Gamer Looking For The Final 2012 Word

Ok, I know there are a lot, if not too many of these "Plasma or LCD" threads. But mine is more of a personal, direct question. So I figured I could ask here without seeming like the "same ol' thread". As most the other threads on the subject are too round about, I will have this one steered in a more streamline direction and to focus on me personally and what I use my TV for.

So, I am mainly a gamer. Probably do 85% gaming, 10% BD/DVD'ing and 5% Broadcast Cable T.V.ing. I would say I game a maximum of 6 hours a day sometimes. But will game at least something everyday.

With that said, when I watch movies, unfortunately, they are not always new widescreen movies. Some are old T.V. series box set on DVD, so I will experience the "bars" somewhere. But the other half of the time are new widescreen movies.

Now with that background on me, I also am very anal and picky about my PQ. SO after LONG research I think I have decided to get a Panasonic TC-P55VT50 Plasma HDTV. Its just the best screen for the money right now. And I want a new TV now.

BUT I am still not comfortable with my decision, and every 5 minutes I change my mind back to maybe a good LCD because of the horror stories I read about people with my type of gaming habits and DVD black bar habits getting "Burn In". Not Image Retention, but genuine "Burn In". Then I read reviews where people are telling those people who told their horror story that they did something wrong, or thats impossible, etc...

Also hear about a Red vertical line down one edge, and a Blue vertical line down the other edge with slightly colored edges of fonts too on their plasmas. Then again, others saying that is not the case.

Some of the arguments back and forth are over "your plasma is too old, the new ones don't do that as easy", or "you have to break it in correctly and that wont happen". Then the come backs are, "mine is a 2012 model, and I broke it in for 200 hours".

ETC................. you see my point.

Now me being a serious gamer, BUT serious about the best PQ I can get for that price range, I really want this Panasonic TC-P55VT50, but I have to ask you all here, is it a bad choice for me to get a Plasma TV ? Will this 2012 model be prone to any of the issues I described above ? What do you think ?

Also, I heard Plasmas really buzz decently loud, especially when the screen is bright. Some say to the point of annoyance.

There is so much compelling evidence pointing to both sides. And I just couldn't have that happen to my TV. At the same time, I just can't deal with Motion Blur, Aura effect, blooming, etc... Please help a weary mind with a solid decision to be a happy one too :-)

Thanks so much for any input and help you can provide !

Thanks for the informative reply and suggestions. Yea, I know I am pushing the envelope even thinking of a plasma when I am such a serious gamer, BUT DUDE, I just can't handle motion blur and that aura effect/blooming that even the best LCDs do. Plus the contrast ratio's, even though LCD's are closing the gap, I just really appreciate the rich and smooth but precise look Plasma displays have.

I did not know about the extended warranty covering Burn In. That might be it and the answer to all my worries there. Peace of mind. But is there a specific extended warranty that is the only one that covers Burn In ? Or is that one that any place will offer just fine ? Also, how long is it for ? And you can guaranty it does indeed cover Burn In ?
This is great news ! Thanks for sharing. I just wonder why so many people report problems (even not gaming or gaming very little), and then some like you report having absolutely no BI issues and are serious gamers ? Is it possible every display even from the same company and same model number is built slightly different ?

Or is it possible that some peoples eyes are either not good enough, or they as a person are not anal enough to see they actually do have minor BI and just don't see it ? Cause I know I will see anything, any flaw, etc.. I just super picky with great eyes. I also hear anything too the same way. I can't stand MP3's, they sound like crap. And most the world can't tell. (Hence the music industry has collapsed.)

Yea, sounds like we are in the same boat. Like I said in response to fatuglyguy above though, I just love the looks and performance of a Plasma. I am unsure how to weigh possible BI vs motion blur, blooming, and just simply not as rich of a display.

Also I have to admit, Plasmas do have other issues, though not as serious in my book, they do still hold some lean to other side value... like Heat, and buzzing loud when bright colors are on the screen. I kinda hate that. But man, I never heard of the flickering/jidder issue you mentioned and that is indeed really scaring me now :-( I agree, being able to game on one right next to a good LCD would be nice. But just don't know how to accomplish that with the type of testing I would want to do. LOL, would take hours and being in my environment, not some stores.

Like you said, it sucks, cause every little thing makes me keep being on the fence for both. Don't know what to do.

Hey ElectronicTonic, thanks for the great advice ! I have to say though, as good of a idea as that is, for me right now, it wont work (LONG story), but my place will not be set up to accommodate such a set up until I am done with a remodel. Plus, the whole idea is to play the games on a 55"er. Do they even make computer monitors that big ? And if they do make them that size, aren't they LCD anyway ? The whole point to this is to play my games on the plasma quality and at least 55".

Games I mainly play are RPG's (Oblivion, Skyrim, Dragon's Dogma, etc..) They have health meters/HUD's and stuff on the screen permanently, and with RPG's sometimes you are in a menu screen going through inventory for a LONG time - ha ha... this is pretty text and boxish looking. I also play old school games like Resident Evil's and stuff. Even plug my old NES in and play super Mario Bros ( LOL). But that is just sometimes.

Lots of my older games I play will be in 4:3 ratio... So I'll be barring. Don't know what to do then. On the older games, I wouldn't mind the switch to a computer monitor idea, sure... But again, the current issue of my place wont allow for such a set up.

A few of the movies I will watch are also 4:3. But again, remember that 85% of content on this TV will be games. Out of that 85%, about 10% will be old school 4:3 style games.

Thanks for the link. Yea, I see it says it covers it there. But I notice how it is worded like this: "we will get your screen back to pristine". That doesn't say they will replace it though. Which doesn't matter to me, if they get it back to normal, then cool ! BUT, reading the fine print at the bottom, it does say that you may be charge a diagnosis fee for them to preform a diagnosis to determine the cause of the issue. See where this is going ? To me, this opens the door for them to then say the diagnosis proves that it was owner negligence to cause the BI (which a video game's HUD or health meter burnt into the screen might detail - HA ha !!) in which in that case, its not going to be covered, on top of that you had to pay the diagnosis fee AND the price of the TV AND the warranty for nothing really.

LOL - Damn !

Then again, maybe not. I am just bringing up possible BS cause I know how these manufactures and stores are. So what I will do tomorrow is go down to BB and drill them on everything. On top of that, I may bring my xBox down there and test my favorite game on a few tv's.

I will let you know what they say about the detailed questions on the EW BI coverage and then also if they let me play my games on a Plasma down there

Thanks again for your input and help on this.

Thanks for this info. I will keep you posted on what I find out. Hopefully the issue would never arise, its just IF it did, how would they handle it ? Try to weasel out ? Or just give me a new TV ? I would not want one comparable, I would want the same exact one. Unless there is no more being made at the time of issue, but with this line, I do not think that would happen that soon. My problem with "spec for spec match" is there are some hidden specs we do not know about, and if you fall in move with a TV, sometimes if one is different, but the same listed, readable "specs", it still could perform different. Due to some secret cool way they made the display that year, or anything like that, that wasn't listed in "known specs".

Anyway, thanks again. I'll let you know what happens.


Yes, I will for sure. Unfortunately, I am unsure if I will get there today, cause I want to be well prepared (bring some slides and stuff on a thumbdrive, xBox, games, come with a plan, etc..) and for all that, my day is not unfolding properly. Another thing, is I NOW have read up on the Plasma flicker/judder issue you told me about, and am concerned about that now as it seems to be a legit complaint. All in all, its like every day I jump to the other side of the fence. I'm wondering if all this is worth the extra 1k it would take to just got buy a Sony XBR 55" cause that seems to be the only affordable LCD that is up to Plasma specs. And I just am wondering if the Plasma concerns are too much for me ? (BI, IR, Heat, Buzzing noise, Flicker, etc..) Then again, even though LCD's don't have that, even the best ones will have at least SLIGHTLY more blooming artifacts, etc..

SO what should I do ? And why ? lol I can get the VT50 series from Panny (Plasma) for 2k. Can get the Sony XBR for 3k.

Now I also have learnt about Input Lag, and need to research which one would have less Input Lag as well. I think I am going to post a few more threads in other sections here to get some of the things I need for my visit to the store. Like these "Slides" people are talking about. And any other possible "good" visual testing screens (all black, all white, either with text, etc..)

Very good point. And believe me, it is at the heart of my decision lag. lol - If fatuglyguy is right about the EW from BB, and after I completely drill them with questions about every possible loophole in the warranty, and they do indeed say, they will replace the TV, then I may just chalk up the EW price as my "lease" of a guarantee, and basically, if I get BI, fine, take it back for a new one. And just keep doing that if it keeps happening. When the EW is about to expire, I will just extend it again. (I believe they let you renew it for a total of 10 years max, in 2-4 year increments of purchase)... SO if it is only a couple hundred bucks each renewal, then to me it is worth it. I get a Plasma quality display, and just don't worry about BI. I'll return it for a new one if I see BI. After the 10 years is up, I will want a different TV anyway. I am sure by then Plasma wont be the best display anymore. OLED LCD's will have fine tuned themselves to perfection. Or something will.

BUT the other things are concerning me now. Things I can not take the TV back for. Input Lag, Flicker, Buzzing, Heat, stuff like that. But really, I also don't want to deal with all that returning hassle for a TV, so maybe this will effect my decision.


Thanks for chiming in to help sodaboy581. I have thought about DLP, but for some reason never thought they were a good enough display for me. I have to admit though, I've never used one in real life. Just seen them at a A/V store. I swore I read somewhere that they had issues too as well that stack as high as LCD or Plasma, and just like the monkey wrench is, their issues are different than LCD or Plasma. So to me this just added to the confusion, and I drew the line in my mind, and just didn't want to even think about another technology - LOL.

But hearing from you, being a gamer, maybe there is something to it ? You are saying the PQ is comparable to high end LCD's ? But with the non-existent motion blur and blooming of Plasma ? But PQ is not quite as good as Plasma ? BUT input lag is better than both ? Right ?

On my research, I was under the impression that DLP also had input lag issues though. Also their PQ simply was not up to par. But instead of believing what I read, maybe I will add them to the testing I do when I go on the TV testing day. Real quick, do DLP also offer the Smart TV apps and WiFi and stuff ?

Thanks for the informative post !

You really got me going on this DLP thing, so I went to check them out online, and there only seems to be huge screened ones. Don't they make any ones in a 55" max size ? I know that sounds hilarious, as bigger IS better, but for my purchase this particular time, until my house is done (LONG STORY), I can only accommodate a 55" model tops. But I would want a new one from this year and the Smart TV Streaming ability.

Anyway, looked everywhere and can't seem to find them. Are DLP's only made huge ?

DVD and/or BD and/or Files would be fine, as long as the images/demo movie material is of Full HD quality. Thats great about the Laptop idea and how you do it, but unfortunately for me, I'm still using a older laptop, with no HDMI out, plus the computer itself doesn't do full HD period - lol...

But yes, please, that is the material I am looking for, do you know where I can get this ? DVE, Disney's WOW and good demo material ? In-particular I would be looking for material that would be best to show/expose Motion Blur, Blooming, General PQ, Blacks, Whites, Contrast Ratio, Buzzing, Flicker, and anything else you may think, etc...

PERFECT !! Thanks so much man, I really appreciate the direct link. I am going to buy the WOW disc and the Spears $ Munsil one... Should have all bases covered then. These seem good to have for home too, so I feel it is a good purchase that benefits me well beyond the TV search. Plus I can use them for when I go through all this with my mom when she decides to get a new TV (coming soon !)

The Dark Knight is a good idea.

On any of the WOW or S&M (lol) discs is there a section that is good for exposing a TV's motion blur ? If not, what do you recommend for that ? Dark Knight might help me there, but to save time, was wondering if you had off the top of your head a "go to spot" (minutes and seconds) into it where it would be a perfect test ?

Hey Bill ! Thanks for this valuable info, and jesus, sorry to hear about the BI. Now you got me really worried and second guessing Plasmas. Though, the EW at Best Buy might still keep my fears at bay. Then again, now that I think about it, who wants to keep returning their TV and also dealing with down time, etc.. ?

Anyway, onto the Input Lag. Are you saying that Plasmas don't have Input Lag ? Also, on that subject, I was reading somewhere that as long as your Video Game is plugged in via a digital connection that is the same resolution as the screen display (in our cases 1920x1080) then you experience no Input Lag. Supposedly Input Lag only happens when the TV needs to upscale, downscale, rescale the source input to match the screens output. This obviously would apply for ANY analog signal going into the TV, it would experience lag as well, cause it is getting converted as well.

Anyway, is any of this true ? Cause if so, then the ONLY time we need to worry about Input Lag is when we are playing our Old School games (pre digital output, pre HD consoles).

So even when your going digital to digital, 1920x1080 to 1920x1080 there is Input Lag ? My point to this question is, if going into your TV that way, there is nothing that needs to be upscaled. Processing should be done on a screen level, not a incoming signal level and should be miniscule at that. So possibly there is no input lag if going into your TV digital to digital, 1920x1080 to 1920x1080 ?

Got'cha. Thanks for this clarification. Yea, I started a thread of my own on this, but a little more focused and less general. I seemed to learn over there what you are saying now. BUT then spread the question to asking/thinking, there has to be at least LESS lag if your signal is not getting upscaled or converted. Then also that spread into, how much lag does each "stage" / "process" in a TV path cause independently ?, to then equal the total lag for your particular settings and path at that particular time, etc...

Ha !! Buying a TV has seriously caused me more stress and thinking and time than when I bought my last car !! And house for that matter !! WTF ? It shouldn't be this hard or difficult.

UPDATE:

So the Magnolia / Best Buy here in S.F. didn't have the Sony XBR950 series in yet when I first called (last week). Since I have narrowed my choices down to either a Plasma Panasonic VT50 series OR a LEDLCD Sony XBR950 series, I feel they both MUST be on display if I am going to take this seriously enough to bring all my testing stuff there and do a shoot-out between the two.

Anyway, got a call today from the salesman I will be dealing with there, that the Sony XBR950 JUST came in, and they will be setting it up today. In turn, Thursday I have scheduled to go there for this shoot-out. So I will keep you all posted.

Thanks again for the help everyone has given me in this thread :-)