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Painting Onto A 106" Tab Tensioned Screen with Silver Fire v2.5 4.0 - Page 2

post #31 of 66
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

You bet! I always get a bunch of plaudits at these things. To be exact, this Show involves 5 Custom Homes especially built together in a Cul-De-Sac gated Community so that the Public can tour them ($12.00 adm.) and see all the latest / greatest building techniques and amenities. The Homes range from $750,000.00 to just under 1 Mil. Expected attendance? Over 40,000. The only drawback? Gotta be there 10 hrs a day 6 days a week for 3 weeks! On my Feet the whole time! eek.gif You simply cannot imagine how tired I get watching every Movie I bring (at least a Dozen or more) as well as a couple Demo DVDs...over and over and over and over and over.......... redface.gif Crazily...one comment I get daily on a repeated basis? "Boy...I wish I had you Job! Getting to watch Movies all day long!" rolleyes.gif
(...and if anything can prove a PJ's performance under constant daily use...this show certainly can! )
The last time I posted Attendees' comments was in a thread (...closed...) called "Roasting the Bird over a Fusion Fire". tongue.gif That alluded to my only real competition at the time, the Stewart Fire Hawk and a Sim2 PJ. I had a Studio Experience DLP and a 110" Light Fusion (2004 MM-SE edition) I burned that Bird bad....but because of the posting of about 3 pages of commentary, certain elements called "Fowl" for my doing so and got the thread closed for seemingly promoting the "Sales" of what was obviously a DIY application. My intent was solely to disprove all the adverse and negative posts by those who wished to dismiss the concept...but it did come off a bit like a Infomercial...so.......rolleyes.gif
So I don't go there anymore, opting to let AVS'ers make their own judgements based on my posted efforts at project construction and the shown end results (...shown not as Eye Candy but under somewhat intolerable conditions...) Such is also the reason I do not engage in showing any extensive Tests or Graphs to justify people considering the apps I /others advocate. For others, doing so is more a case for their promoting the supposed validity of their apps over the ones shown on this Forum If I did so...it would be branded sheer promotion only, so I don't go there either.
In truth...that's what they must do because they sure as 'ell can't post up any shots that show the sort of results members can obtain with the Ambient Light apps we offer. wink.gif
The big difference between what is inferred by some and the real truth is that I do what I do on AVS because I enjoy it immensely...I like helping the Forum draw / keep interested Traffic, and I especially enjoy reading the "Thank yous". Kinda a bit self-serving that last...but with only good intentions in mind. smile.gif
Anywho...it does seem there is a small demand for some eye candy...and since others do so on other threads, I'll relent today and take some dark room shots from every conceivable angle to show just how "Black" blacks can be with a PJ that only sports 15K:1 Contrast when it splashes it's image on a dark Gray surface that still has positive gain characteristics.
Oh yeah...I'm bettin' the colors will pop too....most likely. biggrin.gif
BTW...this year my competition is a $20K+ Sim2 PJ and a 140" Stewart Screen. I'm still getting "I prefer yours..." comments, if for no other reason than the $24,000.00 price difference. tongue.gif

Thank you MM. I ordered a pulldown screen last night so I'll be needing your recommendation for paint and whatever else you care to recommend. In fact I'll need recommendations aplenty. I bought the Graco and the 1.5mm needle is on the way along with the respirator. This thread will help me immensely and I'll be praying to the DIY gods that I don't botch the paint job.
post #32 of 66
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

I installed a Darbee Processor yesterday evening. It worked as promised set at 50-60% effect. Both Contrast and Sharpness were definitely enhanced.
Here are shots of the image coming from the Viewsonic 1280 x 800 PJ.
Looking good. wink.gif
frown.gif )

Can you post any on/off pictures with the Darby Darblet for comparison?
post #33 of 66
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by Chezteladog View Post

Can you post any on/off pictures with the Darby Darblet for comparison?

My work is never done........ wink.giftongue.gifbiggrin.gifcool.gif

Yes...that's is next on my list. Tomorrow (today) being Saturday...a very busy day...I still hope to get some "Split Screen" examples...with a few even being actual Movies.

Before that however...another round of Collages, including some requested "Prometheus" shots showing Blacks as being Black.






post #34 of 66
very interesting gob and great screen you have there smile.gif

Edited by yyy484 - 10/15/12 at 1:51am
post #35 of 66
Thread Starter 
Vesta Darbee Shots. Darbee set to 60% processing and images zoomed for detail.

Left is Unprocessed .................................................................................................Right is "Darbee-ized at 60%




Both Contrast a Detail is obviously improved, but I will almost assuredly set the processing back to 40% as most others have recommended.
post #36 of 66
Hi MM, one last small request tongue.gifbiggrin.gif as soon as the paint is fully cured, is that possible to demonstrate/show that the painted retractable screen being roll up & down without any wrinkles issues smile.gif
Edited by WereWolf84 - 10/14/12 at 9:08pm
post #37 of 66
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post

Hi MM, one last small request tongue.gifbiggrin.gif as soon as the paint is fully cured, is that possible to demonstrate/show that the painted retractable screen being roll up & down without any wrinkles issues smile.gif

I rolled it up before I left this evening....that would be a full12 days since it was painted. But I've demo'd the "retract-ability" option at the show at least a dozen times already anyway and have taken many photos afterward.

But tonight is the first time the Screen will have been rolled up and remain rolled up for 14+ hours...so the next photos should show (...or fail to show hopefully...) what you don't want to actually see.
post #38 of 66
Thread Starter 
OK...so here are some ultra bright ambient Sunlight shots that effectivelt show ho bad the light issue is even with Curtains (...not Balck-out type,,,)


............so sue me. cool.gif
post #39 of 66
WOW, just incredible how well that screen/projector combo performs. The people picture gives a better idea how tough the light conditions were.

A side note on acrylic paints.

They are very flexible and durable. They have been used inside lexan bodies in RC for many years, solely for their ability to stick, stay flexible and ease of application. As many of you know, those lexan bodies gets a hell of beating. My sons and mine sure does anyway and the paint is still on there, for now biggrin.gif

I have no hesitation on applying the SF mix to my screen. Looking forward to wow the neighbors. One of them are in the AV profession but has never bothered with a projector and screen setup in his home. He's all into LCD and plasma TVs and states that they are superior to any projector setup.

Guess I'll have to invite him over for coffee one of these days. eek.gif
post #40 of 66
Hi MM, perhaps I missed anything, have you mentioned about how many coats/dusters you were sprayed on this retractable screen? How did you sand this retractable screen in order for a smooth surface?
post #41 of 66
Post #4 wink.gif
post #42 of 66
Originally Posted by rengep View Post

Post #4 wink.gif
Thanks wink.gif
post #43 of 66
Thread Starter 
Ok.....another bright sunny day with intermittent clouds. Below is a Collage of "Tangled" shots I've assembled because of the intense colorization that movie presents. It was a big hit in 3D format, and the effort taken to produce it also transferred into the 2D release. As such, while I was snapping off the shots below, I was continually assailed with questions like "Is that 3D ?" and several comments like "That 3D is much clearer than the 3D next door!" The latter being quite a hoot since the PJ next door is a $20k+ Sims2 eek.gif

All that is nothing new however, because when a screen can increase perceived contrast, and retain or increase brightness across the color spectrum, the end result is better deffinition of shadows and illustrated or photographed curvature. That gives the impression of any image having a greater depth than 2D.

As seen below, the excessive amount of Ambient Light has not grossly affected the image quality, even in the "Night Shots". And also make note these shots were "NOT" taken in paused mode.

One thing is certain...as the Screen continues to cure, them image is continually getting brighter and sharper.


Today might see some "Movies" dependent upon the Crowd....because when the Moms w/children are omnipresent, it's better to show something that makes the kiddies squeal and ker-plop down onto the Couch than to have those Moms feel obligated to hustle the Kids out of the room due to even semi-questionable content. redface.gif 1st impressions mean a lot, and as we all know, if the Ladies are not happy.....no one is happy. wink.gif

Who's Da Master, Leroy ?
post #44 of 66

That wold be enough to described the screen...

Would bringing the screen up and down several times per day make an impact on the paint? And how long, if any, would you think it would have to be before significant degradation or flaws be noticeable?

Great pictures MMan!!! hope you have some time everyday to rest your feet.
post #45 of 66
Thread Starter 
The finish is quite flexible...and thin, although if you run a fingertip along the Screen / Mask juncture, you can certainly feel a ridge. But I'll put emphasis on "a fingertip touch".

Several times a day? I already show the retract-ability feature on average 3x a day.... ( conservative estimate ) and the Screen stays down overnight when not in use. To date that works out to be 3x 12 days = 36 times already. eek.gif
Bear in mind I just painted it only 14 days ago. And it is "a show" I fret enough about Murphy's Law. redface.gif

1. Should I have gotten a Spare Lamp...just to be safe?
2. Should I have a Spare PJ...just to be safe?
3. Should I have settled for a non-enclosed Screen Case Cavity...just to be safe?
4 .If I keep Lowering / Retracting several times a day, and I'm risking a mechanical breakdown, should I stop doing so...just to be safe?

And then there's taking requests.....................................mad.gif

Flaws indeed..........if the paint was / is ever susceptible to damage, it's during the first 12 hours after the last coat. After the "Acrylic" Paint w/Poly mix cures, and what with it being both flexible and less than 5 microns thick it's ability to flex around a smooth, non-ridged cylinder is both certain and verified by many previous end users. How many? Well...enough to matter. wink.gif

Now if something goes wrong within the Screen casing....I would suppose anything severe enough to damage a non coated screen would wreak similar havoc with a painted one. But as far as defects resulting from the pressure of the Screen rolling free and unhindered in on itself.....highly unlikely.

Why all this Gloom & Doom? Are ya tryin' ta Jinx me?


At this point, and after 36+ cycles....not to mention the several other non-Tab Tensioned Electric screens I've painted on, I feel confident in stating that a sprayed version done in the manner described will NOT crack, chip, or peal of it's own accord, from being rolled up (after curing a minimum of 3-4 days) or the interaction with normally operating Retractable Screen mechanisms.

What I cannot be sure of is the actual mechanical durability of this particular Mfg / Model Tab Tension screen. I got it 'cause it was cheap, white, and available. Judicious searching on the subject tells of Taps / Strings Jamming, even on the much more expensive types. And Motors....they work or don't, and if one goes south................

Am I having fun yet.........? Can you hear my teeth chatter? biggrin.gif
post #46 of 66
You are the one that brought our uncle Murphy up! tongue.gif ... We do know him well.

And by no means I'm invoking the powers of the Jinx god ... just a little curious on the true effects of everyday living. smile.gif

I like your set up, and mostly I like the idea of having a retractable screen with the qualities you painted screen has... being able to have a superb picture quality on a room with somewhat brighter environment. I would like to keep a TV for normal everyday, constant use and have a retractable screen to be used for special events or movies.

As I mentioned, I like your setup... retractable, superb picture quality screen with a short throw high lumen output projector. I can envision that in our living room.

I would like to add... "I" am enjoying The (your) Show"
post #47 of 66
Thread Starter 
Thank you Leo,

But somewhere....somehow....some nasty individual caught wind of my worrisome nature and leapt to make me pay. While I was demo 'ing my system, I had my Galaxy IIs charging right behind me (3' away')on a cabinet. I heard it say "2 new emails" but ignored it while speaking. I finished...turned...and it was gone.

Pretty much spoiled my day. Spent an hour reporting it stolen, trying to have them track it with GPS, and then making a claim......so at least I'm getting a replacement today via FedEx....but still.....rolleyes.gif

The bright side? At least it was not my beloved Canon SX260HS I use to take my Screen shots / Movies. No insurance on that!

It's hard to fathom why someone who spends $12.00 admission to view 5 - $780,000 - $1Mil homes would lift a cell phone.mad.gif
post #48 of 66
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

It's hard to fathom why someone who spends $12.00 admission to view 5 - $780,000 - $1Mil homes would lift a cell phone.mad.gif

The bizarre things people do to each other is often unfathomable. Sorry about your phone.
post #49 of 66
Thread Starter 
Well now...a short break from Screenies. I sent the Wife off to Seattle (SeaTac) to see my Son and celebrate my Grandson's 6th BDay and she demanded the Canon 260 go with her.

It had better come back too! mad.gif

If I get anxious though...there is always my "New" Galaxy IIs and it's 8mp Camera. Took a few shots yesterday and they were surprisingly good.
post #50 of 66
Yes my wife is also the boss. tongue.gif

Those smart phones takes crazy good pictures despite their lens size. Have an iphone my self and I'm amazed how good hd video it produces.

Now be on the lookout for those undercover thieves attending your show.
post #51 of 66
Mississippi man: How long did you wait between applications when applying the silver fire?
post #52 of 66
Thread Starter 
Well....I was using a 1.0 mm needle and the coats I applied were exceedingly light. Plus, I only had the hours between 12:30 am and 7:00 am to get it all done, plastic taken down...and the room resettled into place.

So I went on average approximately 30 minutes between coats. On the button.

But that's "Me"...and at the risk of sounding less than modest, "Me" ain't nobody else.....and anybody else might not be able to discern by look /touch what can be done and when waiting longer is mandatory.

Now if your room's temperature is above 75 and has low humidity...using the 1.5 mm tip should allow safe re coating after 30 minutes. Any screen is something you don't want to rush....and a Mfg Screen that rolls up demands the absolute least amount of paint to be applied that still effects a even coverage. If the coats are as thinly applied as they should be...they will dry sufficiently in the allotted 35 / 45 minutes if drying conditions are at least acceptable (70 degrees and dry) The surface will feel dry....not cool to the touch. If not....wait.
post #53 of 66
MM, do you have an estimate of how much paint got sprayed onto the screen?
post #54 of 66
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by rengep View Post

MM, do you have an estimate of how much paint got sprayed onto the screen?

While it's impossible to accurately measure, the applications of 7-8 "Duster" coats lays down a coating I estimate at being slightly less than a sheet of Printer Paper. It would I suppose be easy enough to accurately measure though if one used a Micrometer to take "before-after" measurements. But somehow I neglected to have one handy.

Next time for sure! tongue.gifbiggrin.gifwink.gifcool.gif

As I have stated previously, there is a slight ridge at the edge of the painted area that is noticeable when one runs a fingertip across it. But visually, from 12" away, no noticeable shadow that would represent an "raised edge" can be seen. So the coating is very thin. Repeated raising / lowering of the screen produces no abhorrent wrinkles. The coating itself is extremely smooth. (...owing no doubt to the use of the 1.0 mm Needle...)

Member Tiddler has painted retractable screens using a Roller (ugh!) and had what can be said to be very acceptable results.
As a precaution he also made certain the screen stayed in the "down" position for at least 6-7 days before it was retracted. Over the few years since he posted about his experiences (2007) I have never seen any feedback about that much heavier coating ever cracking or peeling, but Tiddler doesn't stop in very often anymore. In any case, two coats using a Roller would amount to being at least 12+ "sprayed" Dusters if indeed not more. Also, the paint mix used today on my project, as well as what is suggested for others, contains Polyurethane and Water, which besides adding to the thinness of the paint itself, contributes to the degree of flexibility in the dried product. Tiddler used an exterior "self-priming" paint as is....letting the built in flexibility of an exterior latex paint do the job.

The last Retractable I painted was a 135"er (non-tensioned) that was done "in place" in a Formal Living Room in a $3.5 Mil home in Rancho Sante Fe, CA. That was also in 2007 and the PJ used was a Epson 1080UB. However on that one I used the venerable 'ol Wagner Control Spray....the early Model that came with a 1.6mm tip. It too was a Silver Fire 4.0 (original formula). The last time I checked back (3 months ago) that screen was still in place and being used with great regularity and enjoyment. Considering the fact that when deployed in a "Down" position it covered a large Arched Case opening into the main Front Foyer of the home, one can be certain it was retracted after every use. If one supposes that the Screen was used at minimum 50 times a year, what with 5 years having elapsed that would amount to at least 250 retraction cycles.

So far....no issues.

Nuff Said.cool.gif
post #55 of 66
That was some great reassuring reading. Not that I have any doubts about the flexibility and strength when it comes to acrylics. As for the amount of paint applied I was thinking more in the line of how many oz went through the gun. biggrin.gif

Measuring the thickness of the applied coat probably would be interesting for some I guess but in regards to a noob like myself I think I'll focus on applying the paint correctly first.
post #56 of 66
Thread Starter 

Just two more days and the Show will be over! I'm always glad to be a part of it...but REALLY glad to see it come to a end. redface.gif

Some exciting news. The Home is now sold, and the new owner wants a Dedicated Theater in the expandable Attic, opting to leave everything in place in the room shown as a casual entertainment area. (whew!)

The new room will be pretty cool. 12' wide 2:39:1 Screen. Panny 8K PJ. 12 Audio Transducers (7.4 system) w/2 Wireless Subs, and two levels of Seating w/Tactile Transducers beneath the Flooring of both seating locations.

No windows. Framed as "I" want it. Lighting as "I" specify it. Room Colors as "I" determine them. Equipment selection is what "I" decide it will be.

Pretty much makes all the hassle of making this wholly inappropriate room featured in this Thread.into a serviceable Theater all worth it. wink.gif Well, that, and all the other potential new business coming from the 30K+ attendance. biggrin.gif

I might finish this Thread out with a few more screenies....maybe,.....dependent upon the crowds I have to deal with on these last two days. Any requests should be forthcoming asap or forever hold your peace.

Until......................? cool.gif
post #57 of 66
Congratulations on a successful show and the new business!!!

Any screen shots will be good to close the show up (if you have time)

Once again congrats! smile.gif
post #58 of 66
Hi MM, before you are going to finish this thread, may I know what's the image brightness (in foot lambert) of all those screenshots you were took & posted here?
post #59 of 66
Thread Starter 
40 fl using "Dynamic Movie" in low lamp mode. The PJ was "NOT" calibrated to the hue of Gray of the Screen.

68 fl if I use "Brightest", but that mode has a decided Greenish push and engages the Fan into "High Speed" mode.

50 fl using Gaming, but that also engages the Fan into "High Speed" mode. Too noisy but far.

Strangely enough, engaging "High Altitude" mode did not ramp up Fan Speed. So I left that on so as to be certain the PJ got plenty of cooling.

Going back today to check "hours" to see how much use I put on the Lamp. At this conjecture, and with the usage the PJ got during the 24 days of the Show ( 9 hrs daily average...) I'm expecting to see about 220 hours (...including my own set-up time and testing...) I'd say that pretty much is a testament to the initial reliability of the ViewSonic.
post #60 of 66
Thanks MM, your info is very useful
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