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Official Sony VPL-HW50ES Owners Thread - Page 38

post #1111 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmaowner View Post

Ordered this today should be here by Friday. Anyone wanna share there best mode settings for Reference or should I just use the ones from projector reviews?

to be honest with you, reference mode looks GREAT as is...but mess with it if you want smile.gif
post #1112 of 3345
The UPS man dropped off my Sony HW50 today. Will be my first projector ever, but my room wont be done for a while. For those interested the spare lamp appears to have showed up with the projector.
post #1113 of 3345
So is there still a buzzing issue with the newer HW50ES's in 3D mode?

Also, what is the Sony part number for the IR emitter?
post #1114 of 3345
TMR-PJ2 is the emitter part number
post #1115 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemsonJeeper View Post

So is there still a buzzing issue with the newer HW50ES's in 3D mode?

Also, what is the Sony part number for the IR emitter?

mine is 500 somethn, and still buzzes yes.
post #1116 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by tothjm View Post

mine is 500 somethn, and still buzzes yes.

Is this only if you use the internal IR emitter? Does it go away if you use the external emitter?

How loud is it? Noticeable during a movie? I'm thinking of buying this projector but the buzzing might be a show stopper. The projector will be right behind the main seating area with 9 foot ceilings so it will be pretty close.
post #1117 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemsonJeeper View Post

Is this only if you use the internal IR emitter? Does it go away if you use the external emitter?

How loud is it? Noticeable during a movie? I'm thinking of buying this projector but the buzzing might be a show stopper. The projector will be right behind the main seating area with 9 foot ceilings so it will be pretty close.

My projector is 7' back and 4' up from where I sit and I don't notice it during a movie. I would not let this be a show stopper given that an inexpensive external emitter solves it.
post #1118 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemsonJeeper View Post

Is this only if you use the internal IR emitter? Does it go away if you use the external emitter?

How loud is it? Noticeable during a movie? I'm thinking of buying this projector but the buzzing might be a show stopper. The projector will be right behind the main seating area with 9 foot ceilings so it will be pretty close.
My serial number is in the 800 range and I have been fortunate so far not to notice the buzz even with the volume muted and my projector is mounted almost directly overhead. That is only after watching about 6 hours because we don't watch much 3d. From what others have said. I don't think you'll notice it during a movie. YMMV. Most anyone that has gotten an external emitter recently is because of its increased signal strength for better syncing glasses at a distance, not so much because the buzz was annoying while watching a movie at volume.
post #1119 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjsbuyer View Post

My serial number is in the 800 range and I have been fortunate so far not to notice the buzz even with the volume muted and my projector is mounted almost directly overhead. That is only after watching about 6 hours because we don't watch much 3d. From what others have said. I don't think you'll notice it during a movie. YMMV. Most anyone that has gotten an external emitter recently is because of its increased signal strength for better syncing glasses at a distance, not so much because the buzz was annoying while watching a movie at volume.

Ah, okay! So the external emitter solves the buzzing issue?

Is it possible to hook up a 3rd party RF emitter to it to help out with sync issues?
post #1120 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemsonJeeper View Post

Ah, okay! So the external emitter solves the buzzing issue?

Is it possible to hook up a 3rd party RF emitter to it to help out with sync issues?

Yes, you can use the Monster Vision RF transmitter and use either the MV3D or Optoma RF glasses.
post #1121 of 3345
I had the buzzing and mine is about three weeks old shipped directly from Sony. I called there support and the tech said with my serial number the issue should of not occurred. Sony sent out a free external emitter to solve my issue. I got it in the mail yesterday...so the turn around was about 5 days including the weekend!
post #1122 of 3345
Speaking of 3d I was hoping you guys could help me with something. Right now I have a cheap white screen. I am wanting to get a grey screen to help with blacks and ambient light. I have been using the elite projector calculator and manually typing values in. There is a section that will calculate 70% loss for 3d. Does anyone know what lumen number I should put in for 3d? I was using 1100 since the review I read shows this as the lumens this projector gets on refrence mode in high lamp mode. If this is correct should I set the loss to be 70%? Sorry if its a dumb question but its driving me crazy. I would love to get a grey screen that is .9 gain but with the numbers I put in I am only showing 6-8 fl in 3d which is really low.
post #1123 of 3345
I think the 70% might be from "torch mode" and not a calibrated mode but I could be wrong.
post #1124 of 3345
Perhaps this may be useful for some:
http://www.ixbt.com/dvd/sony-vpl-hw50es.shtml
post #1125 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by natas777 View Post

I had the buzzing and mine is about three weeks old shipped directly from Sony. I called there support and the tech said with my serial number the issue should of not occurred. Sony sent out a free external emitter to solve my issue. I got it in the mail yesterday...so the turn around was about 5 days including the weekend!

Mine is in the 400's and I didn't notice buzzing even with it overhead. Sony sent me an external emitter to solve my synch issues. And it did clear that up. Rock solid synch now.
post #1126 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemsonJeeper View Post

Is this only if you use the internal IR emitter? Does it go away if you use the external emitter?

How loud is it? Noticeable during a movie? I'm thinking of buying this projector but the buzzing might be a show stopper. The projector will be right behind the main seating area with 9 foot ceilings so it will be pretty close.

meh i had it maybe 2 - 3 feet from my head at one point in testing and it gets louder as you the move the glasses brightness up, on max brightness, you can definitely hear it at first, but your brain ignores it after a few min to be honest with you. it is kind of high pitched so it starts to fall in the realm of what you can and cannot hear, so it easilly fades away... If you have an external it does not buzz.


to each his own, but do i think its stupid that a $4000 projector buzzes at all in 3d mode, yes i do.... is it deal breaker for me.. no it is not...
post #1127 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Yes, you can use the Monster Vision RF transmitter and use either the MV3D or Optoma RF glasses.

Zombie, are either of those glasses sets better than the sony in your opinion? or is it close enough that the sony glasses and emitter should just be used in your opinion ?

if you were to also use the MV3D glasses which i hear good things about, does this improve on ghosting at all or what are the pluses here ?
Edited by tothjm - 1/24/13 at 9:08am
post #1128 of 3345
Just received my HW50 today! Didn't have much time to play with it but can confidently say that it has PERFECT convergence and focus. Didn't need to make any adjustments. That makes me very excited!!! Was able to check out about 5 minutes of Avatar in 3d and didn't have any problem with buzzing or glasses losing sync. Projector is shelf mounted. The image was very sharp (RC on 30) and bright on my 159" HP and was some of the best 3d I've seen. Had to leave for work but will do more testing once I get home. biggrin.gif
post #1129 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmaowner View Post

Just received my HW50 today! Didn't have much time to play with it but can confidently say that it has PERFECT convergence and focus. Didn't need to make any adjustments. That makes me very excited!!! Was able to check out about 5 minutes of Avatar in 3d and didn't have any problem with buzzing or glasses losing sync. Projector is shelf mounted. The image was very sharp (RC on 30) and bright on my 159" HP and was some of the best 3d I've seen. Had to leave for work but will do more testing once I get home. biggrin.gif

Sounds similar to my experiences with it so far. I didn't notice any buzzing and its temporarily setup right in front of me on a coffee table. That could be that I wasn't on a hunt for buzzing though. But either way, this tells me its not something that will impact me during viewing. I will say the sync stayed great so long as I was facing the screen. If I looked down at my phone for a few minutes and looked back up it would re-sync in about 1 second. I did see VERY minor ghosting on Avatar on certain little objects, but nothing that really stood out and took away from the experience. Again, you have to look for it.

I'll be interested to see what happens when I mount to the ceiling and move it further away from the projection wall. See if that impacts glasses sync or buzzing.
post #1130 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by havok2022 View Post

Sounds similar to my experiences with it so far. I didn't notice any buzzing and its temporarily setup right in front of me on a coffee table. That could be that I wasn't on a hunt for buzzing though. But either way, this tells me its not something that will impact me during viewing. I will say the sync stayed great so long as I was facing the screen. If I looked down at my phone for a few minutes and looked back up it would re-sync in about 1 second. I did see VERY minor ghosting on Avatar on certain little objects, but nothing that really stood out and took away from the experience. Again, you have to look for it.

I'll be interested to see what happens when I mount to the ceiling and move it further away from the projection wall. See if that impacts glasses sync or buzzing.


what 3d settings are you on right now. what depth and brightness ?

also can you turn 3d depth up to 2 and tell me if that changes ghosting to terrible for you ?
post #1131 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by tothjm View Post

Zombie, are either of those glasses sets better than the sony in your opinion? or is it close enough that the sony glasses and emitter should just be used in your opinion ?

if you were to also use the MV3D glasses which i hear good things about, does this improve on ghosting at all or what are the pluses here ?

Not zombie... but I have both the MV3D and the newer model Optima. MV3D has larger lens and work well. Be aware there are reports of them losing charge quickly. I have a charge station setup and I always recharge them after each use. No problem so far. The MV3D can be found cheap because they have been basically discontinued from what I hear. The Optima are lighter and are supposed to hold the charge. The MV3D can have a slight buzz (Yes another buzz to complain about) but I don't notiice it when wearing them. If I put my ear flat on the wide part of the stem I can hear it for some of my pairs. Non issue for me. I have not tested the Optima for this buzz. I tried to fiddle with the settings with the MV3D to reduce Ghosting but never really felt I got it better consistently. You can tweak them to get a bunch of extra brightness and for some content it was very nice but for others the ghosting was worse. All in all the MV3D are my favotie and I use the default settings. I have no synch problems at all with the RF and my projector is behind the back wall so I can not really use the IR anyway (without an external emitter at least).

Finally I suspect the glasses in this link might work but I have not tried them. If anyone has can they comment?

http://www.curtpalme.com/RFGlasses.shtm
post #1132 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by tothjm View Post

what 3d settings are you on right now. what depth and brightness ?

also can you turn 3d depth up to 2 and tell me if that changes ghosting to terrible for you ?

I took the glasses out of the box and turned them on. I adjusted no settings away from factory to my knowledge.
post #1133 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post

IIRC this is exactly what how DFI on the Sony is implemented. It is very similar to a film projector (remember those) running at 24p where the aperture is opened twice per frame.

Yes some patrons were bothered by the flicker of a standard movie projector in movie theaters. On the other hand some movie buffs like DFI because of the sharper motion handling and the nostalgic film projector look.

So we now have a n of 3 indicating that DFI ('Film Projection') on the VW1000ES has no flicker with 24p content.

I really wonder why DFI is implemented poorly for 24p content in all their other projectors.

I drew up a little schematic of how I think DFI should work; here it is as a PDF:

http://cl.ly/MQB9

I believe the HW30/50 & VW95 are all using (2) in my schematic; namely, 96Hz processing with 48Hz flicker (frame doubling, then inserting a black frame between each frame).

I'd assume the VW1000 is at least using (3); namely 144Hz processing with 72Hz flicker (frame tripling, then inserting a black frame in between each frame), if not higher.

72Hz flicker should not be objectionable. 48Hz flicker is. There are diminishing returns as you go to the higher frequency processing modes (4) & (5); in fact, they may be undesirable as asking the liquid crystal arrays to switch 240 times/sec is likely impractical.

144 times/sec (for 72Hz flicker) should not be impractical since apparently the HW50 can do 120 times/sec just fine, since that's what it needs to do for DFI with 60p content (which it handles just fine).

Note the cost in brightness for all the different modes should be the same, as I show in my schematics (total duration of dark frames remains the same; frequency increases and duration of each individual dark frame decreases).

However, there is a way to implement some of those modes I outlined with less of a loss in brightness, at the cost of more flicker. For example, in the 144Hz processing mode, you could handle the DFI in two different ways: one costs less brightness but causes flicker, while the other costs more brightness but reduces flicker:

144Hz Processing, frame-sextupling:

1-1-D-1-1-D | 2-2-D-2-2-D
----1/24s---- |----2/24s----
48Hz flicker, 2/6 frames are dark frames

... instead of:

1-D-1-D-1-D | 2-D-2-D-2-D
----1/24s---- |----2/24s----
72Hz flicker, every other frame is a dark frame

The first case only causes a 33% loss in brightness (2 out of every 6 frames is a dark frame); the latter causes 50% loss in brightness (every other frame is a dark frame).

So there are ways you could play with this algorithm to cause more/less drop in brightness. Given that the HW50 does not lose that much brightness when DFI is enabled, I wonder if they're using something more like the former. In the two schemes above, I would prefer the latter... less brightness, but no flicker. The HW50 does have brightness to spare, after all...

Anyway, according to the reports from VW1000ES owners, looks like Sony figured out DFI for 24p content on the VW1000. They're the only company that even uses DFI in a projector (that I know of) to achieve near-DLP motion (without soap opera effect). Not sure what's holding them back from proper implementation in all their other projectors.

If this is not a hardware limitation, does anyone think there's a possibility of a firmware fix?

At any rate, others who are turned off from 'Film Projection' due to the flicker with 24p content: perhaps we could all contact Sony Customer Service & let them know we're bothered by it & find this feature unusable? Perhaps they may then take it seriously?

I'll try on my end.
Edited by sarangiman - 1/25/13 at 5:10pm
post #1134 of 3345
Haven't posted in some time. Just had a read of all the pages and pages of complaints.

Sony have totally bodged up the internal IR emitter. In my UK unit they've disabled the 3d emitter menu from the service menu. I had issues with sync. All was resolved by simply contacting my dealer who provided me with an external emitter and upon installing that i've had NO issues at all with sync. Not gone out of sync once. I've watched a few movies without a single stutter.

If you purchased from a dealer, speak to them. It's a single phone call and if your dealer is worth his salt he'll deal with it. My dealer in fact sent me an emitter within 24 hours! No charge.

Speak to your dealer first then Sony.

As regard the ghosting issue, please adjust image depth in your 3d settings. Pause your movie, adjust it and then leave it. I find some movies work at different depths to others. Once adjusted it's fine for the whole movie. No issues.

As for the half sbs HTPC users, fact of the matter is the material is probably a dodgy illegal download. What do you expect? It's haf the bitrate. It's an insult to the PJ to feed it such poor material. Go hire the movie in full on bluray and enjoy it properly. Can't complain to Sony that SBS material is poor through the PC when the reality is that you are saying between the lines that your illegal downloads don't work in 3d properly tongue.gif

Can I also ask a question? Since putting my Lens in front of the PJ my remote won't access the IR at the front by where your average Lens would sit. Clearly evidence of bad design! Does the IR port on the side mean you can stick in an IR emitter and relocate the IR remote signal externa:confused:lly?
post #1135 of 3345
Just wondering if anyone is experiencing any power on issues? I've had this projector for a few months now, and about 50% of the time it acts very stubborn in turning on. It just won't do it. It doesn't matter if I point it directly at the unit, or bounce the signal off the screen. It also doesn't matter if I use my Logitech Harmony Touch (which I hate), or the original remote. Sometimes it takes pressing the button 15-20 times, literally before it powers on. What I'm wondering is if it could have to do with the receiver, and things getting turned on in different orders? Maybe something is overriding the projector? Can equipment be turned on via the receiver?

I have a brand new Denon AVR 4520 that I got with the projector, maybe it's doing something? Anyone else have the same combo?
post #1136 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmaowner View Post

Just received my HW50 today! Didn't have much time to play with it but can confidently say that it has PERFECT convergence and focus. Didn't need to make any adjustments. That makes me very excited!!! Was able to check out about 5 minutes of Avatar in 3d and didn't have any problem with buzzing or glasses losing sync. Projector is shelf mounted. The image was very sharp (RC on 30) and bright on my 159" HP and was some of the best 3d I've seen. Had to leave for work but will do more testing once I get home. biggrin.gif
You bothered going in to work after just getting it set up ?? confused.gif
post #1137 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac_hs10 View Post

Can some one please show me how to turn down Reality creation? That would save me a lot if time from going back in this thread.
Did your projector not ship with a manual?
post #1138 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oven View Post

Just wondering if anyone is experiencing any power on issues? I've had this projector for a few months now, and about 50% of the time it acts very stubborn in turning on. It just won't do it. It doesn't matter if I point it directly at the unit, or bounce the signal off the screen. It also doesn't matter if I use my Logitech Harmony Touch (which I hate), or the original remote. Sometimes it takes pressing the button 15-20 times, literally before it powers on. What I'm wondering is if it could have to do with the receiver, and things getting turned on in different orders? Maybe something is overriding the projector? Can equipment be turned on via the receiver?

I have a brand new Denon AVR 4520 that I got with the projector, maybe it's doing something? Anyone else have the same combo?


Oven


2 things.:

1: try to connect your BR direct to the projector and see if it starts up first time
2: are you using HDMI control ? ( if yes, try turning it off )


dj
Edited by d.j. - 1/27/13 at 11:35am
post #1139 of 3345
Hi Oven,

I have no power on issues (ceiling mounted, apr. 5 m from screen upside down). I sometimes have to shoot for the screen to operate it, but then it works without any problems.

It does not power off when there is no HDMI signal present. To power down I at least have to have the receiver on, other sources can be switched off.


I also consider buying the Denon 4520. The issue I have with the Sony HW50 is that for 21:9 movies in 3D it does not stretch vertically for my Prismasonic. The Denon 4520 has a built-in scaler to stretch vertically, but does it also do it with 3D-content in 21:9? As an example Prometheus 3D or Brave 3D.


Regards,
Ralf
post #1140 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjsbuyer View Post

You bothered going in to work after just getting it set up ?? confused.gif

Yea somebody has to pay the bills.

So here's some more impressions, 2d looks absolutely stunning with tons of detail and pop and motion is silky smooth. I think this is the projector to get if you are a previous DLP owner like me. Sharpness is just stunning with RC set to minimum and MPEG set to low. Black levels are very good, not as good as the JVC RS40 I demo'd but very nice overall. A huge upgrade for me coming from a Infocus X10. The 3D is very good as well. With FI set to low and RC at 20 ~ 30, it looks spectacular! It's just so clean and clear. Like looking through a window, especially with the glasses set at the highest setting. But there's too much ghosting in flicker at that setting so it's 2 or 3 for me. There's still some ghosting here and there and very little flicker. Even with the little ghosting and flicker I think its better then anything I've ever seen, including the Epson 6020 and Benq w1070 I recently sold. If only it could do 3d without any ghosting or flicker!!! Maybe one day. I played some Halo 4 online for a few hours and thought it was great and didn't notice any lag issues and I'm a SR64 so I play quite a bit.

So to sum it up I think the Sony is truly the best overall projector you can buy at the moment for under 3K. If you demand the absolute best blacks get yourself a JVC. In low lamp mode with the iris set to the lowest setting, blacks on the JVC are INKY black. Best I've ever seen on a projector. The Sony in comparison are dark greyish.
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