Official Epson Home Cinema 3020 Thread - Page 7

Take them off BOTH SIDES. It's to protect the lens in shipping.

iMIKE THEATRE

Steve, those tabs are "handles" that allow you to take off the protective screens covering the lenses. I just finished watching Amazing Spider-man; no ghosting, no headaches, no flicker noticed. On the other hand, the 3D effect in the movie was pretty muted. I had to keep peering over the glasses to see if 3D was even on. It was best toward the end with the climatic battle with The Lizard. I'll have to try Drive Angry soon. That film is just WOW with 3D effects.

I can't figure out how to adjust blue and green convergence in the LCD alignment menu. It defaults to adjusting red but I can't figure out how to switch it to the other two?

Hi guys. I’ve had my Epson 3020 for a week now and I can say that other than the red looking a bit wash-out everything else about this projector is quite impressive (considering the price of course). This projector replaced my Mitsubishi HC3000 Dlp 720P which 6 years ago cost a nice $2500 at BestBuy. I also own a Mitsubishi WD-65835 dlp rear projection TV, which by the way has an incredible picture that in my opinion rivals much more expensive lcd sets ranging in the 5 to 7k US $.
Now my question is this. I know I’m comparing oranges and apples when comparing DLP and LCD projectors as well as TV. But there surely has to be a way to improve the “yellow-y” look of the red on the Epson 3020. On both, my Mitsubishi projector and front projector TV the red in particular is phenomenal. For me this is a major disappointment since like my Red to be rich and dark. I’m using ‘Soloforce’s” suggested settings under Living room and look pretty good, as well as the settings provided by “theprojectorreviews.com” but the red is still far from desirable. By the way I’m using a 100” Visual Apex semi-white fiberglass electric screen.

Any suggestions on how I can improve the red would be greatly appreciated.

My setup is:
Playstation3
Yamaha 5.1 sound system
100" visualapax semi-while electric screen
Epson 3020 Projector connected with a 35' 1.4 HDMI

What mode are you in? Or is it in all?

Over at projector central, they adjusted Cinema mode RGB to:

Offset
Red -1
Green 1
Blue -1

Gain
Red 0
Green 0
Blue -2

thanks for the reply. I switch between Living Room and Cinema where the lighting is totally controlled, and during the day where there is minimal light i like to use Living Room mode.

In Cinema mode i have the following:

Cinema

Offset R = -7
G = 1
B = 9

Gain R = 3
G = -2
B = -1

Color Saturation: -5
Tint: 0
Gamma: 2.4

Living room mode i'm using "Soloforce's" numbers.


I'v also used your suggested settings to no avail. I understand that Epson 'lacks' good red, but even so i'm sure it can be improved. I was wondering if anyone else has noticed the deficiency in Red on this projector.

Here are the remarks from the tech himself taken from "projectorreviews.com"

The color gamut is very good by default in Cinema mode, with only Red being off the mark. Green, in particular, is probably the most accurate we’ve seen in an Epson projector. Cyan, in particular, couldn’t be more accurate. Yellow and magenta are slightly off, but are easily improved with the CMS. The deficiency in red is something that’s limited by the projector and so the CMS can’t fix it completely. Trying to move red to its data point causes luminance to suffer, so you’re stuck with slightly orangy reds. Even so, with normal viewing, the colors looked good. There does seem to be a little too much red in skin tones, but if this bothers you, you can always turn the main Color control down.
Edited by mano33 - 12/11/12 at 1:12pm

I knew I read about red somewhere but didn't see it when I read through it again. Sounds like it's inherent, although I don't think this red looks too orange. This is a pic from a USB drive using the 3020's slideshow.

Those that chose the 3020 over the 5020, any regrets?

Well, I've never directly compared the two so I couldn't say that I regret getting the 3020. Right now, I have no complaints about the picture and my room allowed me to set it up correctly without the need for lens shift. If a lens shift, CFI (I do regret that the CFI doesn't have that), an increase in contrast from 40,000/1 to 320,000/1, and 100 more lumen is worth an extra $1000 to someone, then someone might have regrets going with a 3020. As projector central put it:

"What does the extra $1000 buy you (both come with 2 pair of 3D glasses), when comparing the Home Cinema 5020 with the Home Cinema 3020?

First and foremost, you are getting a higher performance projector in terms of picture quality. The HC5020's black level performance is not only far superior, but it's also better than anything near its price (above or below). Even if you were to turn off the Epson HC5020UB's dynamic iris and leave the dynamic iris on with the 3020, the 5020 would still produce the blacker blacks. Of course that's all expected since UB stands for Ultra Black.

The HC5020 UB lacks the more portable friendly Home Cinema 3020 projector's pair of 10 watt speakers, but adds a good deal more placement flexibility thanks to variable lens shift and a zoom lens with more range. 2.1:1 vs. 1.6:1 Neither projector is particularly quiet in terms of audible noise. Both have the same excellent warranty. And same long lamp life.

The Home Cinema 5020 has dynamic features the HC3010 lacks. While the more expensive 5020 has full CFI for smooth motion, the Epson 3010 offers only the more basic FI - simple frame doubling. Both offer Super-Resolution this year.

If you aren't a home theater fanatic, don't demand those really dark blacks, and just want a great projector for the family, with good color and a good feature set, go with the Home Cinema 3020. If you have the budget, tend to be "into" the equipment - an enthusiast, then it's rather easy to rationalize the extra expense. As I basically said above, comparing the 5020 to the Sony: Both offer similar price/performance - with the HC5020 projector, you will be getting your money's worth. You only need to decide what it is about the 5020 that you want, that makes you spend the difference. "

It looks pretty good. I'm going to try the picture settings that you have, also turn the Iris On. And see if there are any improvements. What picture mode are you In?

Me? Living Room or Cinema mostly. Have decided on one yet. I've only had it 3 days so still learnin'.

Pulled the trigger, PJ will be here on Friday

QUESTION: Does the 3020 have 5 mounting holes on the bottom? It looks like it from the manual, which means I can use a mount with three arms. A quick reply would be great, I need to order for next day delivery to get here the same day as the projector

FYI, I'm leaning towards the:
Peerless PRGUNV Precision Gear Universal Projector Mount (http://www.amazon.com/Peerless-PRGUNV-Precision-Universal-Projector/dp/B000TXNS6G/ref=pd_bxgy_e_text_y)
with the Peerless PWA-14 Wall Arm (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009IRN4O/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_d0_i3?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1NJWGJ19RH1EFPY31PXJ&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1389517282&pf_rd_i=507846)

it's five. Let us know what you think of it!

I also switch between Cinema and Living room. I watched Prometheus in 3d the other day in cinema mode. It was flawless. I have seen a lot of 3d movies on many different displays and I can honestly say this is the best so far. I also watched the Giants game last Sunday and it felt asif I'm watching it from a window within the stadium.

I threw on Jaws for a bit last night. Remember the scene where the yahoos are hoisting the Tiger shark on the dock? I'm not seeing the orangy-reds you see. When they pry open the shark's mouth, the blood is a bright red.

Also found out that when I power on the PJ it turns on my Sony blu-ray player and switches my Sony AVR to the (wrong) input. I'll have to read up on the HTML link section of the manual.

Also had to get a 1x2 HTML switch so I can run the TV and PJ off of 1 TV out on the AVR. It works, but can't have both plugged into the switch at the same time. The manual for the switch mentions that this will happen sometimes. Not a huge deal, just have to plug in the PJ manually to the switch when needed.

Hello everyone! I currently own a viewsonic pro8200 and I've found out the hard way that at least with the 8200 I need lens shift. I'm wondering if that would be the case with the 3020 as well? I know that this PJ does not have LS but I was curious. Currently I'm projecting on to a 150" cinewhite 1.1 gain screen. I have 9ft ceilings. The PJ is positioned 19ft back. My issue is the hot spotting and keystoning I'm having to do (+8). Also, the PJ is mounted just a little above screen and the PJ can't go any higher and I REALLY don't want to move the screen. Any thoughts.....

It's funny you mentioned the projector remote also controls your blue ray player. I noticed that in addition to turning on and off my playstation3 it also controls playback-pause and stop and fast forward and rewind. Which for me works out perfect. I don't need to get an additional remote for the playstation. Something I had planned on doing.

As far as the Red is concerned. Not all the reds have an orange hue to it. I think the intensity of the Red being displayed changes withe the type or source and content being shown. It is something I'm going to have to live with.

What type of screen are you using? Mine is e semi-white fiberglass.
Edited by mano33 - 12/13/12 at 12:36pm

the Epson 3020 does not have lens shift. I got my projector through VisualApex through a special package promotion. It came with a ceiling mount. I may be few inches off center but the mount can be turned from side to side as well us up and down.

How ever that being said eventhough mine is almost dead center with the screen i did notice that the picture is not a 'perfect' Rectangle. It is slightly off at the bottom right corner. The picture does not align with the 90 Degree corner with the black borders. It falls short an inch or so.

Generally key-stone should be avoided at all costs. I tried using keystone -8 on the horizontal and noticed a notable difference in the picture while calibrating with WoW disk that came with the projector. Try to avoid using key-stone.
Edited by mano33 - 12/13/12 at 12:46pm

Give Epson's distance calculator a try. I used it and determined I didn't need keystoning.
Edited by ngwest36 - 12/13/12 at 3:49pm

I wonder, though, if keystone is the big Sasquatch all the v'philes say it is. Projector Reviews said:
"Lens Shift

The Epson Home Cinema 3020 lacks adjustable lens shift. You'll want to get the vertical placement right, so that you don't have to use keystone correction to keep the image rectangular. Keystone correction adds a small amount of distortion/softness to the image.

"How bad is using keystone correction," you ask? I have an easy way to describe that for existing projector owners: Any softness caused by using keystone correction, is going to take away less from picture quality, than the inherent high compression being used on satellite and cable transmissions. So, while we cringe at the thought of using keystone correction, it's not going to do something drastic, like make a 1080p image seem as soft as a 720p one in terms of sharpness. A movie scene from a Blu-ray disc, with keystone correction in use, is still going to be visibly better picture quality than the same scene coming off my DirecTV, with no keystone correction engaged, and all else being equal.

On Blu-ray disc, you should be able to see a slight difference between keystone on, and off. It will be harder to see on lower quality sources. "

Like black levels, and color accuracy, etc., if our eyes don't care, does it matter if a scientific measuring machine or theoretical calculation says this PJ is better that that PJ? Reminds me of the arguments I read over active/passive 3D.

That being said, I really don't understand lens shift anyway. I know what it is, but don't really know how to calculate it before getting the PJ. The calculators said my distance should be ok (7'9" ceiling, 10' from screen) so I left it at that.

I got this one from BB. The only thing I could find out about it is that it's matte white, 1:1 gain.

I agree with you. The difference between applying keystone vs no keystone at all is most of the time not noticeable to the naked eye, not for most people anyway. I noticed the difference while calibrating the picture with the WoW disk. I had the horizontal key stone at -8 while adjusting brightness and contrast, I noticed some artifacts on the geometric figures displayed on the screen by the disk. I do agree with you as far as it (keystone) not making a drastic difference in the overall picture. Even though i am very particular about image quality in particular color and contrast I'm also not going to look through a magnifying glass. As in this case there will always be something that needs improvement. The 3020 from my experience is as good as it gets right out of the box. For most people the factory settings with be adequate.

I'm thinking about duplicating some of the screenshots over in the screenshot thread and see how the 3020 compares...
Edited by ngwest36 - 12/14/12 at 9:17am

How do you guys find this projector to be for gaming?

I'm considering the TW5910 (I believe it's not available in the US, but should be pretty similar to 3020) - but I'd like to use it for a bit of gaming, but I'm thinking about how the input lag is. I'm not going to play super competitive online stuff or anything, just some regular gaming

In response to this message as well as the 'other' one, I have had Mitsubishi HC3000 for 6 years now. For one, the HC3000 as you probably now is a great projector. The black levels, contrast as well as color accuracy are very good. But you also have to keep in mind that when HC 3000 came out it cost 1000 US $ more than the Epson 3020. I think it was second best that Mitsubishi had to offer at the time. HC4000 was the higher up model. The brightness on the 3020 is phenomenal. As far as gaming goes i played some first person shooter games on the HC3000 and was quite happy with the way it worked except of course that it lacked the higher definition (1080p) and no 3d. I have not played any games on the 3020 yet. However i have read 'every' expert and consumer review on the projector and the general consensus is that it can handle game playing just fine. Especially if you put it on Fast.

Epson 3020 is a great projector. It has a beautiful picture, very nice colors. It is bright and the 3d is very very good. I have one tiny little complaint about the 3020 though. I'm not happy with the Red. If you own a Mitsubishi HC3000 you will most definitely see the difference. No matter how many adjustments you make.

Bottom line, if you are out for a bright, 1080p, with beautiful colors, play games once in a while, like to watch beautiful 3d movies on a large screen for only 1400-1600 US $ this is the projector for you.

Here is what i found at http://www.projectorcentral.com/epson_3020e_home_video_projector_review.htm?page=Limitations "Input lag. The Home Cinema 3010, the 3020e's predecessor, had pretty severe input lag in the range of 100 milliseconds or 6 frames. After extensive testing of the 3020e, we can say that input lag has improved, but still won't be fast enough for many gamers.

We tested input lag on the 3020e in several modes. All of our tests used HDMI as the input, and all used native-resolution 1080p signals as the source. Typically projectors are fastest at processing signals that do not need to be scaled up or down to match the projector's native resolution.

Our first test was of Dynamic mode, which measured 84 milliseconds of delay, or five frames. This is faster by one frame than last year's model. The next test was Cinema mode, which measured the same exact delay of 84ms. What this indicates is that Cinema mode is not applying any additional processing that slows the image down, so you can safely use it for gaming without adding additional lag.

The last test used Cinema mode, but this time we went to the Signal menu and switched "Image Processing" from "Fine" to "Fast." This reduced input lag to 67 milliseconds, or four frames. If you do intend to do any gaming on the 3020e, we definitely recommend engaging Fast processing".


Hope this helps...

P.s i have also heard that BenQ7000 is aslo a very good projector that's under $2000. Not sure if it is 3d though. It is supposed to have very good black levels. You might want to have a look at that one as well.
Edited by mano33 - 12/14/12 at 3:01pm

that's a great idea actually. I just bought Star Wars all three episodes in blue ray. I'll take some pictures with me GS3 phone and i'll post here.

OK. Made a couple of comparison shots from Ironman. These two were posted over on the "screenshot wars" thread and made with "Mits HC3800 on a very basic DIY screen. Low bulb mode and Cinema gamma. Sometimes I wish the shadow detail was better, but I've never had it calibrated, or really messed with any of the calibration settings myself."




Now, here are the same shots taken on my 3020; Cinema, contrast -7, autoiris high. The Sony cyberShot DSC-TX100v 16.2 megapixel camera oversaturated the color so I backed it down -3 . Great example of how bright the 3020 is!

Thanks a lot for your detailed reply

I have been seeing some mixed opinions about the gaming capabilities (like here http://www.projectorreviews.com/projector-pc-gaming-blog/epson-home-cinema-3020e-projector-lag-test.html where they don't seem to like it so much) - but hopefully it would be alright for my gaming needs

When you say it's bright, do you think it's significantly brighter than your HC3000? I found this one to be really bright actually (even in low mode), so I lowered some settings a bit more than I wanted to (rainbows started to bother me with too much light and contrast) - the Epson of course doesn't have rainbows, but I'd sometimes be using it with no ambient light (at other times I may have a faint ambient light in the room near the seating area) - though I do have some white walls and white ceiling (I will probably paint my walls or set up some curtains though - but not the ceiling) - so I'm a thinking if the Epson 3020 will have too much light and poor blacks in these conditions, also considering my screen is in the smaller end with 92"?

As an alternative I have been considering the 2D only Epson TW3200 - which got lower light output - did you consider this projector too when buying your 3020? I currently don't own a 3D blu-ray player or any 3D movies, so I don't know how much I will be using 3D (though I will definitely try it if I get a 3D projector), but it would be nice to have the option - I'm thinking it could be cool to play games in 3D, but I haven't actually tried it

I did not consider the TW3200. I was looking for a 1080p projector with 3d capability. If you don't care about 3d then you should get more projector for your money. How ever if you are on the fence about 3d and want to try it. If you get the 3020 you will probably love it. 3d was made for projectors. I have a Mitsubishi 65 inch dlp rear projection TV and thought that this was the best 3d i had ever seen, even better than the movie theaters. Well that was before i got the 3020. The 3d quality is the same the bigger difference is the 100" diagonal image vs the 65" on the TV. Let me tell you that watching a 100" screen from 10'-12' is awesome. Particularly in 3d.

the 3020 is brighter than the HC3000. Without a doubt. I have mine in a room where lighting is completely controlled. I keep it mostly on Cinema. I have not even considered Dynamic mode, in this mode i would surely need to wear sunglasses:D. That's how bright the 3020 is. . I feel that it is better to have more, than less or not enough. In the former case You always have the option of lowering the brightness to your liking without affecting the picture. Also keep in mind that as the projector ages the brightness level will keep dimming as well.



P.s This weekend i will try to play a couple of games. Just to test them out. Call of duty (the latest one). Dishonored and Assassin's Creed. I'll let you know what i think. I played Call of duty on my 65 in Mitsubishi 3d TV. First person shooters are made for 3d. It is a different game when played in 3d. The sight glass on the riffle is right up your nose. Imagine that one 92 or 100" screen?
Edited by mano33 - 12/15/12 at 8:20am