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Official Sony VPL-HW50ES Owners Thread - Page 36

post #1051 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by tothjm View Post

*UPDATE*

after further testing i will be keepign the 50ES


I found that you can basically almost enitrely eliminate ghosting on HSBS if you set the depth back to the default of 0 ( you can get away with 1, but you will see Some ghosting still )

if you are watching frame packed, the ghosting seems to be a little less.... so when i watch any of this content, putting glasses brightness on MAX, and depth on 1, it is VERY watchable ( though still not as good as the Epson can do it...


if you REALLY want near perfection, do glasses brightness 3, and depth 0..that will get rid of i would say 95% of the ghosting issues in both HSBS AND Frame packed


2d destroys the Epson 5020, especially with RC turned up to about 30.


I am curious however if there can be a firmware update later to fix some of the ghosting issues, or if this is just an issue with the panels used or SXRD in general ? I notice when the Epson does 3d, it looks l.ike 2 images at once, but whne the Sony does it, you can actually see it switching back and forth, like its not as fast as the Epson...


curious if anyone else can see this as i need to know if my unit needs to be exchanged or not.

Buddy I learned something on a german ht forum about that and i asked them for you why sony sucks with halfsbs and they replied me, try this solution:

@ Cemo62 welcome to the forum hifi sony thread. the only "bad" thing on HSBS or hou is, that the sony beamer can not use frame interpolation on material playing higher than 24hz ... so if you have files that play at 30hz for example, there is no possibilty to get the fi to work. if its important to get those files playing with frame insertion (fi), just use splash per player or other software. ... those players can bring the files up to 60 frames per second, so the sony dont have to do the job fi on blu ray 3d content at 24hz the fi is nearly perfect from sony ... so you can not change the perspective from left to right, if Necessary ... but that is, in this case you can use software player to swap the left perspective to the right eye ... the HW50 has an outstanding 3D performance with only those two lags on HSBS data ...

and i asked Buddy thank you very much for your reply, so do you mean I can play Half SBS content with success (watchable and minimal ghosting) if I use Splash Pro Player (from a notebook)? Did i understand it right? Kind Regards

and they said: @ Cemo62 you re right! HSBS you can watch with any software player on the HW50, you only have to chosse side by side in the sony 3d menu for watching HSBS in real 3d ... splash pro, power dvd etc are able to work with their own frame interpolation ... edit: you have to match the screen resolution from the Sony video projector with your desktop settings on your laptop of course ...

please try this and tell me the result
post #1052 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by cemo62 View Post

Buddy I learned something on a german ht forum about that and i asked them for you why sony sucks with halfsbs and they replied me, try this solution:

@ Cemo62 welcome to the forum hifi sony thread. the only "bad" thing on HSBS or hou is, that the sony beamer can not use frame interpolation on material playing higher than 24hz ... so if you have files that play at 30hz for example, there is no possibilty to get the fi to work. if its important to get those files playing with frame insertion (fi), just use splash per player or other software. ... those players can bring the files up to 60 frames per second, so the sony dont have to do the job fi on blu ray 3d content at 24hz the fi is nearly perfect from sony ... so you can not change the perspective from left to right, if Necessary ... but that is, in this case you can use software player to swap the left perspective to the right eye ... the HW50 has an outstanding 3D performance with only those two lags on HSBS data ...

and i asked Buddy thank you very much for your reply, so do you mean I can play Half SBS content with success (watchable and minimal ghosting) if I use Splash Pro Player (from a notebook)? Did i understand it right? Kind Regards

and they said: @ Cemo62 you re right! HSBS you can watch with any software player on the HW50, you only have to chosse side by side in the sony 3d menu for watching HSBS in real 3d ... splash pro, power dvd etc are able to work with their own frame interpolation ... edit: you have to match the screen resolution from the Sony video projector with your desktop settings on your laptop of course ...

please try this and tell me the result

sounds like i need to turn on Film Processing mode to add that extra frame in there. I hear that that cuases too much flicker for some, but i will try it. I was able to basically remove the ghosting by putting brightness on 3 or max, then move depth back to 0 instead of 2.

but when i hook this back up i will try the film processing mode and see is that helps.... but again at a 4k price point, it should just work.

If i am missing the point here and there is something else i need to do or try please let me know but to achieve that extra black frame in there i read i need to enable that film processing mode.

*EDIT*

i have power DVD 11 and i see no where to add additional frames in by the way ( but i also dont usually stream from HTPC, I have a seperate media box for full ISO 3d, and the ps3 usually streams the SBS ( though i cna stream that from my PC as well np for testing.. just doint see this extra option in the software )
post #1053 of 3345
Oke tell me pls ur results, half sbs content is important for me because original bluray discs are very expensive in our country (turkey). so if sony sucks with it i wont buy it, i will wait news from you
post #1054 of 3345
is anyone else able to test this out who owns it and sees ghosting in HSBS that is out of control lol... i dont have the projector hooked up at the moment to test...
post #1055 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by tothjm View Post

I notice when the Epson does 3d, it looks l.ike 2 images at once, but whne the Sony does it, you can actually see it switching back and forth, like its not as fast as the Epson...

Could you elaborate on this? Are you speaking of when you're looking at the screen without the 3D glasses? If so, it may simply be that you're noticing is that the Sony flickers (b/c of its lamp modulation) while the Epson doesn't (doesn't modulate its lamp).

It's kind of unlikely your eyes are seeing the frames being flashed individually, since I believe that occurs at 96Hz (flash each eye's frame twice; i.e., L1-R1-L1-R1-L2-R2-L2-R2, ignoring any dark frames) with the Sony. I may be wrong about that though.
post #1056 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

Could you elaborate on this? Are you speaking of when you're looking at the screen without the 3D glasses? If so, it may simply be that you're noticing is that the Sony flickers (b/c of its lamp modulation) while the Epson doesn't (doesn't modulate its lamp).

It's kind of unlikely your eyes are seeing the frames being flashed individually, since I believe that occurs at 96Hz (flash each eye's frame twice; i.e., L1-R1-L1-R1-L2-R2-L2-R2, ignoring any dark frames) with the Sony. I may be wrong about that though.

right, this is wit the glasses OFF

it just doesnt switch back and forth NEARLY as fast as the Epson, as when you look at the Epson without glasses, it looks like 2 constant images, the Sony, it slower and im just wondering if that is adding to the ghosting.



I have to admin, i am confused as to why no one else has commented on any of this, I doubt i just got a bad unit here smile.gif
post #1057 of 3345
Tothjm,

Sounds like you are very unhappy with your Sony, can you still
return it and pick up an Epson?
post #1058 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by TedO View Post

Tothjm,

Sounds like you are very unhappy with your Sony, can you still
return it and pick up an Epson?

I am actually keeping it.

I watch about 95% 2D and for that it works GREAT....

I also was able to DRASTICALLY reduce ghosting by turning the 3d depth to the default of 0 instead of 2, and i can leave glasses brightness on 3 or MAX... for HSBS content i can manage that, and for frame packed that i was able to test with a 3d ISO, it was far better... in the frame packed, if i do glasses on max bright, and depth on 0, there is basically NO Ghosting at all


I was only complaining that for a 4k MSRP costing projector... it should have NO Ghosting like the Epson... and NO Buzz during 3d playback...


But no i am keeping it as the 2d is awesome and 3d is great when there is no ghosting \ watch frame stacked formatting MVC.
post #1059 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by tothjm View Post

I am actually keeping it.

I watch about 95% 2D and for that it works GREAT....

I also was able to DRASTICALLY reduce ghosting by turning the 3d depth to the default of 0 instead of 2, and i can leave glasses brightness on 3 or MAX... for HSBS content i can manage that, and for frame packed that i was able to test with a 3d ISO, it was far better... in the frame packed, if i do glasses on max bright, and depth on 0, there is basically NO Ghosting at all


I was only complaining that for a 4k MSRP costing projector... it should have NO Ghosting like the Epson... and NO Buzz during 3d playback...


But no i am keeping it as the 2d is awesome and 3d is great when there is no ghosting \ watch frame stacked formatting MVC.

can you tell me why its better than epson @2D images?
post #1060 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by tothjm View Post

I am actually keeping it.

I watch about 95% 2D and for that it works GREAT....

I also was able to DRASTICALLY reduce ghosting by turning the 3d depth to the default of 0 instead of 2, and i can leave glasses brightness on 3 or MAX... for HSBS content i can manage that, and for frame packed that i was able to test with a 3d ISO, it was far better... in the frame packed, if i do glasses on max bright, and depth on 0, there is basically NO Ghosting at all


I was only complaining that for a 4k MSRP costing projector... it should have NO Ghosting like the Epson... and NO Buzz during 3d playback...


But no i am keeping it as the 2d is awesome and 3d is great when there is no ghosting \ watch frame stacked formatting MVC.

I don't think the Epson has NO ghosting. And, to be fair, the 3D default is 0, not 2; one should *never* touch the 3D depth settings. If it were up to me, I wouldn't even include the option in the menu.

As for you thinking the images don't change fast enough in 3D on the Sony... it's really hard to decouple that from flicker due to lamp modulation. I believe the reason the Epson has less ghosting in 3D, if any, is because of the 480Hz processing to reduce ghosting/flicker, outlined here in the section entitled: "4.2 480Hz technology for the reduction of crosstalk / ghosting": http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/Panasonic_PTAT5000/PT-AT5000_Test-Final.htm
post #1061 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by cemo62 View Post

can you tell me why its better than epson @2D images?

The following is just my opinion though i feel others would agree that have seen both for extended periods of time

Sony has higher preceived contrast making it appear as a brighter picture though the Epson has the most lumens in bright mode, Sony wins in best color mode lumens

the RC engine is really great and easlly improved the overall picture vs super resolution on the Epson not really doing too much.

SXRD vs LCD Projector, with the Epson LCD, you can see the pixel structure if you go up to the screen and clear black between each pixel. The Sony SXRD has no space between pixles which greatly improves the overall image quality.

If you go to the screen you can see a type of structure but again, no space between... closer to DLP but not the same


again this is just my personal opinion having seen both in a home environment

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

I don't think the Epson has NO ghosting. And, to be fair, the 3D default is 0, not 2; one should *never* touch the 3D depth settings. If it were up to me, I wouldn't even include the option in the menu.

As for you thinking the images don't change fast enough in 3D on the Sony... it's really hard to decouple that from flicker due to lamp modulation. I believe the reason the Epson has less ghosting in 3D, if any, is because of the 480Hz processing to reduce ghosting/flicker, outlined here in the section entitled: "4.2 480Hz technology for the reduction of crosstalk / ghosting": http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/Panasonic_PTAT5000/PT-AT5000_Test-Final.htm

Sounding like a Sony Fan boy there buddy easy smile.gif

to comment on the Epson Ghosting, i say again... I have paused images, gone up to a 110in picture in 3d, and when you REALLY LOOK HARD for ghosting, it is there, but even what is there is VERY FAINT. The sony you have to try to not see it with certain settings like depth on 2 instead of 0.

Having said that, you can turn the Epson to ANY DEPTH, i believe it goes to + 10, and it DOES NOT CHANGE the Ghosting.. still basically none unless you REALLLY look hard for it. And who says no one should touch the depth on the Sony? I think like the Epson, if they give you the choice, you should be able to change it without making the picture unwatchable, ( again for an MSRP $4000 projector )

i agree with you on the 480mhz panels and im sure that is why the Ghosting is basically non existent... if only the sony could have gotten that in there as well or something equally as useful for reducing crosstalk\ghosting smile.gif

I am just giving impressions based on what i saw, i am no advocate for Epson OR Sony... I just happen to have bought the Sony and was disappointed in the amount of Ghosting that i am seeing here.

I mean as i said in a previous post...when I close one eye, i can SEE Permanent Ghosting...that doesnt seem right to me? Maybe i got lucky with a faulty unit, but i have no idea... im curious if anyone else here can pause in 3d on a scene with ghosting, and tell me if one eye can see its frame, AND the permanent ghosting as well ( note that the other eye sees its frame and NO ghosting, its always just 1 eye )
post #1062 of 3345
I have been following this thread about ghosting on the Sony when the the 3d is in 720p ant 60 hz , as I do like to do some 3d gaming with the Sony PS3 , so i have read where it is almost impossible to do 720p 3D because of ghosting , then Tothjm mention that if he turn down 3d depth to 0 and put the glasses on max brightness the ghosting issue goes away . I am doing all my 720 p 3d from my PS3 and not a computer , so i just want to make sure that i have followed the thread correctly , that with those settings tothjm was using ghosting is not a problem when using the Ps3 in 3d for gaming for such games as GT5 . AS I was just about to buy a 50es when I came across this issue of ghosting when gaming.
post #1063 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPC1 View Post

I have been following this thread about ghosting on the Sony when the the 3d is in 720p ant 60 hz , as I do like to do some 3d gaming with the Sony PS3 , so i have read where it is almost impossible to do 720p 3D because of ghosting , then Tothjm mention that if he turn down 3d depth to 0 and put the glasses on max brightness the ghosting issue goes away . I am doing all my 720 p 3d from my PS3 and not a computer , so i just want to make sure that i have followed the thread correctly , that with those settings tothjm was using ghosting is not a problem when using the Ps3 in 3d for gaming for such games as GT5 . AS I was just about to buy a 50es when I came across this issue of ghosting when gaming.

GPC,

I do own a ps3 but to be honest i have not tried and 720 3d gaming as i do not own and ps3 games that i can test this out with for you =\

maybe they would let you test this in the store before you buy, or check what the return policy is, buy it, try it out, if it is trash, just return it.

I have another thread open where someone commented about how they cannot play crysis 2 or uncharted 3 because the ghosting is just out of control.... i cant say if they tried the settings i had of 0 depth, and 3 or max on glasses brightness.

Maybe someone can comment on that...
post #1064 of 3345
Thanks for the reply , yes as of yet i have not been able to find a sony dealer that has one up and running as a demo close by , the nearest one is about a 3 hour drive away. But i think it will be worth the drive just to see it myself , or i might just cheap out and go with the Benq 1070 as it has a great picture and no ghosting 3d for the price.
post #1065 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by tothjm View Post

Sony has higher preceived contrast making it appear as a brighter picture though the Epson has the most lumens in bright mode, Sony wins in best color mode lumens

Also add to that: Check out the reviews of CALIBRATED units. Once properly calibrated, the Epson loses a lot of its brightness, while the Sony keeps most of it. Driven all out with no regard to accurate gray scale and color, the Epson is brighter. Driven all out fully calibrated the Sony is brighter. I don't have both to compare personally, but that is what I am seeing consistently so far in the reviews.

The Sony also has much less lag than the Epson which makes it better for gaming. This alone caused me to drop the Epson from my list early on.
post #1066 of 3345
What are your guys thoughts on running this projector with a lower end screen like the Elite screens line?
Typically these screens are paired with the lower end Epson's (3020) but i have a buddy of mine using it with his 5010 with pretty good results. I have a low ambient light room and was looking at a 120 or 135 inch with a 1.1 gain. You guys think its a big deal to pair this 2k projector with a lower end screen?
post #1067 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPC1 View Post

Thanks for the reply , yes as of yet i have not been able to find a sony dealer that has one up and running as a demo close by , the nearest one is about a 3 hour drive away. But i think it will be worth the drive just to see it myself , or i might just cheap out and go with the Benq 1070 as it has a great picture and no ghosting 3d for the price.

The Benq is DLP. If ghost free 3d is a priority, DLP is the best way to get it right now for a reasonable price. I finally sat through a 3d movie on the Sony on Friday night. Ghosting was definitely there, and I probably need to pick up an external emitter at some point because I was getting occasional loss of sync. I can also confirm that changing the depth setting away from 0 made the ghosting pretty much constant for me.
post #1068 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartMan01 View Post

Also add to that: Check out the reviews of CALIBRATED units. Once properly calibrated, the Epson loses a lot of its brightness, while the Sony keeps most of it. Driven all out with no regard to accurate gray scale and color, the Epson is brighter. Driven all out fully calibrated the Sony is brighter. I don't have both to compare personally, but that is what I am seeing consistently so far in the reviews.

The Sony also has much less lag than the Epson which makes it better for gaming. This alone caused me to drop the Epson from my list early on.


I have seen both setup next to eachother and can further confirm again lol. The sony and its contrast allows you to see it much better in its best mode than the Epson ( with less calibrated lumens as well, but also compared to the bright tv mode )


as for the lag, i have not tested on the sony yet, but the Epson does get just slightly annoying with lag... tried to play killzone 2 on ps3, you can tell that it is about 50ms or so, for casual gaming no big deal at all, but for online FPS, you may want to avoid this...
post #1069 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by iversonbiatch View Post

What are your guys thoughts on running this projector with a lower end screen like the Elite screens line?
Typically these screens are paired with the lower end Epson's (3020) but i have a buddy of mine using it with his 5010 with pretty good results. I have a low ambient light room and was looking at a 120 or 135 inch with a 1.1 gain. You guys think its a big deal to pair this 2k projector with a lower end screen?

right now i am running my projector off a white wall and it still looks GREAT...so i think with ANY screen you are good to go, to be honest... and that is in a room with some ambient light and fullly dark at night...
post #1070 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartMan01 View Post

The Benq is DLP. If ghost free 3d is a priority, DLP is the best way to get it right now for a reasonable price. I finally sat through a 3d movie on the Sony on Friday night. Ghosting was definitely there, and I probably need to pick up an external emitter at some point because I was getting occasional loss of sync. I can also confirm that changing the depth setting away from 0 made the ghosting pretty much constant for me.


bart,

that 3d movie you watched, do you know if it was HSBS or full frame packed?
post #1071 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by tothjm View Post

I have seen both setup next to eachother and can further confirm again lol. The sony and its contrast allows you to see it much better in its best mode than the Epson ( with less calibrated lumens as well, but also compared to the bright tv mode )


as for the lag, i have not tested on the sony yet, but the Epson does get just slightly annoying with lag... tried to play killzone 2 on ps3, you can tell that it is about 50ms or so, for casual gaming no big deal at all, but for online FPS, you may want to avoid this...

what is a best mode? is it like a mode cinema 1 natural sports etc?
post #1072 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by tothjm View Post

bart,

that 3d movie you watched, do you know if it was HSBS or full frame packed?

Avengers - frame packed. I typically find 3d more annoying (glasses bothering me, fisher price view master effect) than it adds to the experience for me, and my current receiver doesn't pass through 3d so I have to swap HDMI cables around just to get it to work. I don't really plan on watching much 3d so a little ghosting isn't the end of the world for me.
post #1073 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by cemo62 View Post

what is a best mode? is it like a mode cinema 1 natural sports etc?

best mode just means calibrated... so in its best accurate color mode, after professional calibration, the sony measures higher lumen output than the Epson ( as well as its contrast already being better )
post #1074 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by iversonbiatch View Post

What are your guys thoughts on running this projector with a lower end screen like the Elite screens line?
Typically these screens are paired with the lower end Epson's (3020) but i have a buddy of mine using it with his 5010 with pretty good results. I have a low ambient light room and was looking at a 120 or 135 inch with a 1.1 gain. You guys think its a big deal to pair this 2k projector with a lower end screen?

I currently have the Elite Screen Cinewhite 106inch screen. For a cheap screen this thing is pretty good. During the day in my room its not to bad. I have stray light coming in the room from downstairs (projector is in an open "game room") but I do have blackout shades. I read about 3 foot candles in that room during the day. At night time my room is pretty much pitch black and it looks great. Now I have a white ceiling so when I am watching bright scenes the room lights up a lot.

I would say go for the Elite screen if you have controlled lighting in the room. If you have a white ceiling you may get a little annoyed.
post #1075 of 3345
I had one quick question to everyone in here. Is it normal for the "Film Projection" mode to cause flickering? I only notice it on bright areas of the screen but its is annoying. When I first got the projector installed I was worried that I had a bad unit, the flickering was driving me crazy. I found the Film Projection option and turned it off which corrected the issue.
post #1076 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by natas777 View Post

I had one quick question to everyone in here. Is it normal for the "Film Projection" mode to cause flickering? I only notice it on bright areas of the screen but its is annoying. When I first got the projector installed I was worried that I had a bad unit, the flickering was driving me crazy. I found the Film Projection option and turned it off which corrected the issue.

in the reviews i have read, yes that will cause flicker, but i was ALSO told that turning that on MIGHT help with ghosting in any 1080p\24p material... i have not tested that theory yet.


but you do not have a bad unit in that regard.
post #1077 of 3345
Cool. Maybe its me being to sensitive. All i know is that it drives me crazy! Past that I love this projector.
post #1078 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by natas777 View Post

Cool. Maybe its me being to sensitive. All i know is that it drives me crazy! Past that I love this projector.

why not just turn it off, what is the problem ?
post #1079 of 3345
Has anybody tried the playstation brand 3d glasses with the hw50es? I ordered a pair for $20 off best buy the other day, but still don't have an emitter so I won't be able to try them out for awhile. Reviews are positive so I'm hopeful. However I wanted to see if anybody else had already tried these on this specific projector and what their performance is.

Link:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sony+-+3D+GLASSES/2904117.p?id=1218459141544&skuId=2904117&st=sony%203d%20glasses&cp=1&lp=1
post #1080 of 3345

I haven't tried them myself but a few posts ago I did mention that Sony CS is actually recommending these to HW50ES owners as a "budget" alternative and there were a few responses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post

Has anyone tried the PS3 glasses with their HW50?  When I was on the phone with Sony ES support to get my external emitter, I asked them if these glasses would work.  He said they'd been instructed to offer these as a "lower cost" solution to the glasses shipping with the HW50's.  Just curious if anyone has any experience with them yet?  They're only $20 on Amazon atm.

 

http://www.amazon.com/PlayStation-3-3D-Glasses/dp/B00562O8U0

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigpimpin View Post

Everyone in my family prefers the PS3 glasses over the ones that came with the projector. They seem to have better range and don't lose sync as often. I'm happy with them, especially for the price.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjsbuyer View Post


I have a few pairs of them. They work fine. They are definitely an inexpensive alternative to most others. Not the most comfortable, but neither are the Sony's that come with it.
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