little metal plugs attached at each end, and if the contractor rushes the job the installed plug-end doesn't actually make electrical contact with the cable shield. So the shield of that in-wall cable is "floating" -- not connected to ground. If it finds a path to ground through your equipment then interference picked up in-wall will be dumped out that way. The real fix is to cut off and re-attach the plugs, but typically for in-wall problems the repair guy will take the much quicker step of installing a "hum blocker".

A hum-blocker is a cheap, cylindrical adapter that gets attached in-line on that cable feed -- usually right before it screws into your set top box. It is a zero gain transformer with no electrical connection between the cable shield on either side. The cable TV signal passes through the transformer, but garbage on the shield of the cable can't get past it. Voila!

The problem is that because these are CHEAP transformers, and because the cable TV signal covers such a wide range of frequencies, installing one of these may result in weakening of signal for some your your channels. Depending on whether any of your channels were weak to begin with, you might even lose some channels. That still may be better than getting to the plug ends of the in-wall cable!

With that background, the thing to understand is that the typical cable guy will reach for a "hum blocker" as the *FIRST* thing to try. And that's not good. Although it will "work" -- i.e., your noise will go away -- you do have that problem of weakening some channels.

But more important, if the exterior cable feed is not properly grounded to begin with, a "hum blocker" won't fix that. And that ground connection is not just to keep noise from getting into your system. It also is needed to keep surges from entering your house on the shield of that cable feed!

Bottom line: Insist that the repair guy check and correct the grounding of the external feed *FIRST*. Use of a "hum blocker" should be the fix of last choice -- i.e., after you learn that fixing the external ground doesn't completely eliminate the problem.

NOTE: Make sure your cable plugs are screwed down tight. A loosely screwed cable plug will also not have as good a ground connection to the shield of the cable.
--Bob

AndrewFG and Calpon,

I've posted your UPnP findings to Beta Test Club so the other Beta Testers can follow along if they've missed your posts here.

One point that I'm not clear on, though. If I understand correctly, the 103/105 are not generic UPnP devices. They are certified as DLNA devices with Digital Media Renderer support. It wouldn't surprise me if that makes a difference. Nevertheless what you are finding in the UPnP testing may still apply.
--Bob

The only problem in regards to that was in the color space 4:2:2......When using 4:4:4 there isn't an issue

Ok. Thanks.

Nooo, not really...

There are in fact many layers of specifications involved:

• The foundation of UPnP is built on a raft of standard Internet technologies such as TCP, UDP, XML, HTML, SSDP, HTTP, SOAP and the like.
  
• The common functionality shared by all UPnP devices is defined in its so called Device Architecture specification This defines all the basic mechanisms for device advertisement, discovery, description, control, eventing and presentation.
  
• On top of this, UPnP has explicit specifications for particular classes of UPnP devices (such as printers, internet gateways, home automation, and indeed digital media servers "DMS", renderers "DMR" and control points). These are called Device Control Protocols, and they define what properties ("state variables") such a device must offer, and what methods ("actions") it shall implement to act on those properties. In the case of a Digital Media Renderer this includes properties like "volume", "playing state", "track position", "track url", and methods like Play, Stop, SetVolume, GetVolume etc. etc. The upnp.org association has a device certification process and test tool suite whereby manufacturers can test and confirm if their devices are conform to the UPnP specifications.
  
• And yet on top of the UPnP specification for DMR & DMS is the DLNA (Digital Living Netwoprk Alliance) specification. This adds more precision and stringency to ensure better interworking. To put it simply, where the UPnP specifications say "may", the DLNA specifications tend to say "must" (or "shall not"). So for example where the UPnP specs say that a DMR may support any kind of music format that the manufacturer chooses, the DLNA specs say that it must always support at least the LPCM format under all circumstances (thus ensuring a basic minimum common interworking standard across all manufacturers). The DLNA organisation also has a device certification process and test tool suite whereby manufacturers can test and confirm if their devices are conform to the DLNA specifications; but one of the underlying requirements to pass the DLNA certification test is that it must have also passed the UPnP certification test.

Edited by AndrewFG - 3/21/13 at 2:48am

Is that what Oppo told you? With a Lumagen Radiance video processor Oppo's HDMI 2 output fails all 3 color space tests for up sampling. Others have reported that the oppo passes on one or more color spaces for their displays. Unless Oppo has had every possible display and vp possibility tested, the statement that only 422 fails is false until proven otherwise.

^ It doesn't work that way. The signal is either correct on the HDMI output or not. What any given video processor or display does next is irrelevant.
--Bob

Using your own logic, one could also say that your Radiance (or display) is failing the color space tests - until proven otherwise.

My 103 passes all available color tests, in every color space, on both HDMI outputs.

Good description. I've worked with standards and specs before, though and some are not enforced as tightly as others. Some fields and functions are optional, etc. In the case of UPnP, since you have good experience, Is the certification process known and required before being able to go on and become a certified DLNA provider?

DLNA capability is available in many devices, are all of those going through certification and exhaustive testing? I ask because Oppo engineering seems to make a good effort, and for them to dispense with a standard certification process seems unusual. I've gone through Microsoft certification and Underwriters labs certification with my products, and those were exhaustive and mandated before you could put the logo on the box - does UPnP or DLNA certification require the same rigor?

Like I said, not experienced in this, so looking to learn.

Perhaps we ought to start a list of displays and devices that pass or fail by color space from HDMI 2. As I have stated previously, both the Radiance and my Elite fail all 3 whether Source Direct or not. The Radiance passes all 3 on HDMI 1 Source Direct as did my previous Oppo 83. Evidently the Qdeo chip fixes the problem. If it weren't for the Qdeo noise reduction on HDMI 1 Source Direct I would be very happy with the 103. As it is, I have increased the Radiance's sharpness/texture enhancements by 2-3x what I used with the 83 to compensate. Regarding proven otherwise, i asked Lumagen to check into the problem, they found it to be the Oppo not the Radiance. Lumagen provides frequent firmware updates to fix compatibility issues with source devices, most within a few days of someone finding the problem.