AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › 2 Channel Audio › NAD Stereo receiver or Surround receiver for 2ch audio?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

NAD Stereo receiver or Surround receiver for 2ch audio?

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
Just that question alone should be easy to answer but it's a bit more complicated than that... wink.gif

I'm trying to build a decent 2 channel system for my g/f using second hand parts. She wants to listen to CDs and FM-radio.
I found a couple of Canton GLE490 3-way floor standing speakers http://www.canton.de/en/archiv/produkt/gle490.htm a couple of days ago.

Now I'm trying to find a receiver (or amp plus tuner) to drive these speakers well and a matching CD-player.

When looking at the second hand market here in Sweden I've found the NAD C740 (2x35W continuous at 8 ohm) and NAD C720BEE (2x50W continous at 8 ohm) stereo receivers.
However I've also found a couple of older NAD surround receivers that have higher 2ch specs than these stereo receivers(T743(2x70W, T744(2x70) and T753(2x90W)).

So my question is: Would a surround sound receiver like the T753 with a 2ch spec of 2x90W be better than a stereoreceiver like the C720BEE with 2x50W?

I've also looked at Cambridge Audio amps and CD-players and found the 640A(2x65W) and 650A(2x75W) along with the 640C or 640D players. How would these compare to the NAD receivers I mentioned?
Of course with these I'm missing the FM part so I'd need a tuner as well.
But then I found the 540R surround receiver with a 2ch spec of 2x100W along with a 540D player. So then I'm back to the same question as in my headline except now with Cambridge parts.

Suggestions?? confused.gif
post #2 of 16
Quote:
So my question is: Would a surround sound receiver like the T753 with a 2ch spec of 2x90W be better than a stereoreceiver like the C720BEE with 2x50W?
Probably not. Those look like pretty sensitive speakers. 50 wpc will go a long way.
post #3 of 16
The power ratings are probably not relevant since the speakers are pretty sensitive.

A receiver that includes a tuner seems to be what you need.
post #4 of 16
Thread Starter 
Just to throw something else in the mix as well I found this Rotel system for about $700. It's almost 20 year old tech but reading up on the components is enough to start drooling... biggrin.gif 2x200W continous power, 120 amps... eek.gif
Tuner "RT-935ax"
CD "RCD-965BX"
Pre-amp "RC-972"
Amp "RB-990"
post #5 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamilton_1974 View Post

Just to throw something else in the mix as well I found this Rotel system for about $700. It's almost 20 year old tech but reading up on the components is enough to start drooling... biggrin.gif 2x200W continous power, 120 amps... eek.gif
120 amps is a typo.

So lets see. You want to set up a nice 2ch system for your g/f, and you're looking at a 20 year old Rotel? eek.gif

What's she going to do with all that power? Or what's she going to do if the thing goes bust? It's 20 years old. Aren't you worried about the electrolytic caps?
post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 
Well, that Rotel system wasn't really a serious option... Was just really impressed by the specs when I started reading about the parts.
So, any thoughts on the parts in my first post?

Also I've been reading reviews until my eyes bleed these last two days but they only go so far since they're not using the same kind of speakers that I'll be using.
So I've booked a listening session at a local hifi-store where I'll bring my speakers and try them out with some (or similar) of the NAD and Cambridge parts I listed earlier.
Edited by Hamilton_1974 - 10/7/12 at 1:10am
post #7 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamilton_1974 View Post

Just that question alone should be easy to answer but it's a bit more complicated than that... wink.gif
I'm trying to build a decent 2 channel system for my g/f using second hand parts. She wants to listen to CDs and FM-radio.
I found a couple of Canton GLE490 3-way floor standing speakers http://www.canton.de/en/archiv/produkt/gle490.htm a couple of days ago.
Now I'm trying to find a receiver (or amp plus tuner) to drive these speakers well and a matching CD-player.
When looking at the second hand market here in Sweden I've found the NAD C740 (2x35W continuous at 8 ohm) and NAD C720BEE (2x50W continous at 8 ohm) stereo receivers.
However I've also found a couple of older NAD surround receivers that have higher 2ch specs than these stereo receivers(T743(2x70W, T744(2x70) and T753(2x90W)).
So my question is: Would a surround sound receiver like the T753 with a 2ch spec of 2x90W be better than a stereoreceiver like the C720BEE with 2x50W?

I think that it is a mistake to characterize receivers and amplifiers in terms of a single specification, namely power. It is also a mistake to presume that a more powerful amp or receiver is going to sound better than a less powerful one. Finally, used equipment is always a crap shoot, particularly when it is more than 5 years old. Electronics gear degrades over years and decades, even if only just in storage. Speakers are as much of a crap shoot as anything, because you don't know which drivers have been fried or damaged by the previous owners, which have degraded due to the passage of time, with problems such as foam rot.

For example, a common problem with speakers is voice coil rubbing. This often is due to cumulative overheating due to overdriving. Every time the driver voice coil is overheated its shape and/or size is distorted. Eventually it is distorted so much that if rubs against the magnetic pole piece. Thing is the last time it was heated up, distorted and started rubbing was just a brick in a wall that started building up years ago. With electronics the big problem is electrolytic capacitors. Some will last for decades and others will start losing value only a few months after the equipment is built. The jury decision on an electrolytic capacitor's life is out until it fails. No warnings are given.

In my experience a rule women don' t seem to be lifetime members of the crank 'er up club like many men are. They very sensibly want something that will play nicely at lower volumes and perhaps respectably loudly when they are so inclined. Small size, good looks and ease of use are more often their cup of tea.
post #8 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

In my experience a rule women don' t seem to be lifetime members of the crank 'er up club like many men are. They very sensibly want something that will play nicely at lower volumes and perhaps respectably loudly when they are so inclined. Small size, good looks and ease of use are more often their cup of tea.

+1 to that. I'll add that women seem to be less tolerant of balky or failed technology. They don't want to futz with it, they just want it to work. It's true with computers, it's true with the toaster oven too, so stereos are in the middle there somewhere. My lady put up with my hacked together, partly vintage system for years. Her being frustrated was unacceptable, so now the stuff is new, works better, sounds great, and she's happy. And plays music out of decent speakers connected to her computer/iTunes.

When the woman is happy, everybody's happy.
post #9 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I think that it is a mistake to characterize receivers and amplifiers in terms of a single specification, namely power. It is also a mistake to presume that a more powerful amp or receiver is going to sound better than a less powerful one.

Thanks for your input!
I do know that power in it self is far from what makes a system sound good. I guess my focus on Watts in the previous post was to just find out if those amps and receivers could drive these speakers I already got for her in a good way.
And as for how they sound with these speakers that's something I'm going to try and find out when I try them with various equipment at a local hifi-store sometime next week.

It would be interesting to hear if anyone had experience with these speakers but I guess Cantons are not that common in the US...
post #10 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamilton_1974 View Post

And as for how they sound with these speakers that's something I'm going to try and find out when I try them with various equipment at a local hifi-store sometime next week.

Wow. Auditioning amps at a hifi-store...now there's an exercise in futility. Don't even bother. With the rare exception of a few radical designs, the differences you'll think you hear will be the product of some form of bias, perceptual, psychological, whatever. But they won't be real.

Anything to add, Arny?
post #11 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by has7738 View Post

Wow. Auditioning amps at a hifi-store...now there's an exercise in futility. Don't even bother. With the rare exception of a few radical designs, the differences you'll think you hear will be the product of some form of bias, perceptual, psychological, whatever. But they won't be real.
Anything to add, Arny?

I've actually heard stores where they want to move a particular amp and run it a bit hotter than others, Often it's a higher margin product/higher cost. Only twice mind you but it is done.
post #12 of 16
That Rotel gear was quite good for its day, but not what I would use for your setup.

Both the 2-channel NAD and the Cambridge are good choices - why not show them to your GF and let her decide?

Out of curiosity, where in Sweden are you. I spent a great week in and around Malmo a summer ago.
post #13 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by has7738 View Post

Wow. Auditioning amps at a hifi-store...now there's an exercise in futility. Don't even bother. With the rare exception of a few radical designs, the differences you'll think you hear will be the product of some form of bias, perceptual, psychological, whatever. But they won't be real.
Anything to add, Arny?

Just hearty agreement. Auditioning equipment in a Hi Fi store is one of the most futile things to do that I can think of.

I've never seen a Hi Fi store present a fair listening comparison of any kind of audio gear ever, and I've never heard of such a thing ever happening.

I'd like to say that I've heard of people doing at least 1-time demonstrations of a fair listening comparison in some audio store someplace, but I've never ever even heard of that.

The chances of someone walking into an audio store and getting a good comparison of competitive product sound quality is as close to zero as anything in the world.

About as close to a fair comparison as one finds is a switching device that allows various amplifiers and receivers to drive various pairs of speakers, but if anybody thinks that there is any effective level matching, they are dreaming.
post #14 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by has7738 View Post

Wow. Auditioning amps at a hifi-store...now there's an exercise in futility. Don't even bother. With the rare exception of a few radical designs, the differences you'll think you hear will be the product of some form of bias, perceptual, psychological, whatever. But they won't be real.
Anything to add, Arny?
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Just hearty agreement. Auditioning equipment in a Hi Fi store is one of the most futile things to do that I can think of.
I've never seen a Hi Fi store present a fair listening comparison of any kind of audio gear ever, and I've never heard of such a thing ever happening.
I'd like to say that I've heard of people doing at least 1-time demonstrations of a fair listening comparison in some audio store someplace, but I've never ever even heard of that.
The chances of someone walking into an audio store and getting a good comparison of competitive product sound quality is as close to zero as anything in the world.
About as close to a fair comparison as one finds is a switching device that allows various amplifiers and receivers to drive various pairs of speakers, but if anybody thinks that there is any effective level matching, they are dreaming.

Well, I'd say you're both wrong in this case! I'm very glad auditioned the equipment I did in the store. They had a designated listening room where they put up the different amps and matching CD-players we were looking at and I brought in my girlfriend's Canton speakers and hooked them up in turn to the Denon PMA-520AE, NAD C326BEE and Cambridge Audio 651A.

Playing the same songs on all amps, Denon was quickly discarded due to the sound character being very tinny and weak with these bright speakers.
Moving over to NAD was a real yaw-dropper! WOW what a difference! eek.gif A lot more depth and presence. You could really tell that the NAD could drive the speakers way better than the Denon.
Changing to Cambridge Audio gained a little bit of detail but at the cost of much of the bass.
We moved back and forth a couple of times between NAD and Cambridge but it was quite clear to both my g/f (she's the one actually buying the stuff) and me that NAD was the right choice for these speakers.

All amps were set to Direct/Tone defeat. The guy from the store who was helping us never said anything about the sound characteristics of the different amp's or tried to promote one over the other. He simply helped us hook everything up and then kept quiet until after we had come to a descision.

So for us both, auditioning the equipment was anything BUT futile! wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by lespurgeon View Post

That Rotel gear was quite good for its day, but not what I would use for your setup.
Both the 2-channel NAD and the Cambridge are good choices - why not show them to your GF and let her decide?
Out of curiosity, where in Sweden are you. I spent a great week in and around Malmo a summer ago.

I live in Västerås about 100km west of Stockholm while my g/f lives in the suburb of Tumba south of Stockholm and I work at Stockholm-Arlanda international airport north of the city. cool.gif
post #15 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamilton_1974 View Post

Well, I'd say you're both wrong in this case!

To make this very short, were all of the amps properly level-matched none of what you describe below would have never happened.
Quote:
I'm very glad auditioned the equipment I did in the store. They had a designated listening room where they put up the different amps and matching CD-players we were looking at and I brought in my girlfriend's Canton speakers and hooked them up in turn to the Denon PMA-520AE, NAD C326BEE and Cambridge Audio 651A.
Playing the same songs on all amps, Denon was quickly discarded due to the sound character being very tinny and weak with these bright speakers.
Moving over to NAD was a real yaw-dropper! WOW what a difference! eek.gif A lot more depth and presence. You could really tell that the NAD could drive the speakers way better than the Denon.
Changing to Cambridge Audio gained a little bit of detail but at the cost of much of the bass.
We moved back and forth a couple of times between NAD and Cambridge but it was quite clear to both my g/f (she's the one actually buying the stuff) and me that NAD was the right choice for these speakers.
All amps were set to Direct/Tone defeat. The guy from the store who was helping us never said anything about the sound characteristics of the different amp's or tried to promote one over the other. He simply helped us hook everything up and then kept quiet until after we had come to a descision.
So for us both, auditioning the equipment was anything BUT futile! wink.gif

All of the above reactions are easily explainable by the lack of adequate controls in your listening experience.

I know this is hard to believe, but it is one of those things that you quickly learn if you ever have the opportunity to actually properly audition amps, music players and receivers.

Proper auditioning requires 3 basic controls: Level match within 0.1 dB over the audible range, playing the identical same music, and lack of knowledge of what you are actually listening to at any particular time during the actual comparison.

Only a tiny fraction of audiophiles have ever personally experienced a proper listening comparison. Proper listening comparisons take more work than most are willing to put forth, especially given that the results are usually economically counter productive.
post #16 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

To make this very short, were all of the amps properly level-matched none of what you describe below would have never happened.
All of the above reactions are easily explainable by the lack of adequate controls in your listening experience.
I know this is hard to believe, but it is one of those things that you quickly learn if you ever have the opportunity to actually properly audition amps, music players and receivers.
Proper auditioning requires 3 basic controls: Level match within 0.1 dB over the audible range, playing the identical same music, and lack of knowledge of what you are actually listening to at any particular time during the actual comparison.
Only a tiny fraction of audiophiles have ever personally experienced a proper listening comparison. Proper listening comparisons take more work than most are willing to put forth, especially given that the results are usually economically counter productive.

Yes, this is correct, done it myself many times. Even a slight level difference and you'll pick the louder one as better. Any knowledge of what you're listening to will also spin the results. If you know you're listening to the amp that somehow looks better, or is in better light so it looks better, and the results are biased. If you want to discern the true audible differences you won't find that out in a stereo store.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: 2 Channel Audio
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › 2 Channel Audio › NAD Stereo receiver or Surround receiver for 2ch audio?