or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › Official Sony VPL-HW50ES Owners Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official Sony VPL-HW50ES Owners Thread - Page 33

post #961 of 3345
What is the source of the black image?

Is the black image PC level black of 0 or video level 16?
post #962 of 3345
I have tried various different sources i.e. PS3, Mac Mini and even the projected with no source going through, so using the projectors native output of black.

You can can see the DI closing but seems like its not closing down far enough.

I'm projecting onto a 87" grey screen at about 10'.

After reading so many reviews I was expecting the black floor level to be closer.
post #963 of 3345
I got my projector yesterday and spent an hour or 2 setting it up.

2D looks significantly better than my previous projector, but 3D doesn't even work with the included sony glasses. Thankfully I bought a monster 3d rf emitter and a pair of glasses for it. The 3d works through those, but the sony glasses get sync for maybe a second or 2 when I first look at the screen. I get a second or so of 3d "pop" and then it just goes to mush, it looks the same as if they weren't on. I know the emitter is still on as my monster is still in sync and I can hear that annoying buzz coming from the sony emitter.

I'm guessing this is what people are talking about the ir emitter not being strong enough and losing sync? I'm a little surprised as I have a 13' throw and my first row of seats is 8.5 ft. So my room is by no means big. I guess I need to call up avs or possibly sony.

On a positive note I am surprised my 4 year old 50ft hdmi can pass a 3d 1080p signal w/o any problems. It's only rated for 1080i/720p, but it is working like a champ at 1080p 3d.
post #964 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by daWill View Post

I got my projector yesterday and spent an hour or 2 setting it up.

2D looks significantly better than my previous projector, but 3D doesn't even work with the included sony glasses. Thankfully I bought a monster 3d rf emitter and a pair of glasses for it. The 3d works through those, but the sony glasses get sync for maybe a second or 2 when I first look at the screen. I get a second or so of 3d "pop" and then it just goes to mush, it looks the same as if they weren't on. I know the emitter is still on as my monster is still in sync and I can hear that annoying buzz coming from the sony emitter.

I'm guessing this is what people are talking about the ir emitter not being strong enough and losing sync? I'm a little surprised as I have a 13' throw and my first row of seats is 8.5 ft. So my room is by no means big. I guess I need to call up avs or possibly sony.

On a positive note I am surprised my 4 year old 50ft hdmi can pass a 3d 1080p signal w/o any problems. It's only rated for 1080i/720p, but it is working like a champ at 1080p 3d.


you may be watching only Half SBS content. The 1.3 cables can handle that, but from what i understand you need the 1.4 cable for true 1080p 3d as on a BD it hold an image of 3840 x 1080 using frame packing, and that is just too much to send via hdmi 1.3 ( please correct me if i am wrong )

I have a actually been trying to find out how to actually display full 1080 3D from my HTPC as when i do it the picture is still very tiny and i may need some kind of media streaming or to just get the 3d ISO files and play those. But that is a topic for a different area of the forum smile.gif
post #965 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by tothjm View Post

you may be watching only Half SBS content. The 1.3 cables can handle that, but from what i understand you need the 1.4 cable for true 1080p 3d as on a BD it hold an image of 3840 x 1080 using frame packing, and that is just too much to send via hdmi 1.3 ( please correct me if i am wrong )

I have a actually been trying to find out how to actually display full 1080 3D from my HTPC as when i do it the picture is still very tiny and i may need some kind of media streaming or to just get the 3d ISO files and play those. But that is a topic for a different area of the forum smile.gif

No it's full 1080p 3d, framepacked or whatever it's called. I was playing the avatar 3d bluray. I believe its a 22awg silverplated monoprice cable (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024002&p_id=2678&seq=1&format=2) if I remember correctly.

It also looks like my 3d glasses issue is related to the emitter being too weak. I have it ceiling mounted with the lens about level with the top of the screen. So i went ahead and tried standing close to the screen (~5ft) and it appears to work fine. If I hunch over to a sitting height i lose sync or if I move back to far I also lose sync. I'm not too impressed with sony's built in emitter. It's kinda loud and it has less range than my $10 universal remote.

Complaints aside about the 3d emitter, the projector is pretty damn good so far. I haven't calibrated it but out of the box the color and alignment look fairly good. About all I have changed so far is dropping rc resolution to 20 on both 2d and 3d, and upped motion flow or whatever fi is called in 3d to high. Blacks are not quite as good as I thought they would be, but as it's not calibrated and I'm running on high lamp mode (which I can watch with the lights fully on) I'll leave final judgement on that for later.
post #966 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by daWill View Post

No it's full 1080p 3d, framepacked or whatever it's called. I was playing the avatar 3d bluray. I believe its a 22awg silverplated monoprice cable (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024002&p_id=2678&seq=1&format=2) if I remember correctly.

It also looks like my 3d glasses issue is related to the emitter being too weak. I have it ceiling mounted with the lens about level with the top of the screen. So i went ahead and tried standing close to the screen (~5ft) and it appears to work fine. If I hunch over to a sitting height i lose sync or if I move back to far I also lose sync. I'm not too impressed with sony's built in emitter. It's kinda loud and it has less range than my $10 universal remote.

Complaints aside about the 3d emitter, the projector is pretty damn good so far. I haven't calibrated it but out of the box the color and alignment look fairly good. About all I have changed so far is dropping rc resolution to 20 on both 2d and 3d, and upped motion flow or whatever fi is called in 3d to high. Blacks are not quite as good as I thought they would be, but as it's not calibrated and I'm running on high lamp mode (which I can watch with the lights fully on) I'll leave final judgement on that for later.

How old is your projector? I thought once they got pass #200 on the sony they had worked on the problem with the noise from the emitter. I was at a friends house which has the 50 es and the slightest movement of your head it lost sync with the projector,which would become quite annoying, i know with my 90es you could move your head considerable with no loss of signal.
post #967 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by tothjm View Post

you may be watching only Half SBS content. The 1.3 cables can handle that, but from what i understand you need the 1.4 cable for true 1080p 3d as on a BD it hold an image of 3840 x 1080 using frame packing, and that is just too much to send via hdmi 1.3 ( please correct me if i am wrong )

It's complicated. For existing cables - try them and see if they work first. Just because an older cable is rated at 1.3 does not mean it can't handle the bandwidth requirements of 1.4 - well engineered 1.3 cables will work fine and they are only rated at 1.3 because 1.4 didn't exist when they were rated. If the spec change included additional wires in the cable that didn't exist before that are needed for a new feature (like Ethernet over HDMI) then that is a different story.

In other words - don't go out and buy all new 1.4 cables to replace all of your 1.3 cables before testing them first.
post #968 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post

How old is your projector? I thought once they got pass #200 on the sony they had worked on the problem with the noise from the emitter.

They reduced it but did not eliminate it. My #3xx projector has an audible 3d whine.
post #969 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post

How old is your projector? I thought once they got pass #200 on the sony they had worked on the problem with the noise from the emitter. I was at a friends house which has the 50 es and the slightest movement of your head it lost sync with the projector,which would become quite annoying, i know with my 90es you could move your head considerable with no loss of signal.

No idea.. UPS dropped it off last night at 7pm and i only spent about 2hrs last night with it getting mounted and setup. Is the # on the sticker or is it in the menu? I might be able to sneak away from the family tonight for a few minutes to check smile.gif.
post #970 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by daWill View Post

No idea.. UPS dropped it off last night at 7pm and i only spent about 2hrs last night with it getting mounted and setup. Is the # on the sticker or is it in the menu? I might be able to sneak away from the family tonight for a few minutes to check smile.gif.

I believe It's on the serial # on both places, on my 90es it was, My 50es is also coming tonight:)
i believe somewhere in this thread they were suppose to solve or minimize the issue?
post #971 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post

How old is your projector? I thought once they got pass #200 on the sony they had worked on the problem with the noise from the emitter. I was at a friends house which has the 50 es and the slightest movement of your head it lost sync with the projector,which would become quite annoying, i know with my 90es you could move your head considerable with no loss of signal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post

I believe It's on the serial # on both places, on my 90es it was, My 50es is also coming tonight:)
i believe somewhere in this thread they were suppose to solve or minimize the issue?
Anything after 200 will not get a "free" emitter. Supposedly they changed something on these unit going forward, but I had a #231 and currently #237 and they both had a buzz when in 3D mode. I will say that my #231 was louder than #237, and if you go into the service menu and change the emitter power, it makes it much more tolerable. I'm still debating on getting an emitter as I also now have IR from the PJ making my IR receiver flash like crazy.
post #972 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post


Anything after 200 will not get a "free" emitter. Supposedly they changed something on these unit going forward, but I had a #231 and currently #237 and they both had a buzz when in 3D mode. I will say that my #231 was louder than #237, and if you go into the service menu and change the emitter power, it makes it much more tolerable. I'm still debating on getting an emitter as I also now have IR from the PJ making my IR receiver flash like crazy.

At the price we are paying that might be a deal breaker for me,as i have the 90es now which is quiet as hell.... when my comes tonight i will make the call,and if I'm not happy I'll go with a 2nd projector for 3d brightness...
I hop it all works out.
post #973 of 3345
The original release had a noticeable buzz, the last 2 I saw were quieter, but could still hear it depending on where the projector is located.

If it still bugs you, I would nicely ask the dealer/Sony for the external emitter. I doubt they want to take a projector back for a relatively inexpensive part (the external emitter). My understanding from Sony is that the new external emitter is as powerful as the internal vs. last year's HW30 emitter which generally required a mounting location near the screen facing the seats.
post #974 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The original release had a noticeable buzz, the last 2 I saw were quieter, but could still hear it depending on where the projector is located.
I sit about 3 feet away on the left side of the pj, and about 5 feet below it, and the buzzing is very noticible when I had it at the normal power. I reduced it to low power and it is much better, but not gone completely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

If it still bugs you, I would nicely ask the dealer/Sony for the external emitter. I doubt they want to take a projector back for a relatively inexpensive part (the external emitter).
I would've thought that too, but they insisted on doing a swap of the entire projector. 2-Day FedEx to me, and then I shipped my old one back FedEx ground. Had to be $80 just in shipping alone, plus now a unit they can't sell as new, vs sending me the emitter and being done with it.
post #975 of 3345
thanks for the info on your experience. There is a Sony rep who reads the threads, hopefully they will read about your situation and send a message through corporate to just offer the emitter vs. swapping the projector which can create a poor user experience (especially if it's a good copy).
post #976 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

thanks for the info on your experience. There is a Sony rep who reads the threads, hopefully they will read about your situation and send a message through corporate to just offer the emitter vs. swapping the projector which can create a poor user experience (especially if it's a good copy).
It was that Sony rep that talked me into the Advanced Exchange, so I'm guessing they're taking a stand on sending out the emitters at this point. I haven't gotten my screen yet (backorder on the fabric) so I haven't actually sat through an entire movie to see how annoying the buzz is, just a few scenes here and there to test. If I decide it's too loud, I might get too loud. smile.gif
post #977 of 3345
Hey guys. How do you get the spare lamp in Canada? My dealer didn't know anything about it and I called Sony and they don't know nothing about a spare lamp:rolleyes:

Finally got around to testing out the Sony after a long vacation and it's pretty damn amazing. Forgot how good the motion is on this thing when compared to the JVCs I had for the last few years and it's better then the Epson too. The motion seems to be even better then the VPl vw90 I had. The IRIS is pretty much invisible (except fade to blacks) and it's the quietest projector I've ever owned even in high lamp it's less noisy then most projectors in low lamp.biggrin.gif 3D is great but not perfect. Super bright and SHARP, but of course not ghost free. I would rate the ghosting as being similar to the Epson 5010 but the 3D image overall is much better and I had the Epson side by side. Don't feel like doing a full review because I'm sure Zombie and many others have already, but it's definetely a step up from the Epson and I really liked the Epson.

I'm really sensitive to buzzing and yes it's there but so very faint that I hardly notice it right now during movies.
Now about that lamp......

Thanks.
post #978 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Hey guys. How do you get the spare lamp in Canada? My dealer didn't know anything about it and I called Sony and they don't know nothing about a spare lamp:rolleyes:

Finally got around to testing out the Sony after a long vacation and it's pretty damn amazing. Forgot how good the motion is on this thing when compared to the JVCs I had for the last few years and it's better then the Epson too. The motion seems to be even better then the VPl vw90 I had. The IRIS is pretty much invisible (except fade to blacks) and it's the quietest projector I've ever owned even in high lamp it's less noisy then most projectors in low lamp.biggrin.gif 3D is great but not perfect. Super bright and SHARP, but of course not ghost free. I would rate the ghosting as being similar to the Epson 5010 but the 3D image overall is much better and I had the Epson side by side. Don't feel like doing a full review because I'm sure Zombie and many others have already, but it's definetely a step up from the Epson and I really liked the Epson.

I'm really sensitive to buzzing and yes it's there but so very faint that I hardly notice it right now during movies.
Now about that lamp......

Thanks.
This may be crazy talk, but I thought I had heard the extra lamp was US only. Again, I'm probably completely wrong.
post #979 of 3345
http://bcp-mime.sony.ca/sonybiz/public/homepage/footer/en_CA/images/Sony_projlamp_web.pdf

this web site will take you to the mail in form for your extra bulb in Canada for the hw50 es
post #980 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPC1 View Post

http://bcp-mime.sony.ca/sonybiz/public/homepage/footer/en_CA/images/Sony_projlamp_web.pdf

this web site will take you to the mail in form for your extra bulb in Canada for the hw50 es
See. Crazy talk
post #981 of 3345
Hi any one try 720p 3D gaming on there sony Like GT5 a while back, I thought I saw a post which said it was not very good as there was a lot more ghosting on 720p at 60hz than when in 1080p 3D but have not been able to find it again or confirm this as I am close to buying one just want to know what to expect. As I am use to 3D on a dlp.
post #982 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Hey guys. How do you get the spare lamp in Canada? My dealer didn't know anything about it and I called Sony and they don't know nothing about a spare lamp:rolleyes:

Finally got around to testing out the Sony after a long vacation and it's pretty damn amazing. Forgot how good the motion is on this thing when compared to the JVCs I had for the last few years and it's better then the Epson too. The motion seems to be even better then the VPl vw90 I had. The IRIS is pretty much invisible (except fade to blacks) and it's the quietest projector I've ever owned even in high lamp it's less noisy then most projectors in low lamp.biggrin.gif 3D is great but not perfect. Super bright and SHARP, but of course not ghost free. I would rate the ghosting as being similar to the Epson 5010 but the 3D image overall is much better and I had the Epson side by side. Don't feel like doing a full review because I'm sure Zombie and many others have already, but it's definetely a step up from the Epson and I really liked the Epson.

I'm really sensitive to buzzing and yes it's there but so very faint that I hardly notice it right now during movies.
Now about that lamp......

Thanks.

Conan, how do you like it compared to your Sony90es - 2d and 3d mode?
post #983 of 3345
Well I had the VW90es a few years ago so the memory of it is foggy now, but I would say that the HW50 is 10000000x better for 3D and I think with 2D it's better also but thats because of the RC processing. Without RC I would choose the VW90 for 2D as it's optically sharper and the black levels were slightly better (from memory) The RC is pretty amazing at what it does. I can't find any thing to complain about with the HW50. It's most definetely the best "overall" projector I've owned. Now the JVC may have slightly better blacks, but EVERTHING else goes to the Sony. Motionflow is the best FI i've seen/used and motionflow in 3D with animation or live action content is just beyond words, the JVCs motion is good but the Sonys motion is GREAT. The Sony is very bright and much brighter then the JVC. 3D is way better then the JVCs I've had (not sure how the new models are doing)

I'm not sure how improved optical sharpness would affect the Sony. The RC magic seems to almost negate the need for great optical sharpness as I can't find any negative to RC at it's lowest setting.

I bet alot of people are wondering how the Sony improves on the 5010/5020:
Less screen door effect
slightly brighter in 3D
Sharper more dynamic picture in 3D
MUCH quiter then the Epson, especially in high lamp
Iris is also silent, the epspon iris makes a grinding sound similar to a hard drive.
Iris is near invisible on the Sony, and much more apparent on the Epson
Better native contrast
FI is better on the Sony and usable in 3D
Native motion resolution is better then the Epson
RC is much better then Epson Super Res
2D best mode is much brighter then the Epson but Epson has its 2400 lumen torch mode but with very inacurate colours.
2D picture is more dynamic and more refined then the Epson.
comes with 2 pairs of glasses and free spare lamp
3 year warranty vs 2 years, but Epson does add advanced 1 day exchange for any reason with the 2 year period.

So the bottom line. Is all that worth the extra 1000. I say YES!
post #984 of 3345
Thanks for the link on the mail in rebate biggrin.gif
post #985 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

The RC magic seems to almost negate the need for great optical sharpness as I can't find any negative to RC at it's lowest setting.

I bet alot of people are wondering how the Sony improves on the 5010/5020:
...
Native motion resolution is better then the Epson

Well, I find that with some movies I can't use RC (e.g. 'Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy') b/c of the inherent noise/grain that gets ridiculously amplified. Even with RC at 'min'. For that reason, I prefer optical sharpness. Which I can actually get my stopping down the lens (Iris Open Reg; 725, enable 'Auto Limited'). Of course, that doesn't work for 3D, which opens up the lens all the way. Maybe that's why I feel I need excessive RC with 3D (along with some report that 3D on the HW50 is not actually 1080p... which is weird/concerning).

And, wow, motion resolution must be pretty poor on the JVC if you love the Sony... I'm still mildly bothered by motion blur on the HW50. I can see it get better with Dark Frame Insertion, but I feel the latter to be unusable for 24p content due to flicker. But, yes, the motion blur is much better than on an Epson 8350 I briefly owned.

Out of curiosity, are you just subjectively judging 'motion resolution'? I don't know of a good way of measuring it quantitatively with my current equipment.
post #986 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPC1 View Post

Hi any one try 720p 3D gaming on there sony Like GT5 a while back, I thought I saw a post which said it was not very good as there was a lot more ghosting on 720p at 60hz than when in 1080p 3D but have not been able to find it again or confirm this as I am close to buying one just want to know what to expect. As I am use to 3D on a dlp.

720/60p frame-packed 3D gaming is a no-go on my HW50ES. Ghosting is ridiculous.

I just don't understand how the Epson can handle it though. That'd imply the Epson's technique of line-doubling/480Hz actually leads to faster effective frame response, which I'd figure would not only help 3D, but also motion resolution. But people claim Sony has better motion resolution.

If only some review site properly quantitated this stuff.
post #987 of 3345
Thanks for the review conan48!

I'm pretty happy with my HW50 as well. The only thing I miss with the JVC was the slightly better black levels and the better dynamic range (higher CR). Everything else is better. This projector also feels like a light weight in comparison. I do use the lens cap though and when putting it on/off can force you to have to refocus the pic when taking the lens cap off though.
post #988 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

Well, I find that with some movies I can't use RC (e.g. 'Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy') b/c of the inherent noise/grain that gets ridiculously amplified. Even with RC at 'min'. For that reason, I prefer optical sharpness. Which I can actually get my stopping down the lens (Iris Open Reg; 725, enable 'Auto Limited'). Of course, that doesn't work for 3D, which opens up the lens all the way. Maybe that's why I feel I need excessive RC with 3D (along with some report that 3D on the HW50 is not actually 1080p... which is weird/concerning).

And, wow, motion resolution must be pretty poor on the JVC if you love the Sony... I'm still mildly bothered by motion blur on the HW50. I can see it get better with Dark Frame Insertion, but I feel the latter to be unusable for 24p content due to flicker. But, yes, the motion blur is much better than on an Epson 8350 I briefly owned.

Out of curiosity, are you just subjectively judging 'motion resolution'? I don't know of a good way of measuring it quantitatively with my current equipment.

The grain does get slightly exagerated with RC even at min, but that movie has grain for "artistic" effect, and I would say 90% of movies now a days are very clean with little to no grain. Not sure if you realize this but great optical sharpness also makes grain stand out just as much. I had the benq w5000 which is considered one of the sharpest DLPs out there and it also made grain stick out like a sore thumb. Don't blame the projector for grain which is in the source itself. Now if the projector added grain itself.....that would be a different story. Not a big deal as you can just turn RC off and get decent sharpness with no exagerated grain for problem movies like TTSP.

The Sony is most certainly the best non DLP projector on the market for motion. If the Sony is not good enough for you then the JVC will be unaceptable to you for motion. I play lots of games which is a great way to test for motion res, and I also use some test patterns from a Japenese FPD benchmark disc which includes the infamous hammock scene which completely destroyed older JVC projectors.

Still interested in getting a VW90 quality lens in combination with RC and darbee to see what type of difference a better lens would make with RC.
post #989 of 3345
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Not sure if you realize this but great optical sharpness also makes grain stand out just as much. I had the benq w5000 which is considered one of the sharpest DLPs out there and it also made grain stick out like a sore thumb. Don't blame the projector for grain which is in the source itself.

The Sony is most certainly the best non DLP projector on the market for motion. If the Sony is not good enough for you then the JVC will be unaceptable to you for motion. I play lots of games which is a great way to test for motion res, and I also use some test patterns from a Japenese FPD benchmark disc which includes the infamous hammock scene which completely destroyed older JVC projectors.

Your first statement is a bit of a generalization, but yes I get your point. Depending on what RC chooses to emphasize (which, in turn, depends on the quality of the noise/grain), though, it could sometimes amplify noise more than is desired. My point was simply that for some content it just doesn't work. Yes, I realize that's in the source, which is why I mentioned 'for some content' (season 1 of 'Breaking Bad' is another great example). So for content where RC just doesn't work, a lens with uniformly high MTF would especially be desirable.

Meanwhile, for a great transfer like the IMAX scenes of The Dark Knight Rises, you can keep cranking up the RC & it just works wonders. Up to a certain point of course.

Out of curiosity, where did you get the FPD benchmark disc? I would love to get my hands on one, or the ISO of one anyway!

Thanks.
post #990 of 3345
I saw how cheap the 3d emitter is from avs ($63) and just said the heck with it an ordered it. Not worth my time trying to get it for free from sony for that amount.

Do people usually mount these on the projector facing the screen or above/below the screen facing the seats?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › Official Sony VPL-HW50ES Owners Thread