Official Sony VPL-HW50ES Owners Thread - Page 33

This info...
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1451697/panasonic-zt60-plasma-at-ces-2013

indicates that Panasonic and Sony are expanding the color gamut even for blu-ray content on some plasmas. The Sony HW50 has an x.v.color setting (on or off). I had thought this was for using a source that has an expanded color gamut (like a camcorder). Now I am not so sure. Could it be that the HW50 will also expand Rec 709 source material when this is enabled? It seems to have an effect when feeding from blu-ray and it disables the gamut adjustment setting when it is ON. The manual is not much help. Any way to find out if this setting is actually expanding the color gamut regardless of the source color space or was just intended for use with x.v.color sources? I know that Rec 709 is showing what was intended but I just want to understand what this setting is doing and if it effects blu-ray (beyond disabling the gamma adjustment). Anyone using this setting with blu-ray?

Just put in my order for an HW50, so I'll be posting here more in the future. Hopefully about how amazing it is. Room isnt done yet, but it should give me good motivation to finish up quickly.

Hi,

I have just purchased the Sony HW50ES after upgrading from a JVC HD350.

I am finding the black floor levels on this projector are no where near what I had on the JVC. The lamp is in low mode, and the manual iris is set at 0. The black floor in 3D seems to be really good and on par with the JVC, though I should imagine this is aided by the glasses. I have also tried an ND filter but doesn't seems to make much difference, at least compared to the JVC.

I have a light controlled room with dark walls and velvet panels each side of the screen, and when projecting a black image it appears grey. When placing my hand in front of the lens its quite a contrast between the silhouette of my hand and the projected image.

Everything else about this projector is perfect and so far really impressed especially when watching 3D material.

What is the source of the black image?

Is the black image PC level black of 0 or video level 16?

I have tried various different sources i.e. PS3, Mac Mini and even the projected with no source going through, so using the projectors native output of black.

You can can see the DI closing but seems like its not closing down far enough.

I'm projecting onto a 87" grey screen at about 10'.

After reading so many reviews I was expecting the black floor level to be closer.

I got my projector yesterday and spent an hour or 2 setting it up.

2D looks significantly better than my previous projector, but 3D doesn't even work with the included sony glasses. Thankfully I bought a monster 3d rf emitter and a pair of glasses for it. The 3d works through those, but the sony glasses get sync for maybe a second or 2 when I first look at the screen. I get a second or so of 3d "pop" and then it just goes to mush, it looks the same as if they weren't on. I know the emitter is still on as my monster is still in sync and I can hear that annoying buzz coming from the sony emitter.

I'm guessing this is what people are talking about the ir emitter not being strong enough and losing sync? I'm a little surprised as I have a 13' throw and my first row of seats is 8.5 ft. So my room is by no means big. I guess I need to call up avs or possibly sony.

On a positive note I am surprised my 4 year old 50ft hdmi can pass a 3d 1080p signal w/o any problems. It's only rated for 1080i/720p, but it is working like a champ at 1080p 3d.

you may be watching only Half SBS content. The 1.3 cables can handle that, but from what i understand you need the 1.4 cable for true 1080p 3d as on a BD it hold an image of 3840 x 1080 using frame packing, and that is just too much to send via hdmi 1.3 ( please correct me if i am wrong )

I have a actually been trying to find out how to actually display full 1080 3D from my HTPC as when i do it the picture is still very tiny and i may need some kind of media streaming or to just get the 3d ISO files and play those. But that is a topic for a different area of the forum

No it's full 1080p 3d, framepacked or whatever it's called. I was playing the avatar 3d bluray. I believe its a 22awg silverplated monoprice cable (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024002&p_id=2678&seq=1&format=2) if I remember correctly.

It also looks like my 3d glasses issue is related to the emitter being too weak. I have it ceiling mounted with the lens about level with the top of the screen. So i went ahead and tried standing close to the screen (~5ft) and it appears to work fine. If I hunch over to a sitting height i lose sync or if I move back to far I also lose sync. I'm not too impressed with sony's built in emitter. It's kinda loud and it has less range than my $10 universal remote.

Complaints aside about the 3d emitter, the projector is pretty damn good so far. I haven't calibrated it but out of the box the color and alignment look fairly good. About all I have changed so far is dropping rc resolution to 20 on both 2d and 3d, and upped motion flow or whatever fi is called in 3d to high. Blacks are not quite as good as I thought they would be, but as it's not calibrated and I'm running on high lamp mode (which I can watch with the lights fully on) I'll leave final judgement on that for later.

How old is your projector? I thought once they got pass #200 on the sony they had worked on the problem with the noise from the emitter. I was at a friends house which has the 50 es and the slightest movement of your head it lost sync with the projector,which would become quite annoying, i know with my 90es you could move your head considerable with no loss of signal.

It's complicated. For existing cables - try them and see if they work first. Just because an older cable is rated at 1.3 does not mean it can't handle the bandwidth requirements of 1.4 - well engineered 1.3 cables will work fine and they are only rated at 1.3 because 1.4 didn't exist when they were rated. If the spec change included additional wires in the cable that didn't exist before that are needed for a new feature (like Ethernet over HDMI) then that is a different story.

In other words - don't go out and buy all new 1.4 cables to replace all of your 1.3 cables before testing them first.

They reduced it but did not eliminate it. My #3xx projector has an audible 3d whine.

No idea.. UPS dropped it off last night at 7pm and i only spent about 2hrs last night with it getting mounted and setup. Is the # on the sticker or is it in the menu? I might be able to sneak away from the family tonight for a few minutes to check .

I believe It's on the serial # on both places, on my 90es it was, My 50es is also coming tonight:)
i believe somewhere in this thread they were suppose to solve or minimize the issue?

Anything after 200 will not get a "free" emitter. Supposedly they changed something on these unit going forward, but I had a #231 and currently #237 and they both had a buzz when in 3D mode. I will say that my #231 was louder than #237, and if you go into the service menu and change the emitter power, it makes it much more tolerable. I'm still debating on getting an emitter as I also now have IR from the PJ making my IR receiver flash like crazy.

At the price we are paying that might be a deal breaker for me,as i have the 90es now which is quiet as hell.... when my comes tonight i will make the call,and if I'm not happy I'll go with a 2nd projector for 3d brightness...
I hop it all works out.

The original release had a noticeable buzz, the last 2 I saw were quieter, but could still hear it depending on where the projector is located.

If it still bugs you, I would nicely ask the dealer/Sony for the external emitter. I doubt they want to take a projector back for a relatively inexpensive part (the external emitter). My understanding from Sony is that the new external emitter is as powerful as the internal vs. last year's HW30 emitter which generally required a mounting location near the screen facing the seats.

I sit about 3 feet away on the left side of the pj, and about 5 feet below it, and the buzzing is very noticible when I had it at the normal power. I reduced it to low power and it is much better, but not gone completely.
I would've thought that too, but they insisted on doing a swap of the entire projector. 2-Day FedEx to me, and then I shipped my old one back FedEx ground. Had to be $80 just in shipping alone, plus now a unit they can't sell as new, vs sending me the emitter and being done with it.

thanks for the info on your experience. There is a Sony rep who reads the threads, hopefully they will read about your situation and send a message through corporate to just offer the emitter vs. swapping the projector which can create a poor user experience (especially if it's a good copy).

It was that Sony rep that talked me into the Advanced Exchange, so I'm guessing they're taking a stand on sending out the emitters at this point. I haven't gotten my screen yet (backorder on the fabric) so I haven't actually sat through an entire movie to see how annoying the buzz is, just a few scenes here and there to test. If I decide it's too loud, I might get too loud.

Hey guys. How do you get the spare lamp in Canada? My dealer didn't know anything about it and I called Sony and they don't know nothing about a spare lamp:rolleyes:

Finally got around to testing out the Sony after a long vacation and it's pretty damn amazing. Forgot how good the motion is on this thing when compared to the JVCs I had for the last few years and it's better then the Epson too. The motion seems to be even better then the VPl vw90 I had. The IRIS is pretty much invisible (except fade to blacks) and it's the quietest projector I've ever owned even in high lamp it's less noisy then most projectors in low lamp. 3D is great but not perfect. Super bright and SHARP, but of course not ghost free. I would rate the ghosting as being similar to the Epson 5010 but the 3D image overall is much better and I had the Epson side by side. Don't feel like doing a full review because I'm sure Zombie and many others have already, but it's definetely a step up from the Epson and I really liked the Epson.

I'm really sensitive to buzzing and yes it's there but so very faint that I hardly notice it right now during movies.
Now about that lamp......

Thanks.

This may be crazy talk, but I thought I had heard the extra lamp was US only. Again, I'm probably completely wrong.

http://bcp-mime.sony.ca/sonybiz/public/homepage/footer/en_CA/images/Sony_projlamp_web.pdf

this web site will take you to the mail in form for your extra bulb in Canada for the hw50 es

See. Crazy talk

Hi any one try 720p 3D gaming on there sony Like GT5 a while back, I thought I saw a post which said it was not very good as there was a lot more ghosting on 720p at 60hz than when in 1080p 3D but have not been able to find it again or confirm this as I am close to buying one just want to know what to expect. As I am use to 3D on a dlp.

Conan, how do you like it compared to your Sony90es - 2d and 3d mode?

Well I had the VW90es a few years ago so the memory of it is foggy now, but I would say that the HW50 is 10000000x better for 3D and I think with 2D it's better also but thats because of the RC processing. Without RC I would choose the VW90 for 2D as it's optically sharper and the black levels were slightly better (from memory) The RC is pretty amazing at what it does. I can't find any thing to complain about with the HW50. It's most definetely the best "overall" projector I've owned. Now the JVC may have slightly better blacks, but EVERTHING else goes to the Sony. Motionflow is the best FI i've seen/used and motionflow in 3D with animation or live action content is just beyond words, the JVCs motion is good but the Sonys motion is GREAT. The Sony is very bright and much brighter then the JVC. 3D is way better then the JVCs I've had (not sure how the new models are doing)

I'm not sure how improved optical sharpness would affect the Sony. The RC magic seems to almost negate the need for great optical sharpness as I can't find any negative to RC at it's lowest setting.

I bet alot of people are wondering how the Sony improves on the 5010/5020:
Less screen door effect
slightly brighter in 3D
Sharper more dynamic picture in 3D
MUCH quiter then the Epson, especially in high lamp
Iris is also silent, the epspon iris makes a grinding sound similar to a hard drive.
Iris is near invisible on the Sony, and much more apparent on the Epson
Better native contrast
FI is better on the Sony and usable in 3D
Native motion resolution is better then the Epson
RC is much better then Epson Super Res
2D best mode is much brighter then the Epson but Epson has its 2400 lumen torch mode but with very inacurate colours.
2D picture is more dynamic and more refined then the Epson.
comes with 2 pairs of glasses and free spare lamp
3 year warranty vs 2 years, but Epson does add advanced 1 day exchange for any reason with the 2 year period.

So the bottom line. Is all that worth the extra 1000. I say YES!

Thanks for the link on the mail in rebate

Well, I find that with some movies I can't use RC (e.g. 'Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy') b/c of the inherent noise/grain that gets ridiculously amplified. Even with RC at 'min'. For that reason, I prefer optical sharpness. Which I can actually get my stopping down the lens (Iris Open Reg; 725, enable 'Auto Limited'). Of course, that doesn't work for 3D, which opens up the lens all the way. Maybe that's why I feel I need excessive RC with 3D (along with some report that 3D on the HW50 is not actually 1080p... which is weird/concerning).

And, wow, motion resolution must be pretty poor on the JVC if you love the Sony... I'm still mildly bothered by motion blur on the HW50. I can see it get better with Dark Frame Insertion, but I feel the latter to be unusable for 24p content due to flicker. But, yes, the motion blur is much better than on an Epson 8350 I briefly owned.

Out of curiosity, are you just subjectively judging 'motion resolution'? I don't know of a good way of measuring it quantitatively with my current equipment.

720/60p frame-packed 3D gaming is a no-go on my HW50ES. Ghosting is ridiculous.

I just don't understand how the Epson can handle it though. That'd imply the Epson's technique of line-doubling/480Hz actually leads to faster effective frame response, which I'd figure would not only help 3D, but also motion resolution. But people claim Sony has better motion resolution.

If only some review site properly quantitated this stuff.

Thanks for the review conan48!

I'm pretty happy with my HW50 as well. The only thing I miss with the JVC was the slightly better black levels and the better dynamic range (higher CR). Everything else is better. This projector also feels like a light weight in comparison. I do use the lens cap though and when putting it on/off can force you to have to refocus the pic when taking the lens cap off though.