Cool. Maybe its me being to sensitive. All i know is that it drives me crazy! Past that I love this projector.
post #1081 of 1919
1/21/13 at 8:40am
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › Official Sony VPL-HW50ES Owners Thread
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Official Sony VPL-HW50ES Owners Thread - Page 37
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post #1082 of 1919
1/21/13 at 10:10am
post #1083 of 1919
1/21/13 at 10:35am
- daWill
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Has anybody tried the playstation brand 3d glasses with the hw50es? I ordered a pair for $20 off best buy the other day, but still don't have an emitter so I won't be able to try them out for awhile. Reviews are positive so I'm hopeful. However I wanted to see if anybody else had already tried these on this specific projector and what their performance is.
Link:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sony+-+3D+GLASSES/2904117.p?id=1218459141544&skuId=2904117&st=sony%203d%20glasses&cp=1&lp=1
Link:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sony+-+3D+GLASSES/2904117.p?id=1218459141544&skuId=2904117&st=sony%203d%20glasses&cp=1&lp=1
post #1084 of 1919
1/21/13 at 12:35pm
I haven't tried them myself but a few posts ago I did mention that Sony CS is actually recommending these to HW50ES owners as a "budget" alternative and there were a few responses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkasanic 
Has anyone tried the PS3 glasses with their HW50? When I was on the phone with Sony ES support to get my external emitter, I asked them if these glasses would work. He said they'd been instructed to offer these as a "lower cost" solution to the glasses shipping with the HW50's. Just curious if anyone has any experience with them yet? They're only $20 on Amazon atm.
http://www.amazon.com/PlayStation-3-3D-Glasses/dp/B00562O8U0
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpimpin
Everyone in my family prefers the PS3 glasses over the ones that came with the projector. They seem to have better range and don't lose sync as often. I'm happy with them, especially for the price.
Everyone in my family prefers the PS3 glasses over the ones that came with the projector. They seem to have better range and don't lose sync as often. I'm happy with them, especially for the price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjsbuyer
I have a few pairs of them. They work fine. They are definitely an inexpensive alternative to most others. Not the most comfortable, but neither are the Sony's that come with it.
I have a few pairs of them. They work fine. They are definitely an inexpensive alternative to most others. Not the most comfortable, but neither are the Sony's that come with it.
post #1085 of 1919
1/21/13 at 12:54pm
- daWill
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post #1086 of 1919
1/21/13 at 1:15pm
- dan webster
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post #1087 of 1919
1/21/13 at 1:17pm
- daWill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan webster
I going to take a ride to best buy and get 2 pairs of the playstation glasses to try them out tonight. At $20 they sound like a steal.
I going to take a ride to best buy and get 2 pairs of the playstation glasses to try them out tonight. At $20 they sound like a steal.
Check stock first.. There is only 1 best buy in austin that had them when I ordered. I'm assuming other cities are similar.
post #1088 of 1919
1/21/13 at 1:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by natas777
I had one quick question to everyone in here. Is it normal for the "Film Projection" mode to cause flickering? I only notice it on bright areas of the screen but its is annoying. When I first got the projector installed I was worried that I had a bad unit, the flickering was driving me crazy. I found the Film Projection option and turned it off which corrected the issue.
I had one quick question to everyone in here. Is it normal for the "Film Projection" mode to cause flickering? I only notice it on bright areas of the screen but its is annoying. When I first got the projector installed I was worried that I had a bad unit, the flickering was driving me crazy. I found the Film Projection option and turned it off which corrected the issue.
Yes, Film Projection enables Dark Frame Insertion (DFI) which introduces and incredible amount of flicker for 24p content. For 60p content, the flicker is very subtle & the picture is completely watchable, even for someone very sensitive to flicker such as myself.
The reason Dark Frame Insertion is sometimes desirable is that it helps with motion blur due to 'sample & hold effect' that LCDs typically have (Google for a good explanation). Furthermore, by forcing the liquid crystal arrays to reset to the position for black in between every frame of content, you reduce any image persistence (kind of like ghosting-- material from the previous frame still on screen during the subsequent frame b/c the liquid crystals can't respond fast enough). That also helps with motion blur.
For 60p content, I'm assuming DFI introduces a black frame in between each frame (i.e. playing the 60Hz content back at 120Hz, with every other frame being black). With 24p content, perhaps it's also doing a similar thing: that is, a simple frame-doubling, but inserting a dark frame in between each content frame. In other words it'd be running at 48Hz, but there'd still be 24 dark frames per second, so that's a 24Hz flicker. That might be unwatchable so what it may be doing is frame-quadrupling (96Hz processing):
1-D-1-D-2-D-2-D-3-D-3-D-4-D-4-D...
In which case we'd see a 48Hz flicker... which is still offensive. My guess is that's what's going on with the Sony projector, as 24Hz flicker would be completely unwatchable.
If you disable 24p playback on your Blu-Ray player, and have the player do 3:2 pulldown of 24p content to 60p, then Film Projection doesn't introduce much flicker. But then you introduce motion judder.
I feel like the flicker could be solved by Sony if they had a 144Hz processing mode, which'd introduce 72Hz flicker with 24p content, which should be watchable. In other words, for the first 1/24th of a second, you'd have:
1-D-1-D-1-D (where '1' is the first frame of content)
For the second 1/24th of a second you'd have:
2-D-2-D-2-D (where '2' is the second frame of content).
In other words, each original frame of the 24p Blu-Ray content is repeated 3 times, with 3 dark frames in between.
I don't see what's stopping them from introducing circuitry/algorithms to do that. DFI really helps with motion blur, IMHO, but is unusable with 24p Blu-Ray movies. What a shame.
post #1089 of 1919
1/21/13 at 1:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tothjm
I have another thread open where someone commented about how they cannot play crysis 2 or uncharted 3 because the ghosting is just out of control.... i cant say if they tried the settings i had of 0 depth, and 3 or max on glasses brightness.
Maybe someone can comment on that...
I have another thread open where someone commented about how they cannot play crysis 2 or uncharted 3 because the ghosting is just out of control.... i cant say if they tried the settings i had of 0 depth, and 3 or max on glasses brightness.
Maybe someone can comment on that...
Yeah that was me. All 3D games I own for the PS3 are unplayable on the HW50ES b/c of ghosting.
During the movie/cut-scenes of Uncharted 3, the ghosting gets better if I change the depth setting sometimes. In the game, it's best at depth of 0 (default). Of course, depth should always be set to 0 (explained in detail elsewhere), unless I guess your eye-spacing is vastly different from what the content was optimized for?
I don't know why there's a difference between the cut-scenes & the game content in terms of what depth setting looks best (again, 0 should always look best/optimized).
I just gave up b/c it was unplayable. Perhaps someone with a PC could enable 24Hz mode & load up a 3D game at 24Hz to see if that works better. The chances that someone has this setup are slim, though :-P
post #1090 of 1919
1/21/13 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tothjm
Sounding like a Sony Fan boy there buddy easy
to comment on the Epson Ghosting, i say again... I have paused images, gone up to a 110in picture in 3d, and when you REALLY LOOK HARD for ghosting, it is there, but even what is there is VERY FAINT. The sony you have to try to not see it with certain settings like depth on 2 instead of 0.
Having said that, you can turn the Epson to ANY DEPTH, i believe it goes to + 10, and it DOES NOT CHANGE the Ghosting.. still basically none unless you REALLLY look hard for it. And who says no one should touch the depth on the Sony? I think like the Epson, if they give you the choice, you should be able to change it without making the picture unwatchable, ( again for an MSRP $4000 projector )
Sounding like a Sony Fan boy there buddy easy
to comment on the Epson Ghosting, i say again... I have paused images, gone up to a 110in picture in 3d, and when you REALLY LOOK HARD for ghosting, it is there, but even what is there is VERY FAINT. The sony you have to try to not see it with certain settings like depth on 2 instead of 0.
Having said that, you can turn the Epson to ANY DEPTH, i believe it goes to + 10, and it DOES NOT CHANGE the Ghosting.. still basically none unless you REALLLY look hard for it. And who says no one should touch the depth on the Sony? I think like the Epson, if they give you the choice, you should be able to change it without making the picture unwatchable, ( again for an MSRP $4000 projector )
I sound like a Sony fanboy b/c I pointed out that you dialed in an incorrect setting and then complained about the picture? The reason you shouldn't use any other depth setting is b/c the L/R images have already been optimized during film production. When you change the depth setting, you're literally changing the offset of the L/R images... which may help ghosting for one element, but add ghosting for another element. The studio should've already optimized the content of the L/R images. I guess perhaps if your eye-eye separation were vastly different than the average, one may benefit from a slight offset of the L/R images... but barring that...
Interesting though that you note the Epson doesn't react poorly to changing the depth setting. If it's offsetting the L/R images in relation to one another, it *has* to affect some ghosting positively while other ghosting negatively (just based on first principles if you think about it). So that confuses me.
It's pretty lame that Sony's trying to push the '3D World' forward, especially with the PS3, but their own projector is completely useless in this regard. While apparently the Epson isn't...
post #1091 of 1919
1/21/13 at 2:10pm
- HoustonHoyaFan
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Quote:
IIRC this is exactly what how DFI on the Sony is implemented. It is very similar to a film projector (remember those) running at 24p where the aperture is opened twice per frame.Originally Posted by sarangiman
In other words it'd be running at 48Hz, but there'd still be 24 dark frames per second, so that's a 24Hz flicker. That might be unwatchable so what it may be doing is frame-quadrupling (96Hz processing):
1-D-1-D-2-D-2-D-3-D-3-D-4-D-4-D...
In which case we'd see a 48Hz flicker... which is still offensive. My guess is that's what's going on with the Sony projector, as 24Hz flicker would be completely unwatchable.
In other words it'd be running at 48Hz, but there'd still be 24 dark frames per second, so that's a 24Hz flicker. That might be unwatchable so what it may be doing is frame-quadrupling (96Hz processing):
1-D-1-D-2-D-2-D-3-D-3-D-4-D-4-D...
In which case we'd see a 48Hz flicker... which is still offensive. My guess is that's what's going on with the Sony projector, as 24Hz flicker would be completely unwatchable.
Yes some patrons were bothered by the flicker of a standard movie projector in movie theaters. On the other hand some movie buffs like DFI because of the sharper motion handling and the nostalgic film projector look.
post #1092 of 1919
1/21/13 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan
IIRC this is exactly what how DFI on the Sony is implemented. It is very similar to a film projector (remember those) running at 24p where the aperture is opened twice per frame.
Yes some patrons were bothered by the flicker of a standard movie projector in movie theaters. On the other hand some movie buffs like DFI because of the sharper motion handling and the nostalgic film projector look.
IIRC this is exactly what how DFI on the Sony is implemented. It is very similar to a film projector (remember those) running at 24p where the aperture is opened twice per frame.
Yes some patrons were bothered by the flicker of a standard movie projector in movie theaters. On the other hand some movie buffs like DFI because of the sharper motion handling and the nostalgic film projector look.
Ok, thanks.
Just wish they frame tripled & added dark frames to make it 72Hz flicker. 48Hz flicker is annoying (I certainly don't miss it, and I doubt many others do). The motion handling is definitely sharper with DFI on... I've done numerous A/B comparisons.
There shouldn't be any technical limitation to doing this. Unless their electronics only work at certain frequencies, in which case they'd have to be changed.
post #1093 of 1919
1/21/13 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarangiman
I sound like a Sony fanboy b/c I pointed out that you dialed in an incorrect setting and then complained about the picture? The reason you shouldn't use any other depth setting is b/c the L/R images have already been optimized during film production. When you change the depth setting, you're literally changing the offset of the L/R images... which may help ghosting for one element, but add ghosting for another element. The studio should've already optimized the content of the L/R images. I guess perhaps if your eye-eye separation were vastly different than the average, one may benefit from a slight offset of the L/R images... but barring that...
Interesting though that you note the Epson doesn't react poorly to changing the depth setting. If it's offsetting the L/R images in relation to one another, it *has* to affect some ghosting positively while other ghosting negatively (just based on first principles if you think about it). So that confuses me.
It's pretty lame that Sony's trying to push the '3D World' forward, especially with the PS3, but their own projector is completely useless in this regard. While apparently the Epson isn't...
I sound like a Sony fanboy b/c I pointed out that you dialed in an incorrect setting and then complained about the picture? The reason you shouldn't use any other depth setting is b/c the L/R images have already been optimized during film production. When you change the depth setting, you're literally changing the offset of the L/R images... which may help ghosting for one element, but add ghosting for another element. The studio should've already optimized the content of the L/R images. I guess perhaps if your eye-eye separation were vastly different than the average, one may benefit from a slight offset of the L/R images... but barring that...
Interesting though that you note the Epson doesn't react poorly to changing the depth setting. If it's offsetting the L/R images in relation to one another, it *has* to affect some ghosting positively while other ghosting negatively (just based on first principles if you think about it). So that confuses me.
It's pretty lame that Sony's trying to push the '3D World' forward, especially with the PS3, but their own projector is completely useless in this regard. While apparently the Epson isn't...
I agree with you on the sony ownign the ps3 and projector, yet the two dont play nice together in 3d lol... is this something you think they can fix in an update? Or this is hardware related?
oddly neough, you can put the Epson all the way up to +10 and while this hurts the hell out of your brain to look at, Ghosting was not affected in anyway... still extremely minimal to non existant\faint
sometimes i can handle the +1 on the Sony for depth, but then as you said, you still get ghosting but i feel it adds a slightly more emersive 3d view than leaving it at 0, though i get your point about the studio setting. Just have to play with it and see what you are willing to deal with. leaving it at 0 will certainly remove all of it but extreme situations in the frame packed content.
so firmware update for this or what?
post #1094 of 1919
1/21/13 at 5:54pm
Not sure what I am suppose to be seeing but I have a PS3 and the HW 5OES and it looks great in 3D. Just saw Tin Tin animated movie. Will be watching Avengers soon. I'm running this thru a Marantz 8801. Everything in 3D looks great after I got the external emitter to get rid of the synch issues. 2D is outstanding. This is coming from an Epson 1080 UB. It only had about 1200 hours on it (800 on the bulb). Couldn't believe the improvement.
I have a Oppo BDP103 on order and will compare it to the PS 3 when I get it tomorrow.
I have a Oppo BDP103 on order and will compare it to the PS 3 when I get it tomorrow.
post #1095 of 1919
1/21/13 at 7:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by satfam
Not sure what I am suppose to be seeing but I have a PS3 and the HW 5OES and it looks great in 3D. Just saw Tin Tin animated movie. Will be watching Avengers soon. I'm running this thru a Marantz 8801. Everything in 3D looks great after I got the external emitter to get rid of the synch issues. 2D is outstanding. This is coming from an Epson 1080 UB. It only had about 1200 hours on it (800 on the bulb). Couldn't believe the improvement.
I have a Oppo BDP103 on order and will compare it to the PS 3 when I get it tomorrow.
Not sure what I am suppose to be seeing but I have a PS3 and the HW 5OES and it looks great in 3D. Just saw Tin Tin animated movie. Will be watching Avengers soon. I'm running this thru a Marantz 8801. Everything in 3D looks great after I got the external emitter to get rid of the synch issues. 2D is outstanding. This is coming from an Epson 1080 UB. It only had about 1200 hours on it (800 on the bulb). Couldn't believe the improvement.
I have a Oppo BDP103 on order and will compare it to the PS 3 when I get it tomorrow.
how is the ghosting and what type of 3d are you watching... 3d ISO \ 3D blue ray, or a HSBS file ?
post #1096 of 1919
1/21/13 at 10:07pm
Hi everybody. Today I made my choice. In my short list were BenQ w1070, Epson TW8100/5020, Sony hw50 and Panny AE8k. I decided to go with Sony hw50es.
My screen is ~15 foot wide MW, I'm planning to use it for 2d only. I'm sure everybody will agree that 3D will be unwatchably dim on it. So I'm planning to buy 150-160" 16/9 screen with gain 1.4 for 3D, and hope it will be OK(?)
My throw distance is ~20 foot, and my question is will I have problems with synch? or should I buy an external emitter?
My screen is ~15 foot wide MW, I'm planning to use it for 2d only. I'm sure everybody will agree that 3D will be unwatchably dim on it. So I'm planning to buy 150-160" 16/9 screen with gain 1.4 for 3D, and hope it will be OK(?)
My throw distance is ~20 foot, and my question is will I have problems with synch? or should I buy an external emitter?
post #1097 of 1919
1/21/13 at 10:28pm
post #1098 of 1919
1/21/13 at 10:45pm
- Seegs108
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post #1099 of 1919
1/21/13 at 10:56pm
post #1100 of 1919
1/21/13 at 11:21pm
- BartMan01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yusuf.0088
will I have problems with synch? or should I buy an external emitter?
will I have problems with synch? or should I buy an external emitter?
Depends. If you will save $$ getting the emitter at the same time go ahead and get it. If not, wait to see if you do have problems. I would guess that yours would be a borderline case and a lot will depend on where/how the projector is mounted and the IR path between the built in emitter and the glasses. Mine is mounted ~16 feet back but only has a 3" drop tube so it is very close to the ceiling. I have occasional sync loss in my limited testing.
post #1101 of 1919
1/22/13 at 1:02am
Quote:
Well, projector will be on the shelf 6.2 meters from the screen, on 1.3 meters height from floor. Just a bit above my head.Originally Posted by BartMan01
Depends. If you will save $$ getting the emitter at the same time go ahead and get it. If not, wait to see if you do have problems. I would guess that yours would be a borderline case and a lot will depend on where/how the projector is mounted and the IR path between the built in emitter and the glasses. Mine is mounted ~16 feet back but only has a 3" drop tube so it is very close to the ceiling. I have occasional sync loss in my limited testing.
Depends. If you will save $$ getting the emitter at the same time go ahead and get it. If not, wait to see if you do have problems. I would guess that yours would be a borderline case and a lot will depend on where/how the projector is mounted and the IR path between the built in emitter and the glasses. Mine is mounted ~16 feet back but only has a 3" drop tube so it is very close to the ceiling. I have occasional sync loss in my limited testing.
Thanks for advice, I'll wait and see if it has any problem first.
post #1102 of 1919
1/22/13 at 1:10am
post #1103 of 1919
1/22/13 at 3:22am
I had my HW50 installed in my new home theater a couple weeks ago. Love the 2D quality and the projector is extremely quiet in that mode.
However, I cannot get 3D to work at all. It will not seem to sync with either the included Sony glasses or th XPand universal glasses i bought. I have tried it with my Oppo 103 (Despicable Me) and with the XBox 360 (Arkham City).
I hear the emitter buzz, so I know it is getting the 3D signal, but no sync. I have tried moving around. The projector is ceiling mounted about 15 feet from the screen and the seating is about 12 feet from the screen. But even moving around the room I get no sync.
Thoughts or ideas?
However, I cannot get 3D to work at all. It will not seem to sync with either the included Sony glasses or th XPand universal glasses i bought. I have tried it with my Oppo 103 (Despicable Me) and with the XBox 360 (Arkham City).
I hear the emitter buzz, so I know it is getting the 3D signal, but no sync. I have tried moving around. The projector is ceiling mounted about 15 feet from the screen and the seating is about 12 feet from the screen. But even moving around the room I get no sync.
Thoughts or ideas?
post #1104 of 1919
1/22/13 at 5:37am
- daWill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lv2pitch
I had my HW50 installed in my new home theater a couple weeks ago. Love the 2D quality and the projector is extremely quiet in that mode.
However, I cannot get 3D to work at all. It will not seem to sync with either the included Sony glasses or th XPand universal glasses i bought. I have tried it with my Oppo 103 (Despicable Me) and with the XBox 360 (Arkham City).
I hear the emitter buzz, so I know it is getting the 3D signal, but no sync. I have tried moving around. The projector is ceiling mounted about 15 feet from the screen and the seating is about 12 feet from the screen. But even moving around the room I get no sync.
Thoughts or ideas?
I had my HW50 installed in my new home theater a couple weeks ago. Love the 2D quality and the projector is extremely quiet in that mode.
However, I cannot get 3D to work at all. It will not seem to sync with either the included Sony glasses or th XPand universal glasses i bought. I have tried it with my Oppo 103 (Despicable Me) and with the XBox 360 (Arkham City).
I hear the emitter buzz, so I know it is getting the 3D signal, but no sync. I have tried moving around. The projector is ceiling mounted about 15 feet from the screen and the seating is about 12 feet from the screen. But even moving around the room I get no sync.
Thoughts or ideas?
Buy an external emitter. Good luck though, they are back ordered everywhere because it's the same thing everybody else is having to do. I'm still waiting on mine.
You can probably get the glasses to sync if you walk close to your screen and stay standing. At least that's been my experience.
post #1105 of 1919
1/22/13 at 6:10am
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1/22/13 at 7:31am
- BartMan01
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Anyone used Image Director (Sony's Gamma adjustment software) with the HW50 yet? Any tips/suggestions? I have the 3.1 downloaded and a USB to RS232 cable on the way. I have a grey screen and right now my Gamma is almost a straight line from 1.8 at black to 2.4 at white so I want to try to flatten it out at 2.2 all the way across.
post #1107 of 1919
1/22/13 at 7:48am
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post #1108 of 1919
1/22/13 at 8:22am
- d.j.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarangiman
Yes, Film Projection enables Dark Frame Insertion (DFI) which introduces and incredible amount of flicker for 24p content. For 60p content, the flicker is very subtle & the picture is completely watchable, even for someone very sensitive to flicker such as myself.
The reason Dark Frame Insertion is sometimes desirable is that it helps with motion blur due to 'sample & hold effect' that LCDs typically have (Google for a good explanation). Furthermore, by forcing the liquid crystal arrays to reset to the position for black in between every frame of content, you reduce any image persistence (kind of like ghosting-- material from the previous frame still on screen during the subsequent frame b/c the liquid crystals can't respond fast enough). That also helps with motion blur.
For 60p content, I'm assuming DFI introduces a black frame in between each frame (i.e. playing the 60Hz content back at 120Hz, with every other frame being black). With 24p content, perhaps it's also doing a similar thing: that is, a simple frame-doubling, but inserting a dark frame in between each content frame. In other words it'd be running at 48Hz, but there'd still be 24 dark frames per second, so that's a 24Hz flicker. That might be unwatchable so what it may be doing is frame-quadrupling (96Hz processing):
1-D-1-D-2-D-2-D-3-D-3-D-4-D-4-D...
In which case we'd see a 48Hz flicker... which is still offensive. My guess is that's what's going on with the Sony projector, as 24Hz flicker would be completely unwatchable.
If you disable 24p playback on your Blu-Ray player, and have the player do 3:2 pulldown of 24p content to 60p, then Film Projection doesn't introduce much flicker. But then you introduce motion judder.
I feel like the flicker could be solved by Sony if they had a 144Hz processing mode, which'd introduce 72Hz flicker with 24p content, which should be watchable. In other words, for the first 1/24th of a second, you'd have:
1-D-1-D-1-D (where '1' is the first frame of content)
For the second 1/24th of a second you'd have:
2-D-2-D-2-D (where '2' is the second frame of content).
In other words, each original frame of the 24p Blu-Ray content is repeated 3 times, with 3 dark frames in between.
I don't see what's stopping them from introducing circuitry/algorithms to do that. DFI really helps with motion blur, IMHO, but is unusable with 24p Blu-Ray movies. What a shame.
Yes, Film Projection enables Dark Frame Insertion (DFI) which introduces and incredible amount of flicker for 24p content. For 60p content, the flicker is very subtle & the picture is completely watchable, even for someone very sensitive to flicker such as myself.
The reason Dark Frame Insertion is sometimes desirable is that it helps with motion blur due to 'sample & hold effect' that LCDs typically have (Google for a good explanation). Furthermore, by forcing the liquid crystal arrays to reset to the position for black in between every frame of content, you reduce any image persistence (kind of like ghosting-- material from the previous frame still on screen during the subsequent frame b/c the liquid crystals can't respond fast enough). That also helps with motion blur.
For 60p content, I'm assuming DFI introduces a black frame in between each frame (i.e. playing the 60Hz content back at 120Hz, with every other frame being black). With 24p content, perhaps it's also doing a similar thing: that is, a simple frame-doubling, but inserting a dark frame in between each content frame. In other words it'd be running at 48Hz, but there'd still be 24 dark frames per second, so that's a 24Hz flicker. That might be unwatchable so what it may be doing is frame-quadrupling (96Hz processing):
1-D-1-D-2-D-2-D-3-D-3-D-4-D-4-D...
In which case we'd see a 48Hz flicker... which is still offensive. My guess is that's what's going on with the Sony projector, as 24Hz flicker would be completely unwatchable.
If you disable 24p playback on your Blu-Ray player, and have the player do 3:2 pulldown of 24p content to 60p, then Film Projection doesn't introduce much flicker. But then you introduce motion judder.
I feel like the flicker could be solved by Sony if they had a 144Hz processing mode, which'd introduce 72Hz flicker with 24p content, which should be watchable. In other words, for the first 1/24th of a second, you'd have:
1-D-1-D-1-D (where '1' is the first frame of content)
For the second 1/24th of a second you'd have:
2-D-2-D-2-D (where '2' is the second frame of content).
In other words, each original frame of the 24p Blu-Ray content is repeated 3 times, with 3 dark frames in between.
I don't see what's stopping them from introducing circuitry/algorithms to do that. DFI really helps with motion blur, IMHO, but is unusable with 24p Blu-Ray movies. What a shame.
sarangiman
FWIW
The Hw30, HW50,90ES and 95ES all do 48hz flicker with 24P in DFI mode
The DFI in the 1000ES do not flicker in 24P mode
( just lower the light output in generel ) maybe its doing it at 72 hz or 96 hz ?But anyway I know its not a consolation for a HW50 owner
dj
post #1109 of 1919
1/22/13 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lv2pitch
I had my HW50 installed in my new home theater a couple weeks ago. Love the 2D quality and the projector is extremely quiet in that mode.
However, I cannot get 3D to work at all. It will not seem to sync with either the included Sony glasses or th XPand universal glasses i bought. I have tried it with my Oppo 103 (Despicable Me) and with the XBox 360 (Arkham City).
I hear the emitter buzz, so I know it is getting the 3D signal, but no sync. I have tried moving around. The projector is ceiling mounted about 15 feet from the screen and the seating is about 12 feet from the screen. But even moving around the room I get no sync.
Thoughts or ideas?
I had my HW50 installed in my new home theater a couple weeks ago. Love the 2D quality and the projector is extremely quiet in that mode.
However, I cannot get 3D to work at all. It will not seem to sync with either the included Sony glasses or th XPand universal glasses i bought. I have tried it with my Oppo 103 (Despicable Me) and with the XBox 360 (Arkham City).
I hear the emitter buzz, so I know it is getting the 3D signal, but no sync. I have tried moving around. The projector is ceiling mounted about 15 feet from the screen and the seating is about 12 feet from the screen. But even moving around the room I get no sync.
Thoughts or ideas?
I'm totally speculating here but based on the majority of the posts in this thread as well as the shootout thread, I'm guessing most people with IR sync issues are using a ceiling mount. I think the IR sensor location for the built-in emitter is less than ideal in this setup especially if the MLP is below the projector or only slightly in front of it as the chassis of the HW50 seems to interfere with a direct line of sight to the sensor. In this case, you're relying on bouncing the signal off the front wall which is probably hit or miss in most setups. Just my $.02...
post #1110 of 1919
1/22/13 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j.
sarangiman
FWIW
The Hw30, HW50,90ES and 95ES all do 48hz flicker with 24P in DFI mode
The DFI in the 1000ES do not flicker in 24P mode ( just lower the light output in generel ) maybe its doing it at 72 hz or 96 hz ?
But anyway I know its not a consolation for a HW50 owner
dj
sarangiman
FWIW
The Hw30, HW50,90ES and 95ES all do 48hz flicker with 24P in DFI mode
The DFI in the 1000ES do not flicker in 24P mode
( just lower the light output in generel ) maybe its doing it at 72 hz or 96 hz ?But anyway I know its not a consolation for a HW50 owner
dj
Interesting. You're absolutely sure the 1000ES does't flicker in 24p mode with DFI on? If so then Sony already figured out how to optimally implement DFI. But then didn't put it into the lower end projectors? Is that a technical limitation, or oversight?
Proper implementation of DFI could be a major selling point for Sony. It essentially allows the projector to achieve near-DLP motion (to my eye, though someone should quantitate this using a motion resolution benchmark/test).
Speaking of motion resolution benchmarks, why can't I find any information on the FPD benchmark disc? I know some people have it, but they won't share how the heck they got it!
Edited by sarangiman - 1/25/13 at 5:18pm
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