or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Players ›  Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 242

post #7231 of 16357
Forget this whole hdmi1 vs hdmi2 aka NR issue.

I JUST WANT TO USE HDMI INPUT WITHOUT CHOPPY CLAYMATION MOTION!!!! ARG YOU BETA FIRMWARE!!!!!!
post #7232 of 16357
Quote:
Originally Posted by gweempose View Post

I'm still within the 30 day return window for my 103. I have to admit, I'm a bit surprised by all the complaints. If I had realized there were so many issues with the machine, I probably wouldn't have bought it. I'm almost thinking I should return it and get something else while I still can.

It's a mistake to found your happiness or unhappiness on other people's reports.

Still: returning it means you won't have to worry about it. You just have to switch to the perfect BR player that no one complains about.

-Bill
post #7233 of 16357
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckronengold View Post

Of course! I've got Spears and Munsil. I was just hoping there might be more of a "real world" example that people agreed upon. And with the quickness with which some people are seeing dramatic differences, I was hoping maybe not to need to bust out the test patterns.

And kudos to you for making it clear that this is some very nit-picky stuff we're dealing with. If I didn't already own my 103, and read this forum before buying, I'd be scared about my purchase. But this thing is simply awesome, and I guess this forum wants to make it as awesome as can be. Can't fault them for that, but dang! You'd think half the folks in the forum were watching laser discs.

First of all - and I'm one of the complainers - if it's looking good to you that's the really important thing. Each of us has different
things that bother us or don't (take plasma buzz - it drives some people crazy, others can't even hear it, sometimes on the same
display! No right or wrong, just different).

Also, since there are only some of us who are less than gleeful, we may well be crazy obsessive types (very possible - wouldn't
something like AVS tend to draw people who spend too much time worrying about 3% performance differences?) but different displays
could also play a role (interesting that there seem to be a lot of Kuros among those of us who are whining).

If you want to try and see it in 'real world' action, you're best off starting with an SD-DVD, since that automatically kicks up the NR on the
QEDO to a higher gear. Types of things where you can notice it are; hair or beards in harshly lit medium or closer shots - how much detail
do you see? Or, do the whites of eyes or other details start to disappear in shadowy, dark lighting, in looser shots (those were two
of the first things I noticed). Very contrasty scenes will bring it out more, there's a fall of of detail in shadow areas. Black and white
is good, film noir, even the grain of the film itself...

And even then, it's not screamingly obvious. I noticed it on films I knew really well, and I was specifically looking to
judge how I felt the new player performed. Then I confirmed by plugging in direct from the player to the same input in my Kuro
(taking anything else out of the circuit). I tried the 103 on HDMI 1, then 2, and then my old Oppo 983. Repeated several times
with several scenes. Watching the same scenes from each output produced some subtle but clear characteristics to each image.

Now, what's important is that none of the images were 'bad'. They all were very nice and watchable. But in watching
films I helped master, there were certain details (minor ones) that started to disappear on HDMI 1. Also there was
an artificial jump in contrast. That was eye catching, it even looked 'good' the way an over bright set can do at first
when it catches your eye, it had nice 'pop' but it wasn't the way it was mastered.

Again, if you're happy, you may not want to spend a lot of time on this. Once you see it (if you do) it may drive
you crazy knowing it's there, and you might never have given it a second thought otherwise.

All I'd suggest, as a film-maker, is that if you were watching a film of mine, especially on SD-DVD I'd rather you see it on HDMI 2,
because you're seeing something a touch closer to what I intended. So I would suggest HDMI 2 as a starting place if
you want the more neutral, unaffected image.

But, yes, you are talking subtle and arguably nit-picky things. But to some people they, subjectively, feel bigger.

I'm nowhere near as (over?) sensitive on sound. I hardly hear the difference between
$600 and $10,000 amplifiers. They usually sound very similar to me - maybe a tiny difference. I
have audiophile and musician friends who think I'm nuts (and deaf) for not hearing what they perceive
as tremendous differences. Are they 'right?' Should I feel bad for being happy with my equipment?

Anyway, hope that's helpful.
Edited by Sidetracked - 4/1/13 at 7:30pm
post #7234 of 16357
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

It's a mistake to found your happiness or unhappiness on other people's reports.

Still: returning it means you won't have to worry about it. You just have to switch to the perfect BR player that no one complains about.

-Bill

I agree with bill on the last statement.
good luck with that.
all blu ray players have some problems. some companies actually talk with the customers better then others.

Jacob
post #7235 of 16357
Quote:
Originally Posted by gweempose View Post

I'm still within the 30 day return window for my 103. I have to admit, I'm a bit surprised by all the complaints. If I had realized there were so many issues with the machine, I probably wouldn't have bought it. I'm almost thinking I should return it and get something else while I still can.
Complaints don't actually map to many issues. The number of complaining posts don't even tell you how many individuals have voiced complaints. To know how to interpret complaints and how they would effect the way you would use any device takes some study time.

Maybe this is a useful example. The 9x and 10x OPPO models provide two HDMI outputs. Originally they were provided for customers who owned an AVR that wouldn't pass a 3D video signal to their TV. They are able to send the 3D video directly to the TV, and the digital audio to their AVR.

There are some members who object to the video performance obtained when using the HDMI1 output. They see it as an issue, and OPPO may see it as a feature of the additional chip used to process video for HDMI1 output. Maybe we're talking about perfection seekers here, but I'm really not qualified to say.

What's interesting to me is that the HDMI2 output is free of the extra video processing chip. A small number of folks see using that output as a work around for a defect. Others see it as just a feature that gives them another choice..

Most of this debate ranges around video processing for DVD sourced SD movies. Many people think that the first OPPO Blu-ray player and their best DVD player did a better job than the last two OPPO Blu-ray model years. A good portion of those people think it's a matter of choice rather than error. They just like the old chip (which hasn't been available since the BDP-83) better than the new chip.

I have no way to tell what your tastes are, and I'm someone who has been satisfied with one OPPO DVD player, and two Blu-ray players. So I know which group I fit into. wink.gif

You, on the other hand, have to figure out which group you're in. It seems to me that the best way to do that is to concentrate on testing your OPPO for the tasks you bought it for. For me it's either go or no go on that basis. Customer standards and requirements vary so widely that the best standard is yours as long as a device isn't defective.

I hope this is helpful. smile.gif

If you didn't read Sidetracked's comments go back and do it. biggrin.gif

Without further information, I would tend to ignore the short screeching post that was near by. wink.gif
Edited by htwaits - 4/1/13 at 8:07pm
post #7236 of 16357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Recstar24 View Post

Forget this whole hdmi1 vs hdmi2 aka NR issue.

I JUST WANT TO USE HDMI INPUT WITHOUT CHOPPY CLAYMATION MOTION!!!! ARG YOU BETA FIRMWARE!!!!!!

+1

I hope Oppo doesn't take another 3 months to release a fix. They added deinterlacing settings for whatever reason as I hadn't seen any complaints previously. Now please revert back to how it was and give us our inputs back. By the way tonight I went to play a DVD Audio disc and I had to unplug the unit to get it to play. I bought this player based on Oppo's reputation and at this point I could not recommend it to anyone. Kudos to owners who have no issues but I just want a functional player. This is my 2nd 103 as I had to return the 1st because its HDMI 2 didn't function at all.
post #7237 of 16357
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

Actually full resolution 3D Blu-ray disc MVC sources are encoded with two 1920x1080 video streams not with one 3840x1080 video stream!

Sufficed to say, the Oppo's A/V decoding chip-set does not support non standard resolutions, such as 3840x1080 pixels. Indeed, currently no hardware media can play such resolutions!


Cheers

Thanks for the clarification.
post #7238 of 16357
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckronengold View Post

Yes it will, but it will be limited in what WHS2011 can do on its own. If you are trying to use the WHS2011 transcoding/serving capabilities, you may be a little disappointed.
I'm using WHS2011 with DrivePool to create a large, single virtual drive for the network to share.

I'm running Plex Media Server (plexapp.com) and very happy with it so far. Ideal for serving movies to mobile devices in and out of the house.
Works great with MKV files. Not so much with DVD folder structures like TS_Video folders.
Getting Plex to run as a service (without logging in to WHS) is a bit of a pain, but working.
I've heard good things about XBMC as a server, but have not tried it yet. Been trying to stick with things that natively support WHS2011 or have an official add-in.

I'm using Asset UPnP for serving my audio off WHS2011 as well, again, because it has a WHS2011 add-in.

If you want to pay ($29, I think) many folks in the WHS2011 forums seem to like Serviio. I did, too. But decided to try Plex since it was cheaper.

Serviio and the Oppo got along like peas and carrots.
So can you stream dsf files using plex?
post #7239 of 16357
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwiss View Post

+1

I hope Oppo doesn't take another 3 months to release a fix. They added deinterlacing settings for whatever reason as I hadn't seen any complaints previously. Now please revert back to how it was and give us our inputs back. By the way tonight I went to play a DVD Audio disc and I had to unplug the unit to get it to play. I bought this player based on Oppo's reputation and at this point I could not recommend it to anyone. Kudos to owners who have no issues but I just want a functional player. This is my 2nd 103 as I had to return the 1st because its HDMI 2 didn't function at all.

PREACH BROTHER PREACH
post #7240 of 16357
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Complaints don't actually map to many issues. The number of complaining posts don't even tell you how many individuals have voiced complaints. To know how to interpret complaints and how they would effect the way you would use any device takes some study time.

Maybe this is a useful example. The 9x and 10x OPPO models provide two HDMI outputs. Originally they were provided for customers who owned an AVR that wouldn't pass a 3D video signal to their TV. They are able to send the 3D video directly to the TV, and the digital audio to their AVR.

There are some members who object to the video performance obtained when using the HDMI1 output. They see it as an issue, and OPPO may see it as a feature of the additional chip used to process video for HDMI1 output. Maybe we're talking about perfection seekers here, but I'm really not qualified to say.

What's interesting to me is that the HDMI2 output is free of the extra video processing chip. A small number of folks see using that output as a work around for a defect. Others see it as just a feature that gives them another choice..

Most of this debate ranges around video processing for DVD sourced SD movies. Many people think that the first OPPO Blu-ray player and their best DVD player did a better job than the last two OPPO Blu-ray model years. A good portion of those people think it's a matter of choice rather than error. They just like the old chip (which hasn't been available since the BDP-83) better than the new chip.

I have no way to tell what your tastes are, and I'm someone who has been satisfied with one OPPO DVD player, and two Blu-ray players. So I know which group I fit into. wink.gif

You, on the other hand, have to figure out which group you're in. It seems to me that the best way to do that is to concentrate on testing your OPPO for the tasks you bought it for. For me it's either go or no go on that basis. Customer standards and requirements vary so widely that the best standard is yours as long as a device isn't defective.

I hope this is helpful. smile.gif

If you didn't read Sidetracked's comments go back and do it. biggrin.gif

Without further information, I would tend to ignore the short screeching post that was near by. wink.gif

+1

My gosh! why is everyone whining so much ?

Oppo is a company who I found out last year after purchasing my 95 is pure "Class Act" and the recent attitudes of some lately is flat out unnecessary especially you previous Oppo owners rolleyes.gif
if its one thing you should know by now is not only will they address the issues with in their control but at the same time give you something you may like but never asked for.

Point is they listen they solve and deliver in a timely fashion.

So be patient and let these guys do what they do!

And big shout out to Oppo hang in their guys! this is the price for being the "King of the Hill'
Edited by audiofan1 - 4/1/13 at 11:28pm
post #7241 of 16357
Quote:
Originally Posted by gweempose View Post

I have to admit, I'm a bit surprised by all the complaints. If I had realized there were so many issues with the machine, I probably wouldn't have bought it. I'm almost thinking I should return it and get something else while I still can.

Honestly, I would take the complaints with a grain of salt. Why? Well, the people that are into electronics to the point where they have an account and are posting here means that they almost certainly are very particular about their equipment (which can be good and bad.) Naturally, they are going to be very picky and the hardest people to please. They are also the segment of the owners most likely to use every last feature on the player, which may or may not be how you use it. While there are issues with the 103 (and virtually every other player on the market) I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of 103 owners are quite happy with their player, even if they are waiting on a firmware update for a particular fix. Don't base your experience with the player on other people's complaints, but rather on how satisfied you are with it so far in your home.
post #7242 of 16357

So, if i'm to calibrate my Pioneer Elite PRO-151FD Plasma, which HDMI output should be used on the Oppo? HDMI_1 or HDMI_2 since both supposedly have their share of problems? HDMI_1 with NR issues(?) and HDMI_2 with color accuracy(?) issue?

post #7243 of 16357
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

+1

My gosh! why is everyone whining so much ?

Oppo is a company who I found out last year after purchasing my 95 is pure "Class Act" and the recent attitudes of some lately is flat out unnecessary especially you previous Oppo owners rolleyes.gif
if its one thing you should know by now is not only will they address the issues with in their control but at the same time give you something you may like but never asked for.

Point is they listen they solve and deliver in a timely fashion.

So be patient and let these guys do what they do!

And big shout out to Oppo hang in their guys! this is the price for being the "King of the Hill'


When it comes to the 'art' of A/V equipment there are no right or wrong answers. Those of us who have
concerns, dissapointments, frustrations are quite right within our subjective experience. And complaining has a value in gaining
knowledge of where our own problems are also occuring with others, and seeing if there are fixes we might not know about, or
gathering enough voices to alert Oppo to a possible fix. If some of us don't complain, how will Oppo even consider issues now
or in future models? Or have other owners help us fix those issues? Even if it is only a minority that are troubled,

On the other hand, those who are happy with the machines as they are, are just as right from their POV.

There is room for both in a true, open 'owners thread'.

People have very different needs, wants, tastes, and expectations in owning equipment. What fits one person's set of personal, subjective
criteria, may miss anothers. People watch different materials in different ways, on different displays, through different eyes.
And different units in different set ups may have different results.

Thus, to put down those who are frustrated by what they are currently getting from their Oppo 103 is unfair.
Some of us are experiencing real issues, bugs, and backwards steps. For example, I have yet to hear ANYONE say the
current machines are as good as the ABT Oppos for SD-DVDs. For me, that still makes up a large part of my viewing.
So I hope that Oppo will address that in the future. For others SD-DVD may make up little of their use. We will by nature
have different experiences of the player and both are equally true..

I use my Oppo as a professional tool. I view dailies and cuts of my work on it. The further it is from giving a clean
unprocessed image on SD-DVD as well as blu-ray, the more it introduces its own artificats, the less useful it is for me.

I also watch as a film geek who is really wants the image being as close as possible to original intent.
If you look at a lot of review sites for blu-rays and DVDs you will see that many take the same approach.

I would argue; what is the point of careful 'scientific' calibration of a display except trying to get as 'true'
a picture as posssible. Otherwise we'd just fiddle with the controls until it 'looked good'. By extension I apply the same
criteria to a player or to the media it plays. (So...I'm that looney who just ordered "The Last Emperor" from Japan so I could
have a good blu-ray in the original aspect ratio),

But there is another, perfectly valid POV that says 'screw that, there will always be a million variations" (try watching
a movie you're made in ANY two different movie theaters. EVERYING is different; sound, PQ, brightness, etc)

So by that paradigm what's important is what pleases the user, not an artist's intent that can never fully be realised
anyway. (The whole darbee debate is another great example around the same issue).

Neither is right, both are valid, ineresting and worthy of ongoing discussion and sharing of experiences, ideas and POVs.

Personally I'm not interested in a 'Thread for owners who love their players and don't want to express frustration,
nor have to hear others do so' and a seperate 'Thread for owners who are frustrated, disgruntled or disappointed and
don't care that many others aren't'. smile.gif
post #7244 of 16357
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckronengold View Post

Sorry for the slightly off topic question, but what FLAC settings do you use to backup your DVD-A? I never thought to do that. Any tips on what to use?
I use an application called DVD Audio Extractor and set Flac compression to 'Zero'...
post #7245 of 16357
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

So, if i'm to calibrate my Pioneer Elite PRO-151FD Plasma, which HDMI output should be used on the Oppo? HDMI_1 or HDMI_2 since both supposedly have their share of problems? HDMI_1 with NR issues(?) and HDMI_2 with color accuracy(?) issue?

IF the latest trend of reporting that HDMI 2 only has color issues in the 4:2:2 colorspace are true, my personal suggestion would be HDMI 2
on 4:4:4 (or possibly RGB).

That should be giving you as close to a "neutral" image as you can get off the machine. (BTW- the QEDO does not only have NR
always on, but a number of interlocking processing variables. Those theoretically could (very slightly slightly) effect color and gamma
as well.

Of course, you could make the argument that if you know you're going to use HDMI 1, you should calibrate to that, since
that's the signal you'll be using.

Never simple, is it?biggrin.gif
post #7246 of 16357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidetracked View Post

When it comes to the 'art' of A/V equipment there are no right or wrong answers. Those of us who have
concerns, dissapointments, frustrations are quite right within our subjective experience. And complaining has a value in gaining
knowledge of where our own problems are also occuring with others, and seeing if there are fixes we might not know about, or
gathering enough voices to alert Oppo to a possible fix. If some of us don't complain, how will Oppo even consider issues now
or in future models? Or have other owners help us fix those issues? Even if it is only a minority that are troubled,

On the other hand, those who are happy with the machines as they are, are just as right from their POV.

There is room for both in a true, open 'owners thread'.

People have very different needs, wants, tastes, and expectations in owning equipment. What fits one person's set of personal, subjective
criteria, may miss anothers. People watch different materials in different ways, on different displays, through different eyes.
And different units in different set ups may have different results.

Thus, to put down those who are frustrated by what they are currently getting from their Oppo 103 is unfair.
Some of us are experiencing real issues, bugs, and backwards steps. For example, I have yet to hear ANYONE say the
current machines are as good as the ABT Oppos for SD-DVDs. For me, that still makes up a large part of my viewing.
So I hope that Oppo will address that in the future. For others SD-DVD may make up little of their use. We will by nature
have different experiences of the player and both are equally true..

I use my Oppo as a professional tool. I view dailies and cuts of my work on it. The further it is from giving a clean
unprocessed image on SD-DVD as well as blu-ray, the more it introduces its own artificats, the less useful it is for me.

I also watch as a film geek who is really wants the image being as close as possible to original intent.
If you look at a lot of review sites for blu-rays and DVDs you will see that many take the same approach.

I would argue; what is the point of careful 'scientific' calibration of a display except trying to get as 'true'
a picture as posssible. Otherwise we'd just fiddle with the controls until it 'looked good'. By extension I apply the same
criteria to a player or to the media it plays. (So...I'm that looney who just ordered "The Last Emperor" from Japan so I could
have a good blu-ray in the original aspect ratio),

But there is another, perfectly valid POV that says 'screw that, there will always be a million variations" (try watching
a movie you're made in ANY two different movie theaters. EVERYING is different; sound, PQ, brightness, etc)

So by that paradigm what's important is what pleases the user, not an artist's intent that can never fully be realised
anyway. (The whole darbee debate is another great example around the same issue).

Neither is right, both are valid, ineresting and worthy of ongoing discussion and sharing of experiences, ideas and POVs.

Personally I'm not interested in a 'Thread for owners who love their players and don't want to express frustration,
nor have to hear others do so' and a seperate 'Thread for owners who are frustrated, disgruntled or disappointed and
don't care that many others aren't'. smile.gif

My point is you don't need to yell when you already have someone's attention the current players exist because they listen ! to whom? us. All one merely has to do is report an issue in a calm subjective manner even if frustrated. Don't get me wrong their are some who don't listen and yelling is necessary and possible class action law suits eek.gif but come on man this is "Oppo" and they still look out for us! And with all they have given we owe them ( yes owe them) a little time to pan this out wink.gif

And don't feel alone I own the Japanese version of "Star Wars" ep 1. ( dolby digital) on laserdisc biggrin.gif
post #7247 of 16357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

DSperber,
Since you are using Analog audio output. Another thing to try would be to set HDMI Audio OFF. If that cures the problem, that would be more evidence pointing to the HDMI handshake as the problem.
I will try this, but it's not a permanent settings option.

I only use analog L/R audio output (downmixed to stereo) when I want to listen through the speakers connected to my AVR. And I run the L/R audio from Oppo analog out through my DBX 14/10 EQ for "tone control". Output from the EQ then goes to analog audio input of the AVR, and on to the speakers. This is the only way I can get the EQ and tone control implemented.

But when listening through my external headphone system (fed by LPCM output from Oppo's HDMI-2) I really do want HDMI audio out HDMI-2.

So although I could certainly turn off HMDI audio temporarily, it isn't a "solution" since it doesn't really work when I really do want HDMI audio out HDMI-2.

See my comments at the bottom for new information.

Quote:
Try the alternate HDMI *INPUT* on the OPPO.
I actually have the front HDMI input fed from a second Linksys DMA2100 (from a second HTPC in my house) which I don't use much. So my problems have only been noticed using the rear input, used by the DMA2100 from my primary HTPC.

But obviously I can certainly try the front HDMI input to see if that's relevant. But honestly, I don't think it's relevant.

I actually think using the 103 for several hours is more relevant... as if "heating up" might be a factor. When the unit is "cold", and for several hours after that, performance is quite normal... until all of a sudden the "staccato claymation" video problem comes in with a bang and no amount of fooling around (including the extreme solution of temporarily powering off all equipment and then powering it all back on) can make it go away. Only letting the unit "cool off" overnight will return normal behavior, but tomorrow.

Quote:
Try HDMI Audio LPCM vs Bitstream for the output setting of the OPPO.
Could certainly try that while listening via analog output and speakers. But it's not what I want since the Smyth Realiser (connected on HDMI-2) requires LPCM when I listen through headphones.

Quote:
Try 1080i output from the OPPO instead of 1080p.
I might as well just connect the DMA2100 directly to the AVR, and not use the Oppo at all, if I wanted 1080i fed to my 65VT50.

As I reported a few days back, that actually WAS the emergency "solution" I finally decided to take, as I felt the problems caused by the new firmware were simply unacceptable and there appeared to be no workaround at all.

Well after a few days of looking at 1080i going to my VT50, I wasn't very happy. I'd had Jeff Meier do my ISF calibration and he went through the 103 and out HDMI-1 (since that's how I was operating) to perform the calibration. I loved the way the picture (color, cleanliness, pop, etc.) looked. When taking the 103 out of the loop, and going direct from DMA2100 through AVR to VT50 (at 1080i), the picture looks noticeably inferior. This, too, was unacceptable as I'd grown to really love the way the picture looks "processed" by the 103 from HDMI-1 and Jeff's matching calibration.

So tonight I put things back the way they were before... even though I fully expected the problems from the firmware to reappear. But I was determined to figure out how to "live with it" in some way.

Well, I watched about 3 hours worth of TV (using speakers for sound), and everything seemed perfect! In fact I didn't even see the lip-sync problem appear. I attributed this to near-zero use of the remote for the DMA2100. I never tried to skip-forward 30-seconds or back 15-seconds. The only use of the remote was to push DELETE when a program was done, and to pick the next program for watching. I figured maybe if I avoided "aggravating" the 103 with the sudden disappearance and reappearance of audio it might be less unhappy.

And as I said, I had probably 3 straight hours of NO PROBLEM. Obviously there was no issue of HDMI handshake, or audio buffers flushing and re-populating, or anything. Just straight watching TV for hours, with maybe four pushes of some buttons on the remote in all that time. And it seemed to be working great (and of course the reappearance of that LOVELY WONDERFUL result of QDEO working on my TWC/LA cable picture and delivering 1080p to my VT50 made me very happy indeed).

And then... all of a sudden, in the middle of just another 1/2 hour TV show, the video problem appeared. Like stroboscopic stop-motion, with literally seconds between each "strobe frame". Audio was perfectly normal, but the picture had turned into this stop-motion.

And I had done NOTHING!! It just happened. Obviously this was not an HDMI handshake occurring.

I first powered off the 103 for about 30 seconds, and then turned it back on. The picture returned to "normal" and held that way for maybe a minute, before "stop-motion" returned.

I then powered ALL equipment off, including AVR, TV, and DMA2100. Waited a minute, and then powered things back on. Once again the picture returned to "normal" for a while, and then once again "stop-motion" returned.

I finally gave up, powered everything off for the night, and went into the kitchen for some food. It'll be fine tomorrow, but obviously it's not going to recover tonight... at least not until it "cools down".

That's my new theory, that there is something going on here which perhaps is heat sensitive (not that there is any problem with ventilation for the 103... and none of this happened before the new firmware upgrade). But it sure does seem to be behaving as if when "overheated" from hours of use, whatever gremlin is responsible for this now appears... and doesn't go away until the unit truly "cools down".

Quote:
All this is to collect data.
Watching normally for 3 hours and then all of a sudden in the middle of a program having the video start "chopping" is certainly one more data point. I did NOTHING. I did not push a button on the DVR remote. I was just watching, normally, for several hours, and all of a sudden the gremlin appeared.

Quote:
Consider your complete set if HDMI cables. Are there TWO HDMI paths between you cable TV box and the AVR, or between that box and the TV? If so, disconnect the path you don't think is actually in use and see if that cures the problem.
Well, I believe it's clearly something Oppo did, not my cables or interconnects.

I am not alone in experiencing this symptom (others report the identical stop-motion video artifact), so we know it's really there.

I'm going to leave my setup using the 103 and external HDMI input, because I just so much prefer the 1080p image on my VT50 coming through the QDEO rather than feeding 1080i to the set. Either way I'm not happy, so I might as well have a fabulous picture (for a few hours).

The next time the symptom returns I will try and change settings or variables, to see if I can make it disappear instantly as a result. I will try many different things of both an audio and video nature along with box settings, to see if that has any effect.

But... THIS NEVER HAPPENED UNTIL THE BETA FIRMWARE, and everything else is the same as it was before, both physically, interconnects, cables, and settings. Only the firmware has changed.
post #7248 of 16357
^ +1
post #7249 of 16357
forgive me but I've only been following this thread off and on. Is there a defect tracking list for the 103?
post #7250 of 16357
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

forgive me but I've only been following this thread off and on. Is there a defect tracking list for the 103?

I haven't seen one. Problems that appear in beta releases are fixed before production, so it hardly seems worth the effort for those.

Problems with production firmware are also a somewhat fuzzy set: it's a matter of "some have reported but others don't see it" and "OPPO is researching".

-Bill
post #7251 of 16357
Anybody else have a heating issue after 3+ hours of use with beta firmware?
post #7252 of 16357
^ The problem with the HDMI Inputs in the 0323B Public Beta firmware that's got everyone in a tizzy is not a heating issue.

Stay tuned. More info soon.
--Bob
post #7253 of 16357
^I was originally following the 105 thread to track the lip sync issue which I'm not even sure if that got resolved yet. In the past few days it appears there is a lot of feedback on the Qdeo video processing with NR issues, is that correct?

I have the color space set to auto and HDMI to 36 bits. as oppo recommends using HDMI 1 I will experiment later tonight with HDMI 2 to bypass some of these noise reduction complaints.
post #7254 of 16357
^ What you are talking about is entirely separate from the issue people have been discussing related to the HDMI *INPUTS*.



As regards the *OUTPUTS*, my personal take is that the concerns people have raised about noise reduction on the HDMI 1 output are overstated. Personally, I still prefer HDMI 1 for example.

If you are concerned, you should try both outputs and decide for yourself.
--Bob
Edited by Bob Pariseau - 4/2/13 at 6:13am
post #7255 of 16357
^ I am on HDMI 2.
post #7256 of 16357
0323B Public Beta Firmware -- Frame Drop Stutter When Cable TV is fed into the HDMI Inputs: --> Cause Identified and Workarounds Revealed!

Another Beta Tester appears to have latched onto the handle on this one, and I've been able to confirm the findings.

The problem happens when the Cable TV box is sending 1080i/60 video, and the *AUDIO* format changes from DD 5.1 to DD 2.0 and back to DD 5.1.

Everything is fine until the audio switches BACK to DD 5.1. At that point the video exhibits "Frame Drop Stutter" -- what some have called the "claymation" effect -- and the A/V sync also degrades.

Once in this state, the audio and video problems do not cure themselves. But see below.



If you think about it, this is why some people are not seeing the problem for an extended period whereas for others the problem happens quickly. What matters is whether the audio input format is changing. Evidently something about the audio input format change is causing the input processing chain to jump off -- and stay off -- the sprockets.

Consider, if you are watching a movie channel there likely won't be ANY audio changes for the duration of the movie, and quite possibly not afterwards as well (most premium movie channels stick on DD 5.1). If you are watching a commercial channel, the audio format changes can happen quite a bit more frequently. Take, for example a channel like HGTV HD. This is a 1080i/60 channel with DD 5.1 program content. It also has LOTS of commercials. But the commercials included by HGTV themselves are ALSO DD 5.1. Now in my Comcast service area, Comcast sometimes inserts their own commercials into a commercial break, and those are DD 2.0. Whether this happens on any given commercial break depends on things like the time of day. So you may go through a commercial break where the audio remains at DD 5.1, and when you go back to the program everything is still fine. But if a DD 2.0 commercial is inserted, then things go bad when you return to DD 5.1 on that channel.

And if your box is sending 1080i/60 all the time (not using "native" output resolution mode) the problem is also more likely to happen.

If you want to test this yourself, you can use the on-screen Info display of the OPPO to view the input audio/video format and see whether and when it is changing.

Just keep in mind that once the problem has been triggered, it will CONTINUE happening until you "cure" it. Which brings us to....



There are two workarounds you can use while waiting for OPPO to provide a fix for this:

1) If you want to keep using Bitstream audio from your Cable TV box (so you can get 5.1 program content), then, when the problem triggers, simply switch to a 480i or 720p channel and back. For example, I've been using ESPN HD (a 720p channel) in my testing. The problem will go away on the 1080i/60 channel until a DD 2.0 to DD 5.1 audio transition next happens. NOTE: I'm using "native" video output resolution mode from my Comcast box, so switching to a 720p channel means the Comcast ALSO switches to sending 720p/60 to the OPPO.

2) If you prefer to not have to deal with (1), then change the settings in your Cable TV box to output HDMI LPCM audio instead of Bitstream (may be labeled "Dolby Digital"). The LPCM setting is intended for use with TVs that don't know what to do with multi-channel audio input. It causes the Cable TV box to output LPCM 2.0 48KHz regardless of the program audio content. You will only get stereo audio when you do this, but the Frame Drop Stutter problem won't trigger.

Again, these are temporary workarounds until OPPO can deliver a fix.



How you do (2) above will vary according to which set top box you have. For my Comcast/Motorola DCX3400 HD/DVR you do this with the following magic incantation:

1) Using the remote for the DCX3400, turn the DCX3400 OFF.
2) While the DCX3400 is still "OFF", press Menu on the remote. This will bring up the secret settings page for it where you can do things like selecting "native" video output resolution mode.
3) Scroll down to Additional HDMI Settings and select that. This will take you to a new page of settings.
4) On that new page, scroll to Audio Output. Its default value is Auto. Using Left/Right Arrow, change that to L-PCM.
5) Scroll to Return to Main Menu and select that. This will take you back to the original, secret settings page.
6) Press Menu on the remote. This will save your change and return the DCX3400 to its "OFF" state.
7) Use the remote to turn the DCX3400 back ON.

At this point the box will output HDMI LPCM 2.0 48KHz regardless of whether the audio on the channel you are watching at the moment is DD 5.1 or DD 2.0. Once OPPO delivers the fix, you can change that Audio Output setting back to Auto.



Now that we've got a handle on this, it should be possible for OPPO to generate a fix. For example, the sequence of format changes can be captured on the DVR and replayed to yield a reproducible test case. (This is already known to work.)

The mystery however, is that this does *NOT* seem to be happening from "better" HDMI Sources. For example, I can not trigger this failure by doing the same sequence of format changes using the OPPO BDP-93 player as the Source device instead of the Comcast box.

Evidently there is something screwy about how the Cable TV box is implementing the change of audio format which the OPPO is not handling well. This is not surprising. These set top boxes are notorious for flaky HDMI implementations, and things they connect to have to be programmed to deal with that flakiness.

Be that as it may, with a repeatable case, a fix should be forthcoming.

More news as I learn/confirm it.
--Bob
Edited by Bob Pariseau - 4/3/13 at 4:07am
post #7257 of 16357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidetracked View Post


If you want to try and see it in 'real world' action, you're best off starting with an SD-DVD, since that automatically kicks up the NR on the
QEDO to a higher gear. Types of things where you can notice it are; hair or beards in harshly lit medium or closer shots - how much detail
do you see? Or, do the whites of eyes or other details start to disappear in shadowy, dark lighting, in looser shots (those were two
of the first things I noticed). Very contrasty scenes will bring it out more, there's a fall of of detail in shadow areas. Black and white
is good, film noir, even the grain of the film itself...

And even then, it's not screamingly obvious. I noticed it on films I knew really well, and I was specifically looking to
judge how I felt the new player performed. Then I confirmed by plugging in direct from the player to the same input in my Kuro
(taking anything else out of the circuit). I tried the 103 on HDMI 1, then 2, and then my old Oppo 983. Repeated several times
with several scenes. Watching the same scenes from each output produced some subtle but clear characteristics to each image.

Now, what's important is that none of the images were 'bad'. They all were very nice and watchable. But in watching
films I helped master, there were certain details (minor ones) that started to disappear on HDMI 1. Also there was
an artificial jump in contrast. That was eye catching, it even looked 'good' the way an over bright set can do at first
when it catches your eye, it had nice 'pop' but it wasn't the way it was mastered.


Anyway, hope that's helpful.

Amazingly detailed and helpful and exactly the type of info I was looking for. Thanks much!
post #7258 of 16357
Quick question--was watching 2D movie over the weekend on my OPPO and a message lower right of screen came on saying something like "3D signal detected."....don't remember the rest. What is that all about??? Never saw that before.
post #7259 of 16357
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

So can you stream dsf files using plex?

I don't have any to try, but this would be a better question in the Plex forums. They are very active and helpful there (just like here), but I'd think that issue is up to whether or not Plex can read and transcode a dsf file.
WHS2011 is pretty limited in its transcoding ability without some added help from Plex, AssetUPnP, XMBCserver, a codec pack or something.
post #7260 of 16357
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonbeam13 View Post

Quick question--was watching 2D movie over the weekend on my OPPO and a message lower right of screen came on saying something like "3D signal detected."....don't remember the rest. What is that all about??? Never saw that before.

I don't think that came from the player.

-Bill
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Blu-ray Players
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Players ›  Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread