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Anyone have an NAD T787? - Page 3

post #61 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by GunterYa View Post

No doubt the NADT787 is a fine audio machine, however, after months of tweaking and working with the NAD rep, NAD engineers, PSB speaker engineers, and the Audyssey engineers, I gave up trying to "fix" the clarity issues with dialogue. Several people have posted that this system colors the dialogue, making it difficult to understand when watching videos...let me tell you...it does.

My dealer was kind enough to exchange the T787 for the SC79 Elite and I couldn't be happier!

What? Pioneer? Really??
Yeah, really! The SC79 is unbelievably crisp! Everything about it is so advanced in every way. I no longer have to constantly tweak the audio settings during a video.

If you are looking for a "warmer" sound, audio only, then the T787 is for you.
However, if you require a system that will mainly be used for video content, then by all means, seriously look into the SC79.
(Both units were connected to an OPPO BDP-105 Blu-ray player).

The SC79 has a selectable setting to "warm" the sound or make it "crisp". (The NAD is a tad warmer...but not much).
The SC79 also boasts an amazing menu of THX selectable effects that really adds a true surround cinematic experience.
The SC79 MCACC calibration (and the means to tweak the calibrated results/settings) is superb! All in a nice GUI.
Also, with my 7.1 setup I am able to BI-AMP the SC79...not possible with the T787. You will notice the difference!

Although not required, it even has an equalizer and dialogue enhancement feature...(maybe for real old videos??)
The SC79 features Virtual Height and Virtual Width and selectable placement/location settings for your surrounds.
The SC79 help menu is far superior in depth and detail.
4K ready.

All video and audio settings are available on an APP for your phone making it easier to tweak in the dark instead of fumbling for a remote. (By the way, the backlit remote of the T787 is much better than the SC79 remote so download the APP if you get the SC79).

Again, I am not bashing the T787. Both units deliver exceptional quality and a true home theater experience.
You need to evaluate your requirements.
Well, I am glad if you are happy with the Pioneer. One point I have to let you know. That amp has half the transformer the Nad has, running seven speakers and bi amplifying your floor standers puts a bigger load on that one smaller transformer. Will sound good at low levels, but ultimately overcome your transformer at high levels. Your combination may allow it as Psb speakers have smaller voice coils and more pronounced mid. You have less pronounced mid because you have less power. Matching hifi is more important than anything else. You found yourself matching up better with the Pioneer, and that is no reference to the T787. Google Michael Fremer's review on the T787 and find out at which level the T787 comes in. He tested the amp on 68000usd Wilson Maxx 3's, and found the amp to drive those 4ohm loads with ease. 7.1 does not sound better than 5.1, no matter what you do. At 5.1 the Nad is happy to bi amplify and keep full control of the speaker. Small transformer directly infuences voice coil control, especially on 7.1. Nad T787 makes 120w rms on all channels driven, as opposed to 99% of other brands claiming 130w rms, one channel driven. Those 130w rms one channel driven amps loose voice coil control on 75w rms all channels driven. In the end, if you are happy, everybody is happy. If a 100000usd system is un matched, a 10000 matched system will sound better. I would have changed the speakers before I changed the amp, but that is just me. Pioneer elite is good quality, not the same thing though.

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post #62 of 78
Just got a t787 which replaced a lemon 785 that blew the center channel and failed to be repaired.

Does the t787 have some type of timer where it goes into standby if it has no signal after a period of time? I notice if I play a cd the NAD turns off after the CD completes. Haven't looked closely enough to see how long it takes. Never saw this with the t785.

Also I am noticing that if I do commercial skipping or rewind on my TiVo, it seems like it takes a few seconds for the NAD to sync the audio back. I will hear no audio fir a few secs and then it will come on. I haven't seen this with the 785 either.

firmware is 1.41

thanks
Phil
post #63 of 78
Hi Phil,
I also have a T787, but it's not going into standby mode by itself.
I have neither the problem with audio sync as you describe.
I did have a problem with sending both Audio og Video through HDMI from my TV Decoder. This was when I had the T785.
I ended up sending Video through HDMI and have an Optical connection for Audio.
When I moved to the T787 I just kep this combination. Haven't checked if it will work better with the T787 to only use HDMI for both Audio and Video.
I never dound out where the problem was, the T785 or the TV decoder.

I am running Firmware 1.37.
Anyone knows what has been changed from 1.37 to 1.41?

I really appreciate the T787. It's a wonderful upgrade from the T785.
I had too much noise from the fans and audio drop out's at the end of the T785's life.
The T787 has not had any problems what so ever the year I have had it.
post #64 of 78
I'm also really curious if anyone knows what changes were added in 1.41.

I'm currently running 1.39 (the minimum version needed to support the iOS app). I'm getting ready to rerun the full Audessey setup, and would love to load the latest firmware first. Unfortunately, NAD support doesn't send you the latest update unless it'll fix a specific problem for you. Given the functional and quality enhancements they've made in the past, I'd really like to stay on the current version.

Thanks!
post #65 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peteraudiophile View Post

Well, I am glad if you are happy with the Pioneer. One point I have to let you know. That amp has half the transformer the Nad has, running seven speakers and bi amplifying your floor standers puts a bigger load on that one smaller transformer. Will sound good at low levels, but ultimately overcome your transformer at high levels. Your combination may allow it as Psb speakers have smaller voice coils and more pronounced mid. You have less pronounced mid because you have less power. Matching hifi is more important than anything else. You found yourself matching up better with the Pioneer, and that is no reference to the T787. Google Michael Fremer's review on the T787 and find out at which level the T787 comes in. He tested the amp on 68000usd Wilson Maxx 3's, and found the amp to drive those 4ohm loads with ease. 7.1 does not sound better than 5.1, no matter what you do. At 5.1 the Nad is happy to bi amplify and keep full control of the speaker. Small transformer directly infuences voice coil control, especially on 7.1. Nad T787 makes 120w rms on all channels driven, as opposed to 99% of other brands claiming 130w rms, one channel driven. Those 130w rms one channel driven amps loose voice coil control on 75w rms all channels driven. In the end, if you are happy, everybody is happy. If a 100000usd system is un matched, a 10000 matched system will sound better. I would have changed the speakers before I changed the amp, but that is just me. Pioneer elite is good quality, not the same thing though.

You are leaving out one of the most important differences in the amplifier types, their efficiencies. There is a useful overview - Ten Things You Always Wanted to Know About Amplifiers - by Alan Lofft of amplifiers here that many people should familiarise themselves with as it is really important when you start spouting comparisons. In particular this part is extremely important:
Quote:
Class A/B amplifiers combine the virtues of Class A and Class B designs by having one output device stay on a bit longer, while the other device takes over amplifying the other half of the audio waveform. In other words, there is a small current on at all times in the crossover portion of each output device, which eliminates the potential switching distortion of a pure Class B design. Efficiency of a Class A/B amp is still about 50%.

Class D amplifiers, although there are a number of different design variations, are essentially switching amplifiers or Pulse Width Modulator (PWM) designs. The incoming analog audio signal is used to modulate a very high frequency PWM carrier that works the output stage either fully on or off. This ultra-high frequency carrier must be removed from the audio output with a reconstruction filter so that no ultra-high frequency switching components remain to corrupt the audio signals. As previously mentioned, Class D designs are extremely efficient, typically in the range of 85% to 90% or more.

The Pioneer is certified for THX Ultra 2 Plus which is a pretty rigid certification to obtain and clearly demonstrates it is up to the task of having a robust amplifier section. Don't get me wrong I think NAD builds exceptional hardware and have owned them, and enjoyed them, in the past. Just that the SC-79 is a world-class AVR and that it destroys the NAD in SNR a more important spec than amplifier power (non-clipping). The SC-79 achieves an SNR with A-weighting of 118.6dB whereas according to the review you quoted the NAD T787 achieves 103.26dB, a 19-bit resolution compared to 17-bit resolution for the NAD.

YMMV.

Cheers.
post #66 of 78
Asked NAD for the 1.41 update and they sent it over - no problem. I'm planning on flashing tonight, and while I kind of doubt I'll notice any changes right away, I'll definitely report back if I do!
post #67 of 78
Done. Per the upgrade notes, the following were introduced in 1.41:

* Add support for Control4 Simple Device Discovery Protocol (SDDP).
* Improve HDMI stability with various input devices.

In addition to upgrading the main firmware to 1.41, the video firmware was upgraded to 1.10, and the DSP is at 1.05b. I don't have the release notes handy for 1.39, but I do know that it added support for the iOS app.
post #68 of 78
I have a T777 and I it is supposed to go into standby if in signal (I believe it's 1/2 hour) - I don't remember where I read it now - I think it may have been somewhere on the NAD website.
post #69 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by RC1991 View Post

I have a T777 and I it is supposed to go into standby if in signal (I believe it's 1/2 hour) - I don't remember where I read it now - I think it may have been somewhere on the NAD website.

This is a feature. It can be disabled by going into the Menu->Setup Menu->Control Setup->Auto Standby (On/Off).
post #70 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by octbit View Post

This is a feature. It can be disabled by going into the Menu->Setup Menu->Control Setup->Auto Standby (On/Off).

Thanks for the confirmation! I didn't see it in the manual anywhere but saw it somewhere - did not know how to disable so appreciate the info.
post #71 of 78
NAD claims that because the Tivo HD uses hdmi 1.2 that it doesn't have a lip sync feature. Doesn't explain why it worked fine on the 785 and not the 787.

Ive also noticed ARC is flakey. Usually works fine and sometimes I need to turn the 787 off and on to get it back. Not sure if it's the 787 or sony tv that gets confused.

My use of ARD is the following. I have Twin View (P&P) on the tv. One window is on the hdmi input from the 787 which is on a TiVo, the other window is on the tv tuner.
Whne I have the TiVo window active, the 787 is outputting the TiVo audio, when the tuner window is active, ARC becomes active and sends the tv audio to the 787.
Sometimes the ARC doent activate and the tv tuner sound comes over the tv speakers.
post #72 of 78
I have 2 issues with my new 787. One is that ARC works intermittently. I have to turn the 787 off and back on to get it back. I guess it could be the sony tv too. I activate when switching twin view windows on the tv. One window is on my hdmi input to the 787 which is on a TiVo input. The other window is on the tv tuner. So when I make the tuner window active aufio switches to the tv sound and goes to the 787 over arc.

Nad support just says the CEC is not a perfect protocol and they can't support all manufacturers. They are not even considering that they may have a bug.

The other problem is with a TiVo HD model. It's an older model but it worked fine with my 785. Basically when I do commercial skips I get audio pops and intermittently audio will get lost for 5 secs while it syncs up. I have to do the 10 sec backup button to hear the sound I lost. Nad support response is that the TiVo is old and only supports hdmi 1.2 while the 787 is on 1.4. Again it worked fine with 785 which was on hdmi 1.3.

Granted neither problem is a show stopper but would be nice to get fixed.

The TiVo issue is easily reproducible but I have no idea what causes the arc to fail. I don't use twin view all the time mainly to watch a ball game on the side with another show. One I get it working it keeps working. But when I start the twin view option it doesn't always kick in.
post #73 of 78
I can't help with the ARC issue as I don't use it, but I'm fairly certain the popping noise was introduced with firmware 1.41, which included a video board update.

I'm having the same issue with my PS4, and did not have the problem with 1.39. In my case, it seems to happen when the audio track changes. For instance, when navigating menus on a bluray, or when it's showing the various copyright notices.

I may still have the old 1.39 update somewhere so I'll look around, however, I don't know if the receiver supports downgrading. In the meantime, I'll contact NAD support as well.

I'm sort of surprised at how hand-wavy they were with your problems. I've always received great support from them. I'll let you know what I hear.
post #74 of 78
Thanks, I had the popping issue that you described on my 785. Usually on sports channels where the commercial was in 2.0 and the main show was in 5.1.
And you hear the pop when just playing the recording. No commercial skip necessary to hear the pop.

This is different, the audio track isn't changing, it can be during the main show. I hear the pop as soon as I hit the button on the remote. The pop doen't occur during normal playback.
This pop isn't as loud as when I had it on the 785 so just slightly annoying. I'd prefer the fix of the audio loss.

I have gone backwards on the firmware release on my old 785 so it is possible.
I think I have 1.39 but not 1.41 so I cant go back to 1.41 if 1.39 doesn't help.

thanks!
post #75 of 78
Hmm, ok, yes, that is a different issue. Would you want to try the 1.41 update to see if it corrects your problem? I still have the installer. Per the release notes I posted above, they claim that:

* Improve HDMI stability with various input devices.
post #76 of 78
Hi, if you can send me the 1.41 installer I'd appreciate it. My 787 has 1.41 on it. I have 1.39 and would like to see if the problem exists on that release on the 787 (it was fine on the 787) so my problem could be related to the 1.41 release or to the 787.

I don't want to downgrade to 1.39 to test and not be able to restore 1.41 if the problem exists in 1.39 on the 787.

thanks

I'll PM you with my email
post #77 of 78
Does anyone have the 1.39 installer? I have 1.41 and want tosee if it broke something. I had 1.39 for 785 but that is not compatible.
post #78 of 78
CEC suddenly stopped working on my 787. Used to be any time I turned on my Oppo bluray, it would turn on the 787, switch it to the input and also turn on my tv.
Now nothing happens. Also ARC won't work from my Sony tv, it I go into the tv setup and try to detect CEC devices from the HDSMI settings, it does not find anything.

NAD support suggested turning off CEC on the 787 and uplug for a minute and then turn back on. No luck. I also did a factory reste and no luck either,

I did a factory reset on the Oppo and switched hdmi cable but iut seems like it has to be the 787 since ARC not working would have nothing to do with the bluray.

Any ideas?
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