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Personal advise for a sound engineer

post #1 of 42
10/6/12 at 10:05am
Thread Starter 
Hi everyone. Awesome forum smile.gif

I am a sound engineer. I record and mix a lot of music and do work for cable tv shows.

I am expanding my space and creating a listening space for myself that is away from the studio. The seating area is 12'x12' with one of the sides open to a rear area where my bar is.

Here is the deal: I am thinking about doing a surround sound setup in that room because I love watching movies and there will be a speaker in the bathroom and speakers in the bedroom as well. I am nuts... a sound engineer needs music everywhere!

Does anyone have any experience with in-wall speaker solutions that sound good? I have heard some before and I have always thought they sounded like crap, but it has been a while.
Also, I am looking to dedicate a HTPC computer and run a media app which will be j-river:
http://www.jriver.com/

So does anyone have any experience with a setup like this? I would like a nice system since I listen to music all the time (the stuff I am mixing and released music) I just don't want cube speakers hanging off the walls. Who knows... maybe there are good solutions that look and sound good. Oh, no Bose!!!!!!!! LOL

Cost wise I am looking to spend 400-600 on the surround system. The lower end of the scale would be better since I have to get a bunch of amps for everything. Size does matter. I am looking for smaller vs larger speakers to keep the space "simple looking" since my job is very mentally demanding. The whole suite is a simple but moderately modern looking so I can relax from the mental challenge of critical listening, engineering and mixing sound.

I am not opposed to cutting holes in walls and finishing them out to slide in speakers into a recessed shelve.

Ok, to wrap up:
office: 2 ceiling/wall speakers
bedroom: 2 ceiling/wall speakers
bathroom: 1 ceiling speaker
personal listening area: Surround system: rear speakers in wall or ceiling. Standing front L-R-C and sub is fine. A must is good stereo sound listening to music in 2.1

HTPC computer
a few sound cards for all the zones/speakers
a few multi-channel amps to drive everything.

The listening room is my biggest priority. I want it to sound good, but it doesn't have to be hyper accurate like my control room which has Focal solo6 be speakers. I did read threads on the energy classic series which brought me here and they are a contender. My trouble is time.... I don't have much time to go out and audition systems with my reference music.

Any input or experiences greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 42
10/6/12 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Engineer View Post

Any input or experiences greatly appreciated.

Based on your stated budget and you being a sound engineer, you're not going be close to liking the final results; no way, no how, fer-get-about-it.

To give you some of an idea of a realistic budget, to give you some generalized ideas, here are some in-wall Klipsch speakers to get you started.

For a sound engineer, I'd expect a more realistic budget to be in the $2k - $5k range (not including sub woofers) as opposed to your stated budget of $400 - $600.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 10/6/12 at 11:25am
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post #3 of 42
10/6/12 at 12:22pm
Thread Starter 
That budget is not feasible for me. A little more than anticipated... perhaps. As I said, I'm just looking for something that sounds good. I don't need reference speakers and I don't want a huge system that takes up a lot of space. And I know that is kind of limiting.

Currently I have a playback system in the live room that sounds just OK. It is a pair of Onkyo D-N3XA speakers with a Energy esw8 sub. This playback system is hit or miss and the highs totally lack. What I am looking is for something with better range than this system.

A few friends of mine have surround systems and my girlfriend too. I am going to bring some reference discs over and listen more closely to them.

Even if the sound is not remotely close to my studio reference monitors, I will be fine with that as long as the range it relatively even and full range. I can and plan on tuning the room to suit whatever system I wind up going with.

I will have a look at those wall speakers you posted. Thanks for that. Just know, I am not an audio snob at all. I do like listening to music in the control room as I rig up a session but that level of fidelity is not required for this media center. To be honest, I wouldn't be able to relax and chill if it was hyper detailed since I spend all day in that type of environment. I will say this: The like the sound system in my Scion XB. But that is car audio, BUT it is consumer grade, stock and detailed enough for me to enjoy listening to music. I really like that system they plopped in there.

Thanks again for the response.
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post #4 of 42
10/6/12 at 1:05pm
Based on your above, a suggestion would be to get away from in-wall speakers. Check out Pioneer and Polk Audio speakers as they're more in keeping with your stated budget.

At Amazon; "Pioneer home audio speakers." Included are some in-wall speaker choices.

At Amazon: "Polk Audio Home audio speakers."

I list Amazon only because it's a quick list source. I don't list Amazon as a place to buy. Hopefully, the above gives you some decent starter ideas.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 10/6/12 at 1:14pm
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post #5 of 42
10/6/12 at 1:12pm
The new Pioneer speakers
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57490890-47/mission-impossible-design-great-sounding-affordable-speakers/

Boston in-wall
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/BOSHSI255/BOSTON-ACOUSTICS-HSi-255-2-Way-5-1/4-LCR-In-Wall-Speaker-Each/1.html

Snell in-ceiling
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/SNELLOHT7/SNELL-OH-T7-Full-range-6.5-inch-coax-Direct-Power-waveguide-Each/1.html
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post #6 of 42
10/6/12 at 1:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Engineer View Post

Even if the sound is not remotely close to my studio reference monitors, I will be fine with that as long as the range it relatively even and full range. I can and plan on tuning the room to suit whatever system I wind up going with.
I will have a look at those wall speakers you posted. Thanks for that. Just know, I am not an audio snob at all. I do like listening to music in the control room as I rig up a session but that level of fidelity is not required for this media center. To be honest, I wouldn't be able to relax and chill if it was hyper detailed since I spend all day in that type of environment. I will say this: The like the sound system in my Scion XB. But that is car audio, BUT it is consumer grade, stock and detailed enough for me to enjoy listening to music. I really like that system they plopped in there.
I have to say I was skeptical at first when I read your first post but what you posted above I completely understand. To coin a colloquialism, Tru Dat !

When I was engineering the mod for my bookshelf BICs I used the sound system in my truck (another Toyota like your Scion) as a guide. It is just like you said of yours. It not detailed and deos not have an extended response but has a certain tonal balance that is a joy to listen to. I say this as someone who has been in audio for a long time. I have heard some of the finest systems ever built and owned quite a bit of high end stuff too. I can really identify with being able to "relax and chill" with a sound. That's exactly what I went after because I know there is a smooth warmness you need that will not irritate. When that type of comfort is achieved the sound has the ability to take you to a state of relaxation like some kind of alpha waves or something.
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post #7 of 42
10/6/12 at 3:15pm
In wall as opposed to in-ceiling if you go that way. I think I would use a classic 5.1 bookshelf system in the HT and in-wall in the bedroom. Even a set of monoprice or AudioSource ~6" 2-ways are OK for casual listening (or mood music) in the bedroom, but bookshelves will sound better in the listening room/HT.

Rather than in-wall, I would go with something like NHT zeros or Cambridge Audio S30s that each run about $200 a pair. I think you can get a NHT 5.1 setup for $500.

Bathroom can cur get away with a lot less - everything is reflective in there and the walls are close together. I sometimes use an MP3 player with a JBL speaker dock (about 2.5" speakers) which is enough for the bathroom.
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post #8 of 42
10/20/12 at 3:43pm
Thread Starter 
Hello everyone. I thought I followed up with everyone, but I guess I missed this forum. I was leaning on the Pioneer fs52s


So today I went to a BestBuy to listen to those FS52s. To me, they sounded terrible. The mid range sounded so focused (honky if you know what that means) and the high frequencies were not very defined and image.... not there at all... I had to search and focus to examine it. I really had high hopes and was ready to pick up a set. You really do get what you pay for. As far as reviewers comparing these to other speakers 5x the cost or whatever their claim in my opinion is truly false. There were 3 other sets of speakers, but I cannot remember the models exactly... Only was polk then 2 different pairs of Klipsch. The polks were $200 (TSI300 I think) had more high end and more low end than the Pioneers. I didn't really care for them. Their sound was scooped the low frequencies were loose.. flabby... with not much detail. When I auditioned the Klipsch (KF-26 I think based on the prices I remember seeing on the tags) whammo, instant sound stage like having a center channel. This was not subtle either. I didn't audition the last speaker set since it was out of my price range.

I know someone will probably chime in and say that the pioneer will sound balanced with a sub. Here are my thoughts on that (remember I am a audio engineer) What we perceive in frequency response has a lot to do with how clean or colored a sound is. On paper something may be listed as having a flat frequency response from "X"Hz to "X" kHz. That is all well and good if the character of the speaker is even across its bandwidth. If for some reason, there is color, especially harmonic distortion, in a few octaves, our brains interpret that as being louder. So, either A: the Pioneer speakers have color banding in the mids, or they are just mid-range focused. Dynaudio BM5s and BM6s have the same thing, just not as extreme. The addition of a sub should make little difference if there is balance. For instance, the B&W 685 and CM1GB show how this is true. They do not project much bass. It sounded like they were rolling off at 100hz even if they say they go to 49hz on paper. However, even they were lacking in the low frequencies, everything else sounded balanced, even in the bass heavy reference material I brought. And yeah, they are indeed more expensive too.

So, for now... back to the sounding board. Doing a little research on the cb-20s from energy. Those are a surprise.
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post #9 of 42
10/21/12 at 5:55am
Thread Starter 
1 day later. I bought a couple sets of Energy RC-10s. We'll see how they sound when they arrive.
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post #10 of 42
10/21/12 at 6:34am
You are a sound engineering but you want to play the stuff you mix and release on cheap speakers LOL

You are a sound engineer but you plan on adding "a bunch" of amps to cheap speakers LOL

You are a sound engineer but you shop for speakers at Best Buy LOL

So how many amps and what kind are you adding to those speakers you bought? LOL
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post #11 of 42
10/21/12 at 6:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Engineer View Post

When I auditioned the Klipsch (KF-26 I think based on the prices I remember seeing on the tags) whammo, instant sound stage like having a center channel. This was not subtle either.

---next post---

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Engineer View Post

1 day later. I bought a couple sets of Energy RC-10s. We'll see how they sound when they arrive.

Okay, I give, why not the more sensitive Klipsch speakers? According to Energy, their RC-10's need two speakers in a typical room to reach 91db 1w/1m which makes their real world sensitivity more like 73dB 1w/4m at main listening position vs Klipsch's real world sensitivity, based on an unreenforced rating of 97db 1w/1m or if you will, a real world rating of 85dB, 1w/4m with two speakers playing. A 12dB rating difference, two speakers playing, at a four meter listening position, is "HUGE!" if wanting to play movie loud or simply filling a room with soothing, end of the day music.

As a sound engineer, I know you know this so your choice leaves me passed out on the floor in wonderment, as I ponder the why of the Energy choice vs your comment about the Klipsch choice above as I'm guessing you want to be enveloped by warm, comforting music to take the stress of the day away.

..............................???

Yes I did read that the size of the speaker was a consideration but if you get soul sucking sound out of the bookshelf speakers (lack of projection into the room/too laid back), my opinion, you being a sound engineer (you will be professionally critical), there's little to zero chance you're going relax with the sound, even if drinking straight bourbon. Again, this is my opinion. My take, the sound is just going get more and more grating because of how laid back you're going find the sound quality. So, you being a sound engineer, I'm curious, based on what you posted above, why the choice of Energy over the Klipsch speakers? Speakers, according to your above, you did hear and like. ???

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 10/21/12 at 7:01am
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post #12 of 42
10/21/12 at 6:45am
Apart from the room, speakers are the most important component in the sound chain. I found spending money on speakers (in my case DIY) the most rewarding of any purchase. Good speakers cost quite a bit, there's no way around this.
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post #13 of 42
10/21/12 at 6:56am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

You are a sound engineering but you want to play the stuff you mix and release on cheap speakers LOL
You are a sound engineer but you plan on adding "a bunch" of amps to cheap speakers LOL
You are a sound engineer but you shop for speakers at Best Buy LOL
So how many amps and what kind are you adding to those speakers you bought? LOL

Ok Smart Guy,

I stated before that I just want a place to listen to music outside of work. I went to best buy to listen to consumer grade speakers because I don't want a high end system for my personal space. I also listened to some more expensive ones too for comparison. As far as amps, I will most likely get a surround sound amp receiver with 2 zones for the other rooms that will be fed from my HTPC.

Obviously something struck a cord with you about me being a sound engineer. Maybe you can't relate to that or anything else I wrote. That is fine. Why be a jerk? I don't think I come off as some audio priest. I just want a decent system to listen to music too outside of work that doesn't cost me an arm and a leg. I know this is possible too.
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post #14 of 42
10/21/12 at 6:56am
Thread Starter 
double post
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post #15 of 42
10/21/12 at 7:09am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

---next post---
Okay, I give, why not the more sensitive Klipsch speakers? According to Energy, their RC-10's need two speakers in a typical room to reach 91db 1w/1m which makes their real world sensitivity more like 74dB 1w/4m at main listening position vs Klipsch's real world sensitivity, based on an unreenforced rating of 97db 1w/1m or if you will, a real world rating of 88dB, 1w/4m with two speakers playing. A 14dB rating difference, two speakers playing, at a four meter listening position, is "HUGE!" if wanting to play movie loud or simply filling a room with soothing, end of the day music.
As a sound engineer, I know you know this so your choice leaves me passed out on the floor in wonderment, as I ponder the why of the Energy choice vs your comment about the Klipsch choice above.
..............................???
Yes I did read that the size of the speaker was a consideration but if you get soul sucking sound out of the bookshelf speakers (lack of projection into the room/too laid back), my opinion, you being a sound engineer (you will be professionally critical), there's little to zero chance you're going relax with the sound, even if drinking straight bourbon. Again, this is my opinion. My take, the sound is just going get more and more grating because of how laid back you're going find the sound quality. So, you being a sound engineer, I'm curious, based on what you posted above, why the choice of Energy over the Klipsch speakers? Speakers, according to your above, you did hear and like. ???
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Gut feeling to be honest. I have not heard the rc-10s but the other energy Cb-20s. If I don't like the energy ones I ordered, I will return them. When the salesman turned on the cb20's I thought they sounded ok. There were not any glaring "WTF??? thoughts" When i got back home I did some research and found the rc-10. After I did some reading on them, it felt right to get them. I don't know how else to explain it but it felt like the search was over so I ordered a couple of sets. Worst case, if they are not what I want, I will set 2 in the live room in place of the Onkyo d-n3xa that are there now.

Who knows... maybe I screwed up. Time will tell. I appreciate you taking time to post the sensitivities and your other questions. I don't have a lot to say except a gut feeling grabbed me.
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post #16 of 42
10/21/12 at 7:10am
Sound Engineer, just saying, the ignore feature goes a long way in lowering the noise floor around here.
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post #17 of 42
10/21/12 at 7:12am
Thread Starter 
Does this forum lose posts? I just replied to your other post Beeman and is is gone. I used the quick response form at the bottom of the thread.
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post #18 of 42
10/21/12 at 7:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Engineer View Post

1 day later. I bought a couple sets of Energy RC-10s. We'll see how they sound when they arrive.

I have some Energy RC-10s. I like them, but they are a little warm sounding.

Since it sounds like you might be looking for a fairly flat response, look at Denon receivers with Audyssey Multi EQ XT. It has a lot of EQ filters to help smooth the in room response.
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post #19 of 42
10/21/12 at 9:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Engineer View Post

Who knows... maybe I screwed up. Time will tell. I appreciate you taking time to post the sensitivities and your other questions. I don't have a lot to say except a gut feeling grabbed me.

I have no doubt that on a simple level you'll be happy with the sound quality of the Polk Audio speakers but my guess, you'll find the speakers too laid back for a sound engineer's tastes who's, all day long, use to quality sound. Based on your comments, my takeaway is, you simply want enveloping sound to take the stress of daily life away and my opinion laid back speakers do not create an enveloping sound stage I see you as wanting. I'd articulate it like a chef wanting a simple meal of grilled rib-eye steak where the chef wants the relaxing simplicity of the meal's preparation but still expects the quality a "prime" cut brings to the culinary experience. I see what you're wanting to be the simplicity of the acoustic experience but still expecting quality of sound. I don't see the RC-10's bringing this type of synergy to this type of acoustic expectation.
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post #20 of 42
10/21/12 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Engineer View Post

Does this forum lose posts? I just replied to your other post Beeman and is is gone. I used the quick response form at the bottom of the thread.

I've not experienced this phenomenon.
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post #21 of 42
10/23/12 at 11:05am
Thread Starter 
Apparently the post was held since I was new here, which seems ironic since I get emails asking where I am. smile.gif


Anyway, I have finished ordering the system. I hope I am happy with it and you all were right, it was a bit more than I had initially expected to pay. The system wound up being the following:

1 x Energy RC_LRC
4 x Energy RC-10s
Denon AVR-2112CI
1 X Energy ESW8 Sub (which I already own)

The system to my door wound up costing me $1017.86

So to those that read this and are in the same shoes as I (wanting a system for a reasonable price with decent quality) this is how I went. I totally agree that $1000-$1500 is pretty much rock bottom for a decent surround system. I could have saved money on a receiver and gone with one with less features, but I was sold on the speaker correction in the Devon 1712. I just couldn't find one for less than $350. There were refurb ones available, but I read about a number of D.O.A.s and do not want want to deal with that. I found a demo 2112 for $360 and couldn't pass it up since the 1712 new was 10 bucks cheaper.

I think I did well, but I do wonder. Now seeing how much this system costed me in the end, what other options for a full surround system are available. I spent most of my time focusing on one thing at a time, instead of a whole package. This was the main reason this thing climbed the way it did from what I initially was looking to spend. The other thing is sonic quality. If it doesn't matter to someone, or if they can't discern the differences in the sonics, I suppose a lower price can be had. Heck, I was over at my buddy's house a couple of nights ago and he has these tiny little cubes and a sub. He is happy with it, but he doesn't listen much to music, where there can separate systems in a big way. From what I read, and it totally makes sense, theater surround for movies and TV vs stereo music can separate quite a lot of systems. Music is first in line and I feel if you have that, then it should sound pretty darn good on movies too.

And the funny thing... I went with the RC series from a gut feeling LOL. I really hope I didn't screw up! biggrin.gif
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post #22 of 42
10/23/12 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Engineer View Post

So today I went to a BestBuy to listen to those FS52s. To me, they sounded terrible. The mid range sounded so focused (honky if you know what that means) and the high frequencies were not very defined and image.... not there at all... I had to search and focus to examine it. I really had high hopes and was ready to pick up a set. You really do get what you pay for. As far as reviewers comparing these to other speakers 5x the cost or whatever their claim in my opinion is truly false. There were 3 other sets of speakers, but I cannot remember the models exactly... Only was polk then 2 different pairs of Klipsch. The polks were $200 (TSI300 I think) had more high end and more low end than the Pioneers. I didn't really care for them. Their sound was scooped the low frequencies were loose.. flabby... with not much detail. When I auditioned the Klipsch (KF-26 I think based on the prices I remember seeing on the tags) whammo, instant sound stage like having a center channel. This was not subtle either. I didn't audition the last speaker set since it was out of my price range.

Completely agree on the Polks. They are obviously scooped. However I disagree on the Pioneers. Could be the large barn of a listening area inside of BestBuy or maybe you are just not looking for accurate midrange and would prefer a more relaxed coloration. Maybe it was power compression at trying to get the Pio's up over the din of the store due to their lower sensitivity. Hard to say.

What you seem to like an in-your-face treble from the horn Klipsch. I can't stand them as their tweeters are hash, sibilant and painfully shrill to my ears. I can pick out a set of Klipsch being demoed in a store from a great distance. But, the horn is probably what is giving you that center-channel soundstage effect. Had you not already ordered, I would recommend looking into Bic or Hsu for some well-executed horn tweeter designs at more reasonable prices.
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post #23 of 42
10/23/12 at 1:47pm
Thread Starter 
The environment was not the best for listening. That is for sure. As far as me liking an in your face treble, that is not the case. Listening to all of them in the same environment was a common though. The klipsch just presented a center whereas the pioneer did not. I actually suffer from tinnitus. High frequencies hurt me. Now, given that my all day listening comes from very extended monitors, focal solo6s, I am used to that extension being there. Maybe that is why my report was the way it is. Also, I did have to level match as I switched between speakers, so the sensitivity and amp response could well have been a factor in how the pioneers performed. I was 4-5' in front of the speakers. I did toe then in a bit too. Perhaps that is another factor. The speaker's dispersion. I did toe them all in the same.

So for now I have to run... I will add more after sessions tonight or tomorrow.
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post #24 of 42
10/24/12 at 1:44am
A lot of sound engineers can't listen off work at all.

Tinnitus will make you much more sensitive to poor quality drivers.

I would have recommended used only with that budget.
My experience is that smaller speakers are more costly for good quality.
There are custom in wall drivers, usually the best deal.
You may want to use more than single units, as least as a long term option.

With your background, i think tuning the room acoustically by making it as live and the walls as hard and non-flat as possible, is the best thing you can do.
Important anywhere, but especially for you.
You want a dramatic amount of reflection with a rapid decay.
Many surround systems suck and good acoustics may cause there to be too much added fake reverb.
Many mixes also just suck as they are for large theaters, not homes with decent acoustics.

A listening room is usually very different from a room used for mixing, even though some studios are being built more 'live'.

Use stereo subs or no sub.
Mono subs destroy the spatial imaging.
They only belong on mono systems.
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post #25 of 42
10/24/12 at 6:22am
Thread Starter 
I agree a lot with most of what you wrote except the following:
Quote:
Originally Posted by THX-1138 View Post

Use stereo subs or no sub.
Mono subs destroy the spatial imaging.
They only belong on mono systems.

If you are to take studio mixes and low pass the content, you will find with a audio goniometer that it gets progressively more mono the lower you go.... completely vertical. Live recordings are another story, there you may find that more separation in the lower octaves of the recording, depending how they recorded the actual venue sound and mixed it with the direct sounds of the close mics.

Being in this field for about 25 years, I can tell you I personally do not pan bass sounds and that the bass region of a mix is a very delicate area to work with due to the amount of power it holds and energy it takes to reproduce on a playback system. Maybe other people pan bass heavy instruments, but I have not, and I can tell you for a fact that it is common practice to not pan bass frequencies. You lose a lot of power doing that and one speaker will get a lot more work for the same amount needed of energy to keep the mix spectrally balanced on a playback system. The translation from system to system will be a major problem and you just lost a boatload of efficiency. Especially with consumer grade speakers that are not bi-amplified, you will compromise the entire audio spectrum and even the balance of the higher frequencies since the power that is being used to drive the drivers in one speaker is forced to push the woofer, thus robbing the tweeter and midrange of available power that is limited to the amp's capacity. Have you heard tweeters breakup or lose clarity due to indi home studio mixes? The majority of the time is because the bass region of their mixes were not built to be efficient.

The only other thing that comes to mind is if you have your sub crossing over in the 100's of Hz range where you start picking up low-mids in the mix. That would start to collapse the mix, at least the reproduction of it from the system and listening environment.
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post #26 of 42
10/24/12 at 7:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Engineer View Post

The environment was not the best for listening. That is for sure. As far as me liking an in your face treble, that is not the case. Listening to all of them in the same environment was a common though. The klipsch just presented a center whereas the pioneer did not. I actually suffer from tinnitus. High frequencies hurt me. Now, given that my all day listening comes from very extended monitors, focal solo6s, I am used to that extension being there. Maybe that is why my report was the way it is. Also, I did have to level match as I switched between speakers, so the sensitivity and amp response could well have been a factor in how the pioneers performed. I was 4-5' in front of the speakers. I did toe then in a bit too. Perhaps that is another factor. The speaker's dispersion. I did toe them all in the same.
So for now I have to run... I will add more after sessions tonight or tomorrow.

I have bad tinnitus too. Too many concerts and loud cars. But yeah, the pioneers being 3 way with a 5.25 midrange is going to give different dispersion characteristics than the horn waveguide tweeter in the klipsch too. I'm sure there is a good octave difference in the crossover point for the two, with the Klipsch being the lower and having better dispersion in that band. Hmmm...
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post #27 of 42
11/1/12 at 11:36am
Thread Starter 
So, the RC-10s arrived yesterday. WOWED I was and excited to plug them in. Pretty looking little speakers. After I wired them in with plasma rated hyper copper buss wire and routed the wiring on 30,000 volt insulators and suspended the speakers in the air on anti-gravity shelves, I turned them on and started pumping them fill of volts. There was the top end that I was missing with my other speakers and the blend with the RC10s and the sub was so much nicer since the 10's reach lower than my older speakers. It is interesting. The tone of the tweeter seemed to kind of change after a few hours. It seemed less brittle sounding if that makes sense. Also, I found on lower listening levels, the speakers lay back and are more forward when I crank it up. I really like that, but I don't understand why that would be. Perhaps I am just hearing things, but I will be damned.... they really sound a lot more forward when I push them and mellow and relaxed when I turn the level down.

As far as sound, the imaging is great. I have them spaced really far apart in the live room of the studio (12-13') slightly towed in right now since the listening room isn't finished and they fill the center. it is remarkable really. Well, at least it is remarkable to me because I didn't expect it at all. The center channel is setup between and I could have sworn that it was on, but it wasn't.

I am really happy with the sound and I feel like I did really good with the money I spent on this system.
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post #28 of 42
11/1/12 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Engineer View Post

Hi everyone. Awesome forum smile.gif I am a sound engineer. Does anyone have any experience with in-wall speaker solutions that sound good? I have heard some before and I have always thought they sounded like crap, but it has been a while. The listening room is my biggest priority. I want it to sound good, but it doesn't have to be hyper accurate like my control room which has Focal solo6 be speakers. I did read threads on the energy classic series which brought me here and they are a contender. My trouble is time.... I don't have much time to go out and audition systems with my reference music.
Any input or experiences greatly appreciated.

Sound engineer cool, I would use Focal solo6 be anything else will sound dull frown.gif

Dynaudio are quite good http://www.dynaudio.com/int/home_loudspeaker_systems/installation_products/ip_24.php

Focal makes in wall as well, should be close to the Sol6Be! http://www.focal.com/en/home-audio-loudspeakers/integrated-systems/in-wall/

or B&W in walls sound very good as well http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speakers/Custom_Installation/CI_Series/overview.html

Do you calibrate you room
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post #29 of 42
11/1/12 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Engineer View Post

So, the RC-10s arrived yesterday. WOWED I was and excited to plug them in. Pretty looking little speakers. After I wired them in with plasma rated hyper copper buss wire and routed the wiring on 30,000 volt insulators and suspended the speakers in the air on anti-gravity shelves, I turned them on and started pumping them fill of volts. There was the top end that I was missing with my other speakers and the blend with the RC10s and the sub was so much nicer since the 10's reach lower than my older speakers. It is interesting. The tone of the tweeter seemed to kind of change after a few hours. It seemed less brittle sounding if that makes sense. Also, I found on lower listening levels, the speakers lay back and are more forward when I crank it up. I really like that, but I don't understand why that would be. Perhaps I am just hearing things, but I will be damned.... they really sound a lot more forward when I push them and mellow and relaxed when I turn the level down.
As far as sound, the imaging is great. I have them spaced really far apart in the live room of the studio (12-13') slightly towed in right now since the listening room isn't finished and they fill the center. it is remarkable really. Well, at least it is remarkable to me because I didn't expect it at all. The center channel is setup between and I could have sworn that it was on, but it wasn't.
I am really happy with the sound and I feel like I did really good with the money I spent on this system.

Awesome. Glad you like them. For the price Vanns had, they really are excellent speakers (too bad no more Vanns). And especially for their size. What I like about them is that they do pretty good with a guitar with some growl, ala Hendrix or Jimmy Page.

As far as break-in, a lot of us "think" they sound a little better after some playing time (whether that's psychological or not).
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post #30 of 42
11/1/12 at 4:54pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Sound engineer cool, I would use Focal solo6 be anything else will sound dull frown.gif

Dynaudio are quite good http://www.dynaudio.com/int/home_loudspeaker_systems/installation_products/ip_24.php
Focal makes in wall as well, should be close to the Sol6Be! http://www.focal.com/en/home-audio-loudspeakers/integrated-systems/in-wall/
or B&W in walls sound very good as well http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speakers/Custom_Installation/CI_Series/overview.html
Do you calibrate you room

Hey, thanks for the suggestions. I think I'm cool with what I got. Holy smoke, I can only imagine a surround setup with all focal solos. I'd put that in my control room though so I can save a couple of speakers wink.gif

Once the system is in the room I am building, it will be tuned with some absorbers and diffusers then set up according to Dolby's suggestions here:
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/setup/connection-guide/home-theater-speaker-guide/index.html

I do have the ability with my receiver to do correction too if I can't get the layout perfect, but I am aiming to get it as close as possible. I feel the less correction the better.
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