Official Sony VPL-HW50ES Owners Thread - Page 35

ok so i got my projector, set it up.. some good and some bad...

2d is great, great picture, brightness with or without lights, all that is fine


3D however is all screwed up and maybe someone here can offer some suggestions

ghosting is OUT OF CONTROL.... i am playing a HSBS 3d movie from PC > Receiver > projector, and the resolution when i turn on 3d SBS in the projector is just junk compared to what i saw on my friends Epson 5020. On the Epson it looked clean, not like i was watching something in 520 resolution lol...

also GHOSTING, its EVERYWHERE! I close one eye, and i see that eye's frame + the constant ghosting....you guys think the unit or glasses are to blame here or what? I am taking this to my friends house after work tomorrow to try on his setup to see if the same thing happens. Please if anyone has any ideas let me know... i am going to keep testing...




btw dont let this deter anyone from buying the projector, it is really great in 2D, just need to fix 3D here or figure out if the hardware in the one i got is just bad....

Sounds like your glasses are off or out of sync if its that bad.

It's your pc , what are u using to play 3d blu ray. I can't get total media theater or power DVD to work right with 3d. Try a stand alone 3d player.

I guess he is watching .mkv hsbs 3d movies with mpc-hc, so how TMT is going to play it any better? Maybe sony can't play properly .mkv hsbs movies?

Hi. If you are using a htpc to play your movies, this might help.

I had a few issues getting 3D to work but am now successfully playing 3d MKV HSBS movies as well as blu ray etc. I had no luck in Media Centre but now use Powere DVD to play either .mkv's or 3D blu ray.

Make sure the Sony has correctly applied the 3D format in the 3D menu. For some reason it initially kept defaulting to simulated 2D to 3D and until I worked it out results were far from great! I had to go in and manually change it to 3D SBS although now it defaults without issue.

Secondly, If you use Power DVD or similar app make sure it to has correctly set in 3D mode when movie is playing. (there is. '3D' button is long with play/stop/rewind etc when you hover over the movie.

And of course you need to endure your glasses are charged, on and in synch. If all goes to plan you should definitely be seen some sharp 3D that will rival your friends Epson!

Thanks for the response!

yes i am going to test that out today. I meant to update this and mention, what i am currnetly doing is PC > PS3 > Receiver > projector

this is the same process used for the Epson 5020 and the results are just trash. I am curious if there is a way to manually resync the glasses ( i know there is i just have not done it yet ). It is just terrible as is and as i said the resolution produced this way again is like watching a 3d movie in standard 480i resolution, it just looks terrible. I have been sampling different TVs for a long time as well as a few different projectors so you all can trust me when i say that, i am not just being a noob and not understanding what different resolution and pictures look like

i of cfourse also tried changing the glasses brightness from min to max, literally NO CHANGE on ghosting so i think like you said the glasses may be out of sync or something. I want to eliminate anything from the receiver etc so again after work today i will be taking it to my friends house.

the way it is now, i had to force the projector into 3d SBS mode to get it to display the H SBS content correctly. Again, exact same process on the Epson, only the results are night and day in the Epson favor ( Tonight i will test in his enviornment as well as testing straight from the HTPC to see how the content goes there.

quick question about that.... when running just from HTPC, you need to set powerDVD into 3D mode SBS AND The projector, or leave the projector on Auto ?


EDIT - Hypothetically, if all my cables in my equipment were NOT High speed ( still 1.3 but not rated high speed ) do you think this could account for the lower resolution and glasses sync issues ( mass ghosting ) ? or only the cable from receiver to proejctor needs to be rated high speed? Or doesnt matter at all, and or its an all or nothing kind of deal with those cables ?
Edited by tothjm - 1/18/13 at 5:38am

Hi also answered what I could to your PM

you should be able to leave projector on Auto mode, it may have been my noob-ness to 3D but I found it had set to simulated 3D initially which gave sub par performance with major ghosting and sub par resolution as you describe. It wasn't quite as 'AUTO' 3D as I was hoping for

Understood,

when in simulated, it seems to just have no depth ( obviously lol ) but not quite the experience of looking at what seems to be a 3D 480i image lol

I will know more after work... soo frustrating..

I have confirmed that the hdmi cables i am using are 1.3a and thare NOT High speed... just standard


do you guys think this may be the cause of the poor resolution \ glasses sync issues \ Ghosting?

Keep in mind that a "high speed" HDMI cable isn't different from a connectivity point of view (no new pins are required which are absent on non-high speed cables). It has simply been tested (or at least some engineering sample of the cable was tested) and it satisified the higher bandwidth requirements. Many cables not marked as high speed still satisfy the high speed characteristics. In this case they didn't pay to test them to the higher standard, were made before the higher standard, or the manufacturer doesn't want you to know they are just as good (sometimes) as the stuff they charge more for.

IMHO, if you are seeing a picture and it doesn't drop out or have white speckles, your cable is fine.

My experience with the HW30 (previous year's model) is that it does SBS 3D significantly worse than frame packing. Perhaps the HW50 is no different.

Call me cynical, but I believe Sony does this on purpose. Reason? They want to promote 3D Bluray which uses frame packing and don't want Cable Operators / Satallite Guys to have the same quality 3D as they use SBS or TB/OverUnder.

MAyers,

I was actually thinking the same thing just had to remind myself that Blu Ray is Sonys.... the sbs is literally terrible. I wish i could take a picture to show you guys the lack of resolution i am talking about... Just sad that the Epson does the 3d that much better... if that turns out to be the case, i may need to decide how big of a deal that is to me and if i need to send it back.

aside from that the 2d picture is great.


I will confirm tonight and if you are correct and it is still just terrible, I honestly may have to send it back.


is there anyone on here at all, that has this projector, and streams HSBS content from HTPC, another media streamer or the PS3, and can tell me that the picture does not look like everything is super smoothed over, crazy ghosting, etc.


EDIT - Mayers, when you said,

does SBS 3D significantly worse than frame packing

did you mean to say H SBS ? or full SBS becuase that would be frame packing hehe also if you were talking about the HSBS, how were you streaming yours to the projector ?

We will wait your results thank you

Finally got to hang my 50 es last night, 2d looks great but the issue with the glasses loosing sync with the slightest movement of your head is not acceptable for the price we pay,I have no buzz that i can hear.Even when i had it on a table and sitting 3' from it i was having issues.Will the emitter help with this drastically?
Even though it is a great projector this should not be acceptable, My 90es which i still have has no issues with the sync problem. I know the emitter is not that expensive, but that's not the point, Sony should take care of this instead of telling us to go get an emitter, I know from reading that other up too 200 serial number were getting them free of charge but i have a unit in the 500 range and still have an issue with syncing.

Would be interesting to hear from users of new batches of HW50's what the service menu setting is for the emitter especially for all those conspiracy theorists out there that feel this was the only change made?!  As I mentioned in a previous post, I was told by a CR rep from Sony that the IR board was changed but it does seem odd that people with no buzz are posting more and more sync issues.

Yes, i hear no buzz,but move your head a couple inches in either direction and there goes the signal, like i said i have a number in the 500's - i know i can use other glasses (mv3d) but that's not the point.
They had to of had these issues before they shipped the units out, and you would think they would do something too solve the issue so that they would not have all this negative feedback.

 

I forget the exact sequence (check in prior posts in this thread) but if you could post the setting (0 or 1 I believe) in the service menu for the emitter it would be interesting to see if your unit is set on the lower strength?!

My serial number is in the 400's and I have a buzz and my sync sucks. I went in the service menu switched the strength and the buzz went away, but my sync issues sure didn't. I've moved around my room more and there are some sweet spots for sync beyond the 5ft or so I reported before, but they can't hold the sync for very long or even if i barely move my head. I was tempted to put a mirror on the ir port to aim it at my seats, but with the buzz being so annoying I think the external emitter is the best solution. Still waiting for it to ship though. So probably be a week or 2 before I get a chance to test it out.

I'm not sure what all the reasons are for my sync problems, but I do have it ceiling mounted so the ir emitter is on the top side (stupid) and I have a 1.0 gain cinegray screen and all my walls are dark dark brown with flat paint, so other then the screen there will be no bouncing back of the ir. If I get bored this weekend maybe I'll try doing something silly like taping a small mirror above my screen.
Edited by daWill - 1/18/13 at 10:00am

i can comment that dispite my plethora of issues in 3d H SBS with unwatchable ghosting, my model is in the 500s as well, and on any brightness setting, i hear buzzing if i am 3 feet from the projector, the stereo sound washes it out, but you always still know it is there...

i had no sync issues however, i was basically just putting the image on a wall maybe 9 feet away? so 9 to the wall and 9 back to my face. Zero sync issues with that setup, i coudl evne turn my head side to side, no problem.

Both my 231 and 237 units had the Service Menu setting at "0" and when I switched it to "1" the buzzing sound diminished, but did not totally go away. As far as syncing issues, I did notice that my sync was lost when I was sitting on the floor, but as soon as I stood up, the sync came back. (Didn't have my seats at the time) Also, I don't have a screen yet, so this was off unfinished drywall. Once I have my final screen and such in place, I'll report back on sync performance.

Hmmm... didn't realize the terminology is used differently. When I say SbS I mean a 1080p (or 1080i or 720p) signal where half the pixels are for the left eye and the other half are for the right eye. When I say frame packing I mean a MVC (multi-view codec) encoded signal with 1080p for each eye. But I see I may be combining codec with HDMI output.

Anyway, for SbS I meant half pixels per eye. Frame packing I meant full bandwidth, entire resolution per eye.

tothjm,

Could you go to the 'info' panel that gives you signal info on your projector? What signal is it receiving? I have found that any 3D (even framepacked) that is sent at 60p (60Hz) is unwatchable due to ghosting on the HW50. My hypothesis is that the panel just can't switch fast enough with 60p 3D content (would require 120Hz switching). With 24p 3D Blu-Ray, only 48Hz switching is required, which the panels can probably handle (although, I still see some ghosting with 24p 3D, but it's watchable, unlike 720/60 3D gaming with my PS3).

Of course, that hypothesis doesn't explain why Epson can apparently do 3D gaming just fine. I would doubt that they panels have better response times. However, they do render 3D differently, I believe using line doubling and 480Hz processing... so maybe they're able to clear afterimages faster, hence less ghosting...

After reading > 60 pages of the popular comparison thread, i am interested in buying a sony hw50es. However, have some mounting concerns

The room is 15x15 basement space which opens to the left to a large space 15x26 and to the back to a 10x10 space with stairs. The ambient light is minimum at night which is when i plan to use it mostly for cable, movies and rare gaming. the kids are growing to gaming may be improtatnt in next 5 years. there will be ambient light during daytime

here is the issue. i plan to install the projector in a niche (ventilated) in the drop down tray ceiling. the ceiling height is 104". the lowest height of the niche is 16" from the ceiling, so the projector is to be mounted <90" from the floor (bottom within 14" from the ceiling). the throw distance will be between 13 to 13.5 feet as the niche will end at 15' from the screen. i was considering a 110'" screen as there will be a similar drop down niche on the other side. this will allow >2 ft on either side of the ceiling

i was looking at the elite projector calculator (for hw30es) which basically tells me that i have to get closer to 120" for screen size to mount at 13' throw distance so i get within 90' projector height from ceiling. Epson/JVC are more forgiving. the 120" screen will only leave 2' from tthe bottom and 23" from the top (7" from the dropdown tray ceiling). this will be tight

here are my questions:

will it be possible to still mount the sony in such a situation?

what mount do i use. do i need a low profile?

is the vertical shift for 50es better than 30es?

should i switch to epson/jvc?

also need recommendations for screen in my setting? Budget around 1000$
have considered elite screens cine grey and dragonfly grey

that sounds like HSBS...how are you streaming that to your projector? is it a file on your network or?

I will have to check later on as i am at work currently but i will see...

This still does not explain the crappy picture resolution i seem to be experiencing... few more hours and im out of work, going to test this all tonight.. but i honestly dont know if that is my problem bud.. this ghosting is literally unwatchable it is ALWAYS there and you dont even have to TRY to look for it... its just THERE lol it is so viewable, that you cant even really tell what the real picture is suppose to be at times ( maybe a slight exageration, but you can clearly see the ghosting even if you try to tell yourself its not there... )

I will check on the info status for that movie later on.

if this is just how the panel is, and there is no way to watch this type of content HSBS normally without this crap 480i resolution, im returning it for sure... even though the 2d picture is great. There is no reason to keep a $4000 MSRP projector if it does great 2d, but the 3d is literally unwatchable unless you stream it from a 3d blu ray player....screw that.

That's exactly my experience when attempting to play Crisis 2 or Uncharted 3 in stereoscopic 3D from my PS3 on my HW50. Completely unwatchable. 3D Blu-Ray movies are totally watchable though.

Don't know about your resolution issue. That's weird. But SBS is not as good as framepacked; there's always going to be a resolution cost with SBS.

agreed, but the weird thing with that is, the EXACT same content, when played through the SAME rig, on my friends Epson 5020UB, does not lose any of the resolution, infact i can notice no difference in quality ( even though it is half the frames to each eye) somehow the Epson pulls it off...but then HSBS on the Sony is just TERRIBLE.... Again, after tonight if it turns out to just be the proejctor, im returning it and will consider other options, even as good as the 2D picture is, i am not spending $4000 MSRP on a projection device, that will not let me watch HSBS content in any watchable fashion....sorry



Do you think there is a firmware fix for this, or it has to do with the quality of parts used to build this projector?

Does the Epson show a similar level of ghosting as the Sony? From what I hear, it shouldn't. In general, I think Epson tends to have less ghosting than Sony in 3D. I wonder if that's because of the 480Hz processing/line-doubling method I think they use for 3D. Weird thing is though that the Panasonic PT-AE8000U had even more ghosting than the Sony. I figured the Panny used the same technology as Epson, since the PT-AE7000U review over at cine4home.de says the Panasonic used Epson's technology (480Hz/line-doubling, etc.) to help with 3D (jump to section 4.2 here: http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/Panasonic_PTAT5000/PT-AT5000_Test-Final.htm)

But then you'd expect the PT-AE8000U to perform like the Epson. And though I haven't seen the Epson, I can tell you the Panny is significantly worse than my Sony HW50, which is supposed to be slightly worse than the Epson (according to Zombie, I think).

So color me confused!

my buddy has the Epson 5020UB on a 110 white wall until he gets his projector. Now playing a HSBS movie streaming from his PS3 pulled from his local network, to see any ghosting you really had to look for it... i didnt see any just watching normally, and i even tried moving back to 9 feet, and going as close as 3 feet... and even at 3 feet, i had to REALY look for it to see it.... so normal watching, its basically non existent.


and ya im confused but all i know is after tonight, if the HSBS 3d is still terrible even setup on my buddies connections... im sending this sony back on Monday that is a huge deal breaker for me even with the awesome and better 2d than the Epson ( in my opinion )

SXRD vs LCD.... on the sony you see basically no pixle struction, its there but NO SPACE between pixles..... the Epson you can see black between the pixles if you go up to the scree nand look for it... not viewable from far back of course

is there also some other guys who have problems with half sbs content?

Please let us know what the signal info on the HW50 says when you're watching this offensive ghosting content... I'm really curious to see if it's 60p. I'm willing to bet it is.