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Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 24

post #691 of 16413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ When the Moon hits your eye like a bigga pizza pie.... biggrin.gif

I like your sense of humor; not to mention your choice of words and phrases. smile.gif
post #692 of 16413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ As stated in prior posts, personally I've switched to the 103. In addition to scaling and de-interlacing improvement over the 93, it also has significant improvements in DVD 24p Conversion over the 83.

Does DVD 24p playback/conversion actually improve the enjoyment of a DVD movie?

And does 24p playback/conversion apply to ordinary DVD movies?
post #693 of 16413
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ As stated in prior posts, personally I've switched to the 103. In addition to scaling and de-interlacing improvement over the 93, it also has significant improvements in DVD 24p Conversion over the 83.

Does DVD 24p playback/conversion actually improve the enjoyment of a DVD movie?

And does 24p playback/conversion apply to ordinary DVD movies?

Yes it applies to "ordinary" SD-DVD movies, so long as what's on disc represents a decent transfer of the movie to disc. Whether it improves your enjoyment of the movie depends on what your Display does when fed 1080p/24 instead of 1080p/60.

The idea of DVD 24p Conversion is to retrieve the original 24 frames per second frame rate of a film-based movie to eliminate the "cadence judder" inherent in raising that to 60 frames a second (since 24 does not go into 60 evenly). Some Displays that accept 1080p/24 input actually display it at /60 ANYWAY -- so the "cadence judder" is back. Other Displays have various bugs which impact their quality when fed /24. Check in the owner's thread here for your Display.

Also be aware that SD-DVDs of content original produced at video rate (30 or 60 frames per second) should not be converted to /24 output as there is no way to delete the extra frames without causing problems -- "frame drop stutter" -- which are quite a bit worse than "cadence judder". Many typical TV shows sold on SD-DVD will be in this category of course.

And even some movie SD-DVDs have poor quality transfers to disc so that the original 24fps can not be extracted cleanly.

Simply put, if you see jerky motion, particularly in pans where most of the screen is in motion at the same time, then you know you are playing an SD-DVD which is not appropriate for DVD 24p Conversion. So just turn it off -- you can do that "on the fly" while playing the disc -- and enjoy the rest of the movie at /60.

To get a feel for what I"m talking about -- and assuming you have an AVR/Display combo that accepts and retains /24 video in the first place -- set 1080p Resolution, 1080p/24 Auto and DVD 24p Conversion ON, and load "Shakespeare in Love", SD-DVD. The Miramax logo which plays BEFORE you get to the disc's menu is video rate content. Note the jerkiness of the vertical pan. However the identical looking Miramax logo that starts the film itself is recorded at film rate. Note the smoothness of that vertical pan.

If you turn DVD 24p Conversion OFF, both of those logos will look smooth. In fact the second one, the one that starts the movie, has "cadence judder" since it is /24 content which you have now raised to /60 frame rate. But cadence judder is MUCH harder to see than frame drop stutter.

Indeed, you've been seeing "cadence judder" your whole life -- any time you watched a movie on broadcast TV. The brain is very good at ignoring it. Many folks, even when told to look for it, won't spot it until they have a chance to see it side by side in a "judder free" playback. One of the easiest places to spot it is in the End Credits of most movies. With cadence judder, the vertical scroll of those credits will have a slightly "ratcheting" appearance.

(Folks who report they can spot cadence judder easily in some movies are most likely seeing a different defect in the making of the movie -- such as the "motion judder" which results from trying to capture motion at a mere 24 frames per second. 1080p/24 output won't eliminate "motion judder". It even shows in movie theater presentations. It's something camera operators are well aware of and work to eliminate during filming -- tricks like blurring focus of distant objects during a pan. Nevertheless, some films still get released with inherent motion judder in certain scenes.)
--Bob
Edited by Bob Pariseau - 10/14/12 at 9:45am
post #694 of 16413
I read literally a thousand posts of user reports here when the 93 when it came out. There were many reports of the DVD upscaling not being as good, but nothing much about AVI/MKV upscaling.

Lately I have been setting up friends and family with TV/blu-ray combos, so have had inhouse the Sony 380, Pioneer BDP-150 and Panasonic entry level. All of them have been superior at AVI/MKV upscaling than the 93. This is very disapointing considering these machines are entry level and under $150 price.

People are getting defensive, but I just wish this aspect of the player was looked at. At the end of the day I'm still getting an Oppo 103, because it has a great feature set, but really because I have to have the latest model of anything.
post #695 of 16413
^ If you have practical examples (not too large) of AVI or MKV files which show the problems you are seeing on the 93, please get them to OPPO Tech Support along with details of what you are seeing. Also be sure to describe how you have the player cabled and your video settings. There may be some OTHER bug at work here than the upscaling algorithm.

Also, be sure to report which firmware you are using. If you've been retaining old firmware, that may be part of the problem.
--Bob
post #696 of 16413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian-HD View Post

83 still rules over 103 for DVD playback in my opinion.

My memory is a little suspect as it relates to the 83 so I can't make an accurate assessment comparing it to the 103 since I no longer own the 83. However, I definitely preferred the 83 over the 93 and I haven’t spent any time watching DVDs on the 103 as of yet.

Can any of the present owners download these FLAC files from Media Fire and see if you can play them? Presently my 103 will not playe these.



http://www.mediafire.com/?h9l391xnvcx8et4,6etw46a97hwoesi
post #697 of 16413
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

I'll be honest I don't know what gracenote is - is that a way of gathering info on a file?

ABOUT GRACENOTE (http://www.gracenote.com/about/)

Gracenote provides the largest database of music and video metadata and is the world’s leading distributor of this content. The Gracenote database includes descriptions of more than 130 million tracks, as well as filmmaker and cast bios for movies, TV listings, and Album and Movie Cover Art. All of this information is paired with Gracenote technology to help power the world’s hottest music and video products, from Apple iTunes and HTC smart phones to Ford Sync and Sony BRAVIA TVs.

How do consumers interact with Gracenote? When music fans pop a CD into their computer, Gracenote identifies the music and delivers Artist, Album and Song Information and Cover Art. When car owners connect their smart phone to an infotainment system in millions of vehicles, Gracenote lets them search songs, create playlists and pick artists with simple voice commands. And, when TV viewers are picking shows to watch, Gracenote provides local and national TV listings, and helps them discover new programs.
post #698 of 16413
Anyone using the 103 with the ROKU Stick?
post #699 of 16413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ If you have practical examples (not too large) of AVI or MKV files which show the problems you are seeing on the 93, please get them to OPPO Tech Support along with details of what you are seeing. Also be sure to describe how you have the player cabled and your video settings. There may be some OTHER bug at work here than the upscaling algorithm.
Also, be sure to report which firmware you are using. If you've been retaining old firmware, that may be part of the problem.
--Bob

I appreciate the advice, but my Cambridge Audio 751BD had the exact same issue, it also uses the same Mediatek SDK reference board design as the Oppo 93/95. I always have latest firmware, ISF tech calibrated Sony HX900, all players sets to RGB output for consistency e.t.c e.t.c
post #700 of 16413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agisthos View Post

I read literally a thousand posts of user reports here when the 93 when it came out. There were many reports of the DVD upscaling not being as good, but nothing much about AVI/MKV upscaling.
Lately I have been setting up friends and family with TV/blu-ray combos, so have had inhouse the Sony 380, Pioneer BDP-150 and Panasonic entry level. All of them have been superior at AVI/MKV upscaling than the 93. This is very disapointing considering these machines are entry level and under $150 price.
People are getting defensive, but I just wish this aspect of the player was looked at. At the end of the day I'm still getting an Oppo 103, because it has a great feature set, but really because I have to have the latest model of anything.

I will have to defer to your experience with entry level players since I have none. I personally don’t require AVI/MKV support, but I do understand the importance for those who do. Also, this is subjective because I don’t think all owners are disappointed in the playback of AVI/MKV files with the BDP-93 as I have read postings from happy owners. Hopefully, the BDP-103 will improve on the playback of AVI/MKV files for those owners who were disappointed in the BDP-93.smile.gif
post #701 of 16413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agisthos View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ If you have practical examples (not too large) of AVI or MKV files which show the problems you are seeing on the 93, please get them to OPPO Tech Support along with details of what you are seeing. Also be sure to describe how you have the player cabled and your video settings. There may be some OTHER bug at work here than the upscaling algorithm.
Also, be sure to report which firmware you are using. If you've been retaining old firmware, that may be part of the problem.
--Bob

I appreciate the advice, but my Cambridge Audio 751BD had the exact same issue, it also uses the same Mediatek SDK reference board design as the Oppo 93/95. I always have latest firmware, ISF tech calibrated Sony HX900, all players sets to RGB output for consistency e.t.c e.t.c

I don't follow. What does this have to do with whether OPPO might be able to find and fix a bug?
--Bob
post #702 of 16413
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

My memory is a little suspect as it relates to the 83 so I can't make an accurate assessment comparing it to the 103 since I no longer own the 83. However, I definitely preferred the 83 over the 93 and I haven’t spent any time watching DVDs on the 103 as of yet.
Can any of the present owners download these FLAC files from Media Fire and see if you can play them? Presently my 103 will not playe these.
http://www.mediafire.com/?h9l391xnvcx8et4,6etw46a97hwoesi

My 103 is playing Flac files from HDTracks without issues with cover art. John Coltrane, Jen Chapin, Claudia Acuna........... are playing to perfection. smile.gif
Edited by Brian-HD - 10/14/12 at 12:12pm
post #703 of 16413
Can somebody tell me if the addition of cinavia to the 103 has prevented them from seeing their BD backups. No use in buying the player if I cant play me discs.
post #704 of 16413
I have 1080P connected to HDMI 1 and a 720P TV connected to HDMI 2... With "Auto" set for resolution, will HDMI 1 and 2 output both 1080P and 720P respectively at the same time, or will both ports put out only 720P (always the same rez)?
post #705 of 16413
Bob,

Will there be FW release before general release?

Just to make a point, I finally used the the front input on my Apple TV G3. I am really impressed by the improvements of the video quality.
Edited by Brian-HD - 10/14/12 at 12:47pm
post #706 of 16413
Someone mentioned it earlier so I just tried hooking my BT keyboard up to the 103 and it was WONDERFUL for netflix and you tube. I'm not sure if a mouse could be used as I wasn't able to use my mouse (I didn't try very hard) but a combination of a keyboard and mouse would be great for searching then scrolling. If Logitech doesn't release the 800 soon, I'm ordering a BT keyboard dedicated for my 103.

If search was added as a function of streaming media from the PC the keyboard would change the whole experience from great to SUPERB.


Has anyone tried using their wireless mouse with the 103?
Edited by boe - 10/14/12 at 1:44pm
post #707 of 16413
Well, I am just surprised that the front input for cable box, Apple TV......... is not having more posts on for picture quality improvements.
Edited by Brian-HD - 10/14/12 at 1:38pm
post #708 of 16413
Quote:
Originally Posted by jconde View Post

Can somebody tell me if the addition of cinavia to the 103 has prevented them from seeing their BD backups. No use in buying the player if I cant play me discs.

Your understanding of Cinavia is lacking. No, it has no bearing on what files the player can access.
post #709 of 16413
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

Can any of the present owners download these FLAC files from Media Fire and see if you can play them? Presently my 103 will not playe these.



http://www.mediafire.com/?h9l391xnvcx8et4,6etw46a97hwoesi

The BDP-93 plays them but the BDP-103 does not. I'll forward this link to Oppo so they can look into it.
post #710 of 16413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanadu View Post

I have 1080P connected to HDMI 1 and a 720P TV connected to HDMI 2... With "Auto" set for resolution, will HDMI 1 and 2 output both 1080P and 720P respectively at the same time, or will both ports put out only 720P (always the same rez)?
Both in 720P to make sure you can see the pictures on both televisions.
post #711 of 16413
Whats this "DVD" thingy you guys keep going on about? Does the 103 play laserdisc? wink.gif
post #712 of 16413
Will you explain cinavia to me please.
post #713 of 16413
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Your understanding of Cinavia is lacking. No, it has no bearing on what files the player can access.

So my Blu ray clones should play just as well on this post February 2012 player as on my older sony? I would appreciate more detail.
post #714 of 16413
Quote:
Originally Posted by jconde View Post

So my Blu ray clones should play just as well on this post February 2012 player as on my older sony? I would appreciate more detail.

If they have Cinavia (not many do yet), NO.

http://www.mediasmartserver.net/2011/02/01/cinavia-what-is-it-and-why-you-should-care/
post #715 of 16413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian-HD View Post

Bob,

Will there be FW release before general release?

Just to make a point, I finally used the the front input on my Apple TV G3. I am really impressed by the improvements of the video quality.

The Beta Testers are not supposed to comment on upcoming firmware releases -- either what's expected to be included or when they might come out.
--Bob
post #716 of 16413
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Whats this "DVD" thingy you guys keep going on about? Does the 103 play laserdisc? wink.gif

Alas, no. Nor player piano rolls.
--Bob
post #717 of 16413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Yes it applies to "ordinary" SD-DVD movies, so long as what's on disc represents a decent transfer of the movie to disc. Whether it improves your enjoyment of the movie depends on what your Display does when fed 1080p/24 instead of 1080p/60.
The idea of DVD 24p Conversion is to retrieve the original 24 frames per second frame rate of a film-based movie to eliminate the "cadence judder" inherent in raising that to 60 frames a second (since 24 does not go into 60 evenly). Some Displays that accept 1080p/24 input actually display it at /60 ANYWAY -- so the "cadence judder" is back. Other Displays have various bugs which impact their quality when fed /24. Check in the owner's thread here for your Display.
Also be aware that SD-DVDs of content original produced at video rate (30 or 60 frames per second) should not be converted to /24 output as there is no way to delete the extra frames without causing problems -- "frame drop stutter" -- which are quite a bit worse than "cadence judder". Many typical TV shows sold on SD-DVD will be in this category of course.
And even some movie SD-DVDs have poor quality transfers to disc so that the original 24fps can not be extracted cleanly.
Simply put, if you see jerky motion, particularly in pans where most of the screen is in motion at the same time, then you know you are playing an SD-DVD which is not appropriate for DVD 24p Conversion. So just turn it off -- you can do that "on the fly" while playing the disc -- and enjoy the rest of the movie at /60.
To get a feel for what I"m talking about -- and assuming you have an AVR/Display combo that accepts and retains /24 video in the first place -- set 1080p Resolution, 1080p/24 Auto and DVD 24p Conversion ON, and load "Shakespeare in Love", SD-DVD. The Miramax logo which plays BEFORE you get to the disc's menu is video rate content. Note the jerkiness of the vertical pan. However the identical looking Miramax logo that starts the film itself is recorded at film rate. Note the smoothness of that vertical pan.
If you turn DVD 24p Conversion OFF, both of those logos will look smooth. In fact the second one, the one that starts the movie, has "cadence judder" since it is /24 content which you have now raised to /60 frame rate. But cadence judder is MUCH harder to see than frame drop stutter.
Indeed, you've been seeing "cadence judder" your whole life -- any time you watched a movie on broadcast TV. The brain is very good at ignoring it. Many folks, even when told to look for it, won't spot it until they have a chance to see it side by side in a "judder free" playback. One of the easiest places to spot it is in the End Credits of most movies. With cadence judder, the vertical scroll of those credits will have a slightly "ratcheting" appearance.
(Folks who report they can spot cadence judder easily in some movies are most likely seeing a different defect in the making of the movie -- such as the "motion judder" which results from trying to capture motion at a mere 24 frames per second. 1080p/24 output won't eliminate "motion judder". It even shows in movie theater presentations. It's something camera operators are well aware of and work to eliminate during filming -- tricks like blurring focus of distant objects during a pan. Nevertheless, some films still get released with inherent motion judder in certain scenes.)
--Bob

Bob,

Will you get any benefit if you are viewing a 1080i feed from Directv that is already upscaled to 1080p, by additionally turning on DVD 24p Conversion (or some other 103 setting)?

Thanks for the information.

H Reed
post #718 of 16413
Quote:
Originally Posted by amoladikwig View Post

Anyone using the 103 with the ROKU Stick?

Yes. I wrote up some stuff on the Roku Streaming Stick earlier in this very thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1432162/official-oppo-bdp-103-owners-thread/270#post_22467855

--Bob
post #719 of 16413
Quote:
Originally Posted by sta363 View Post

Bob,

Will you get any benefit if you are viewing a 1080i feed from Directv that is already upscaled to 1080p, by additionally turning on DVD 24p Conversion (or some other 103 setting)?

Thanks for the information.

H Reed

Nope. DVD 24p Conversion functions only when playing shiny disc SD-DVDs.

To get 1080p/24 output from the OPPO when playing HDMI input from your DirecTV Source you would need to find a way to get the DirecTV box to output 1080p/24 itself (and then also set 1080p/24 Auto in the OPPO).
--Bob
post #720 of 16413
Star Trek BD,
I finally rubbed out the spot on my Blu Ray disk where it stopped playing. It took several polishes with a good cleaner and cloth but was rewarded for the effort. I should invest in some sort of way to backup my Blu Rays as many here are doing.
Dave
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